Knicks · Udrih: Knicks Must Elevate Defense, Rebounding To Reach Championship Level. Hint, hint, (page 2)

haha. The team scored like 85 points a game against Indiana. Has a player ever said "We need to put up more points to reach championship level"? It's not like Udrih is known for defense too. He's just saying what every player always says, even if it doesn't actually fit the team's situation.

dk7th wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Melo was on fire last year, but hopefully he learned that he can't get this team to the finals single handedly. The problem is the vicious circle- Melo is a willing passer when his teammates are hitting their shots- he started last season playing defense and chucking less. However once Brewer, Felton and JKidd started bricking, he decided he had to do all the scoring. Now does Melo not pass because his team mates aren't hitting their shots, or are his team mates not hitting their shots because Melo isn't passing to them. Really not sure. It would be nice to have some consistent scorers to find out once and for all.

it is not a vicious circle unless you have weak coaching and a player with deeply ingrained bad habits.

the onus will always be on the guy who has the ball in his hands the most. you use the regular season to create cohesion even when teammates miss. that way they are mentally prepared every game, playoffs included. funny how melo can miss an average of 12 shots a game and is always allowed to shoot himself out of slumps instead of putting the burden on himself to do other things like rebound, defend, and make passes and plays.

here's what needs to happen: if melo is on with his shooting at the beginning of his shifts then let him shoot. if he is not on at the beginning of his shifts he must not be allowed to keep shooting and should focus on all the other parts of basketball. gotta have a point guard who will not defer to this guy's self-infatuation.

Be fair though- how many games did we watch the rest of the team start the game bricking shot after shot, or go through a spell bricking shot after shot, getting scared to even shoot, then Melo take over and get us back in the game? It did happen a lot- lets not pretend every game he just chucked and bricked shots!

CrushAlot wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:Backhand shot at Carmelo well I guess he is gone

He was aaked what it took to win. Not sure how that is a back handed shot at Melo.

Everything is a shot at Melo on this board by some....

smackeddog wrote:

dk7th wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Melo was on fire last year, but hopefully he learned that he can't get this team to the finals single handedly. The problem is the vicious circle- Melo is a willing passer when his teammates are hitting their shots- he started last season playing defense and chucking less. However once Brewer, Felton and JKidd started bricking, he decided he had to do all the scoring. Now does Melo not pass because his team mates aren't hitting their shots, or are his team mates not hitting their shots because Melo isn't passing to them. Really not sure. It would be nice to have some consistent scorers to find out once and for all.

it is not a vicious circle unless you have weak coaching and a player with deeply ingrained bad habits.

the onus will always be on the guy who has the ball in his hands the most. you use the regular season to create cohesion even when teammates miss. that way they are mentally prepared every game, playoffs included. funny how melo can miss an average of 12 shots a game and is always allowed to shoot himself out of slumps instead of putting the burden on himself to do other things like rebound, defend, and make passes and plays.

here's what needs to happen: if melo is on with his shooting at the beginning of his shifts then let him shoot. if he is not on at the beginning of his shifts he must not be allowed to keep shooting and should focus on all the other parts of basketball. gotta have a point guard who will not defer to this guy's self-infatuation.

Be fair though- how many games did we watch the rest of the team start the game bricking shot after shot, or go through a spell bricking shot after shot, getting scared to even shoot, then Melo take over and get us back in the game? It did happen a lot- lets not pretend every game he just chucked and bricked shots!

This, is what a lot of folks keep forgetting.

Papabear wrote:

tkf wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

Udrih: Knicks Must Elevate Defense, Rebounding To Reach Championship Level
Aug 10, 2013 2:00 PM EDT

Beno Udrih put importance in joining a championship contending team and believes the New York Knicks can reach that level. Even so, he knows the team must elevate its desire for intangibles.

"What it takes is just to be a team and to definitely have good players," Udrih said. "There has to be chemistry and everything has to be right. That's how it was in San Antonio basically. Tim Duncan didn't care who scored the most points. He's a Hall of Famer, but he was more about the team. He just wanted us to win. Sometimes he scored 30, and the next day he scored 10, but he still was very, very productive in rebounding.

"Everybody has to work for each other, especially on the defensive end. I think we have enough scorers on our team now, but we definitely got to step up and basically defend first and then rebound the ball."

Udrih signed a one-year deal with the Knicks.
Via Jared Zwerling/ESPN

yet we did nothing to address that.. I have been saying that all offseason.. I guess beno is a hater....

Papabear Says

No Beno is not a hater. TKF you are a big joke trying to compare what Beno said to being a hater. You are a big time troll. Hater and everything that goes with it.You are redundant and everyone on the forum knows what you are so stop trying to compare what other people comment on about the knicks to you. You are one of a kind. Now go back under your bridge. I opened this thread for discussion and not for hate. Only someone like you could try to change that and use the word hate and you used that because you know what you are.

the one trick pony thinks Melo is the one trick pony

SupremeCommander wrote:

Papabear wrote:

tkf wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

Udrih: Knicks Must Elevate Defense, Rebounding To Reach Championship Level
Aug 10, 2013 2:00 PM EDT

Beno Udrih put importance in joining a championship contending team and believes the New York Knicks can reach that level. Even so, he knows the team must elevate its desire for intangibles.

"What it takes is just to be a team and to definitely have good players," Udrih said. "There has to be chemistry and everything has to be right. That's how it was in San Antonio basically. Tim Duncan didn't care who scored the most points. He's a Hall of Famer, but he was more about the team. He just wanted us to win. Sometimes he scored 30, and the next day he scored 10, but he still was very, very productive in rebounding.

"Everybody has to work for each other, especially on the defensive end. I think we have enough scorers on our team now, but we definitely got to step up and basically defend first and then rebound the ball."

Udrih signed a one-year deal with the Knicks.
Via Jared Zwerling/ESPN

yet we did nothing to address that.. I have been saying that all offseason.. I guess beno is a hater....

Papabear Says

No Beno is not a hater. TKF you are a big joke trying to compare what Beno said to being a hater. You are a big time troll. Hater and everything that goes with it.You are redundant and everyone on the forum knows what you are so stop trying to compare what other people comment on about the knicks to you. You are one of a kind. Now go back under your bridge. I opened this thread for discussion and not for hate. Only someone like you could try to change that and use the word hate and you used that because you know what you are.

the one trick pony thinks Melo is the one trick pony

Melo is a good player and he may win the chip one day.
But for this to happen he need some great player to lead him and the team to promised land.
Unfortunately the money Melo commands can be a great obstacle for him to ever win anything.
Even LeBron who is way above Melo in any respect was unable to do this alone and needed natural leader Wade help.
Melo is nice cool dude and there is no reason to hate him. But there is no reason to go crazy about him also.

SupremeCommander wrote:

Papabear wrote:

tkf wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

Udrih: Knicks Must Elevate Defense, Rebounding To Reach Championship Level
Aug 10, 2013 2:00 PM EDT

Beno Udrih put importance in joining a championship contending team and believes the New York Knicks can reach that level. Even so, he knows the team must elevate its desire for intangibles.

"What it takes is just to be a team and to definitely have good players," Udrih said. "There has to be chemistry and everything has to be right. That's how it was in San Antonio basically. Tim Duncan didn't care who scored the most points. He's a Hall of Famer, but he was more about the team. He just wanted us to win. Sometimes he scored 30, and the next day he scored 10, but he still was very, very productive in rebounding.

"Everybody has to work for each other, especially on the defensive end. I think we have enough scorers on our team now, but we definitely got to step up and basically defend first and then rebound the ball."

Udrih signed a one-year deal with the Knicks.
Via Jared Zwerling/ESPN

yet we did nothing to address that.. I have been saying that all offseason.. I guess beno is a hater....

Papabear Says

No Beno is not a hater. TKF you are a big joke trying to compare what Beno said to being a hater. You are a big time troll. Hater and everything that goes with it.You are redundant and everyone on the forum knows what you are so stop trying to compare what other people comment on about the knicks to you. You are one of a kind. Now go back under your bridge. I opened this thread for discussion and not for hate. Only someone like you could try to change that and use the word hate and you used that because you know what you are.

the one trick pony thinks Melo is the one trick pony

Lol +1

Beno may be the final piece this team needed. I know that there will be a group who will castigate me for saying that, but i'm telling you that it makes a huge difference. The impact we had when Kidd was able to actually still move was huge, but once he faded it really took this team down. Then Prigs was allowed to start and we got some of that mojo back. The problem is that Kidd was still being put in the same situation but couldn't deliver. Now with Beno we have a younger player that still has enough left in the tank to give this team what it needs. He's a better player for this team than Kidd was at this stage of his career.

So now we have 2 pure PG's in Prigs and Beno. We have more toughness on this roster. We have more versatility on this roster. We didn't have a player that could fit into the #2 scoring option of the starting lineup last year, but now we do. This is not a team built to be a #1 defensive team in the league. It's built to be a top scoring team. I believe this team's offense will be even better than last year. This team will have more options to attack with than last year, when the offense was a bit too simplistic and defenses were able to key on what the team was doing in the playoffs. This team is going to be tough to deal with and before the naysayers start popping off lets remember how this team handled some of the best teams in the league last year before the team broke down in the playoffs. Don't let the fact that the Knicks imploded physically in the playoffs cloud your judgment of what this team can do when it's not spent physically. You all saw that this teams key players wore down. Tyson, JR, Felton, Kidd, Melo even had his struggles. That's why it's important that the bench is there during the entire regular season. Last year it wasn't and we paid in the playoffs. This is not last years team. IT'S BETTER!

nixluva wrote:Beno may be the final piece this team needed. I know that there will be a group who will castigate me for saying that, but i'm telling you that it makes a huge difference. The impact we had when Kidd was able to actually still move was huge, but once he faded it really took this team down. Then Prigs was allowed to start and we got some of that mojo back. The problem is that Kidd was still being put in the same situation but couldn't deliver. Now with Beno we have a younger player that still has enough left in the tank to give this team what it needs. He's a better player for this team than Kidd was at this stage of his career.

So now we have 2 pure PG's in Prigs and Beno. We have more toughness on this roster. We have more versatility on this roster. We didn't have a player that could fit into the #2 scoring option of the starting lineup last year, but now we do. This is not a team built to be a #1 defensive team in the league. It's built to be a top scoring team. I believe this team's offense will be even better than last year. This team will have more options to attack with than last year, when the offense was a bit too simplistic and defenses were able to key on what the team was doing in the playoffs. This team is going to be tough to deal with and before the naysayers start popping off lets remember how this team handled some of the best teams in the league last year before the team broke down in the playoffs. Don't let the fact that the Knicks imploded physically in the playoffs cloud your judgment of what this team can do when it's not spent physically. You all saw that this teams key players wore down. Tyson, JR, Felton, Kidd, Melo even had his struggles. That's why it's important that the bench is there during the entire regular season. Last year it wasn't and we paid in the playoffs. This is not last years team. IT'S BETTER!

I definitely agree that we are better than last year, mainly because we have lost the 40somethings who -- despite their key contributions at times -- were simply unable to be there when we needed them the most. We've added some nice vets and youth, and hopefully will have enough depth to allow us to be ready come playoff time.

That said, I am most concerned about how we'll do against physical teams, namely the Pacers and Bulls, both of whom should be improved.

So to me, the No. 1 key for this season is Chandler. We absolutely need him to revert back to his 2011-12 form, and he MUST show up big time in the playoffs. Chandler has been a total nonfactor in the postseason in both of his seasons in NY, and if that continues in Season 3, we are toast.

smackeddog wrote:

dk7th wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Melo was on fire last year, but hopefully he learned that he can't get this team to the finals single handedly. The problem is the vicious circle- Melo is a willing passer when his teammates are hitting their shots- he started last season playing defense and chucking less. However once Brewer, Felton and JKidd started bricking, he decided he had to do all the scoring. Now does Melo not pass because his team mates aren't hitting their shots, or are his team mates not hitting their shots because Melo isn't passing to them. Really not sure. It would be nice to have some consistent scorers to find out once and for all.

it is not a vicious circle unless you have weak coaching and a player with deeply ingrained bad habits.

the onus will always be on the guy who has the ball in his hands the most. you use the regular season to create cohesion even when teammates miss. that way they are mentally prepared every game, playoffs included. funny how melo can miss an average of 12 shots a game and is always allowed to shoot himself out of slumps instead of putting the burden on himself to do other things like rebound, defend, and make passes and plays.

here's what needs to happen: if melo is on with his shooting at the beginning of his shifts then let him shoot. if he is not on at the beginning of his shifts he must not be allowed to keep shooting and should focus on all the other parts of basketball. gotta have a point guard who will not defer to this guy's self-infatuation.

Be fair though- how many games did we watch the rest of the team start the game bricking shot after shot, or go through a spell bricking shot after shot, getting scared to even shoot, then Melo take over and get us back in the game? It did happen a lot- lets not pretend every game he just chucked and bricked shots!

How many games did the team have slow first quarters because melo was taking over 7 shots shots and only hitting three?

here's the point, they were all bricking, but they dont get the chance to fix their bricks...melo gets to keep shooting, to hopefully fix his bricks.

here's his 1st quarter scoring from last season...courtesy of nba.com...

http://stats.nba.com/playerStats.html?Pl...

By comparison, here is kevin durant....notice less shots but better %'s.

http://stats.nba.com/playerStats.html?Pl...

here's LeBron......same scenario....

http://stats.nba.com/playerStats.html?Pl...

knickscity wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

dk7th wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Melo was on fire last year, but hopefully he learned that he can't get this team to the finals single handedly. The problem is the vicious circle- Melo is a willing passer when his teammates are hitting their shots- he started last season playing defense and chucking less. However once Brewer, Felton and JKidd started bricking, he decided he had to do all the scoring. Now does Melo not pass because his team mates aren't hitting their shots, or are his team mates not hitting their shots because Melo isn't passing to them. Really not sure. It would be nice to have some consistent scorers to find out once and for all.

it is not a vicious circle unless you have weak coaching and a player with deeply ingrained bad habits.

the onus will always be on the guy who has the ball in his hands the most. you use the regular season to create cohesion even when teammates miss. that way they are mentally prepared every game, playoffs included. funny how melo can miss an average of 12 shots a game and is always allowed to shoot himself out of slumps instead of putting the burden on himself to do other things like rebound, defend, and make passes and plays.

here's what needs to happen: if melo is on with his shooting at the beginning of his shifts then let him shoot. if he is not on at the beginning of his shifts he must not be allowed to keep shooting and should focus on all the other parts of basketball. gotta have a point guard who will not defer to this guy's self-infatuation.

Be fair though- how many games did we watch the rest of the team start the game bricking shot after shot, or go through a spell bricking shot after shot, getting scared to even shoot, then Melo take over and get us back in the game? It did happen a lot- lets not pretend every game he just chucked and bricked shots!

How many games did the team have slow first quarters because melo was taking over 7 shots shots and only hitting three?

here's the point, they were all bricking, but they dont get the chance to fix their bricks...melo gets to keep shooting, to hopefully fix his bricks.

here's his 1st quarter scoring from last season...courtesy of nba.com...

http://stats.nba.com/playerStats.html?Pl...

By comparison, here is kevin durant....notice less shots but better %'s.

http://stats.nba.com/playerStats.html?Pl...

here's LeBron......same scenario....

http://stats.nba.com/playerStats.html?Pl...

Didnt check the numbers but doesn't that go back to the whole melo needs help debate? Who is melo's wade or bosh. Who is his Westbrook? And no I don't think melo has a guy on last years team that could become Westbrook. Having two or three top ten offensive players in your starting line up makes it a lot easier for other players to score. Hopefully bargs becomes that second threat on offense. Brewer, Tyson, Kidd and Felton certainly weren't the scoring threats that the other guys mentioned had on the floor with them.

Playa Coach

smackeddog wrote:

Yep- wish he'd bring in an assistant to help with the offense- seems almost as bad as JVG when it comes to creativity on offense!

Beno Udrih is elevated to assistant coach

You need a coach on the floor.

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

Udrih: Knicks Must Elevate Defense, Rebounding To Reach Championship Level
Aug 10, 2013 2:00 PM EDT

Beno Udrih put importance in joining a championship contending team and believes the New York Knicks can reach that level. Even so, he knows the team must elevate its desire for intangibles.

"What it takes is just to be a team and to definitely have good players," Udrih said. "There has to be chemistry and everything has to be right. That's how it was in San Antonio basically. Tim Duncan didn't care who scored the most points. He's a Hall of Famer, but he was more about the team. He just wanted us to win. Sometimes he scored 30, and the next day he scored 10, but he still was very, very productive in rebounding.

"Everybody has to work for each other, especially on the defensive end. I think we have enough scorers on our team now, but we definitely got to step up and basically defend first and then rebound the ball."

Udrih signed a one-year deal with the Knicks.
Via Jared Zwerling/ESPN

Maybe he's suggesting he should be traded for an established quality backup C who can rebound and defend the paint?

Uptown wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:Backhand shot at Carmelo well I guess he is gone

He was aaked what it took to win. Not sure how that is a back handed shot at Melo.

Everything is a shot at Melo on this board by some....

Of course, it because of him that we lost the Legendary all time great one

DurzoBlint wrote:

Uptown wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:Backhand shot at Carmelo well I guess he is gone

He was aaked what it took to win. Not sure how that is a back handed shot at Melo.

Everything is a shot at Melo on this board by some....

Of course, it because of him that we lost the Legendary all time great one

Please, isn't it time to let Mardy Collins go?

CrushAlot wrote:
Didnt check the numbers but doesn't that go back to the whole melo needs help debate? Who is melo's wade or bosh. Who is his Westbrook? And no I don't think melo has a guy on last years team that could become Westbrook. Having two or three top ten offensive players in your starting line up makes it a lot easier for other players to score. Hopefully bargs becomes that second threat on offense. Brewer, Tyson, Kidd and Felton certainly weren't the scoring threats that the other guys mentioned had on the floor with them.

good post - kinda scary how much you and i haven been on the same page recently haha.

SupremeCommander wrote:

Papabear wrote:

tkf wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

Udrih: Knicks Must Elevate Defense, Rebounding To Reach Championship Level
Aug 10, 2013 2:00 PM EDT

Beno Udrih put importance in joining a championship contending team and believes the New York Knicks can reach that level. Even so, he knows the team must elevate its desire for intangibles.

"What it takes is just to be a team and to definitely have good players," Udrih said. "There has to be chemistry and everything has to be right. That's how it was in San Antonio basically. Tim Duncan didn't care who scored the most points. He's a Hall of Famer, but he was more about the team. He just wanted us to win. Sometimes he scored 30, and the next day he scored 10, but he still was very, very productive in rebounding.

"Everybody has to work for each other, especially on the defensive end. I think we have enough scorers on our team now, but we definitely got to step up and basically defend first and then rebound the ball."

Udrih signed a one-year deal with the Knicks.
Via Jared Zwerling/ESPN

yet we did nothing to address that.. I have been saying that all offseason.. I guess beno is a hater....

Papabear Says

No Beno is not a hater. TKF you are a big joke trying to compare what Beno said to being a hater. You are a big time troll. Hater and everything that goes with it.You are redundant and everyone on the forum knows what you are so stop trying to compare what other people comment on about the knicks to you. You are one of a kind. Now go back under your bridge. I opened this thread for discussion and not for hate. Only someone like you could try to change that and use the word hate and you used that because you know what you are.

the one trick pony thinks Melo is the one trick pony

you can tell when people feelings get hurt and they take it personal.. they attack the poster and not the post..

dk7th wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Melo was on fire last year, but hopefully he learned that he can't get this team to the finals single handedly. The problem is the vicious circle- Melo is a willing passer when his teammates are hitting their shots- he started last season playing defense and chucking less. However once Brewer, Felton and JKidd started bricking, he decided he had to do all the scoring. Now does Melo not pass because his team mates aren't hitting their shots, or are his team mates not hitting their shots because Melo isn't passing to them. Really not sure. It would be nice to have some consistent scorers to find out once and for all.

it is not a vicious circle unless you have weak coaching and a player with deeply ingrained bad habits.

the onus will always be on the guy who has the ball in his hands the most. you use the regular season to create cohesion even when teammates miss. that way they are mentally prepared every game, playoffs included. funny how melo can miss an average of 12 shots a game and is always allowed to shoot himself out of slumps instead of putting the burden on himself to do other things like rebound, defend, and make passes and plays.

here's what needs to happen: if melo is on with his shooting at the beginning of his shifts then let him shoot. if he is not on at the beginning of his shifts he must not be allowed to keep shooting and should focus on all the other parts of basketball. gotta have a point guard who will not defer to this guy's self-infatuation.

good post..

and for one year in denver, billups was that kind of player... too bad we didn't get billups as well... oh wait.............. I forgot, we did and then we amnestied him.... oh well..

Bonn1997 wrote:haha. The team scored like 85 points a game against Indiana. Has a player ever said "We need to put up more points to reach championship level"? It's not like Udrih is known for defense too. He's just saying what every player always says, even if it doesn't actually fit the team's situation.

Wow, I actually agree with this. It sounds like the typical answer a NBA player gives. Truth is NY played good defense but had a tough time scoring and stopping Hibbert.

Tyson better come ready to play because he was an embarrassment.

Knicksfan wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:haha. The team scored like 85 points a game against Indiana. Has a player ever said "We need to put up more points to reach championship level"? It's not like Udrih is known for defense too. He's just saying what every player always says, even if it doesn't actually fit the team's situation.

Wow, I actually agree with this. It sounds like the typical answer a NBA player gives. Truth is NY played good defense but had a tough time scoring and stopping Hibbert.

Tyson better come ready to play because he was an embarrassment.

Agree with both of you. Typical response you get from the casual media. Knicks don't rebound and defend when it was the offense that went down the shitter. And we'll the rebounding too. Defense was fine. Matter of fact Tyson did a better job on Hibbert than Miami did

gunsnewing wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:haha. The team scored like 85 points a game against Indiana. Has a player ever said "We need to put up more points to reach championship level"? It's not like Udrih is known for defense too. He's just saying what every player always says, even if it doesn't actually fit the team's situation.

Wow, I actually agree with this. It sounds like the typical answer a NBA player gives. Truth is NY played good defense but had a tough time scoring and stopping Hibbert.

Tyson better come ready to play because he was an embarrassment.

Agree with both of you. Typical response you get from the casual media. Knicks don't rebound and defend when it was the offense that went down the shitter. And we'll the rebounding too. Defense was fine. Matter of fact Tyson did a better job on Hibbert than Miami did

Tyson was absolutely abused by Hibbert. He couldn't have been much worse.