martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:matt wrote:Knicks are claiming that they knew this during contract discussions and that it wasn't an issue.
Isola is on the money
Damned good questions, unfortunately. Aw crap, here we go again.
not for me.
JR signed for $2.8M last year and it was obviously waaaaaayyyyyy below market value, this is the Knicks doing right by the player. His $5.5M may still be undervalued.
That's nice and all Martin but we are talking about the same guy who imploded in two playoffs. We got more than we paid for during the regular season and a lot less when it mattered in the playoffs. I give him all the credit for his regular season success but not to the point where its in return for a bum knee and a 4 year contract. Its a pattern. I fell for it but at some point you want to cut bait.
Imploded. He was obviously injured and didn't live up to his in-season play, which was fantastic and possibly means JR was on an upward curve to his game being more complete.
Again, JR played for the Knicks for last year (and the year before too) at below market value, how do you want to run your organization? Is this a career devastating injury or just out 3-4 months and almost good as new?
I would say getting tossed from a playoff game and your absence from a suspension playing a big part in another win is imploding. I would say guaranteeing a win when you come back and playing like garbage is imploding. i would say his performance from top to bottom was imploding.
GustavBahler wrote:I would say getting tossed from a playoff game and your absence from a suspension playing a big part in another loss is imploding. I would say guaranteeing a loss when you come back and playing like garbage is imploding. i would say his performance from top to bottom was imploding.
some young guys do stupid things in the moment; see Spree, Artest. I don't want to put words in your mouth but I am guessing that if you were GM you wouldn't have brought in those 2 guys to the teams you were a part of and in retrospect it would have been a big old mistake.
LET THE INJURIES BEGIN! 
Are we starting early this year?
martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:matt wrote:Knicks are claiming that they knew this during contract discussions and that it wasn't an issue.
Isola is on the money
Damned good questions, unfortunately. Aw crap, here we go again.
not for me.
JR signed for $2.8M last year and it was obviously waaaaaayyyyyy below market value, this is the Knicks doing right by the player. His $5.5M may still be undervalued.
That's nice and all Martin but we are talking about the same guy who imploded in two playoffs. We got more than we paid for during the regular season and a lot less when it mattered in the playoffs. I give him all the credit for his regular season success but not to the point where its in return for a bum knee and a 4 year contract. Its a pattern. I fell for it but at some point you want to cut bait.
Imploded. He was obviously injured and didn't live up to his in-season play, which was fantastic and possibly means JR was on an upward curve to his game being more complete.
Again, JR played for the Knicks for last year (and the year before too) at below market value, how do you want to run your organization? Is this a career devastating injury or just out 3-4 months and almost good as new?
he wasn't injured he was playing hurt-- big difference.
bottom line is the second round of the playoffs seems above his pay grade.
martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:I would say getting tossed from a playoff game and your absence from a suspension playing a big part in another loss is imploding. I would say guaranteeing a loss when you come back and playing like garbage is imploding. i would say his performance from top to bottom was imploding.
some young guys do stupid things in the moment; see Spree, Artest. I don't want to put words in your mouth but I am guessing that if you were GM you wouldn't have brought in those 2 guys to the teams you were a part of and in retrospect it would have been a big old mistake.
You are putting words in my mouth because I was for JR coming back after his first bad performance in the playoffs. After plays during the regular season as well that would make Woodson pull all his hair out if he had any, because he was coming back for relatively little, knowing that he was playing for a bigger deal. I don't believe he earned it. I worry more about him repeating a pattern and letting us down again at the worst possible moment aka the playoffs.
As for Metta, he is a tough one. As I said, if he didn't complain about touches or PT at this stage in his career I would be for him coming back. Since you asked me to play GM, I would talk to him and gauge whether or not I believed he could avoid making the back page. I'm all for second chances but we are beyond that point with JR.
technomaster wrote:JR's recovery time is long - so that probably means that they repaired the injured tissue vs just snipping off jagged edges. He'll be better off in the long term. As long as he takes it slow, he'll be just coming on when the rest of the players on the team are just breaking down. :)
I thought that I read somewhere that it is even better if it is done in two parts (Gallo's surgery?).
Torn meniscus and patella tendon surgery sounds makes it sound like he was playing with what Westbrook finished the game with after Beverly crashed into him. Makes me wonder how compromised he was during the INdy series. I am remember him as playing well up until his suspension for the Terry incident.
I think the Knicks did the right thing with JR. They knew they would have the ability to survive his not being here with THJ, AB and Shump stepping into a bigger role. JR can take as long as he needs to rehabilitate and as was stated that we simply lose that $5 mil salary slot if we don't sign him. That would be a huge loss in terms of overall value. JR will eventually heal from this and then it will be more clear that there is value in having him rather than letting him go. Don't want to see any of our players have surgery, but it's better than having him blow out his knee and be out for longer. I hope he comes back stronger than ever.
If JR was this hurt Woody should have used Cope more. Once again Woody dropped the ball. I knew it Smith had absolutely no folders from other teams they walked away just like Dallas put Harris on hold.
See you in year 3 JR when it's time to play for another contract. How dumb are the Knicks.
dk7th wrote:martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:matt wrote:Knicks are claiming that they knew this during contract discussions and that it wasn't an issue.
Isola is on the money
Damned good questions, unfortunately. Aw crap, here we go again.
not for me.
JR signed for $2.8M last year and it was obviously waaaaaayyyyyy below market value, this is the Knicks doing right by the player. His $5.5M may still be undervalued.
That's nice and all Martin but we are talking about the same guy who imploded in two playoffs. We got more than we paid for during the regular season and a lot less when it mattered in the playoffs. I give him all the credit for his regular season success but not to the point where its in return for a bum knee and a 4 year contract. Its a pattern. I fell for it but at some point you want to cut bait.
Imploded. He was obviously injured and didn't live up to his in-season play, which was fantastic and possibly means JR was on an upward curve to his game being more complete.
Again, JR played for the Knicks for last year (and the year before too) at below market value, how do you want to run your organization? Is this a career devastating injury or just out 3-4 months and almost good as new?
he wasn't injured he was playing hurt-- big difference.
bottom line is the second round of the playoffs seems above his pay grade.
I follow Isola and I gotta say he is horrible. The man is constantly berating every decision the knicks have made. No objectivity.
Maybe there are good reasons to give JR a 4 year contract. I'm not sure. But that we owed him for taking less than he was worth for his previous contract isn't one of them. You give out a 4 year contract based on what someone can do for you in the next 4 years, not what they did for you the past 2.
JR could have NOT opted out and we'd still have him.
My long standing theory is the money was already predetermined and the knicks, like many others stay to a handshake deal.
We can bring him along slowly and make sure he is ready when he is ready.
Knicks don't answer to us so WTF does it matter.
GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:matt wrote:Knicks are claiming that they knew this during contract discussions and that it wasn't an issue.
Isola is on the money
Damned good questions, unfortunately. Aw crap, here we go again.
not for me.
JR signed for $2.8M last year and it was obviously waaaaaayyyyyy below market value, this is the Knicks doing right by the player. His $5.5M may still be undervalued.
That's nice and all Martin but we are talking about the same guy who imploded in two playoffs. We got more than we paid for during the regular season and a lot less when it mattered in the playoffs. I give him all the credit for his regular season success but not to the point where its in return for a bum knee and a 4 year contract. Its a pattern. I fell for it but at some point you want to cut bait.
Papabear Says
Stop being spoiled. We haven't won anything in 13 years and JR Played a big part in bringing up back to respectability again.
JR is a Knick. He's important to the success of the team and I wish only that he get 100% healthy. Doesn't matter at this point what the Knicks knew. If they felt he wasn't going to be able to return from this I doubt they would've locked him in. None of us knows this for sure, but it only makes sense that they had doctors review the injuries and their seriousness for JR's long term health. Good thing is he won't have to rush.
matt wrote:Knicks are claiming that they knew this during contract discussions and that it wasn't an issue.
Isola is on the money
Knicks absolutely knew about this- I remember there were vague mentions of him having a sore knee during the season and then after the playoffs they said he had been playing with fluid in his knee like Melo had been back in that rough spell. At the time I thought they had made it up to try and stop the partying rumours, but looks like they were telling the truth. Guess they kept it hush as he didn't want it getting out and harming his FA value.
Glad we got Bargs now! Don't think people realise how hard JR worked last offseason- really showed during the season. That means expect a lot less from him this season- back to bad jump shots and less driving. Hopefully he's back to form by the end of the season.
Can't believe people still whine about his contract- $5 to $6mil is easily tradeable in 2 yrs if we need to. In a world where Keith Bogans gets $5mil to make a deal work, trust me on this. And if you think you're getting a better player for $6mil than JR in 2 years time you obviously haven't been paying attention to nba offseasons!
Isola is an idiot. He's on with Robin Lundberg. He's basically poo pooing the MWP signing saying he doesn't know what he has left. KG and Pierce are both older with even more mileage on them and he's not questioning their value.
KG is 37. Yes he's in great shape, but he could easily be questioned about how much he has left.
PP is 36 in Oct. Everyone is ecstatic about them with very little mention of their age and deteriorating bodies.
Isol still talking ish. UGH he said some of us Knick fans are incredibly blind but loyal. His main issue seems to be that he doesn't like the Knicks secretive ways and not making brass available. Sneaking out the JR surgery info and the teams injury issues over the years. He has some points about the Knicks awful policies, but overall he's a hater and I don't know why he even covers the team. There's no joy in his coverage of the sport. He's always surly and down on everything. He should go over to the Nets exclusively IMO.
nixluva wrote:Isola is an idiot. He's on with Robin Lundberg. He's basically poo pooing the MWP signing saying he doesn't know what he has left. KG and Pierce are both older with even more mileage on them and he's not questioning their value.KG is 37. Yes he's in great shape, but he could easily be questioned about how much he has left.
PP is 36 in Oct. Everyone is ecstatic about them with very little mention of their age and deteriorating bodies.
Isol still talking ish. UGH he said some of us Knick fans are incredibly blind but loyal. His main issue seems to be that he doesn't like the Knicks secretive ways and not making brass available. Sneaking out the JR surgery info and the teams injury issues over the years. He has some points about the Knicks awful policies, but overall he's a hater and I don't know why he even covers the team. There's no joy in his coverage of the sport. He's always surly and down on everything. He should go over to the Nets exclusively IMO.
The weird thing is that for a few weeks both him and Berman actually became believers in the team last season- think Isola was convinced they'd take down the Pacers right to the end. It was actually a nice change! Now he seems to be reverting back- the problem is he has a lot of bitterness towards Dolan (fair enough, don't we all), so it doesn't take much to deactivate all of that.
What depresses me the most about this thread is Tina's tweet that 3-4months JUST takes us to the start of the season- damn! I was sure the season was only a month or two away! 3 to 4 months is ages!
Robin Lundberg is the only guy on either radio stations that actually knows the NBA
GustavBahler wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:saw this coming. It was reported during the playoffs he was playing through a knee injury. FA is over so now he has surgery. THjr stand up.
What did JR know and when did he know it?
can't find the post I wrote here on my Android so I will repost it. This came out during the playoffs at the same time as Rhianna's claim that he was playing like crap because he was out drinking. JR desputed the claim and shortly after (days) the info started leaking about his knee being hurt along with some sort of bacterial virus. Guys preferred to hate on dude and being TRUE Knick fans chose to believe the far negative of the 2stories. I even posted about his injury and no one wanted to credit it as true.
I believe it was Nalod (I might be wrong) who said that his people likely leaked it so he wouldn't look bad.
martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:matt wrote:Knicks are claiming that they knew this during contract discussions and that it wasn't an issue.
Isola is on the money
Damned good questions, unfortunately. Aw crap, here we go again.
not for me.
JR signed for $2.8M last year and it was obviously waaaaaayyyyyy below market value, this is the Knicks doing right by the player. His $5.5M may still be undervalued.
Didnt need to make it 4 years. He wasnt getting 4 years from anyone
y2zipper wrote:According to Zwerling, the team knew about the injury during the playoffs.Doesn't really matter. Can't spend the money elsewhere and it doesn't affect 2015...
This is the same stupid philosophy that keeps the Knicks from winning a title u realize that right. Who cares about 2016 draft picks thats 3 years from now, Who cares about his 3rd and 4th year we couldnt spend money in the first 2. Keep robbing the future for minimal gain is stupid. If your going to rob future assets then make sure u can win
