Sangfroid wrote:jrodmc wrote:Sangfroid wrote:jrodmc wrote:toad wrote:What you wrote wasnixluva wrote: I want to see AB helping to get this team playing more team oriented BB.
What's obvious is that you don't want to look at history, but would rather live in lala land where you imagine players dressed in orange and blue magically turn into things they never have been.
BINGO!!
Like JR being SMOTY. Like JR being OTY at anything besides backpage badlines.
Like Melo being a scoring champion! By golly, wasn't it just last year (practically to the day) that folks were whining about how he never did that?
Like washed up oldies like Sheed and KT turning games and road trips around!
Like an over the hill Euro PG like Prigs making people forget Linsanity for oh, say about 13 games in a row!
Like a group of injured elder folks contributing to being Division champs! Why, that sort of thing happens all the time, doesn't it?
Just imagine, just imagine...
BTW, very apropros to use LaLa...land...
Great points! After all, that is why we play the games...
Right! For AB to become a team BB player! That's why we play the games!
You have a point, I'm guessing.
My point being; Playing the games to see how far we can go.
Watching the games with the expectation that my team will win, not lose.
To see players rise to their best. Not shrink to their lesser selves.
To believe that every game my team plays, they are in it, and are going to win. The score always starts 0-0.
I have never played any game, expecting to lose. It may have turned out that way, but surely, it was not my intention.
Too much Kool-Aid?
Yeah thats too much Kool-Aid.
Even teams that know they will lose have fans....Bobcat fans dont have championship on their minds, they go for the entertainment, which really basketball is.
Personally I dont think the Knicks will do better than last season, mainly because i dont think the team improved.
Wont stop me from watching, and when good moments happen, I'll be happy for those.
But I've come to the resolve that having a lower expectation makes for a happier day.
Cant be disappointed when you didnt expect it from the start.
Rather than taking the loser mentality of lowered expectations to self masturbate yourself into feeling better, how about making a legit evaluation of the teams real capabilities. Why are Knicks fans afraid to be fans and to take a stand for their team? If this team actually exceeded media expectations last year then it is indeed possible for the team to do that again this year.
The Knicks have a better roster to start this year than they did to start last year. I like Sheed, but we pulled him off the couch. Love KT, but he really does have one foot in the NBA grave and the other on a banana peel, much like Kidd and Camby. We gave it a shot but it didn't work. They couldn't last. Brewer and White are gone and we didn't start the year with KMart on the roster. This year we're starting with Bargnani, MWP, Udrih, KMart, THJ, Tyler, CJ and the open 15th slot, in place of Kidd, Brewer, White, Cope, Novak, Sheed, KT and Camby. Only a really jaded fan would think that last years group of role players is better.
nixluva wrote:Rather than taking the loser mentality of lowered expectations to self masturbate yourself into feeling better, how about making a legit evaluation of the teams real capabilities. Why are Knicks fans afraid to be fans and to take a stand for their team? If this team actually exceeded media expectations last year then it is indeed possible for the team to do that again this year. The Knicks have a better roster to start this year than they did to start last year. I like Sheed, but we pulled him off the couch. Love KT, but he really does have one foot in the NBA grave and the other on a banana peel, much like Kidd and Camby. We gave it a shot but it didn't work. They couldn't last. Brewer and White are gone and we didn't start the year with KMart on the roster. This year we're starting with Bargnani, MWP, Udrih, KMart, THJ, Tyler, CJ and the open 15th slot, in place of Kidd, Brewer, White, Cope, Novak, Sheed, KT and Camby. Only a really jaded fan would think that last years group of role players is better.
I'd rather be in reality than delusion.
Personally the media doesnt dictate how i think, this teams underachieving tendencies persuades my thinking.
If you wanna think the Knicks are contenders, that your feeling, I dont share it.
But as a gambling man, I'd be willing to make a friendly wager.
Put your account on the line.....loser leaves the site.
For me...the Knicks wont win more than 54 & and wont get out of the second round.....if they do both...I walk away and martin deletes my account.
If they dont...you leave.
I'm pretty sure after all this chatter of what a fan supposed to be wont resist a chance to back up their belief.
I agree knickscity. I too was the fool once who lived in lala land and would play the rocky song "eye of th tiger" during the Ewing years when the Knicks were down. I convinced myself that it worked after Starks hit the buzzer 3 to beat Phoenix in early 96. Like Santa Claus and the tooth fairy I grew out of it. Same thing now. The nex 2yrs look bleak but I will still watch and root. At least with Bargs and udrih we might see some decent offensive ball not a 1 on 5 perimeter chuck fest
gunsnewing wrote:I agree knickscity. I too was the fool once who lived in lala land and would play the rocky song "eye of th tiger" during the Ewing years when the Knicks were down. I convinced myself that it worked after Starks hit the buzzer 3 to beat Phoenix in early 96. Like Santa Claus and the tooth fairy I grew out of it. Same thing now. The nex 2yrs look bleak but I will still watch and root. At least with Bargs and udrih we might see some decent offensive ball not a 1 on 5 perimeter chuck fest
For me, two things soured on me....
1)watching the Knicks make it to the finals...only to not repeat the trip and lose to the Pacers
2)Watching Riley walk away to Miami.
So watching the Knicks make a remarkable run to the finals a few years later was awesome because...it wasnt expected....then of course the terrible decade of basketball followed.
So yes, I root for a Knicks win above all, but my common sense and basketball knowledge knows this team isnt of a champions mold.
Yea if the 90s thought us anything it is that building a legit choir ship team isn't easy. Those 90s teams were phenomenal and extremely well coached and still came up short every year. This current team would lose in the 1st rd to those teams every time
knickscity wrote:nixluva wrote:Rather than taking the loser mentality of lowered expectations to self masturbate yourself into feeling better, how about making a legit evaluation of the teams real capabilities. Why are Knicks fans afraid to be fans and to take a stand for their team? If this team actually exceeded media expectations last year then it is indeed possible for the team to do that again this year. The Knicks have a better roster to start this year than they did to start last year. I like Sheed, but we pulled him off the couch. Love KT, but he really does have one foot in the NBA grave and the other on a banana peel, much like Kidd and Camby. We gave it a shot but it didn't work. They couldn't last. Brewer and White are gone and we didn't start the year with KMart on the roster. This year we're starting with Bargnani, MWP, Udrih, KMart, THJ, Tyler, CJ and the open 15th slot, in place of Kidd, Brewer, White, Cope, Novak, Sheed, KT and Camby. Only a really jaded fan would think that last years group of role players is better.
I'd rather be in reality than delusion.Personally the media doesnt dictate how i think, this teams underachieving tendencies persuades my thinking.
If you wanna think the Knicks are contenders, that your feeling, I dont share it.
But as a gambling man, I'd be willing to make a friendly wager.
Put your account on the line.....loser leaves the site.
For me...the Knicks wont win more than 54 & and wont get out of the second round.....if they do both...I walk away and martin deletes my account.
If they dont...you leave.
I'm pretty sure after all this chatter of what a fan supposed to be wont resist a chance to back up their belief.
Please! There's no need to get silly and talk about banishing when it's just as valid to just see who is right. I don't really agree with you that this team is underachieving. If everyone was healthy and they lost then yes that would be a valid point. The truth is this team was the #2 seed but they were not as strong health wise as we thought. Kidd was fading, JR had a knee that required surgery, Tyson was weak and not in peak form. We all know that Melo had a torn labrum. I don't think that is an excuse for losing, but it does explain some of the poor performance. What we want is to put a stronger, more versatile and younger team on the floor this season. I believe we'll have that.
No one looking at the players we replaced would say that the guys we had last year are better for this team than the guys we have this year. From top to bottom this team is improved over the team we started with last year.
AGE GP GS
1 Steve Novak 29 81 1 Andrea Bargnani 27
2 J.R. Smith 27 80 0 J.R. Smith 27
3 Pablo Prigioni 38 78 18 Pablo Prigioni 36
4 Jason Kidd 39 76 48 Beno Udrih 31
5 Raymond Felton 28 68 68 Raymond Felton 29
6 Carmelo Anthony 28 67 67 Carmelo Anthony 29
7 Tyson Chandler 30 66 66 Tyson Chandler 30
8 James White 30 57 16 Tim Hardaway, Jr. 21
9 Chris Copeland 28 56 13 Metta World Peace 33
10 Iman Shumpert 22 45 45 Iman Shumpert 23
11 Ronnie Brewer 27 46 34 C.J. Leslie 22
12 Kurt Thomas 40 39 17 Jeremy Tyler 22
13 Amar'e Stoudemire 30 29 0 Amar'e Stoudemire 30
14 Marcus Camby 38 24 4 Kenyon Martin 35
15 Rasheed Wallace 38 21 0
16 Kenyon Martin 35 18 11
nixluva wrote:knickscity wrote:nixluva wrote:Rather than taking the loser mentality of lowered expectations to self masturbate yourself into feeling better, how about making a legit evaluation of the teams real capabilities. Why are Knicks fans afraid to be fans and to take a stand for their team? If this team actually exceeded media expectations last year then it is indeed possible for the team to do that again this year. The Knicks have a better roster to start this year than they did to start last year. I like Sheed, but we pulled him off the couch. Love KT, but he really does have one foot in the NBA grave and the other on a banana peel, much like Kidd and Camby. We gave it a shot but it didn't work. They couldn't last. Brewer and White are gone and we didn't start the year with KMart on the roster. This year we're starting with Bargnani, MWP, Udrih, KMart, THJ, Tyler, CJ and the open 15th slot, in place of Kidd, Brewer, White, Cope, Novak, Sheed, KT and Camby. Only a really jaded fan would think that last years group of role players is better.
I'd rather be in reality than delusion.Personally the media doesnt dictate how i think, this teams underachieving tendencies persuades my thinking.
If you wanna think the Knicks are contenders, that your feeling, I dont share it.
But as a gambling man, I'd be willing to make a friendly wager.
Put your account on the line.....loser leaves the site.
For me...the Knicks wont win more than 54 & and wont get out of the second round.....if they do both...I walk away and martin deletes my account.
If they dont...you leave.
I'm pretty sure after all this chatter of what a fan supposed to be wont resist a chance to back up their belief.
Please! There's no need to get silly and talk about banishing when it's just as valid to just see who is right. I don't really agree with you that this team is underachieving. If everyone was healthy and they lost then yes that would be a valid point. The truth is this team was the #2 seed but they were not as strong health wise as we thought. Kidd was fading, JR had a knee that required surgery, Tyson was weak and not in peak form. We all know that Melo had a torn labrum. I don't think that is an excuse for losing, but it does explain some of the poor performance. What we want is to put a stronger, more versatile and younger team on the floor this season. I believe we'll have that.
No one looking at the players we replaced would say that the guys we had last year are better for this team than the guys we have this year. From top to bottom this team is improved over the team we started with last year.
AGE GP GS
1 Steve Novak 29 81 1 Andrea Bargnani 27
2 J.R. Smith 27 80 0 J.R. Smith 27
3 Pablo Prigioni 38 78 18 Pablo Prigioni 36
4 Jason Kidd 39 76 48 Beno Udrih 31
5 Raymond Felton 28 68 68 Raymond Felton 29
6 Carmelo Anthony 28 67 67 Carmelo Anthony 29
7 Tyson Chandler 30 66 66 Tyson Chandler 30
8 James White 30 57 16 Tim Hardaway, Jr. 21
9 Chris Copeland 28 56 13 Metta World Peace 33
10 Iman Shumpert 22 45 45 Iman Shumpert 23
11 Ronnie Brewer 27 46 34 C.J. Leslie 22
12 Kurt Thomas 40 39 17 Jeremy Tyler 22
13 Amar'e Stoudemire 30 29 0 Amar'e Stoudemire 30
14 Marcus Camby 38 24 4 Kenyon Martin 35
15 Rasheed Wallace 38 21 0
16 Kenyon Martin 35 18 11
Just admit you're scared....fear of backing up your belief is much worse than me thinking the team is worse.
I cant even taken you seriously from this point...not like I really did anyway.
The team overachieved to get the 2 seed, thats why they fell flat on their face in the playoffs.
BTW give me last years team with better minutes management over this crop shyt of unknowns all day every day.
Nix how do you explain leveling off at .500 after Dec 17th and the hot start? that Knicks finished hot while beating up on orlando, milwaukee and bobcats of the world as they rode Melo but we saw what trying to win the division led to in the playoffs
Was losing Rasheed Wallace and 40yr Jason Kidd going in the tank that demoralizing for a capped out team? Tyson was healthy as the defense and rebounding went to shot after Dec 17th. Hahn mentioned numerous times how Tyson was not hustling back on D. Our so called leader, champion and DPOY
The team just wasn't as good as when Kidd was fresh early and Melo was playing team ball. Eventually he reverted to old Melo and Woodson enabled him in getting that ever so important scoring title.
Also how do you explain getting our asses kicked in by Chicago and Indiana in the regular season? It was a prelude for what was to come in the playoffs
If the Knicks didn't have major cap space coming to them in 2 yrs I would understand the pessimism. Knicks probably won't win the championship this season. But they have enough talent to compete now and then an opportunity to set the team up for a long stretch.
There aren't many teams that can win a championship with 23mil in dead weight. Bargs is boom or bust in our situation its worth the shot.
newyorknewyork wrote:If the Knicks didn't have major cap space coming to them in 2 yrs I would understand the pessimism. Knicks probably won't win the championship this season. But they have enough talent to compete now and then an opportunity to set the team up for a long stretch.There aren't many teams that can win a championship with 23mil in dead weight. Bargs is boom or bust in our situation its worth the shot.
I agree. I've been optimistically looking forward to 2015 since December 17th 2012 when Lin lit us up for a 2nd time at the Garden which sent us in a downward spiral starting with Felton who started hot but was flustered while trying to outplay Lin
newyorknewyork wrote:If the Knicks didn't have major cap space coming to them in 2 yrs I would understand the pessimism. Knicks probably won't win the championship this season. But they have enough talent to compete now and then an opportunity to set the team up for a long stretch.There aren't many teams that can win a championship with 23mil in dead weight. Bargs is boom or bust in our situation its worth the shot.
Melo will likely opt out and take that 23 mil starting salary.... by 2015 he'll be making 25 mil.
Not much left when you have roster holds to account for.
gunsnewing wrote:Nix how do you explain leveling off at .500 after Dec 17th and the hot start? that Knicks finished hot while beating up on orlando, milwaukee and bobcats of the world as they rode Melo but we saw what trying to win the division led to in the playoffsWas losing Rasheed Wallace and 40yr Jason Kidd going in the tank that demoralizing for a capped out team? Tyson was healthy as the defense and rebounding went to shot after Dec 17th. Hahn mentioned numerous times how Tyson was not hustling back on D. Our so called leader, champion and DPOY
Tyson probably let reality sink in knowing he was the player interested in protecting the paint.
Can't imagine how he feels about not even having a backup center yet, which the team has talked about even before the draft.
nixluva wrote:Rather than taking the loser mentality of lowered expectations to self masturbate yourself into feeling better, how about making a legit evaluation of the teams real capabilities. Why are Knicks fans afraid to be fans and to take a stand for their team? If this team actually exceeded media expectations last year then it is indeed possible for the team to do that again this year.
The Knicks have a better roster to start this year than they did to start last year. I like Sheed, but we pulled him off the couch. Love KT, but he really does have one foot in the NBA grave and the other on a banana peel, much like Kidd and Camby. We gave it a shot but it didn't work. They couldn't last. Brewer and White are gone and we didn't start the year with KMart on the roster. This year we're starting with Bargnani, MWP, Udrih, KMart, THJ, Tyler, CJ and the open 15th slot, in place of Kidd, Brewer, White, Cope, Novak, Sheed, KT and Camby. Only a really jaded fan would think that last years group of role players is better.
actually that is what some of us are doing. But on the flipside, why masturbate yourself into lala land about things that history has proven rarely, if ever happen?
it's funny how every year the roster is better... whatever happened to the "ronnie brewer principle"?
knickscity wrote:nixluva wrote:Rather than taking the loser mentality of lowered expectations to self masturbate yourself into feeling better, how about making a legit evaluation of the teams real capabilities. Why are Knicks fans afraid to be fans and to take a stand for their team? If this team actually exceeded media expectations last year then it is indeed possible for the team to do that again this year. The Knicks have a better roster to start this year than they did to start last year. I like Sheed, but we pulled him off the couch. Love KT, but he really does have one foot in the NBA grave and the other on a banana peel, much like Kidd and Camby. We gave it a shot but it didn't work. They couldn't last. Brewer and White are gone and we didn't start the year with KMart on the roster. This year we're starting with Bargnani, MWP, Udrih, KMart, THJ, Tyler, CJ and the open 15th slot, in place of Kidd, Brewer, White, Cope, Novak, Sheed, KT and Camby. Only a really jaded fan would think that last years group of role players is better.
I'd rather be in reality than delusion.Personally the media doesnt dictate how i think, this teams underachieving tendencies persuades my thinking.
If you wanna think the Knicks are contenders, that your feeling, I dont share it.
But as a gambling man, I'd be willing to make a friendly wager.
Put your account on the line.....loser leaves the site.
For me...the Knicks wont win more than 54 & and wont get out of the second round.....if they do both...I walk away and martin deletes my account.
If they dont...you leave.
I'm pretty sure after all this chatter of what a fan supposed to be wont resist a chance to back up their belief.
JEEEEEZ... I hear ya... but you know he won't make that bet, because anyone, any fan, non fan, basketball fan, can look at a team or situation if they do so with an honest heart and see what a lot of us so called "detractors" or "haters" are seeing...
tkf wrote:knickscity wrote:nixluva wrote:Rather than taking the loser mentality of lowered expectations to self masturbate yourself into feeling better, how about making a legit evaluation of the teams real capabilities. Why are Knicks fans afraid to be fans and to take a stand for their team? If this team actually exceeded media expectations last year then it is indeed possible for the team to do that again this year. The Knicks have a better roster to start this year than they did to start last year. I like Sheed, but we pulled him off the couch. Love KT, but he really does have one foot in the NBA grave and the other on a banana peel, much like Kidd and Camby. We gave it a shot but it didn't work. They couldn't last. Brewer and White are gone and we didn't start the year with KMart on the roster. This year we're starting with Bargnani, MWP, Udrih, KMart, THJ, Tyler, CJ and the open 15th slot, in place of Kidd, Brewer, White, Cope, Novak, Sheed, KT and Camby. Only a really jaded fan would think that last years group of role players is better.
I'd rather be in reality than delusion.Personally the media doesnt dictate how i think, this teams underachieving tendencies persuades my thinking.
If you wanna think the Knicks are contenders, that your feeling, I dont share it.
But as a gambling man, I'd be willing to make a friendly wager.
Put your account on the line.....loser leaves the site.
For me...the Knicks wont win more than 54 & and wont get out of the second round.....if they do both...I walk away and martin deletes my account.
If they dont...you leave.
I'm pretty sure after all this chatter of what a fan supposed to be wont resist a chance to back up their belief.
JEEEEEZ... I hear ya... but you know he won't make that bet, because anyone, any fan, non fan, basketball fan, can look at a team or situation if they do so with an honest heart and see what a lot of us so called "detractors" or "haters" are seeing...
He won't make the bet because even he don't believe what he's trying to sell.
Personally I'm not falling for Isiahs Knicks twice.
Want me to cheer? Win, then I will.
This convo is like saying encore and the performers haven't got on the stage yet.
newyorknewyork wrote:If the Knicks didn't have major cap space coming to them in 2 yrs I would understand the pessimism. Knicks probably won't win the championship this season. But they have enough talent to compete now and then an opportunity to set the team up for a long stretch.There aren't many teams that can win a championship with 23mil in dead weight. Bargs is boom or bust in our situation its worth the shot.
Agree. The Knicks were very limited in what they could do and took a risk on Bargs. It could turn out great or it could just work out with more cap space in the future. I agree that they will be competitive and Bargs, Metta and Udrih are intriguing additions. Can't wait for the season to start. Hopefully the team gets off to another hot start and some of the negativity dies down.
It will die down if they sustain it. I just don't see that happening. Not with the improvements the Nyets Indy and bulls made. And of course the Heat. Never thought we'd be a perennial 1st and maybe 2nd rd team like the Hawks when we were tanking 2yrs to get Lebron and other stars inorder to see our 1st championship in 40yrs
gunsnewing wrote:It will die down if they sustain it. I just don't see that happening. Not with the improvements the Nyets Indy and bulls made. And of course the Heat. Never thought we'd be a perennial 1st and maybe 2nd rd team like the Hawks when we were tanking 2yrs to get Lebron and other stars inorder to see our 1st championship in 40yrs
The thing about the Nets is I can see them as a 4th of even a 5th seed....not too many regular season wins, but ready to kick the snot out of their first round matchup....their season is strictly to rest up for the postseason.
Either Indy or Chicago will be second with the loser of that being 3rd.
That doesnt make our road easy because if we dont have a better record than either of Indy or Chi...we'll have to go through them.
And it gets worse if we have to play BK first....with all the trash talking going back and forth that'll be interesting.
it'll really be interesting having to play them twice in the final two weeks of the season.
