Knicks · Knicks can WIN with Bargnani Starting at PF (page 2)
EnySpree wrote:I appreciate the breakdown of my post for conversation purposes. ... what I can not stand is actually quoting what I said and then saying I said something else. That is why this forum sucks sometimes. So now I gotta go back and say that's not what I said etc because you interpret what I say instead of taking what I actually said in black and white.So I have a response but can't go with it without being and Internet goon so this is what I came up with.
Why not just comment on what you feel I incorrectly interpreted.
Now this IS what I dont like about the forum.....poster getting defensive because someone commented on their post.
if I see something inaccurate...I'm gonna comment....if i agree...I'm gonna comment.
knickscity wrote:EnySpree wrote:I appreciate the breakdown of my post for conversation purposes. ... what I can not stand is actually quoting what I said and then saying I said something else. That is why this forum sucks sometimes. So now I gotta go back and say that's not what I said etc because you interpret what I say instead of taking what I actually said in black and white.So I have a response but can't go with it without being and Internet goon so this is what I came up with.
Why not just comment on what you feel I incorrectly interpreted.Now this IS what I dont like about the forum.....poster getting defensive because someone commented on their post.
if I see something inaccurate...I'm gonna comment....if i agree...I'm gonna comment.
I know, I saw that and was like, WTF.
Humans misinterpret things sometimes. It's not just this forum. It sounds more like Eny just hates human communication. Or maybe he just hasn't had his morning coffee yet!
Bonn1997 wrote:knickscity wrote:EnySpree wrote:I appreciate the breakdown of my post for conversation purposes. ... what I can not stand is actually quoting what I said and then saying I said something else. That is why this forum sucks sometimes. So now I gotta go back and say that's not what I said etc because you interpret what I say instead of taking what I actually said in black and white.So I have a response but can't go with it without being and Internet goon so this is what I came up with.
Why not just comment on what you feel I incorrectly interpreted.Now this IS what I dont like about the forum.....poster getting defensive because someone commented on their post.
if I see something inaccurate...I'm gonna comment....if i agree...I'm gonna comment.
I know, I saw that and was like, WTF.
Humans misinterpret things sometimes. It's not just this forum. It sounds more like Eny just hates human communication. Or maybe he just hasn't had his morning coffee yet!
Cant be the coffee, now he's worried about how someone will think of him by responding, yet responded anyway.
Anywho, not a biggie to me, people will agree with me or not, as long i can explain why i feel a certain way...I'm good.
Winning by gimmicks usually gets exposed in the playoffs by smart coaches. Playing Melo at PF is a gimmick.
knickscity wrote:I seriously doubt Woody is gonna kick off the season playing a non defending non rebounding, self admitted "lazy" player at PF.This is what Bargnani has been, but somehow the belief is "situation" will change the player.
It might...but I doubt it.
This.... and all the wishing, posting, hoping and dreaming won't change that...
Bonn1997 wrote:We only got 7 rpg last year from our starting PF. We're aiming for closer to 5 this year!
LOL
It's pointless talking with posters that can't read yet have huge opinions on things they added to another person's post.
Now I have to argue and restate what I said when I already posted it once?
Highly annoying. I been posting here and have tons of history with the guys here. So I can argue my points with no problem but I chose to be direct and argue sarcastically and be a troll on this subject of illiteracy and how is running rampant in 2013
EnySpree wrote:What annoys me is if someone says they like apples a know it all poster jumps in and says apples aren't the best fit it there because it's high in sugar. Whether it's true or not you are commenting on something that I didn't even say. Then I have to go back and restate that all I did was apples are good and nothing else.It's pointless talking with posters that can't read yet have huge opinions on things they added to another person's post.
Now I have to argue and restate what I said when I already posted it once?
Highly annoying. I been posting here and have tons of history with the guys here. So I can argue my points with no problem but I chose to be direct and argue sarcastically and be a troll on this subject of illiteracy and how is running rampant in 2013
Lol.
I dont care if you like apples, but dont compare the apple to exotic fruit, which you did by stating bargnani blocks a shot just like chandler.
Chandler doesnt need to block a shot to show he is a top defender in his position.
Sorry you have to defend yourself...but thats your problem, I didnt attack YOU like you're doing with me...I merely commented on your post.
You cats seriously need to grow a pair....it's a message board, you make a post...it will be commented on.
knickscity wrote:EnySpree wrote:I appreciate the breakdown of my post for conversation purposes. ... what I can not stand is actually quoting what I said and then saying I said something else. That is why this forum sucks sometimes. So now I gotta go back and say that's not what I said etc because you interpret what I say instead of taking what I actually said in black and white.So I have a response but can't go with it without being and Internet goon so this is what I came up with.
Why not just comment on what you feel I incorrectly interpreted.Now this IS what I dont like about the forum.....poster getting defensive because someone commented on their post.
if I see something inaccurate...I'm gonna comment....if i agree...I'm gonna comment.
How about this, Enyspree said this:
[Quote]It's also a fact that Bargnani can drop 30 plus on anyone in any given night
And then your response to his point is this:
[Quote]And no, Barganani CANNOT drop 30 a night, otherwise he would have came close to averaging 30 a night.....20 I would agree with, but 30? cant be serious.
Notice anything off here?
Bottom line the majority of the post was garbage,but nowhere did I diss the poster because of such.
EnySpree wrote:What annoys me is if someone says they like apples a know it all poster jumps in and says apples aren't the best fit it there because it's high in sugar. Whether it's true or not you are commenting on something that I didn't even say. Then I have to go back and restate that all I did was apples are good and nothing else.It's pointless talking with posters that can't read yet have huge opinions on things they added to another person's post.
Now I have to argue and restate what I said when I already posted it once?
Highly annoying. I been posting here and have tons of history with the guys here. So I can argue my points with no problem but I chose to be direct and argue sarcastically and be a troll on this subject of illiteracy and how is running rampant in 2013
An apple is a pomaceous fruit with approximately 95 calories and 19 grams of sugar.
There, I think I replied precisely to your content and did not introduce anything extraneous or off-topic.
The question of rebounds is a legit concern, however, let's also put that into perspective. Spurs were #20, Knicks were #26 and Heat were #30 in rebounds. Being a top rebounding team doesn't guarantee you will win. It's one aspect of the game. Of course you don't want to be bad at rebounding but you don't win the title on that aspect alone. The point of bringing in AB is to get him back to scoring the ball and making the team harder to defend. This team can't go further in the playoffs without more scoring variety.
Of course we'd love it if Bargnani was a 20/10 guy but then we'd have zero chance of getting him if he was. We're not getting optimal position players here. The Knicks have to figure out ways to win despite the flawed nature of their players. Last year they were pretty successful despite being a poor rebounding team. The same was true for the Spurs and Heat. Teams today have flaws. Fans here just don't like the flaws the Knicks have because traditionally rebounding is a core belief of what it takes to win. It's a tough sell. To make it work the Knicks have to be superior in other aspects of the game to make up for the weak rebounding. That's what the Spurs do and the Heat, who just happen to have played in the NBA Finals. To get to the Finals they had to beat the #1 and the #12 rebounding teams in the NBA, Indy and Memphis.
nixluva wrote:The important point is that AB is NOT a bad defender when it comes to guarding his man. There's statistical proof suggests that he's a very good man defender at the PF spot. What he doesn't do well is help defense, which is what Tyson and KMart are here for. If you start Bargnani with Tyson and Melo you can still let Melo get to post up cuz it won't really effect AB who can score form anywhere on the floor.
I dont think this should be Woody's approach, the guy that should be free to roam the floor if anyone should be Melo.
Bargnani doesnt hit the three ball as well as melo, even though I'm not a fan of him taking 6 a game either, but he hits them at a high rate.
Bargnani needs to have a defined role, and that role is low post, make the defense pay to free up the wing.
nixluva wrote:The question of rebounds is a legit concern, however, let's also put that into perspective. Spurs were #20, Knicks were #26 and Heat were #30 in rebounds. Being a top rebounding team doesn't guarantee you will win. It's one aspect of the game. Of course you don't want to be bad at rebounding but you don't win the title on that aspect alone. The point of bringing in AB is to get him back to scoring the ball and making the team harder to defend. This team can't go further in the playoffs without more scoring variety.
Being a poor rebounding team makes it harder to win, and the Spurs and Heat arent bad at all....they dont miss shots...thus less OFFENSIVE rebounds to get......
But in the regular season the Spurs were 4th in DEFENSIVE rebounds...the Knicks were 25....a major difference, and that 4th was fractions away from #1, and a hair above the Pacers.
Miami was middle of the pack on defensive boards, and thats expected with no center, but ironically ranked higher than Memphis.
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/team/_...
You dont find it odd that the worst shooting teams are the best rebounding ones by stats? Indy and Chi cant shoot to save their life.
But Miami and Spurs get the boards the need to because they have good rebounders on their teams.
The Spurs were tied with Indy for top 5 in defensive rebounding, so yes, once again, they get the boards they should.
Our defensive rebounding was awful in the regular and post season....that has to change.
nixluva wrote:Of course we'd love it if Bargnani was a 20/10 guy but then we'd have zero chance of getting him if he was. We're not getting optimal position players here. The Knicks have to figure out ways to win despite the flawed nature of their players. Last year they were pretty successful despite being a poor rebounding team. The same was true for the Spurs and Heat. Teams today have flaws. Fans here just don't like the flaws the Knicks have because traditionally rebounding is a core belief of what it takes to win. It's a tough sell. To make it work the Knicks have to be superior in other aspects of the game to make up for the weak rebounding. That's what the Spurs do and the Heat, who just happen to have played in the NBA Finals. To get to the Finals they had to beat the #1 and the #12 rebounding teams in the NBA, Indy and Memphis.
Yes, rebounding is a core element as I explained above, but elite defense is a paramount along with efficient scoring....something Miami and Spurs are very good at.
More defense if the offense is poor....see Bulls and Pacers.
I know folks look at the Mavs to show yes, an offensive minded team can do it...
But the year they won....
Top 10 in defensive rebounding....-1.7 margin total.....and also 6th best in opponents PPS....they did more than score.
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/team/_...
To get a true view of where we were....
Having Bargnani play PF won't make them significantly weaker as a rebounding team or as a defensive team, but it has the potential to make them stronger offensively. Melo and STAT aren't great defenders, but AB is actually better at guarding the PF spot in man to man defense than either of them. This is the point of this thread. If you start Bargnani he may not give you great rebounding but he should be able to score and hold his own defensively next to Tyson.
nixluva wrote:knickscity, The Knicks are a strange team in that they aren't really built to be a great defensive team but they can in fact play good defense when focused in. The Knicks weren't a bad defensive team in the playoffs. However, they had to address the offensive issues. One thing that definitely helps a defense is making shots. So for this team the answer is going to be an efficient and versatile offense. That's not to say that they're gonna just ignore rebounding but they can defend when they have to so the way to overcome the weak rebounding for this team is to become a more potent scoring team. That's not the traditional route, but it has been done before.Having Bargnani play PF won't make them significantly weaker as a rebounding team or as a defensive team, but it has the potential to make them stronger offensively. Melo and STAT aren't great defenders, but AB is actually better at guarding the PF spot in man to man defense than either of them. This is the point of this thread. If you start Bargnani he may not give you great rebounding but he should be able to score and hold his own defensively next to Tyson.
Disagree Knicks have components of great defense
Metta World Peace -defensive player of the year 1st team
Tyson Chandler DPOY all NBA 1 st team D
Kenyon Martin--all NBA 1st team D
We mix and match D with O.
nixluva wrote:knickscity, The Knicks are a strange team in that they aren't really built to be a great defensive team but they can in fact play good defense when focused in. The Knicks weren't a bad defensive team in the playoffs. However, they had to address the offensive issues. One thing that definitely helps a defense is making shots. So for this team the answer is going to be an efficient and versatile offense. That's not to say that they're gonna just ignore rebounding but they can defend when they have to so the way to overcome the weak rebounding for this team is to become a more potent scoring team. That's not the traditional route, but it has been done before.
I'd like to know when a team that was mediorce defending and sub par rebounding won a title? I'll wait for that.
Dont say Dallas, I already showed you that wasnt true in an above post.
Honestly the Knicks played two teams that cannot score well on initial possessions.
nixluva wrote:Having Bargnani play PF won't make them significantly weaker as a rebounding team or as a defensive team, but it has the potential to make them stronger offensively. Melo and STAT aren't great defenders, but AB is actually better at guarding the PF spot in man to man defense than either of them. This is the point of this thread. If you start Bargnani he may not give you great rebounding but he should be able to score and hold his own defensively next to Tyson.We'll be searching for a new coach after the first two months if Woody thinks like this.
I'll give Melo props for one thing...he defends the low post better than the wing, and I cant say bargnani can do better than someone who has already done it....Woody if he has sense wont take this thinking either.
Bargnani has a def rating of 111....sure it's a team stat, but I dont recall Bosh being that bad for his career there.
Melo's never been on a team with that high of a number and thats with a higher pace and his known laziness at times to defend.
Tyson is a roamer on defense, he not only anchors the paint helps on his own and will be seen helping guard pg's on the wing.
The best use of Bargnani is keep his minutes in rations....you earn more when you play well on both ends.
Woody aint got time to built an offensive team, not if he wants to win.
knickscity wrote:Firstly, I do want to commend you for being able to temper your expectations, it makes it easier to respond.nixluva wrote:The important point is that AB is NOT a bad defender when it comes to guarding his man. There's statistical proof suggests that he's a very good man defender at the PF spot. What he doesn't do well is help defense, which is what Tyson and KMart are here for. If you start Bargnani with Tyson and Melo you can still let Melo get to post up cuz it won't really effect AB who can score form anywhere on the floor.I dont think this should be Woody's approach, the guy that should be free to roam the floor if anyone should be Melo.
Bargnani doesnt hit the three ball as well as melo, even though I'm not a fan of him taking 6 a game either, but he hits them at a high rate.
Bargnani needs to have a defined role, and that role is low post, make the defense pay to free up the wing.
nixluva wrote:The question of rebounds is a legit concern, however, let's also put that into perspective. Spurs were #20, Knicks were #26 and Heat were #30 in rebounds. Being a top rebounding team doesn't guarantee you will win. It's one aspect of the game. Of course you don't want to be bad at rebounding but you don't win the title on that aspect alone. The point of bringing in AB is to get him back to scoring the ball and making the team harder to defend. This team can't go further in the playoffs without more scoring variety.Being a poor rebounding team makes it harder to win, and the Spurs and Heat arent bad at all....they dont miss shots...thus less OFFENSIVE rebounds to get......
But in the regular season the Spurs were 4th in DEFENSIVE rebounds...the Knicks were 25....a major difference, and that 4th was fractions away from #1, and a hair above the Pacers.
Miami was middle of the pack on defensive boards, and thats expected with no center, but ironically ranked higher than Memphis.
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/team/_...
You dont find it odd that the worst shooting teams are the best rebounding ones by stats? Indy and Chi cant shoot to save their life.
But Miami and Spurs get the boards the need to because they have good rebounders on their teams.
The Spurs were tied with Indy for top 5 in defensive rebounding, so yes, once again, they get the boards they should.
Our defensive rebounding was awful in the regular and post season....that has to change.
nixluva wrote:Of course we'd love it if Bargnani was a 20/10 guy but then we'd have zero chance of getting him if he was. We're not getting optimal position players here. The Knicks have to figure out ways to win despite the flawed nature of their players. Last year they were pretty successful despite being a poor rebounding team. The same was true for the Spurs and Heat. Teams today have flaws. Fans here just don't like the flaws the Knicks have because traditionally rebounding is a core belief of what it takes to win. It's a tough sell. To make it work the Knicks have to be superior in other aspects of the game to make up for the weak rebounding. That's what the Spurs do and the Heat, who just happen to have played in the NBA Finals. To get to the Finals they had to beat the #1 and the #12 rebounding teams in the NBA, Indy and Memphis.
Yes, rebounding is a core element as I explained above, but elite defense is a paramount along with efficient scoring....something Miami and Spurs are very good at.More defense if the offense is poor....see Bulls and Pacers.
I know folks look at the Mavs to show yes, an offensive minded team can do it...
But the year they won....
Top 10 in defensive rebounding....-1.7 margin total.....and also 6th best in opponents PPS....they did more than score.
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/team/_...
To get a true view of where we were....
Although, they ranked 25th in defensive rebounds per game they had the 4th best defensive rebounding percentage at .747. SO the kNicks were not a bad defensive rebounding team.