Knicks · found this article great and pretty much spot on. (page 1)

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on...

It highlights the problem the knicks have had and the way we have done business over the years.. good read...

hate to be a downer, but it is hard to find light at the end of the tunnel with this organization and the way we do business...

Stop. That's where you have to stop. Because there are a few realities about that first rounder the Knicks surrendered along with the two second rounders you need to understand in the new, post-apocalyptic CBA.

1. Cheap labor is vital. The new CBA lowered the amount teams are spending on average on contracts. But it also lowered the amount teams can spend on players. These rookie-scale contracts are now more valuable than ever. With the addition of things like the D-League and advances in player development, you have a better chance than ever at signing a player late in the first round or in the second and turning them into productive players. Yes, there are more late first-round picks and second-round picks who disappear from the league never to be heard from again than there are Manu Ginobilis and Chandler Parsons, but those guys are what wind up being huge boons to organizations.

On top of that, it's just the value. At the trade deadline, in a year with a horrible, awful draft, no one would move a first-round pick. That's how much value they have. Picks are lifeblood.

Bottom line is the trade for Bargs makes it possible for them to stay relevent for now.

One day it might catch up to us. If you keep giving up picks you do run out of options.

I thought this was the best part of the article. I expected to see a same old knicks analysis and I don't see that with this move at all.

It's not really that the Knicks' trade of Marcus Camby, Steve Novak, a first-round pick and two second-round picks for Raptors forward Andrea Bargnani completed Sunday night is a bad deal. It's not a monstrous miscalculation that sets the franchise back, it's not surrendering good talent for bad, and it does have a certain amount of value when it comes to the team's short-term goal of winning a title, at least hypothetically.

Bargnani gives the Knicks a bench scorer who can spread the floor if he's shooting well, which he hasn't the last few years. He doesn't rebound at an acceptable rate, even for a small forward. He defends exceptionally poorly, especially in help defense situations against the drive. And he has injury concerns.

But if he's shooting well, look out!

But still, Camby wasn't going to contribute at a significant level. Novak was a nonpresence last season, especially in the playoffs. So who cares what they gave up for him? Oh, and the picks? The picks are never going to be worth anyth...

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on...

Nalod wrote:
Bottom line is the trade for Bargs makes it possible for them to stay relevent for now.

One day it might catch up to us. If you keep giving up picks you do run out of options.

I don't see how nalod.. I just don't think the guy is a good NBA player anymore... not a bad player, but not a good one, and doesn't address any of our needs..

CrushAlot wrote:I thought this was the best part of the article. I expected to see a same old knicks analysis and I don't see that with this move at all.

It's not really that the Knicks' trade of Marcus Camby, Steve Novak, a first-round pick and two second-round picks for Raptors forward Andrea Bargnani completed Sunday night is a bad deal. It's not a monstrous miscalculation that sets the franchise back, it's not surrendering good talent for bad, and it does have a certain amount of value when it comes to the team's short-term goal of winning a title, at least hypothetically.

Bargnani gives the Knicks a bench scorer who can spread the floor if he's shooting well, which he hasn't the last few years. He doesn't rebound at an acceptable rate, even for a small forward. He defends exceptionally poorly, especially in help defense situations against the drive. And he has injury concerns.

But if he's shooting well, look out!

But still, Camby wasn't going to contribute at a significant level. Novak was a nonpresence last season, especially in the playoffs. So who cares what they gave up for him? Oh, and the picks? The picks are never going to be worth anyth...

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on...

I think he was fair in this article.... but again, look at what he is saying... long term this does nothing for the knicks.. and short term this is not going to get the knicks a ring, it will hurt more long term than it does help short term.. I just don't think bargs is interested in playing in the NBA anymore...

tkf wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Bottom line is the trade for Bargs makes it possible for them to stay relevent for now.

One day it might catch up to us. If you keep giving up picks you do run out of options.

I don't see how nalod.. I just don't think the guy is a good NBA player anymore... not a bad player, but not a good one, and doesn't address any of our needs..

Size, spreading the floor on offense, a great pick and roll player, and a guy that is coming back from non career threatening injuries and leaving a horrible situation should help the Knicks in my opinion. The guys that left were not helping.

Only 50% of players drafted actually make it in the NBA, 30% become stars, and less then 10% become super stars..for every ginobili, theres a 25 sweetneys.

It's a lottery, what are your odds in a lottery..the knicks may develope 1 or 2 draft players in over a decade...There been better UNDRAFTED players then there have been late 1st round picks, 2nd round picks are a shot in the dark altogether.

Were not a rebuilding team at any point, and won't be for the for next 5 yrs or more.

I'm not worry about the pick because grunwald has shown he can find talent outside the draft..

tkf wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Bottom line is the trade for Bargs makes it possible for them to stay relevent for now.

One day it might catch up to us. If you keep giving up picks you do run out of options.

I don't see how nalod.. I just don't think the guy is a good NBA player anymore... not a bad player, but not a good one, and doesn't address any of our needs..

Honestly, I really don't think this was about Bargnani the player; it was about Bargnani the shorter contract than Novak's. I really do believe that this was more about shedding salary for 2015 then it was about competing the next two years. We'll have a better idea when we see what sort of contracts JR, Prigioni, and Copeland get and how we use our MLE.

CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Bottom line is the trade for Bargs makes it possible for them to stay relevent for now.

One day it might catch up to us. If you keep giving up picks you do run out of options.

I don't see how nalod.. I just don't think the guy is a good NBA player anymore... not a bad player, but not a good one, and doesn't address any of our needs..

Size, spreading the floor on offense, a great pick and roll player, and a guy that is coming back from non career threatening injuries and leaving a horrible situation should help the Knicks in my opinion. The guys that left were not helping.

great? he is not great at anything.. come on now.. if he were great at anything the raps would not be dumping him for trash and a pick..

VCoug wrote:

tkf wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Bottom line is the trade for Bargs makes it possible for them to stay relevent for now.

One day it might catch up to us. If you keep giving up picks you do run out of options.

I don't see how nalod.. I just don't think the guy is a good NBA player anymore... not a bad player, but not a good one, and doesn't address any of our needs..

Honestly, I really don't think this was about Bargnani the player; it was about Bargnani the shorter contract than Novak's. I really do believe that this was more about shedding salary for 2015 then it was about competing the next two years. We'll have a better idea when we see what sort of contracts JR, Prigioni, and Copeland get and how we use our MLE.

and this even highlights this organizations problems even more.. are they trying to win now, or build for 2015, if so, why are we giving away picks? just a conflict and a backwards way of doing business..

I think the new CBA has made it easier to pick up guys like JR and KMart on the cheap...Late round picks become less relevant ...Look at the FA list, many of those players won't be getting top dollar...

Nalod wrote:
Bottom line is the trade for Bargs makes it possible for them to stay relevent for now.

One day it might catch up to us. If you keep giving up picks you do run out of options.

Low risk with a potential high reward. I'm a gambling man, glad they rolled the dice

tkf wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Bottom line is the trade for Bargs makes it possible for them to stay relevent for now.

One day it might catch up to us. If you keep giving up picks you do run out of options.

I don't see how nalod.. I just don't think the guy is a good NBA player anymore... not a bad player, but not a good one, and doesn't address any of our needs..

Size, spreading the floor on offense, a great pick and roll player, and a guy that is coming back from non career threatening injuries and leaving a horrible situation should help the Knicks in my opinion. The guys that left were not helping.

great? he is not great at anything.. come on now.. if he were great at anything the raps would not be dumping him for trash and a pick..

I don't see the word great in my post. I do think he will help and the potential is there for him to help a lot. Again not sure where, "great' is coming from.

tkf wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Bottom line is the trade for Bargs makes it possible for them to stay relevent for now.

One day it might catch up to us. If you keep giving up picks you do run out of options.

I don't see how nalod.. I just don't think the guy is a good NBA player anymore... not a bad player, but not a good one, and doesn't address any of our needs..

Size, spreading the floor on offense, a great pick and roll player, and a guy that is coming back from non career threatening injuries and leaving a horrible situation should help the Knicks in my opinion. The guys that left were not helping.

great? he is not great at anything.. come on now.. if he were great at anything the raps would not be dumping him for trash and a pick..

Oops. I do think he is a great pick and roll player. I didn't see it in my post. I was watching some tapes of him this morhing. What I really like is that hopefully it isn't Tyson getting the ball at the top of the key anymore. I cringed whenever that happened. Bargs can hit that shot, drive to the hoop or pull up and pop a jumper. Tyson out there was pretty dicey.

CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Bottom line is the trade for Bargs makes it possible for them to stay relevent for now.

One day it might catch up to us. If you keep giving up picks you do run out of options.

I don't see how nalod.. I just don't think the guy is a good NBA player anymore... not a bad player, but not a good one, and doesn't address any of our needs..

Size, spreading the floor on offense, a great pick and roll player, and a guy that is coming back from non career threatening injuries and leaving a horrible situation should help the Knicks in my opinion. The guys that left were not helping.

great? he is not great at anything.. come on now.. if he were great at anything the raps would not be dumping him for trash and a pick..

Oops. I do think he is a great pick and roll player. I didn't see it in my post. I was watching some tapes of him this morhing. What I really like is that hopefully it isn't Tyson getting the ball at the top of the key anymore. I cringed whenever that happened. Bargs can hit that shot, drive to the hoop or pull up and pop a jumper. Tyson out there was pretty dicey.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triang...

The Versatility of Andrea Bargnani in Pick-and-Rolls
By Sebastian Pruiti on March 29, 2012 4:30 PM ET
AP Photo/The Canadian Press, Nathan Denette

With about six minutes left in the fourth quarter of their game Wednesday against the Denver Nuggets, the Toronto Raptors found themselves trailing by 1 point. Coming off a possession that started with an offensive rebound, the Raptors pulled the basketball out and ran a pick-and-roll between Jose Calderon and Andrea Bargnani. It worked so well that they went back to it, then they went back to it again.

In total, the Raptors used Bargnani as the roll man in the pick-and-roll three times during a two-minute stretch, scoring seven points off of it (good for a PPP of 2.33), and turning a 1-point deficit into a four-point lead. What's really interesting about these pick-and-rolls is that they not only got into them three different ways, but Bargnani scored out of them three different ways, showing off his versatility when put in pick-and-rolls.

VCoug wrote:

tkf wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Bottom line is the trade for Bargs makes it possible for them to stay relevent for now.

One day it might catch up to us. If you keep giving up picks you do run out of options.

I don't see how nalod.. I just don't think the guy is a good NBA player anymore... not a bad player, but not a good one, and doesn't address any of our needs..

Honestly, I really don't think this was about Bargnani the player; it was about Bargnani the shorter contract than Novak's. I really do believe that this was more about shedding salary for 2015 then it was about competing the next two years. We'll have a better idea when we see what sort of contracts JR, Prigioni, and Copeland get and how we use our MLE.

Do you really gain with shorter contract if Bargs contract was $7.5mil richer overall Camby(buyout)/Novak combined? So you shed salary for 2015, Felton's next right?

You shed $3.7mil giving up a potential Shumpert/Kawhai/Faried type talent when we'll have.....

Melo
Shumpert
Smith
Felton
Exceptions(MLE/LLE/VME)

on the books possibly more depending on free agency signings?

tkf wrote:

VCoug wrote:

tkf wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Bottom line is the trade for Bargs makes it possible for them to stay relevent for now.

One day it might catch up to us. If you keep giving up picks you do run out of options.

I don't see how nalod.. I just don't think the guy is a good NBA player anymore... not a bad player, but not a good one, and doesn't address any of our needs..

Honestly, I really don't think this was about Bargnani the player; it was about Bargnani the shorter contract than Novak's. I really do believe that this was more about shedding salary for 2015 then it was about competing the next two years. We'll have a better idea when we see what sort of contracts JR, Prigioni, and Copeland get and how we use our MLE.

and this even highlights this organizations problems even more.. are they trying to win now, or build for 2015, if so, why are we giving away picks? just a conflict and a backwards way of doing business..

Look, you can fight the inept management that is MSG or just ride along I suppose.

There is a belief that with cap space alone one can build a team with?

If not melo, we'll bring in another "star" or two and because we have not picks not be able to cultivate a core of greatness.

MSG has to pay for its new restyled arena and co.ckblock the Nets from stealing the city.

Nets are developing utes the last few years with a trio of euro's, Tayshon Taylor and Blatche. Blatch could stick and continue to grow up. Two years under Garnett might do the trick.

Nets are starphuching and mortgaging the future but kind of built a pipeline. How good is it? I don't really know.
They are also paying an assinine tax on top!

As for the knicks Im just along for the ride. There is no sense in fighting this anymore as there is no logical benefit to posting such things on a thread as if our voice matters. We can argue the starphuch or laugh at it. We can laugh at the homer who swallows the pearl necklace.

3G4G wrote:

VCoug wrote:

tkf wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Bottom line is the trade for Bargs makes it possible for them to stay relevent for now.

One day it might catch up to us. If you keep giving up picks you do run out of options.

I don't see how nalod.. I just don't think the guy is a good NBA player anymore... not a bad player, but not a good one, and doesn't address any of our needs..

Honestly, I really don't think this was about Bargnani the player; it was about Bargnani the shorter contract than Novak's. I really do believe that this was more about shedding salary for 2015 then it was about competing the next two years. We'll have a better idea when we see what sort of contracts JR, Prigioni, and Copeland get and how we use our MLE.

Do you really gain with shorter contract if Bargs contract was $7.5mil richer overall Camby(buyout)/Novak combined? So you shed salary for 2015, Felton's next right?

You shed $3.7mil giving up a potential Shumpert/Kawhai/Faried type talent when we'll have.....

Melo
Shumpert
Smith
Felton
Exceptions(MLE/LLE/VME)

on the books possibly more depending on free agency signings?

I think Smith is going to the Bucks. Have you heard anything to suggest he is back? Also, my guess is the mle is for Brand and 2 yrs so that would be off the cap. Felton is 4.2 mil if he picks up his option I believe.

holfresh wrote:I think the new CBA has made it easier to pick up guys like JR and KMart on the cheap...Late round picks become less relevant ...Look at the FA list, many of those players won't be getting top dollar...

Bingo. The landscape has changed. Less money to go around making it easier to find cheap labor elsewhere, such as free agency and overseas.

CrushAlot wrote:

3G4G wrote:

VCoug wrote:

tkf wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Bottom line is the trade for Bargs makes it possible for them to stay relevent for now.

One day it might catch up to us. If you keep giving up picks you do run out of options.

I don't see how nalod.. I just don't think the guy is a good NBA player anymore... not a bad player, but not a good one, and doesn't address any of our needs..

Honestly, I really don't think this was about Bargnani the player; it was about Bargnani the shorter contract than Novak's. I really do believe that this was more about shedding salary for 2015 then it was about competing the next two years. We'll have a better idea when we see what sort of contracts JR, Prigioni, and Copeland get and how we use our MLE.

Do you really gain with shorter contract if Bargs contract was $7.5mil richer overall Camby(buyout)/Novak combined? So you shed salary for 2015, Felton's next right?

You shed $3.7mil giving up a potential Shumpert/Kawhai/Faried type talent when we'll have.....

Melo
Shumpert
Smith
Felton
Exceptions(MLE/LLE/VME)

on the books possibly more depending on free agency signings?

I think Smith is going to the Bucks. Have you heard anything to suggest he is back? Also, my guess is the mle is for Brand and 2 yrs so that would be off the cap. Felton is 4.2 mil if he picks up his option I believe.

They are saying they are trying to split the MLE between Cope and Prigs so Brand maybe coming at the Vet min.

tkf wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:I thought this was the best part of the article. I expected to see a same old knicks analysis and I don't see that with this move at all.

It's not really that the Knicks' trade of Marcus Camby, Steve Novak, a first-round pick and two second-round picks for Raptors forward Andrea Bargnani completed Sunday night is a bad deal. It's not a monstrous miscalculation that sets the franchise back, it's not surrendering good talent for bad, and it does have a certain amount of value when it comes to the team's short-term goal of winning a title, at least hypothetically.

Bargnani gives the Knicks a bench scorer who can spread the floor if he's shooting well, which he hasn't the last few years. He doesn't rebound at an acceptable rate, even for a small forward. He defends exceptionally poorly, especially in help defense situations against the drive. And he has injury concerns.

But if he's shooting well, look out!

But still, Camby wasn't going to contribute at a significant level. Novak was a nonpresence last season, especially in the playoffs. So who cares what they gave up for him? Oh, and the picks? The picks are never going to be worth anyth...

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on...

I think he was fair in this article.... but again, look at what he is saying... long term this does nothing for the knicks.. and short term this is not going to get the knicks a ring, it will hurt more long term than it does help short term.. I just don't think bargs is interested in playing in the NBA anymore...

Maybe he isnt interested in playing in Toronto, I wouldnt want to