Off Topic · Not one thread on the Zimmerman Verdict... (page 1)

Interesting.

Anything that could lead to race are avoided here, people can't discuss it with an open mind.
It would have been the longest thread ever.

Jrodmc,

Playa is right, its a very emotional issue.

I remember back when it happened and how long it took for the DA to bring charges which could have been seen as pandering to public pressure to prosecute Zimmerman. I don't think they had a very strong case to convict him from the beginning and was reluctant to go to trail.

Im only going on the laws on how they exist, not on emotion.

Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter at some level but the "stand down rule" made it complicated. In a civil lawsuit he'll lose that one.

Its gotten too emotional to discuss with people.

Our system is designed to let a guilty man go free than convict an innocent man. There are always exceptions.

playa2 wrote:Anything that could lead to race are avoided here, people can't discuss it with an open mind.
It would have been the longest thread ever.

Flat wrong: we have had plenty of threads that are race related.

martin wrote:

playa2 wrote:Anything that could lead to race are avoided here, people can't discuss it with an open mind.
It would have been the longest thread ever.

Flat wrong: we have had plenty of threads that are race related.

there have been a lot but this one is a bit different...

anyway, I'm kind of glad this hasn't popped up here. I think the reason a thread on this hasn't been started here is because every single one of us has already had a lot of conversation on the topic. Everyone I've talked to about this is in one of two camps: (1) the system worked exactly the way it was designed and that makes this terrible and (2) the system worked exactly the way it was designed to work and that is fantastic

what's great is that, because i do not watch ANY television news, i was spared the circus, and i feel healthier for it.

Nalod wrote:Jrodmc,

Playa is right, its a very emotional issue.

I remember back when it happened and how long it took for the DA to bring charges which could have been seen as pandering to public pressure to prosecute Zimmerman. I don't think they had a very strong case to convict him from the beginning and was reluctant to go to trail.

Im only going on the laws on how they exist, not on emotion.

Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter at some level but the "stand down rule" made it complicated. In a civil lawsuit he'll lose that one.

Its gotten too emotional to discuss with people.

Our system is designed to let a guilty man go free than convict an innocent man. There are always exceptions.

Well Nalod you just discussed it, so the door is open now, you gave you opinion on the subject.

When only one person can give their opinion because the other one is dead, it's hard to find out how things really happened. Zimmermann's father who was a retired judge may have helped him early on, maybe the reason why they didn't at least keep him in jail early on.

Sanford Florida is the same town where Jackie Robinson had major issues as a young man trying to play pro baseball.

Its a tragic event which racism played a major role on both sides.

Zim's father might have seen that proper protocols were met but racism and outcry for justice forced the DA to prosecute and with the benefit of hindsight, we confirm there was not enough to convict.

Let me be clear on one thing, Im not defending Zimmerman and I think it was an awful tragic moment were both men collided with prejudice and one had a gun. Trayvon should have been left alone and he commited no crime to justify Zimmerman stopping him. Zimmerman also did not commit a crime by stopping him. After that, both men exchanged in some capacity liability to which could not be sorted out. I don't believe Zimmerman intent was to kill. Thats not to say he is not guilty of some form of manslaughter.

While I won't defend Zimmerman at the same time I won't defend Martin. I defend due process.

Racism played a big role and perhaps in the form of the black community (justified) outrage and demanding some process to bring justice. Again, in hindsight we can question this based on the result.

Zimmerman is entitled to his rights as well and that the process bringing him "to justice" is also within the letter of the law. Its a high profile case so everything was magnified.

Its a high profile case so bringing "justice" by black groups might also be forgetting the daily shootings in our big cities, and how many black men are not given due process and railroaded thru justices so a conviction can be made? Thus, might the resources be better used to help others who are being unfairly prosecuted? Do racists come in all shapes and colors as well?

The Florida law perhaps not a very good one. It is this law and the disputable events that formed the trail.

The Dept of Justice reviewed the case and could have found any irregularities. Im not aware there are any that can point to a specific one that could justify a reversal.

I guess the real question is did due process play out? Not saying "justice was served" because a young man is dead and nobody is convicted which can't sit well emotionally with a lot of people.

Like I said, its a high profile case and every day there are perhaps dozens of other cases that could warrant support and resources that could bring justice or defend the rights of the innocent instead of going after zimmerman.

Jackie Robinson in florida nearly 70 years ago has nothing to do with anything. Sanford is redneck florida and Jackie robinson had problems in lots of towns as well.

I've been to Sanford, FLA and its crap.

martin wrote:

playa2 wrote:Anything that could lead to race are avoided here, people can't discuss it with an open mind.
It would have been the longest thread ever.

Flat wrong: we have had plenty of threads that are race related.

playa your the most close minded person around here. You believe what you believe and anyone else are just sheep following the media controlled by rich anglosaxon white aliens.

This case sucked to follow. It appears due process was followed. Do I agree with the verdict? No. From what I understand Zim was in a car. There was no crime being committed. If Zim doenst get out of the car nothing happens. Instead he starts a conflict and it ends in a young man dying and thats a shame. How that can happen without consequence from the law strikes me as a failure of the system and the laws of the land.

Thats the danger of due process, its the best out there, but its also far from perfect. You take race out of it and you see due process favors those with knowledge of the system (Zim) or money (OJ). Both are racially charged examples of what appears to be clear failing of the justice system. By "opinion" playa really means pick your side.

Its certainly not fair and not right. Zim will pay, he's not employable and the Martin's will win a civil suit in a heartbeat and that will ensure anything in Zims name will belong to them.

Remember Zim isnt off the hook yet, I believe he can still be tried in federal court?

fishmike wrote:

martin wrote:

playa2 wrote:Anything that could lead to race are avoided here, people can't discuss it with an open mind.
It would have been the longest thread ever.

Flat wrong: we have had plenty of threads that are race related.

playa your the most close minded person around here. You believe what you believe and anyone else are just sheep following the media controlled by rich anglosaxon white aliens.

Fishmike , being opinionated doesn't equate with being closed minded. It just means I have a voice.

Nalod wrote:
Its a tragic event which racism played a major role on both sides.

Zim's father might have seen that proper protocols were met but racism and outcry for justice forced the DA to prosecute and with the benefit of hindsight, we confirm there was not enough to convict.

1st cop on the scene was calling for manslaughter, he later changed his tune. They believed the testimony of the one alive, the kid on the ground dead was considered a John Doe.
Nobody went door to door and ask did they know the kid,Zimmermann's story was believed , because dead men don't talk.

A girl from around my way made this song after Trayvon's death last yr.

This song was inspired by this event

Let's try to stay away from histrionics about justice and due process and lawyer wannabe talk for just 5 minutes and honestly answer the following question:

Does this get any play at all if Zimmerman is black? What if both Zim and Martin were white?

Google black on black crime and you get liberal psychobabble non-answers about white on white crime, fighting about decimal points on FBI data, and my personal favorite: "there is no such thing as black on black crime".

It's outrage over the neverending continued racism that exists on both sides. Plain and simple. It feeds into the whole victim mentality, enablement society that's been created over the past 50 years. Dopey rat brained bigots used to lynch white folks too. Rats will continue to breed rats, if the mentality doesn't change.

Approx 18,000 homicides occur in the US every single year. Why does this one end up getting it's own 24 hour reality show, and probable book deals and all this response?

playa2 wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Its a tragic event which racism played a major role on both sides.

Zim's father might have seen that proper protocols were met but racism and outcry for justice forced the DA to prosecute and with the benefit of hindsight, we confirm there was not enough to convict.

1st cop on the scene was calling for manslaughter, he later changed his tune. They believed the testimony of the one alive, the kid on the ground dead was considered a John Doe.
Nobody went door to door and ask did they know the kid,Zimmermann's story was believed , because dead men don't talk.

Playa,

You generally look for the result that suites you and work backwards.

Your picking out facts to justify you opinion but not the big picture.

Forget what an aszhole Zimmerman was, or what an angel Martin was or was not. It don't matter. Zimmerman exibited bad judgement and was prejudiced in his profile of Martin but I don't believe his intent was to murder him. There was a confrontation and nobody knows but Zimmerman what really happend.

The rest I already discussed. Don't matter what the first cop was calling for.

We do agree on something....

Thats not to say he is not guilty of some form of manslaughter.

and LIke Fish said, the guy might not be in jail but he is not "free". The Martin family will own his ass.

Remember the florida law and the presumed innocent factor. Zimmerman might have been guilty but they could not convict him. Its why the DA was reluctant to go after him and remember the public outcry for Zimmermans arrest!

Was justice served? Likley not. Was Due prosess implimented? Likely so.

I KNOW FOR A FACT: If Zimmerman was black and Trayvon was white and the same scenario ensued, his testimony wouldn't have been believed early on and he would have been in jail waiting more of an investigation.
I think that's what made things racial inequality early on.

And the beat goes on...

playa2 wrote:I KNOW FOR A FACT: If Zimmerman was black and Trayvon was white and the same scenario ensued, his testimony wouldn't have been believed early on and he would have been in jail waiting more of an investigation.
I think that's what made things racial inequality early on.

This was the initial outrage, whether you believe it or not.

playa2 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

martin wrote:

playa2 wrote:Anything that could lead to race are avoided here, people can't discuss it with an open mind.
It would have been the longest thread ever.

Flat wrong: we have had plenty of threads that are race related.

playa your the most close minded person around here. You believe what you believe and anyone else are just sheep following the media controlled by rich anglosaxon white aliens.

Fishmike , being opinionated doesn't equate with being closed minded. It just means I have a voice.

when the only opinion your open to listening to is your own, actually... yea it does. you spout some conspiracy article and listen to none of the facts afterwards. Any disagreement is simply more evidence of the branwashed media following zombies. That = close minded. The gov isnt responsible for the school shootings or the Colorado shootings. The gov didnt blow up the trade towers with controlled explosions and Americans really did walk on the moon. Just thought I would keep you updated.

This case showed that Fla had a horrendous law and the accused was treated different than the avg perp. Twist it anyway you want, change the topic if you want, but it is what it is.

playa2 wrote:This case showed that Fla had a horrendous law and the accused was treated different than the avg perp. Twist it anyway you want, change the topic if you want, but it is what it is.

Its not an avg case and never was.

How was he treated different than the avg Perp? No videos to speak for you this time? NO cut and paste to plagerize?

In your own words playa, in you own words.

Nalod wrote:

playa2 wrote:This case showed that Fla had a horrendous law and the accused was treated different than the avg perp. Twist it anyway you want, change the topic if you want, but it is what it is.

Its not an avg case and never was.

How was he treated different than the avg Perp? No videos to speak for you this time? NO cut and paste to plagerize?

In your own words playa, in you own words.

He was released after killing someone without further investigation, it shows that the police assumed Trayvon was a bad dude who got shot no big deal and they believed what Zimmermann said with no proof. If the Zimmerman was black and Trayvon was white he would have been locked up until witnesses were asked questions. No way he would have been free for 6 weeks. That's white privilege there. This is why people got upset before there was a trial or verdict, why is that hard to see.. Zimmerman was taken into custody, treated for head injuries, then questioned for five hours. The police chief said that Zimmerman was released for lack of evidence and lack of legal grounds for arrest, and that Zimmerman had a right to defend himself with lethal force. Who did they talk to know this (Zimmerman)? Somebody was shot dead and Zimmerman did it, they obviously believed Zimmerman's story and let him go while John Doe layed there dead from a gunshot wound in the heart. Notice nobody went around the neighborhood to see if anyone knew Trayvon, where he was staying was only 70 yds away.