Knicks · So Far we have the dumbest front office in the NBA for over 14 years and maybe more. we just can't get it right. (page 1)

Papabear Says

I have been a knicks fan for over 55 years and celebrated the 2 championships. But lets take a closer look! New York is the Mecca of basketball. Now lets look at the big City's. Boston won multiple championships, the Lakers have won Multiple championship and Chicago and San antonio has won multiple champion ships. What have the knicks done? Nothing but bad moves and over the hill ex stars. Something is wrong with that. Why in the hell couldn't we have signed Copeland to a one year and a one year option at our discretion? or 3years. Copeland would have signed anything to get in the league. I truly believe Copeland would have came back if it wasn't for Woody. We could have been creative with some of the contracts to make it work. What gets me there is no mention of getting a draft pick 2nd round for him. We are in big ass trouble this coming season. Woody's love for JR Smith and not playing rookies will get his ass fired. We need a young coach with fresh ideas. After going over What Woody did in the playoffs and we thought Camby was hurt but no he wasn't Woody just wouldn't play him. He rather see Chandler getting his ass kicked be Hibbert all 6 games. Woody is supposed to be a defensive coach and he believe the offense will just kick in. Well that just don't work if you don't have the shooters making shots. I am embarrassed to listen to sports news and here every one talk about all the gains that other teams are making and we just get bargarnie. If things don't change we will become a team hardly making the playoffs and Melo just might bounce. The Melo hater will love that but I will say this to the Melo haters. When we get all that cap space back all the GMs from around the league will love it so they can stick all of their bad deal up our ass. We don't have any draft picks so we will just buy up bad deal until we are over the cap again and the cycle begins again. All of you haters of Melo do you really think we are capable of doing the right thing If so I have a 3 feet midget that you just might like taking Melo's place. He is a real nice guy who can pass the ball and is unselfish. Your type of guy.

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

I have been a knicks fan for over 55 years and celebrated the 2 championships. But lets take a closer look! New York is the Mecca of basketball. Now lets look at the big City's. Boston won multiple championships, the Lakers have won Multiple championship and Chicago and San antonio has won multiple champion ships. What have the knicks done? Nothing but bad moves and over the hill ex stars. Something is wrong with that. Why in the hell couldn't we have signed Copeland to a one year and a one year option at our discretion? of 3years. Copeland would have signed anything to get in the league. I truly believe Copeland would have came back if it wasn't for Woody. We could have been creative with some of the contracts to make it work. What gets me there is no mention of getting a draft pick 2nd round for him. We are in big ass trouble this coming season. Woody's love for JR Smith and not playing rookies will get his ass fired. We need a young coach with fresh ideas. After going over What Woody did in the playoffs and we thought Camby was hurt but no he wasn't Woody just wouldn't play him. He rather see Chandler getting his ass kicked be Hibbert all 6 games. Woody is supposed to be a defensive coach and he believe the offense will just kick in. Well that just don't work if you don't have the shooters making shots. I am embarrassed to listen to sports news and here every one talk about all the gains that other teams are making and we just get bargarnie. If things don't change we will become a team hardly making the playoffs and Melo just might bounce. The Melo hater will love that but I will say this to the Melo haters. When we get all that cap space back all the GMs from around the league will love it so they can stick all of their bad deal up our ass. We don't have any draft picks so we will just buy up bad deal until we are over the cap again and the cycle begins again. All of you haters of Melo do you really think we are capable of doing the right thing If so I have a 3 feet midget that you just might like taking Melo's place. He is a real nice guy who can pass the ball and is unselfish. Your type of guy.

We made a pirse poor contract decision with Copeland that has plagued a few NBA teams--just not the smart one's:) If you sign a younger player--put some options on it. If we had 1-2 team options Copeland would be a Knick for less than 1mm.

BRIGGS wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

I have been a knicks fan for over 55 years and celebrated the 2 championships. But lets take a closer look! New York is the Mecca of basketball. Now lets look at the big City's. Boston won multiple championships, the Lakers have won Multiple championship and Chicago and San antonio has won multiple champion ships. What have the knicks done? Nothing but bad moves and over the hill ex stars. Something is wrong with that. Why in the hell couldn't we have signed Copeland to a one year and a one year option at our discretion? of 3years. Copeland would have signed anything to get in the league. I truly believe Copeland would have came back if it wasn't for Woody. We could have been creative with some of the contracts to make it work. What gets me there is no mention of getting a draft pick 2nd round for him. We are in big ass trouble this coming season. Woody's love for JR Smith and not playing rookies will get his ass fired. We need a young coach with fresh ideas. After going over What Woody did in the playoffs and we thought Camby was hurt but no he wasn't Woody just wouldn't play him. He rather see Chandler getting his ass kicked be Hibbert all 6 games. Woody is supposed to be a defensive coach and he believe the offense will just kick in. Well that just don't work if you don't have the shooters making shots. I am embarrassed to listen to sports news and here every one talk about all the gains that other teams are making and we just get bargarnie. If things don't change we will become a team hardly making the playoffs and Melo just might bounce. The Melo hater will love that but I will say this to the Melo haters. When we get all that cap space back all the GMs from around the league will love it so they can stick all of their bad deal up our ass. We don't have any draft picks so we will just buy up bad deal until we are over the cap again and the cycle begins again. All of you haters of Melo do you really think we are capable of doing the right thing If so I have a 3 feet midget that you just might like taking Melo's place. He is a real nice guy who can pass the ball and is unselfish. Your type of guy.

We made a pirse poor contract decision with Copeland that has plagued a few NBA teams--just not the smart one's:) If you sign a younger player--put some options on it. If we had 1-2 team options Copeland would be a Knick for less than 1mm.

It is becoming clear that Grunwald is in over his head as lead GM. He's made some good moves but I don't think he has a handle on the position. Maybe he will accept a more behind the scenes role and we can bring in a more adequate gm

BRIGGS wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

I have been a knicks fan for over 55 years and celebrated the 2 championships. But lets take a closer look! New York is the Mecca of basketball. Now lets look at the big City's. Boston won multiple championships, the Lakers have won Multiple championship and Chicago and San antonio has won multiple champion ships. What have the knicks done? Nothing but bad moves and over the hill ex stars. Something is wrong with that. Why in the hell couldn't we have signed Copeland to a one year and a one year option at our discretion? of 3years. Copeland would have signed anything to get in the league. I truly believe Copeland would have came back if it wasn't for Woody. We could have been creative with some of the contracts to make it work. What gets me there is no mention of getting a draft pick 2nd round for him. We are in big ass trouble this coming season. Woody's love for JR Smith and not playing rookies will get his ass fired. We need a young coach with fresh ideas. After going over What Woody did in the playoffs and we thought Camby was hurt but no he wasn't Woody just wouldn't play him. He rather see Chandler getting his ass kicked be Hibbert all 6 games. Woody is supposed to be a defensive coach and he believe the offense will just kick in. Well that just don't work if you don't have the shooters making shots. I am embarrassed to listen to sports news and here every one talk about all the gains that other teams are making and we just get bargarnie. If things don't change we will become a team hardly making the playoffs and Melo just might bounce. The Melo hater will love that but I will say this to the Melo haters. When we get all that cap space back all the GMs from around the league will love it so they can stick all of their bad deal up our ass. We don't have any draft picks so we will just buy up bad deal until we are over the cap again and the cycle begins again. All of you haters of Melo do you really think we are capable of doing the right thing If so I have a 3 feet midget that you just might like taking Melo's place. He is a real nice guy who can pass the ball and is unselfish. Your type of guy.

We made a pirse poor contract decision with Copeland that has plagued a few NBA teams--just not the smart one's:) If you sign a younger player--put some options on it. If we had 1-2 team options Copeland would be a Knick for less than 1mm.

Papabear Says

Read my post. Thats just what I said.

Papabear, no point getting worked up Knicks ain't winning nothing for the foreseeable future. It's locked up for heat to win for the next 3-4 years. right now they can get anyone from Copeland to Lin they aren't going to win its not in the cards. All the moves that the Knicks make are just sideways moves it doesn't make them better and the problem too is it doesn't make them worse, which is a strategy in itself. They don't tank when they should and win when they can't get to the top.

Knicks (Dolan) are more committed to making money rather than winning. In that regard, I'd say they're doing a pretty good job.

This is uncharted territory for me - agreeing with Papabear!!

TeamBall wrote:Knicks (Dolan) are more committed to making money rather than winning. In that regard, I'd say they're doing a pretty good job.

They are about exploiting what's left of the brand to the maximum possible limit by investing in cheap party tricks and gimmicks. Yes the jersey sales must be good.

This is why the plan should be to go all out in 2015 but the Knicks are already deviating from that plan which makes you wonder if it is even in their plans. We will know for sure when Amare is traded for a bad contract

gunsnewing wrote:This is why the plan should be to go all out in 2015 but the Knicks are already deviating from that plan which makes you wonder if it is even in their plans. We will know for sure when Amare is traded for a bad contract

this 2015 thingy is a fan perception, i honestly cant say the team itself has even publicly made 2015 free agency any form of priority.

gunsnewing wrote:This is why the plan should be to go all out in 2015 but the Knicks are already deviating from that plan which makes you wonder if it is even in their plans. We will know for sure when Amare is traded for a bad contract

They can't deviate from what they never had. The Knicks never said it was their plan to create cap space for 2015, that was speculation by journalists and fans trying to rationalize the Bargnani signing. 2015 is two years away the Knicks don't think that far into the future. The Spurs are likely planning for 2020.

BEING A KNICKS FAN IS HARD.

loweyecue wrote:This is uncharted territory for me - agreeing with Papabear!!

I know - Papabear finally made it over to the dark side!

This has been a really bad off-season for the Knicks.

loweyecue wrote:

TeamBall wrote:Knicks (Dolan) are more committed to making money rather than winning. In that regard, I'd say they're doing a pretty good job.

They are about exploiting what's left of the brand to the maximum possible limit by investing in cheap party tricks and gimmicks. Yes the jersey sales must be good.

Completely agreed but it is working. People still pay those ridiculous ticket prices (im guilty of that) and become enamored with the big names. After we got Melo and Amare, I cant tell you how many of my friends suddenly became fans and started going to games and buying jerseys.

TeamBall wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

TeamBall wrote:Knicks (Dolan) are more committed to making money rather than winning. In that regard, I'd say they're doing a pretty good job.

They are about exploiting what's left of the brand to the maximum possible limit by investing in cheap party tricks and gimmicks. Yes the jersey sales must be good.

Completely agreed but it is working. People still pay those ridiculous ticket prices (im guilty of that) and become enamored with the big names. After we got Melo and Amare, I cant tell you how many of my friends suddenly became fans and started going to games and buying jerseys.

So true I see all the Melo jerseys here at the gym in NJ. Same people who wore Kidd Nyets jerseys and now will probably ditch the Melo jerseys and sport deron williams

gunsnewing wrote:This is why the plan should be to go all out in 2015 but the Knicks are already deviating from that plan which makes you wonder if it is even in their plans. We will know for sure when Amare is traded for a bad contract

Look at the mavs- clearing cap space doesn't guarantee success- as we found out back when we had to sign Amar'e, sometimes you miss out on all your targets and have to settle.

I'm not a fan of this "lets give up" before the season even begins. People wanted to give up last offseason, then again in the preseason when Amar'e went down. Turned out to be a fun season.

We did well last year, people are acting like we didn't win a single game. Lets see if we can build on it.

People act like this not winning a championship is a deliberate conspiracy orchestrated by Dolan to make money. Wining a championship is damn hard- there is no easy way, no foolproof strategy- one injury spells doom.

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

I have been a knicks fan for over 55 years and celebrated the 2 championships. But lets take a closer look! New York is the Mecca of basketball. Now lets look at the big City's. Boston won multiple championships, the Lakers have won Multiple championship and Chicago and San antonio has won multiple champion ships. What have the knicks done? Nothing but bad moves and over the hill ex stars. Something is wrong with that. Why in the hell couldn't we have signed Copeland to a one year and a one year option at our discretion? or 3years. Copeland would have signed anything to get in the league. I truly believe Copeland would have came back if it wasn't for Woody. We could have been creative with some of the contracts to make it work. What gets me there is no mention of getting a draft pick 2nd round for him. We are in big ass trouble this coming season. Woody's love for JR Smith and not playing rookies will get his ass fired. We need a young coach with fresh ideas. After going over What Woody did in the playoffs and we thought Camby was hurt but no he wasn't Woody just wouldn't play him. He rather see Chandler getting his ass kicked be Hibbert all 6 games. Woody is supposed to be a defensive coach and he believe the offense will just kick in. Well that just don't work if you don't have the shooters making shots. I am embarrassed to listen to sports news and here every one talk about all the gains that other teams are making and we just get bargarnie. If things don't change we will become a team hardly making the playoffs and Melo just might bounce. The Melo hater will love that but I will say this to the Melo haters. When we get all that cap space back all the GMs from around the league will love it so they can stick all of their bad deal up our ass. We don't have any draft picks so we will just buy up bad deal until we are over the cap again and the cycle begins again. All of you haters of Melo do you really think we are capable of doing the right thing If so I have a 3 feet midget that you just might like taking Melo's place. He is a real nice guy who can pass the ball and is unselfish. Your type of guy.

papabear, I have been a knick fan for 34 years, nowhere as long as you have, and you have seen a lot I am sure, but I have been saying this for so long.. we just don't get it, and I am telling you it not only started with signing amare without insurance but we compounded that by making this trade for carmelo.. I just want to take an enema to this team.. just think the knicks are in the biggest market, have he most income, yet the rockets have LIN, Harden, Parsons and now Dwight and maybe josh smith... I am sorry, but something is wrong with that.. while we are looking at signing elton Brand.... SMDH!!

All of you haters of Melo do you really think we are capable of doing the right thing

what does that have to do with anything? if we were melo lovers does that mean we should believe that we are capable of doing the right thing?

loweyecue wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:This is why the plan should be to go all out in 2015 but the Knicks are already deviating from that plan which makes you wonder if it is even in their plans. We will know for sure when Amare is traded for a bad contract

They can't deviate from what they never had. The Knicks never said it was their plan to create cap space for 2015, that was speculation by journalists and fans trying to rationalize the Bargnani signing. 2015 is two years away the Knicks don't think that far into the future. The Spurs are likely planning for 2020.

Bingo x 1000000000000000000000000000

You took the words right out of my mouth.. the knicks have no plans for 2015, that is just the fans way of rationalizing the Bargs trade.. plain and simple...

tkf wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:This is why the plan should be to go all out in 2015 but the Knicks are already deviating from that plan which makes you wonder if it is even in their plans. We will know for sure when Amare is traded for a bad contract

They can't deviate from what they never had. The Knicks never said it was their plan to create cap space for 2015, that was speculation by journalists and fans trying to rationalize the Bargnani signing. 2015 is two years away the Knicks don't think that far into the future. The Spurs are likely planning for 2020.

Bingo x 1000000000000000000000000000

You took the words right out of my mouth.. the knicks have no plans for 2015, that is just the fans way of rationalizing the Bargs trade.. plain and simple...

I been looking at 2015 since we signed Tyson, so I don't think the bargs trade had much to do with it. Novak, Felton and Shump were the only ones on the books for that year. Now it's Jr, Felton and Shump which i still don't like but it's better than paying novak.

Anyway, I agree with you Papa, we have to start working smarter and keeping our talent. No way Copeland contract should have not included options, just crazy to me.

I don't think the Knicks had a REALLY bad offseason, I actually like our draft pick and think with Tyson, Bargs my improve. Now if they are talking about keeping Melo at the 4...well i just don't have any words for this organization. Maybe they see something I don't. We still have moves to make, so I wouldn't categorize this as bad yet ... bad is Denver.

Hersports85 wrote:

tkf wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:This is why the plan should be to go all out in 2015 but the Knicks are already deviating from that plan which makes you wonder if it is even in their plans. We will know for sure when Amare is traded for a bad contract

They can't deviate from what they never had. The Knicks never said it was their plan to create cap space for 2015, that was speculation by journalists and fans trying to rationalize the Bargnani signing. 2015 is two years away the Knicks don't think that far into the future. The Spurs are likely planning for 2020.

Bingo x 1000000000000000000000000000

You took the words right out of my mouth.. the knicks have no plans for 2015, that is just the fans way of rationalizing the Bargs trade.. plain and simple...

I been looking at 2015 since we signed Tyson, so I don't think the bargs trade had much to do with it. Novak, Felton and Shump were the only ones on the books for that year. Now it's Jr, Felton and Shump which i still don't like but it's better than paying novak.

Anyway, I agree with you Papa, we have to start working smarter and keeping our talent. No way Copeland contract should have not included options, just crazy to me.

I don't think the Knicks had a REALLY bad offseason, I actually like our draft pick and think with Tyson, Bargs my improve. Now if they are talking about keeping Melo at the 4...well i just don't have any words for this organization. Maybe they see something I don't. We still have moves to make, so I wouldn't categorize this as bad yet ... bad is Denver.

Thats more Woodson than the organization as a whole

I'm largely indifferent to Copeland leaving. He had a few flashes in the pan but by no means was he a sure-fire player. We've actually been burned by guys like this in the past (see Steve Novak) and had some near misses as well (Jeremy Lin, Shawne Williams, Earl Barron circa 2010).
This isn't to say that the Knicks didn't screw up. For the life of me, I don't understand how/why Grunwald fails to offer flexible contracts. Would it have been so difficult to have initially signed Chris to a 2 or 3 year contract with team options? Imagine how pretty we'd be sitting right now if he did. Even if the players bombs, like James White, they could be used in trades like we did with Camby and Felton. I just don't get the Knicks and really hope they get things right in 2015 because things could quickly become just as bad as the 2000's if Melo gets injured.

Moving forward, we're going to need to re-invest in the draft (hopefully we get a draft pick back for Copeland; and Martin if he leaves) and get a coach with a more liberal mindset. Woodson clings to relics of the past and it'll kill this team. He doesn't play/develop young players because he favors seniority and he doesn't go with the hot hand because he has favorites on the team. Can anyone explain to me why the fuck Prigioni was stapled to the bench early in the season with Kidd tanking?