Knicks · with Bargs/Novak/Camby trade, Knicks just set themselves up for 2015 just like Heat in 2010. (page 2)

MS wrote:The Knicks aren't setting themselves up for anything. We tried this already and then made panic moves and locked the team into a mediocre squad after losing for 10 years and rebuilding for three. As long as Dolan is in charge the knicks are what they are second class, petty and team that will never go anywhere.

If they had a plan they wouldn't have given long term deals out to Kidd Novak and Camby in the offseason.

The Knicks didn't do it right and were always behind the curve, plus you gotta factor in Heat collusion.

You can't deny that the Knicks have set themselves up for 2 years from now, no way around that.

holfresh wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:I am a big proponent of matching the duration and age of your assets. Knicks achieved this. I like this. The only problem is that we were similarly set up in 2010 and had to take a huge chance on Amar'e. It's a double-edged sword. All that said, I do think it is worth the risk.

Don't worry ..Donnie and MDA are long gone...

You must have been reading my mind. I expect good things going forward

martin wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:We should move Felton ASAP. He is going to be useless in 2016 and only eating up our cap

Still can't believe Grunwald gave him a 4th yr when no one wanted him

Felton at $3M+ is a steal.

Then moving him should be to our benefit....."Vanglroious" if we're duping the Heat's Blueprint. Why stop now with moving dead salary?

Wait a second didn't Walsh dump Jeffries/Jordan Hill/2011 1st(swap)/2012 1st, so we could sign 2 Max Cats in 2010? We were trying to follow the Celtics "Formidable" Blueprint correct

MS wrote:The Knicks aren't setting themselves up for anything. We tried this already and then made panic moves and locked the team into a mediocre squad after losing for 10 years and rebuilding for three. As long as Dolan is in charge the knicks are what they are second class, petty and team that will never go anywhere.

If they had a plan they wouldn't have given long term deals out to Kidd Novak and Camby in the offseason.

My gut feeling says you are right but let's wait and see what our next move is. We will know soon enough once we give up more assets and take some long term contracts back when we upgrade PG and possibly Center or when we trade Amare's expiring contract for a worse longer contract. It's the Dolan way

Vmart wrote:Let's be real Miami set themselves up for 2010 on draft night. It was the Knicks that started the prep for 2010 a year before 2010. What took the Knicks a year of trades and moves Miami did it basically in a week.

If memory serves me correct didn't Lebron/Wade/Bosh set the Heat up in 2010 back in the 2008 Olympics... or am I missing something.

3G4G wrote:$3.75mil wasn't going to hamper us from doing what we want, targeting that year....but yes in a way it helps. Not like his salary couldn't have been moved from now til then and probably cost us less or got us something back in return like a 2nd round pick.

Our problems will be filling out the roster regardless of cap space, because we don't have assets(picks) not even 2nd rounders...so the Max cats will eat up the space quickly and we'll barely be able to put out a starting 5.

Also you listed guys who'll be 28-31yrs(wear and tear) old by 2015 unlike the Heat who got 25/26yr old guys. Also the Heat had multiple first round and 2nd round picks to execute S&T's. What do we pay Shump btw prior too, he's going to want an extension signed by Oct 2014? What about Melo does he get an extension from us?

exactly

i guess we'll really find out if this is the plan by what we do with the mini-mle? if we sign a guy to a 4yr deal, this might just be a pipe-dream.

ChuckBuck wrote:

MS wrote:The Knicks aren't setting themselves up for anything. We tried this already and then made panic moves and locked the team into a mediocre squad after losing for 10 years and rebuilding for three. As long as Dolan is in charge the knicks are what they are second class, petty and team that will never go anywhere.

If they had a plan they wouldn't have given long term deals out to Kidd Novak and Camby in the offseason.

That last line literally made no sense whatsoever.

They just evacuated all 3 deals, what are you bitching about again?

But we potentially gave up 3 picks to rid ourselves of those horrid contracts and that's not even counting kidd's who fortunately retired but still counts against our cap. Anyone know what is the cap hold on Kidd after the buyout?

3G4G wrote:

martin wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:We should move Felton ASAP. He is going to be useless in 2016 and only eating up our cap

Still can't believe Grunwald gave him a 4th yr when no one wanted him

Felton at $3M+ is a steal.

Then moving him should be to our benefit....."Vanglroious" if we're duping the Heat's Blueprint. Why stop now with moving dead salary?

Wait a second didn't Walsh dump Jeffries/Jordan Hill/2011 1st(swap)/2012 1st, so we could sign 2 Max Cats in 2010? We were trying to follow the Celtics "Formidable" Blueprint correct

dude, seriously, I think you are just posting to be annoying at this point. Felton has a player option in 2 years and the Knicks don't have any PGs on their roster right now, so they are keeping for now and maybe he opts in at $4M in 2015 and maybe he doesn't. Either way it doesn't hurt anything and would be a plus off the bench backing up someone like Rondo.

Who could it be? When is Durant free? he didn't sign up with Jay-Z so he can stay in OKC?

Two years is a long way off to project who will be available, healthy and viable!

But its fun to speculate!

gunsnewing wrote:

MS wrote:The Knicks aren't setting themselves up for anything. We tried this already and then made panic moves and locked the team into a mediocre squad after losing for 10 years and rebuilding for three. As long as Dolan is in charge the knicks are what they are second class, petty and team that will never go anywhere.

If they had a plan they wouldn't have given long term deals out to Kidd Novak and Camby in the offseason.

My gut feeling says you are right but let's wait and see what our next move is. We will know soon enough once we give up more assets and take some long term contracts back when we upgrade PG and possibly Center or when we trade Amare's expiring contract for a worse longer contract. It's the Dolan way

You do know one of the first free agents this front office contacted was Monta Ellis(I don't have major issues with Ellis the player besides shot selection and effort at times) as he is/was productive when looking at salary...but he turned down 3yrs $36mil ext from the Bucks.

What clue does this give you as to what we're looking at going forward?

martin wrote:

MS wrote:The Knicks aren't setting themselves up for anything. We tried this already and then made panic moves and locked the team into a mediocre squad after losing for 10 years and rebuilding for three. As long as Dolan is in charge the knicks are what they are second class, petty and team that will never go anywhere.

If they had a plan they wouldn't have given long term deals out to Kidd Novak and Camby in the offseason.

The Knicks didn't do it right and were always behind the curve, plus you gotta factor in Heat collusion.

You can't deny that the Knicks have set themselves up for 2 years from now, no way around that.

The collusion was the biggest factor in this. This is probably why I dislike team cahoots.

gunsnewing wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

MS wrote:The Knicks aren't setting themselves up for anything. We tried this already and then made panic moves and locked the team into a mediocre squad after losing for 10 years and rebuilding for three. As long as Dolan is in charge the knicks are what they are second class, petty and team that will never go anywhere.

If they had a plan they wouldn't have given long term deals out to Kidd Novak and Camby in the offseason.

That last line literally made no sense whatsoever.

They just evacuated all 3 deals, what are you bitching about again?

But we potentially gave up 3 picks to rid ourselves of those horrid contracts and that's not even counting kidd's who fortunately retired but still counts against our cap. Anyone know what is the cap hold on Kidd after the buyout?

What 3 picks are cats talking about again???

ESPN, NBA.com, and Howard Beck all say 1 draft pick(2016 1st rd swappable with Denver). Only hold up to the deal was adding another salary for Sign and Trade(looks like it's Q Rich).

Again Bargnani deal ends same time as Melo/Stat/Chandler so the Knicks will be a prime destination for players like Aldridge, Love, and Irving.

Don't know if there is any downside to this deal, seems like fans making excuses just to make excuses. Doesn't damage us in the short term, doesn't damage us in the long term.

3G4G wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

MS wrote:The Knicks aren't setting themselves up for anything. We tried this already and then made panic moves and locked the team into a mediocre squad after losing for 10 years and rebuilding for three. As long as Dolan is in charge the knicks are what they are second class, petty and team that will never go anywhere.

If they had a plan they wouldn't have given long term deals out to Kidd Novak and Camby in the offseason.

My gut feeling says you are right but let's wait and see what our next move is. We will know soon enough once we give up more assets and take some long term contracts back when we upgrade PG and possibly Center or when we trade Amare's expiring contract for a worse longer contract. It's the Dolan way

You do know one of the first free agents this front office contacted was Monta Ellis(I don't have major issues with Ellis the player besides shot selection and effort at times) as he is/was productive when looking at salary...but he turned down 3yrs $36mil ext from the Bucks.

What clue does this give you as to what we're looking at going forward?

So what... all we could offer this guys is minimum salary. What clue or insight did this supposed call give you? Please let me know.

martin wrote:

MS wrote:The Knicks aren't setting themselves up for anything. We tried this already and then made panic moves and locked the team into a mediocre squad after losing for 10 years and rebuilding for three. As long as Dolan is in charge the knicks are what they are second class, petty and team that will never go anywhere.

If they had a plan they wouldn't have given long term deals out to Kidd Novak and Camby in the offseason.

The Knicks didn't do it right and were always behind the curve, plus you gotta factor in Heat collusion.

You can't deny that the Knicks have set themselves up for 2 years from now, no way around that.

set themselves up for what martin.. we have no picks.... If we had a young stud like paul george, or rondo on our team and we were shooting to build around them, then I could understand, and even then, that is a ways out, especially with no picks.... You need picks to make deals, to add talent, etc... we set ourselves up for mediocrity... the only way to save this would be to clean house now and add picks.. offer carmelo up for expiring and picks... offer chandler up for a trash player with a couple of years left and a pick.. heck offer him to the warriors for a first rounder and biendrins who is an expiring... Do not, I repeat do not touch JR smith.... develop shumpert, play amare as much as he can play, fill in the team with some cheap deals and roll from there.. Yet it will be ugly, but this is what happens... at least the knicks will be actually setting themselves up for 2015 with something to work with..

martin wrote:

3G4G wrote:

martin wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:We should move Felton ASAP. He is going to be useless in 2016 and only eating up our cap

Still can't believe Grunwald gave him a 4th yr when no one wanted him

Felton at $3M+ is a steal.

Then moving him should be to our benefit....."Vanglroious" if we're duping the Heat's Blueprint. Why stop now with moving dead salary?

Wait a second didn't Walsh dump Jeffries/Jordan Hill/2011 1st(swap)/2012 1st, so we could sign 2 Max Cats in 2010? We were trying to follow the Celtics "Formidable" Blueprint correct

dude, seriously, I think you are just posting to be annoying at this point. Felton has a player option in 2 years and the Knicks don't have any PGs on their roster right now, so they are keeping for now and maybe he opts in at $4M in 2015 and maybe he doesn't. Either way it doesn't hurt anything and would be a plus off the bench backing up someone like Rondo.

Actually I'm thinking of things like....

Moving Felton for a player in a S&T(assuming we can pull it off under CBA rules) for someone like Collison/Maynor/Bynum on a 3yr deal(possibly cheaper) where we have the TO that year? It would be nice to have some 2nd round picks in hand to wheel and deal in such a feasible scenario.

So yes, let's think of a way to move Felton if 2015 is the target yr

3G4G wrote:

martin wrote:

3G4G wrote:

martin wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:We should move Felton ASAP. He is going to be useless in 2016 and only eating up our cap

Still can't believe Grunwald gave him a 4th yr when no one wanted him

Felton at $3M+ is a steal.

Then moving him should be to our benefit....."Vanglroious" if we're duping the Heat's Blueprint. Why stop now with moving dead salary?

Wait a second didn't Walsh dump Jeffries/Jordan Hill/2011 1st(swap)/2012 1st, so we could sign 2 Max Cats in 2010? We were trying to follow the Celtics "Formidable" Blueprint correct

dude, seriously, I think you are just posting to be annoying at this point. Felton has a player option in 2 years and the Knicks don't have any PGs on their roster right now, so they are keeping for now and maybe he opts in at $4M in 2015 and maybe he doesn't. Either way it doesn't hurt anything and would be a plus off the bench backing up someone like Rondo.

Actually I'm thinking of things like....

Moving Felton for a player in a S&T(assuming we can pull it off under CBA rules) for someone like Collison/Maynor/Bynum on a 3yr deal(possibly cheaper) where we have the TO that year? It would be nice to have some 2nd round picks in hand to wheel and deal in such a feasible scenario.

So yes, let's think of a way to move Felton if 2015 is the target yr

That's silly. No need to trade Felton for those players by 2015 Felton becomes a back up at 3.5 and saves the Knicks from using their mle on a back up pg.

martin wrote:

3G4G wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

MS wrote:The Knicks aren't setting themselves up for anything. We tried this already and then made panic moves and locked the team into a mediocre squad after losing for 10 years and rebuilding for three. As long as Dolan is in charge the knicks are what they are second class, petty and team that will never go anywhere.

If they had a plan they wouldn't have given long term deals out to Kidd Novak and Camby in the offseason.

My gut feeling says you are right but let's wait and see what our next move is. We will know soon enough once we give up more assets and take some long term contracts back when we upgrade PG and possibly Center or when we trade Amare's expiring contract for a worse longer contract. It's the Dolan way

You do know one of the first free agents this front office contacted was Monta Ellis(I don't have major issues with Ellis the player besides shot selection and effort at times) as he is/was productive when looking at salary...but he turned down 3yrs $36mil ext from the Bucks.

What clue does this give you as to what we're looking at going forward?

So what... all we could offer this guys is minimum salary. What clue or insight did this supposed call give you? Please let me know.

If he were to come here he'd get a multi yr offer from us...more salary on the books in 2015. Could it be in S&T fashion possibly Shumpert?

Maybe that's Elli's camp just trying to make their client appear more attractive who knows. Let's scratch him off the list as us not being that serious

Let's move on to Tony Allen, could the interest in him be real? I'd like to think so for a team trying to contend and stay up with Brooklyn/Pacers/Bulls. You think he gets a multi-yr deal bet your bottom dollar.

I have a question where's J.R.'s salary in all of this or are we letting him go in efforts to retain the myriad of assets we've given up S&T

loweyecue wrote:So are we now admitting the current roster is worthless and this is all a master plan for 2015? We went from win now and chest thumping 52 win contenders to 2015 long term project by making one trade with two assets that were ..."worthless"?? Or are we contenders now and planning for 2015 at the same time?

54 win contenders.

This move sets us now(2 gimp power forwards instead of 1, meaning we really really need K-Mart back) as well as the summer 2015.

Yes to both questions you asked.