JamesKPolk wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:BRIGGS wrote:GS offered Lee for Bargs and they took the Knicks deal--we couldve had chocie of taking David Lee I would have to assume
Really? I wonder what the hold up was.
The hold up is he is an awful defender with a worse contract.
If it was 2 years I would do it in a second. I dont want 12 million on are 2015-16 cap
Jmpasq wrote:If it was 2 years I would do it in a second. I dont want 12 million on are 2015-16 cap
That's what Toronto said. 
i too think this is panic trade,
as far as panic trades go, this one will hit the spot,
bargs fills a lot of needs for us and gives us a totally new scoring dimension,
7 foot long-ball guy that was always asked to be the big kahuna (picked 1 overall) and he crumbled under this pressure,
now he is going to be third in the scoring pecking order (if jr resigned), which will give him more freedom and less stress so that he will thrive,
Knicks turn Novak and Camby into a skilled underachieving big and dudes still complaining.
Camby and Novak were glued tot he bench. At least Bargnani will actually get solid rotation minutes.
The Warriors were offering David Lee in Exchange for Bargnani.
I don't think Camby and Novac was enough without the pick.
Its a "now" type move which is what this team is about.
Bargs fills the need for the "community" type player and the void left by Gallo.
Seriously, if this kid can get reasonably healthy you have to ask has he ever been on the floor with players like Melo and Amare?
Has he ever been 3rd option?
One has to be excited about the "Ifs"
If Stat can stay on the floor, if Chandler gets a flu shot, if there is enough "honey nut cheerios" in NY? and if Bargs can fulfill a portion of his potential! Ujuri is using the templete he had in Denver and develop players while collecting assets.
Jmpasq wrote:We can find a better player for those 3 picks. It might not be right now but those 3 can be put to better use. Amares expiring contract next season with those 3 might get us something decent back.I dont understand the rush to make trades that dont make us any better
I dont understand how you can say this doesnt make us better. Knicks failed in the playoffs because they couldnt stretch the defense. Kidd and JR went cold and had nothing. Novak couldnt get on the floor because he cant do anything but shoot a J with his feet set. Bargs would have been great. He can really score in a variety of ways.
As a former #1 obviously hes a bust, but as 2nd or 3rd option he's good and he creates space and can handle the ball a little. The downside of this trade is we waste a mid first rounder on a gamble. The upside is he thrives in a lesser role on a team thats not losing every night. He's a very talented player, especially scoring.
Im not a big fan of his but you have to see there is talent and upside.
Also his contract expires when Tyson, Melo, Stat expire so in 2 two years we can blow this thing up and start totally clean if needed.
Jmpasq wrote:This trade wouldnt be so bad if it actually made us contenders but it barely makes the team better. Who gives up 3 picks to still be a 5th seed.When I 1st read this deal Toronto was giving up 2 picks how did it turn into 3.I thought maybe he was trying to rush it to save are non guaranteed deals. Someone over at MSG has to have some common sense and walk away for once
I don't see us in a position 2 walk away. We've seen bargs play great. Key is consistent efficient Would u rather go into next season w bargs or camby/Novak? Not going to cry about 2 nf round picks right now. Being a knicks fan. Even going way back before Dolan. I'm used to the draft pick scenario. Spurs don't do it. But we do
I wouldnt mind giving away the draft picks, given how the knicks always find a diamond in the rough
2011: shawne williams
2012: Jeremy Lin
2013: Chris Copeland/Prigioni
All these guys played really well when no expected them to do so. Copeland and Prigioni were in the running to make all rookie teams.
I have full trust in Glens European scout to find us another one.
this guy's numbers are just awful. poor rebounder, poor passer, inefficient scorer, lousy defender.
this is yet another lateral move and doesn't improve the team at all.
subtraction by subtraction
Couple things I've seen thrown around here in the UK.
1)The trade for Bargnani involves 3 picks. A first and 2 2nd rounders.
2)Bargnani runs through 2015-2016, hindering our 2015 free agency.
For the 1st one, I thought I read it was only the 2016 pick (that Denver can swap)? Never read about any second rounders. Guessing we'd competitive still in 2016, or in the case we sucked, Denver would own the pick, no?
For the 2nd, I'm pretty sure Bargnani expires the same as our core in 2015, and is a valuable expiring contract(along with Amare's) next season for the big free agency summer of 2015. What's the big deal with possibly upgrading our core for the next 2 seasons?
I'm confused to the amount of negativity this trade has generated, seems like low risk, high reward slightly lateral move since Camby and Novak are essentially useless. Are people really crying over the 2016 pick? Are we going to be in the lottery or something and I don't know it yet?
Hersports85 wrote:Call me optimistic ... but I think Bargnani does really well here. Sometimes being a part of a losing organization can have an effect on your play. Only thing i hate about this deal is the draft picks. we need to work that out.
Another plus is that his contract is shorter and we are getting younger. Really can't complain too much.
Maybe he pulled a bit of a Vince Carter?
Those injuries really stifled his progress though. He was amounting to something and then bamm...
ChuckBuck wrote:Couple things I've seen thrown around here in the UK.1)The trade for Bargnani involves 3 picks. A first and 2 2nd rounders.
2)Bargnani runs through 2015-2016, hindering our 2015 free agency.
For the 1st one, I thought I read it was only the 2016 pick (that Denver can swap)? Never read about any second rounders. Guessing we'd competitive still in 2016, or in the case we sucked, Denver would own the pick, no?
For the 2nd, I'm pretty sure Bargnani expires the same as our core in 2015, and is a valuable expiring contract(along with Amare's) next season for the big free agency summer of 2015. What's the big deal with possibly upgrading our core for the next 2 seasons?
I'm confused to the amount of negativity this trade has generated, seems like low risk, high reward slightly lateral move since Camby and Novak are essentially useless. Are people really crying over the 2016 pick? Are we going to be in the lottery or something and I don't know it yet?
worst case is we shed Novak's deal early. Upside is we get a very talented guy who been inconsistant and banged up on a team nobody wants to play on
one thing not mentioned is that bargs plays well against bosh + miami, he plays well against noah + chicago and he plays well against hibbert + indy.
he will help in those potential post season scenarios.
djsunyc wrote:one thing not mentioned is that bargs plays well against bosh + miami, he plays well against noah + chicago and he plays well against hibbert + indy.he will help in those potential post season scenarios.
That's what I've been thinking this whole time. This guy will pull guys like Noah and Hibbert out to the 3 point line. Way out of defensive coverage and rebounding range.
Didn't we average like 80 something points in the playoffs? Doesn't this solve these problems?
the big this is that you HAVE to utilize him. he needs to be a focus point on the offense. if he doesn't have a defined role there, then he will disappear into the background. your disgusting team should really employ a pick and pop with the pg and bargs up top and also utilize him in the post - and force him to go there. his post game is very good but he will only do it if the coach forces him to post up. he will not do it on his own for a good stretch of the game.
his elbow jumper is automatic. his post hook and little lane runner is very good. he's an ok 3 pt shooter - definitely not automatic from there. he is a very willing and somewhat underrated passer.
but he needs to be involved in the offense consistently. and he needs to play about 30 mins a night. no more b/c his effort level will drop and he will get hurt over the long haul...
SO does Bargs go to camp Hakeem this summer?
This is a good move if Bargs can stay healthy..He is versatile enough to compliment Melo offensively...Whats good for him is that there aren't huge expectations on him here..He can settle into being the 2nd or 3rd option in the offense..I hope he see this as a challenge and come to camp in shape...I hope the Knicks aren't done yet..We still need a second option to Melo..
This is a good trade assuming Knicks give up the 2016 1st rd pick. No more starting games in a 15pt hole as the team stands around as Melo goes 1on5 because no one can shoot the ball consistently. He spaces the floor for Melo and hopefully will develop some chemistry with the PG. This is the upside
Potential downside is his defense and rebounding is so awful Woodson Burt's him on the bench like he did with Novak and Amare at times. Not worried about the nagging injuries only knee, feet and back.
With that said Knicks finish 5th or lower and exit in the 1st rd possibly 2nd rd again.
Unless we upgrade at starting pg with a pg who is an efficient shooter, speed and most important of all COURT VISION which Felton has never had
Another positive is we can finally blow this up and rebuild the right way after 2015. Not trade every asset and sign guys for $20mil per. But as has been proven time and time again the Knicks just don't operate without the clumsiness under Jimmy Beam
fishmike wrote:Jmpasq wrote:We can find a better player for those 3 picks. It might not be right now but those 3 can be put to better use. Amares expiring contract next season with those 3 might get us something decent back.I dont understand the rush to make trades that dont make us any better
I dont understand how you can say this doesnt make us better. Knicks failed in the playoffs because they couldnt stretch the defense. Kidd and JR went cold and had nothing. Novak couldnt get on the floor because he cant do anything but shoot a J with his feet set. Bargs would have been great. He can really score in a variety of ways.As a former #1 obviously hes a bust, but as 2nd or 3rd option he's good and he creates space and can handle the ball a little. The downside of this trade is we waste a mid first rounder on a gamble. The upside is he thrives in a lesser role on a team thats not losing every night. He's a very talented player, especially scoring.
Im not a big fan of his but you have to see there is talent and upside.
Also his contract expires when Tyson, Melo, Stat expire so in 2 two years we can blow this thing up and start totally clean if needed.
But do we really want a below league average 3pt shooter stretching the floor? Bargnani hasn't shot 35% from 3 since 2010, and his 3P% last year was an ugly 30.9%!. One can only hope the change of scenery will motivate him to find his stroke, because you don't want a guy like this as your go-to perimeter option. Honestly I do not see this as an improvement over Copeland at all, just 8 million dollars more expensive.
BRIGGS wrote:GS offered Lee for Bargs and they took the Knicks deal--we couldve had chocie of taking David Lee I would have to assume
If we could've gotten Lee, then we should have...
