Knicks · Hahn's Take on the trade (page 1)

New York Knicks

Alan Hahn
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The Andrea Bargnani deal isn't really as bad as you think. In fact, it doesn't deserve your emotion. More:

Sing it with me:

Ain't no angst like Knicks fan angst 'cause Knicks fan angst . . . is actually not necessary on this one.

Before you light the torches and scream "shill!", take a breath and read.

The trade, once it is completed, will send Marcus Camby and Steve Novak, plus a 2016 first round pick, a couple of future second rounders and, to make the math work, a sign-and-trade of a peripheral free agent (Quentin Richardson? Earl Barron?) to the Raptors for Bargnani.

By word count, it appears the Knicks gave up a lot for the oft-injured, oft-maligned former first overall pick. But let's water it down to this: the Knicks traded their 2016 first round pick, which the Nuggets already had the rights to swap (via Melo trade), for Bargnani. And by doing so, they saved close to $4 million in salary cap space for the 2015 free agency period, which will otherwise be known as the Knicks Summer of the Reset Button.

Novak (3 years, $11.3M left) saw his effectiveness-and, subsequently, his minutes-diminish.

Camby is 39 and will be 41 when his deal ends (2 years, $8.6M left). Injuries and conditioning issues hve plagued him.

Bargnani, who the last two seasons has endured injuries, will cost the Knicks $10.75 million this season and, potentially, $11.5 million in 2014-15. I say potentially for two reasons: 1. He has an ETO and, therefore, could opt out to become a free agent (highly unlikely he'd leave $11.5M on the table); 2. He could be a valuable expiring contract to deal next summer.

So we will indulge in the basketball aspect. Bargnani's impact will be in pulling opposing bigs (attn: Roy Hibbert) out of the painted area with his perimeter shooting, which would allow Carmelo and Amar'e to work. However, before we think he could potentially replace Tyson Chandler, we remind you that defense and rebounding are important.

Let's get to why you have angst: the 2016 first round pick. Yes, another first rounder goes out the door. Fans love draft picks. They're your currency of hope. The Nuggets have the right to swap, so even if the Knicks fell into the lottery, it wouldn't be their pick. But even a late first round is better than no first round.

They do have three years to get one back, if they so desire, so it's not worth gritting your teeth and clentching your fists. In fact, this deal isn't worth your emotion because, on the surface, it seems more like a bookkeeping move than anything else.

But the summer has only just begun. Let's see where this leads

VDesai wrote:The point about the Nuggets swap is a good one- this will not be a premium pick

+1. The draft picks argument is really moot. Even if the 2 2nd rounders are included, Knicks have always bought 2nd rders or replenished their bench other ways(Prigs, Cope).

So we will indulge in the basketball aspect. Bargnani's impact will be in pulling opposing bigs (attn: Roy Hibbert) out of the painted area with his perimeter shooting, which would allow Carmelo and Amar'e to work. However, before we think he could potentially replace Tyson Chandler, we remind you that defense and rebounding are important.

And what will happen when hibbert gets the ball on offense?

ChuckBuck wrote:

VDesai wrote:The point about the Nuggets swap is a good one- this will not be a premium pick

+1. The draft picks argument is really moot. Even if the 2 2nd rounders are included, Knicks have always bought 2nd rders or replenished their bench other ways(Prigs, Cope).

re-post that in the other threads because that is what people need to understand. The 1st rounder would be a late pick anyway and picks that late are usually chosen for potential and flame out about as often as they succeed. The 2nd rounders are pretty much redundant for the reasons you mentioned.

CrushAlot wrote:

New York Knicks

Alan Hahn

Let's get to why you have angst: the 2016 first round pick. Yes, another first rounder goes out the door. Fans love draft picks. They're your currency of hope.

+1, Mr. Hahn.
Hope and change. The filthy lucre of choice for the entitlement set.

tkf wrote:

So we will indulge in the basketball aspect. Bargnani's impact will be in pulling opposing bigs (attn: Roy Hibbert) out of the painted area with his perimeter shooting, which would allow Carmelo and Amar'e to work. However, before we think he could potentially replace Tyson Chandler, we remind you that defense and rebounding are important.

And what will happen when hibbert gets the ball on offense?

we have to hope that Tyson goes back to playing like a man. Likely it wouldn't be Hibbert guarding Bargs but, West which could also be a problem on defense. But since defense is also a TEAM concept, it is possible to hide or marginalize his deficiencies (I hope )

Bonn1997 wrote:Yeah but now we have to buy 3 picks just to break even - just to keep up with the other teams in the league.

Did we buy any picks in this past draft? Usually to purchase picks of any value it requires other picks or draft rights to other players.

How many picks have we purchased the past 10yrs? Like what 2?

Love the line "PIcks are the currancy of hope"!!!!!

VDesai wrote:The point about the Nuggets swap is a good one- this will not be a premium pick

Unless both team are bad.

Bonn1997 wrote:Yeah but now we have to buy 3 picks just to break even - just to keep up with the other teams in the league.

It's kind of like handing out a $10 bill for free to a friend because he has promised you that later on he'll let you buy it back for 2 fives.

ChuckBuck wrote:

VDesai wrote:The point about the Nuggets swap is a good one- this will not be a premium pick

+1. The draft picks argument is really moot. Even if the 2 2nd rounders are included, Knicks have always bought 2nd rders or replenished their bench other ways(Prigs, Cope).

Much harder under the new CBA rules -- we didn't even have the $3m to use on draft night. If it was so easy -- why didn't we just do it? This draft's second round was loaded with talent and we need bodies..

DurzoBlint wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

VDesai wrote:The point about the Nuggets swap is a good one- this will not be a premium pick

+1. The draft picks argument is really moot. Even if the 2 2nd rounders are included, Knicks have always bought 2nd rders or replenished their bench other ways(Prigs, Cope).

re-post that in the other threads because that is what people need to understand. The 1st rounder would be a late pick anyway and picks that late are usually chosen for potential and flame out about as often as they succeed. The 2nd rounders are pretty much redundant for the reasons you mentioned.

SO WE CAn just count TH jr as a usless pick,right?

DurzoBlint wrote:

tkf wrote:

So we will indulge in the basketball aspect. Bargnani's impact will be in pulling opposing bigs (attn: Roy Hibbert) out of the painted area with his perimeter shooting, which would allow Carmelo and Amar'e to work. However, before we think he could potentially replace Tyson Chandler, we remind you that defense and rebounding are important.

And what will happen when hibbert gets the ball on offense?

we have to hope that Tyson goes back to playing like a man. Likely it wouldn't be Hibbert guarding Bargs but, West which could also be a problem on defense. But since defense is also a TEAM concept, it is possible to hide or marginalize his deficiencies (I hope )

no, they are saying that bargs can pull hibbert away from the basket.. so chandler won't be on the floor I assume, and if he is, then wouldn't hibbert still be guarding chandler? so what is the advantage again?

Bonn1997 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Yeah but now we have to buy 3 picks just to break even - just to keep up with the other teams in the league.

It's kind of like handing out a $10 bill for free to a friend because he has promised you that later on he'll let you buy it back for 2 fives.

rofl... good one..

knickstorrents wrote:In case you haven't noticed, it ain't that easy to buy 2nd rounders anymore. How many did we get this year?

His trade value can only increase.

BRIGGS wrote:

VDesai wrote:The point about the Nuggets swap is a good one- this will not be a premium pick

Unless both team are bad.

Let's say they're good....I thought getting players like Shumpert and TJ at the pick 24 range is a good thing. Let's say they 2016 draft proves to be hella deep then what?

Rules Of Logic Goes As Follows....

1. When we have pick 21 and pick 24 it's like we have pick 1 in a draft

2. When we trade them away for the dumbest reasons ever because they are off into the future, then they're worth less than the garbage you sit out on the curb every week.