Off Topic · Reality Check :More Americans are re-thinking 9/11 (page 1)

Also over the pass 12 yrs every civil and constitutional rights has been taken from Americans and done so in the name of security. Our right to due process , our freedom of speech, our rights to our personal affects, the right to privacy. It's all been taken as part of the global war on terror.

Are we more free ? When we re-think 9/11 means we have a right to question those who have taken our rights (starting with George Bush Jr- now Obama) how they have taken them and why.

"Every civil and constitutional right"?

playa2 wrote:No security worker or construction worker has ever been questioned even though the power was out all (no security cameras were working)weekend prior to the coming Tuesday Sept 11th.

Also over the pass 12 yrs every civil and constitutional rights has been taken from Americans and done so in the name of security. Our right to due process , our freedom of speech, our rights to our personal affects, the right to privacy. It's all been taken as part of the global war on terror.

Are we more free ? When we re-think 9/11 means we have a right to question those who have taken our rights (starting with George Bush Jr- now Obama) how they have taken them and why.

You can still get abortions, you can still euthanize the elderly or dying (in some states), you can still watch porn any time, anywhere, you can still get divorced for no reason. All those rights still seem to be right where they were pre-9-11, right?

Shoot, and now you can marry the same sex! And now you can get medical weed for you and your underage kids! You have even more "rights"!

We've been giving up our inalienable rights long before Bush and Obama, playa.

The chickens came home to roost on 9-11. You can't maintain a moral vacuum in the real world. Somebody's going to fill it.
Neutral Secular Humanism is a great theory. Unfortunately, it just doesn't work. Ask the French. Or the Cambodians.

jrodmc wrote:

playa2 wrote:No security worker or construction worker has ever been questioned even though the power was out all (no security cameras were working)weekend prior to the coming Tuesday Sept 11th.

Also over the pass 12 yrs every civil and constitutional rights has been taken from Americans and done so in the name of security. Our right to due process , our freedom of speech, our rights to our personal affects, the right to privacy. It's all been taken as part of the global war on terror.

Are we more free ? When we re-think 9/11 means we have a right to question those who have taken our rights (starting with George Bush Jr- now Obama) how they have taken them and why.

You can still get abortions, you can still euthanize the elderly or dying (in some states), you can still watch porn any time, anywhere, you can still get divorced for no reason. All those rights still seem to be right where they were pre-9-11, right?

Shoot, and now you can marry the same sex! And now you can get medical weed for you and your underage kids! You have even more "rights"!

We've been giving up our inalienable rights long before Bush and Obama, playa.

The chickens came home to roost on 9-11. You can't maintain a moral vacuum in the real world. Somebody's going to fill it.
Neutral Secular Humanism is a great theory. Unfortunately, it just doesn't work. Ask the French. Or the Cambodians.

playa2 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

playa2 wrote:No security worker or construction worker has ever been questioned even though the power was out all (no security cameras were working)weekend prior to the coming Tuesday Sept 11th.

Also over the pass 12 yrs every civil and constitutional rights has been taken from Americans and done so in the name of security. Our right to due process , our freedom of speech, our rights to our personal affects, the right to privacy. It's all been taken as part of the global war on terror.

Are we more free ? When we re-think 9/11 means we have a right to question those who have taken our rights (starting with George Bush Jr- now Obama) how they have taken them and why.

You can still get abortions, you can still euthanize the elderly or dying (in some states), you can still watch porn any time, anywhere, you can still get divorced for no reason. All those rights still seem to be right where they were pre-9-11, right?

Shoot, and now you can marry the same sex! And now you can get medical weed for you and your underage kids! You have even more "rights"!

We've been giving up our inalienable rights long before Bush and Obama, playa.

The chickens came home to roost on 9-11. You can't maintain a moral vacuum in the real world. Somebody's going to fill it.
Neutral Secular Humanism is a great theory. Unfortunately, it just doesn't work. Ask the French. Or the Cambodians.

No need to sweat me. I just gave you a brief excerpt of what Ben Swann says in the clip above.

Yeah, but Obama gave you the right to forced health care! The right to an internet connection and data plan in every hut and hovel! The right to better roads and overpasses! It's a zero sum "rights" game!

Shyt's gotta get done to support this whole infrastructure!

playa2 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

playa2 wrote:No security worker or construction worker has ever been questioned even though the power was out all (no security cameras were working)weekend prior to the coming Tuesday Sept 11th.

Also over the pass 12 yrs every civil and constitutional rights has been taken from Americans and done so in the name of security. Our right to due process , our freedom of speech, our rights to our personal affects, the right to privacy. It's all been taken as part of the global war on terror.

Are we more free ? When we re-think 9/11 means we have a right to question those who have taken our rights (starting with George Bush Jr- now Obama) how they have taken them and why.

You can still get abortions, you can still euthanize the elderly or dying (in some states), you can still watch porn any time, anywhere, you can still get divorced for no reason. All those rights still seem to be right where they were pre-9-11, right?

Shoot, and now you can marry the same sex! And now you can get medical weed for you and your underage kids! You have even more "rights"!

We've been giving up our inalienable rights long before Bush and Obama, playa.

The chickens came home to roost on 9-11. You can't maintain a moral vacuum in the real world. Somebody's going to fill it.
Neutral Secular Humanism is a great theory. Unfortunately, it just doesn't work. Ask the French. Or the Cambodians.

No need to sweat me. I just gave you a brief excerpt of what Ben Swann says in the clip above.

Bit naive to just believe everything that put infront of you isn't it? For one that preaches that citizens need to be informed, you kind of go along with the agenda you with to believe in.

You have stated you do your own "Research" but really you cut and paste. There are a lot of people that are educated and understand our gov't is not as pure as we'd like it to be, but also not every discrepency is a deliberate act of treason as many seem to want to think they are.

Fold those dollar bills anyway you want to tell the story.

Nalod wrote:
What can't you do that you used to do?

"Every civil and constitutional right"?

Talk about naive.

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:
What can't you do that you used to do?

"Every civil and constitutional right"?

Talk about naive.

Im quoteing Playa.

YOu saying Im naive?

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:
What can't you do that you used to do?
"Every civil and constitutional right"?

Talk about naive.

Im quoteing Playa.

YOu saying Im naive?

If you believe that nothing has changed and our rights aren't being systematically taken away from us, then yes, absolutely I believe your naive.

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:
What can't you do that you used to do?
"Every civil and constitutional right"?

Talk about naive.

Im quoteing Playa.

YOu saying Im naive?

If you believe that nothing has changed and our rights aren't being systematically taken away from us, then yes, absolutely I believe your naive.

Hey, shyt's gotta get done, ya know! I heard Crispus Attucks wasn't even really black!

jrodmc wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:
What can't you do that you used to do?
"Every civil and constitutional right"?

Talk about naive.

Im quoteing Playa.

YOu saying Im naive?

If you believe that nothing has changed and our rights aren't being systematically taken away from us, then yes, absolutely I believe your naive.

Hey, shyt's gotta get done, ya know! I heard Crispus Attucks wasn't even really black!

LOL. Had to Google that reference I'm embarrassed to say. I'm a history buff myself but haven't read up on the revolutionary war all that much, got me interested.

Speaking of history, maybe my favorite biography is being made into a movie "The rise of Theodore Roosevelt by Edmund Morris. Read it in my 20s, really amazing life Roosevelt had before he even became president. Scorcese is directing and DiCaprio is playing Roosevelt. Hope they can pull it off.

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:
What can't you do that you used to do?
"Every civil and constitutional right"?

Talk about naive.

Im quoteing Playa.

YOu saying Im naive?

If you believe that nothing has changed and our rights aren't being systematically taken away from us, then yes, absolutely I believe your naive.

Then say some and we can dicuss!

List just a few things lost. Im not saying I am 100% on point here, and we don't have to rewrite history in length but lets put some out there.

playa2 wrote:

Again Nalod tries to discuss a thread and talks silly about it.

This guy is telling you the truth and you talk like you work for the conspirators . Oops sorry wasn't supposed to blow your cover.

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:
What can't you do that you used to do?
"Every civil and constitutional right"?

Talk about naive.

Im quoteing Playa.

YOu saying Im naive?

If you believe that nothing has changed and our rights aren't being systematically taken away from us, then yes, absolutely I believe your naive.

Then say some and we can dicuss!

List just a few things lost. Im not saying I am 100% on point here, and we don't have to rewrite history in length but lets put some out there.

Cool Nalod. I'll post some articles over the weekend if you'd like, I'm pretty spent right now, but I can give you some examples
that you can look into yourself if you're so inclined.

We can start with the NDAA (National Defense Authorization Act) which states that the president has the right to detain indefinitely or assassinate an American anywhere in the world (disposition Matrix), without trial or charges on the mere suspicion of terrorism or giving material support.The evidence is presented to a secret court with secret laws that you don't know about until they're broken.

Mind you that the Occupy Movement was classified as a terrorist organization by the FBI. You might not agree with their politics but they were no terrorists. DHS actually coordinated the crackdown on protestors nationwide which resulted in some peaceful protestors being badly beaten (somewhere Jrod is smiling ). One Iraq war vet was hit in the face at close range with a tear gas canister and almost died

The Federal Restricted Buildings and Grounds Improvement Act now criminalizes some protests and makes it a felony now to protest near the president, vice president, or anybody else the secret service is protecting. Don't know if you remember the protest zones in the Bush years where protestors were sent far away from an event and penned up until it was over. so much for freedom of assembly. This law codifies that tactic. These kind of laws are being passed on the state level as well.

This administration has prosecuted more whistleblowers than all other presidents combined. If someone in government provides the media with evidence that something criminal is going on he or she could be charged with a felony. The crime itself will probably go unpunished but the whistleblower will go to jail, and some have.

They have also criminalized investigative reporting. They have gone after reporters and at least one is going on trial I believe for revealing classified info. Daniel Ellsberg who released the Pentagon Papers said that if he had done it today he would be in prison.

Try photographing a cop making an arrest and you will be likely arrested too even though the law says otherwise.

The NSA scandal gets worse by the week and the latest revelation is that they can now crack and track smartphones and follow where you have been among other info. We recently found out that they can crack any encryption. I would read Glenn Greenwald's columns in The Guardian if you haven't already. Explains it better than I ever could.

One of the architects of the Patriot Act who is as right wing as they come said this goes well beyond the letter of the law and it was never imagined that they would go this far.

I would also include the militarization of our police force, they look more like soldiers than cops, and they act more like soldiers than cops.

If you want to see how corporations will be able to legally dictate policy to our government check out the TPP trade pact being negotiated in secret. Even our lawmakers don't know what's in it but the reps from 400 major corporations do.

I'm sure I can find more examples for you but that should be enough to show you that the times are changing. There has been criminal, and unconstitutional behavior by our government in the past but now its being codified.

Like I said, I encourage you to look into it yourself, and I will be glad to find some articles over the weekend and we can talk some more if you like. They will be from "reputable" news sources and not some conspiracy website.

This is what I mean. Sure there are things we lose, but we also gain.

Back in the day persons of interest likley got their mail read. Then, land lines were tapped. Why would anyone expect cell be any different? E-mail any different than snail mail?

Corporations buying polititions? Profit over health? What else is new. Been that way forever. Don't make it right, but I don't see how "things" are different now. Are we more "informed" because of the new media age? What is the effect of the many unchecked and totally biased internet "news". Is it true? misinformation? Maybe, but its "free" to be written.

Protesters facing violence? Kent state? Montgomery Alabama? Chicago 1968? We slam our own people for the "Greater good". Is it "Good", not for this discussion (of course not, but bad things happen).

So my encrypted mesaged get made by the NSA? I lose privacy? The tools for communication have always been compromised. Thats my point. Technology has always improved communications but has it protected our privacy at any time in history? I think so.

No bill of rights in midevil times to protect couriers were there? Yes, we are a "beacon of light" and for the most part I don't believe we live in a totalitarian society. IN a land of many different people its even harder to maintain "freedom". It even gets ugly.

playa2 wrote:More rubbish from Nalod, why bother with him. He could care less if the military police invaded the home of a close relative of his and ruffed them up for nothing, he would just say it's always been this way. SMH rolling my eyes NAIVE NO , SHILL YES !

For nothing? cite an example? Was mistaken identity? an accident? Its a crime when it happens.

Your looking for a police state to take hold, and if that happens then you'd be correct.

Again Nalod tries to discuss a thread and talks silly about it.
This guy is telling you the truth and you talk like you work for the conspirators . Oops sorry wasn't supposed to blow your cover.

Really?

I would go over a point by point rebuttal, but its pretty clear where this is headed. Playa is right that I would be wasting my time.
You asked him what freedoms have been lost. You got one. You keep asking him this question, you got your answer. Things are different
this time, my response pointed out why.