Knicks · 1st Summer league game (page 3)

CJ leslie got blown right by a few times.. needs quicker feet

Vargas and Tyler will be fighting for a big man spot out of SL

TOURE NURRAY is a VERY CRAFTY guard

Didn't the Knicks try to do this with Melo when MDA was here.

Clean wrote:

Vmart wrote:I wouldn't worry to much about Shumpert once he is running the point during regular season all he will have to do is dump the ball to Melo or give it to JR.

We can get a D league player to just dump the ball to melo. Why would we make Shump less effective to do something anyone can do.

This doesn't allow for Shump to be in the lineup with Melo, JR, Barf, and Chandler what Woody envisions is probably have Shump with them.

nixluva wrote:

NYY1NYK2 wrote:Tyler, vargas, mcmorrow
In that order

If chris smith, makes the team. The knicks are finished. The guy is lost out there
Shump should publically, in the media, say "I do not want to be a PG"

WHY do people keep saying that? You guys are giving the impression Shump looked horrible when he didn't. Shump had some good plays today and he didn't have a problem bringing the ball up and running the play, directing players. He's not a PG, but he can get better and this is a step in that direction. He'll get better the more he does it and he wasn't that bad today. People are judging him as you would a pure PG rather than a SG/SF who can run point.

He wasn't good either

Vmart wrote:Didn't the Knicks try to do this with Melo when MDA was here.

Shump played point some in college. Again the Knicks have been saying they want him to improve his ball handling. I think that is all this is. Woodson likes to play lineups with at least two ball handlers.

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:Didn't the Knicks try to do this with Melo when MDA was here.

Shump played point some in college. Again the Knicks have been saying they want him to improve his ball handling. I think that is all this is. Woodson likes to play lineups with at least two ball handlers.

How do players improve without reps. He is not going to be a pg anytime soon but he needs to be comfortable running PnRs and dishing to the corner, throwing a pocket pass, lob, or whatever. One other thing I hope they do is have him push the ball up court to create a one man fast break at times.

yellowboy90 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:Didn't the Knicks try to do this with Melo when MDA was here.

Shump played point some in college. Again the Knicks have been saying they want him to improve his ball handling. I think that is all this is. Woodson likes to play lineups with at least two ball handlers.

How do players improve without reps. He is not going to be a pg anytime soon but he needs to be comfortable running PnRs and dishing to the corner, throwing a pocket pass, lob, or whatever. One other thing I hope they do is have him push the ball up court to create a one man fast break at times.

If you watched the SL game today Shump was pushing the ball in the 2nd half. He was effective on several of those plays. I think too many Knicks fans are being ridiculously hard on Shump cuz he doesn't look smooth as a PG. That's not the point of this exercise. Shump needs to round out his skills and BB IQ. When you run point you get to learn what everyone is doing on a play and what are the best spots to hit them with a pass. It's a REALLY important aspect of the game to learn. I think it's great and will only make Shump a better player. Also it's only a small part of his off season training. He'll have months to work on his SG skills. People are just making too much of this.

very impressed with t. murry

callmened wrote:very impressed with t. murry

I like Murry more than Chris Smith or J'COvan Brown. Murry is like a skinny version of Shump. He's long and a pest on D. He's smooth and slick going to the basket. Just a nice PG prospect IMO. He fits right into what the Knicks do and I'm pulling for him this year.

I think this is one of the best Big man contingents in the Knicks SL team. I mean there's some real talent out there to work with. Tyler and Vargas really impressed me. McMorrow is HUGE and at least a guy who can use some fouls and bang with the biggest guys in the league.

I think CJ Leslie is great in transition, but needs a bit more work in the half court. He's got SO MUCH TALENT. Gotta keep working with this kid and find a role for him to feel confident.

not a fan of CJ Leslie. im sorry, i watched a million games of his in the acc. i was like you thinking he has SO much ability, it has to work out. but he just never got better. hes a tweener and at his size, he needs to get a jumper (which he doesnt have). doesnt play wing defense well and cant post up.

t. murry looked good even though he didnt do much offensively. great defense and defensive stance. i hope he makes the team.

i think the big men just need PLAYS UN FOR THEM. to see if they have skills. yes i think tyler was lazy most of the game, but once they started running plays for him, he was effective

Everyone likes this mcmorrow guy because he's oversized, meanwhile he stinks...not every big guy is nba material. I thought he looked pretty awful out there.

Dagger wrote:Everyone likes this mcmorrow guy because he's oversized, meanwhile he stinks...not every big guy is nba material. I thought he looked pretty awful out there.

I agree. It looked like his arms were sore from doing to much curls to get his arms right fir Vegas. Dude just looked really tight.....maybe he can become a bouncer lol

Overall i think thus game was sloppy on both ends. Rivers on the Pelicans was unguardable and was the difference. The pelican squad just had to play of him. The knicks have got to get Shump in Rivers level as far as trying to score the ball. Shump should not have problems dropping 20 on thus level of talent. The knicks need him to be a scorer not a distributor. So i get they want him to work on his handle, but in a was that focus on his offense not so much trying to get other guys shots. I wanna see Shump go at guys in summer league like Rivers. Site your while game.

As fat as everyone else? Everyone was trying too hard. Leslie was pressing. He settled down in the second half. He looks Alot like Derrick Mckey or more like Malik sealy. He as the potential to be really good. He just needs to do what he does and stop trying to prove he can do other stuff. He could be thdetlef schremp or james worthy. He just has to relax and play. stop trying to prove.

Vargas was surprised me. He looks awkward but he us playing in Huss element. Not doing anything he can'Het do. Nit sold on him though.

Jeremy Tyler is a beast. Reminds me if Demarcus cousins. He is very old sill though as far as game. He could be very good. He has a shit load of moves but he us moving faster than the game. Man if this kid can settle down he could be very good. I don't think there us anybody like him in the NBA. He need to see Hakim. Or work with sometime like that. If he gets patience watch out.

Anyone see how Bullock played for Atlanta? I noticed he was 8-15 with 3 steals. (He was picked right after Hardaway Jr and many preferred him over him.)
I hope once Hardaway Jr improves his shot selection he % goes up...

Bullock filled a more more pressing need. The fact Doc and the clips drafted him with th very next pick shows me when screwed up

gunsnewing wrote:Bullock filled a more more pressing need. The fact Doc and the clips drafted him with th very next pick shows me when screwed up

What do you mean? Just being a better shooter? Better defender? What does Hardaway JR do better? Drive?

Bullock is a lights out shooter. We needed that more than another JR with poor shot selection. I think I am agreeing with you. I don't get the point in drafting THJ when they were bring back JR and already have Shumpert. It's not like THJ can play PG. Makes no sense. I hope whoever saw something in him is right. I don't expect him to suit up at all this year. Or ever since JR and Shump are in the books for a while. Maybe he gets traded with Amare if we are lucky since we don't have any picks.

If we were drafting wingman I would've not risk redundancy and drafted Bolluck

you can't assume a Ufa is going to come back when your funds are limited. Crabbe/Bullock would have been my pick but it is what it is. I like some of the things I saw in THjr like him handling the ball and his athleticism. I'm not going to dump on someone after their first live scrimmage.

yellowboy90 wrote:you can't assume a Ufa is going to come back when your funds are limited. Crabbe/Bullock would have been my pick but it is what it is. I like some of the things I saw in THjr like him handling the ball and his athleticism. I'm not going to dump on someone after their first live scrimmage.

not unless Chris Smith wants to earn a paycheck
He is not even good enough to be on a D League squad

GustavBahler wrote:You're a real piece of work Nix. You've been wrong about too many things to question anyone's knowledge of the game. It usually comes in the first sentence, some remark about a poster you are having a discussion with being somehow mentally deficient. Try showing more class and just rebut my points without the constant insults because at some point you're going to have to prove it on a court.

You've reduced all the weaknesses I've pointed out in his game to putting his head down. Brilliant, just brilliant. You keep trying to convince me that there is value to playing the point, and I will try one last time to tell you that I agree with you. Where we differ is that I don't believe that dribbling the ball to the halfcourt line and passing off to a teammate on the wing is a substitute for learning his off the ball skills by actually playing off the ball.

THJ is getting the bulk of the minutes at the 2 because they are trying to develop him as a 2. This was Shump's idea to play SL so they figured they would let him play the point and maybe he will get better at sharing the ball. Nothing wrong with that if you already have other parts of your game down. Shump doesn't not even close. That's why I say that he has more pressing needs than dribbling the ball to the halfcourt line and passing to a teammate.

I think your points are well stated. While having a well-rounded schematic awareness is obviously useful, playing point guard is neither a requisite nor a surrogate for playing the 2 guard position. From a team need perspective, developing catch and shoot consistency and an array of dribble penetration moves is a priority.

Iman at the point offers us valuable defensive versatility, as previously mentioned, and from a long-term improvement perspective, the early exposure has utility. But based on his exhibited talents so far and the inevitable scarcity of time and effort with any endeavor, I tend to agree that the bulk of focus should remain on building traditional shooting guard skills.

I take the 2 way player (Bullock) all day over the 1 way athletic player. Bullock (from what I just read at a few different sites) is a MUCH better shooter (lights out) and a much better defender (but not an athlete). But, Hardaway Jr can create his own shot much better. My question is, how important is that on a team with Melo and JR? Maybe it is important as it takes pressure off Melo, can't argue that. But the consensus is that Bullock is a better fit for us. Another head scratcher in our draft history. We pass on a guy in Bullock who is described as a lights out shooter and very very good defender for a one way, albeit more athletic, player. I like Jr, just miffed that we passed on a consens better pick.

I will say the one BIG area of hope I have for Hardaway JR, and it is a big thing, is that in college the zone closed off his talent to a point. He will have more freedom in the NBA and he is a GREAT athlete.

Ratings:
Hardaway 9th vs Bullock 5th - http://www.cbssports.com/nba/draft/prosp...
Mock draft - Hardaway 19 vs Bullock 31 - http://www.nbadraft.net/2013mock_draft
Doesn't even list Bullock (whew) - http://asubstituteforwar.wordpress.com/2...
That last one is interesting as Hardaway is near the top in feel for the game (but not shot). Quoted a bit below.
http://www.nbadraft.net/2013-nba-draft-t...

Some articles comparing the two:
http://meloshipofthering.com/archives/53...
just a tidbit mentioned- http://www.nba.com/clippers/news/hardawa...

Tim Hardaway, Jr.

Physical impact talent grade – 3 / Weak

Skill impact (Shoot, post, pass) talent grade – 5 / Average

Feel for the Game talent grade – 8 / Great

Total talent grade: 16 (Rotation player talent grade)

The NBA player offsprings rate similarly for me. Both players have an impressive feel for the game with smooth, controlled games. I rate their physical impact talent as below average as despite strong size for the position, they don’t have great speed or ballhandling. This will likely make them perimeter orientated shooters, rather than great threats attacking the basket.

The big hinging point for Hardaway and Rice’s careers is their shooting and skill impact (shoot, post, pass) Hardaway’s shooting splits at Michigan are solid, but not great. Rice at Georgia Tech shot awfully, however has had strong numbers in the D League. Thus for both players it appears their shooting could go either way. I give more credit to Rice in the area for what he’s shown in the D League. With either player, a decent 3pt shot will likely make them valuable role player talent, due to the size and feel added to it. If their 3pt shot falls apart, it’d prove my skill impact grade too high and they’d struggle to get past journeyman irrelevance talent. However likewise if more dynamic perimeter skill players than I’ve given them credit for, they have a shot at pushing themselves up to true starter status. Hardaway and Rice can be rock solid players in the NBA, though there’s also a risk they disappoint if taken too high if the shooting doesn’t come through.

1. SG Victor Oladipo (top 5)
2. SG Ben McLemore (top 10)
3. SG B.J. Young (top 20)
4. SG Jamaal Franklin (top 20) - Hmmmmmm, many here liked him.
5. SG Seth Curry (top 20) - What!
6. SG Glen Rice, Jr. (top 30)
7. SG Tim Hardaway, Jr. (top 30)
8. SG Ricardo Ledo (top 30)
9. SG Archie Goodwin (top 40)
10. SG Allen Crabbe (top 40)
11. SG Alex Abrines (top 40)
12. SG Kentavious Caldwell-Pope (top 60)
13. SG Brandon Paul (undrafted)