Knicks · Players Union Far Apart In Negotiations On HGH Testing. I'm not surprised What about you? Players don't want it Why? (page 1)

Papabear Says

NBA, Players Union Far Apart In Negotiations On HGH Testing
Sep 23, 2013 3:46 PM EDT Real GM

Officials from the NBA and players association met earlier this month in New York to discuss the league's HGH testing policy, but talks are far part.

"Nothing is anywhere near being agreed to," according to a person familiar with the talks.

The negotiations are ongoing, but the gap may be too wide to close in time for a policy to be in place in time for the start of the regular season.

As part of the 2011 collective bargaining agreement, the NBA and NBPA appointed a panel of experts to study the issue of HGH testing and report its findings. The panel's work is continuing.

Among the matters at issue is the proper establishment of baseline levels, the reliability of blood screening for HGH and disciplinary procedures, according to sources.

I don't thing LeBron James will like that new testing

Makes you wonder about these players. Lebron has been a freak since he was in high school and he looked like he was 30 years old back then, receding hairline and all.

they don't want it because there are many people on it maybe?

and i don't fault them for using it, every player will use, or be enhanced, in the future,

the problem we have as a society now is how to transition from performance drug use being against the rules to making it transparent and accepted,

the bag of cats that comes with something being against the rules is that a lot of people have to lie to make it happen,

it's these lies that we have to untangle first before we can move on, and these negotiations are a part of that process,

mira:

everyone has their natural level and their enhanced level, craig ehlo on hgh will never drop buckets like lebron,

so if we just get everyone to the green line, it doesn't really matter, and the overall quality of the product on the hardwoods improves:

Why would they agree to it? They have nothing to gain at all from it. Some of you need to go back to negotiation school! Why agree to stuff that has no benefit and can only get you in trouble?

Doping is happening in all professional sports. To think that it is not is extremely naive.

IronWillGiroud wrote:they don't want it because there are many people on it maybe?

and i don't fault them for using it, every player will use, or be enhanced, in the future,

the problem we have as a society now is how to transition from performance drug use being against the rules to making it transparent and accepted,

the bag of cats that comes with something being against the rules is that a lot of people have to lie to make it happen,

it's these lies that we have to untangle first before we can move on, and these negotiations are a part of that process,

mira:

everyone has their natural level and their enhanced level, craig ehlo on hgh will never drop buckets like lebron,

so if we just get everyone to the green line, it doesn't really matter, and the overall quality of the product on the hardwoods improves:

I can't believe you took the time to make a graph to convey such a simple idea, I don't think anyone needed that image to grasp what you were saying. Steroids are not only prohibited because of the way they affect performance, they are also banned because they cause unhealthy side effects in the long-run that the league does not want to be associated with. Allowing them opens up a can of worms in terms of legal liability.

EnySpree wrote:Makes you wonder about these players. Lebron has been a freak since he was in high school and he looked like he was 30 years old back then, receding hairline and all.

yeah. The very fact that they are fighting this leads me to think more than a few players are juicing.

DurzoBlint wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Makes you wonder about these players. Lebron has been a freak since he was in high school and he looked like he was 30 years old back then, receding hairline and all.

yeah. The very fact that they are fighting this leads me to think more than a few players are juicing.

Nutrition and new workout tech can only bring you so far (not sure it's really that far to begin with).

It's the oldest excuse in the book: I changed my diet and fitness routine. Check out Tennis player Novak Djokovic. Guy couldn't finish a match and would have almost asmatic like breathing problems if pushed hard, one day he announces he is eating gluten free and all of a sudden he is running everyone off the court and winning majors. Smells like blood doping (EPO like Armstrong) or some other steroid use for endurance.

I am sure it's in the NBA. Look at the difference in the players between the 80's, 90's, and now. Now more tractor trailers. Lebron is like a linebacker.

LeBron, Wade definitely look as though they are juiced up. I wouldn't doubt if Amare is juicing too may that is why he is breaking down. Sorry broke down.

Dagger wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:they don't want it because there are many people on it maybe?

and i don't fault them for using it, every player will use, or be enhanced, in the future,

the problem we have as a society now is how to transition from performance drug use being against the rules to making it transparent and accepted,

the bag of cats that comes with something being against the rules is that a lot of people have to lie to make it happen,

it's these lies that we have to untangle first before we can move on, and these negotiations are a part of that process,

mira:

everyone has their natural level and their enhanced level, craig ehlo on hgh will never drop buckets like lebron,

so if we just get everyone to the green line, it doesn't really matter, and the overall quality of the product on the hardwoods improves:

I can't believe you took the time to make a graph to convey such a simple idea, I don't think anyone needed that image to grasp what you were saying. Steroids are not only prohibited because of the way they affect performance, they are also banned because they cause unhealthy side effects in the long-run that the league does not want to be associated with. Allowing them opens up a can of worms in terms of legal liability.

take it easy, cool breeze;

maybe i need to draw another graph to convey another simple idea, an idea that you do not grasp yet:

performance enhancing drugs are only dangerous if misused, if applied correctly, with appropriate pre- and post- treatment, a man can use them well into old age and live a healthy, happy life;

another thing: pro athletes destroy themselves for a living to begin with, by your reasoning we should ban professional sports.

smackeddog wrote:Why would they agree to it? They have nothing to gain at all from it. Some of you need to go back to negotiation school! Why agree to stuff that has no benefit and can only get you in trouble?

Exactly. You never give up something without getting anything in return.

IronWillGiroud wrote:

Dagger wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:they don't want it because there are many people on it maybe?

and i don't fault them for using it, every player will use, or be enhanced, in the future,

the problem we have as a society now is how to transition from performance drug use being against the rules to making it transparent and accepted,

the bag of cats that comes with something being against the rules is that a lot of people have to lie to make it happen,

it's these lies that we have to untangle first before we can move on, and these negotiations are a part of that process,

mira:

everyone has their natural level and their enhanced level, craig ehlo on hgh will never drop buckets like lebron,

so if we just get everyone to the green line, it doesn't really matter, and the overall quality of the product on the hardwoods improves:

I can't believe you took the time to make a graph to convey such a simple idea, I don't think anyone needed that image to grasp what you were saying. Steroids are not only prohibited because of the way they affect performance, they are also banned because they cause unhealthy side effects in the long-run that the league does not want to be associated with. Allowing them opens up a can of worms in terms of legal liability.

take it easy, cool breeze;

maybe i need to draw another graph to convey another simple idea, an idea that you do not grasp yet:

performance enhancing drugs are only dangerous if misused, if applied correctly, with appropriate pre- and post- treatment, a man can use them well into old age and live a healthy, happy life;

another thing: pro athletes destroy themselves for a living to begin with, by your reasoning we should ban professional sports.

Who says they are only dangerous if misused, they have been proven to have degenerative effects on the body. I'm gonna take a stab in the dark and guess that you are defending steroids because maybe you use them when you do your squats or whatever....? Any drug that you unnecessarily put in your body that requires "appropriate pre- and post- treatment" just to be handled is probably not a good idea. Pro athletes do not destroy their bodies, they strengthen their bodies, reaching peak physical condition is not unhealthy. The only pro sport where I agree with you is football, and that is due to the predominantly violent nature of that specific sport. Plenty of athletes stay in good shape after their playing days are over, and many are the golden standard for healthy living. In regards to a sport like football that is especially physical, your argument of "they already damage themselves so why not do even more damaging things to their bodies" is still wrong. If you smoke everyday it doesn't meant that you should drink every night merely because your body is already in trouble...

Dagger wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:

Dagger wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:they don't want it because there are many people on it maybe?

and i don't fault them for using it, every player will use, or be enhanced, in the future,

the problem we have as a society now is how to transition from performance drug use being against the rules to making it transparent and accepted,

the bag of cats that comes with something being against the rules is that a lot of people have to lie to make it happen,

it's these lies that we have to untangle first before we can move on, and these negotiations are a part of that process,

mira:

everyone has their natural level and their enhanced level, craig ehlo on hgh will never drop buckets like lebron,

so if we just get everyone to the green line, it doesn't really matter, and the overall quality of the product on the hardwoods improves:

I can't believe you took the time to make a graph to convey such a simple idea, I don't think anyone needed that image to grasp what you were saying. Steroids are not only prohibited because of the way they affect performance, they are also banned because they cause unhealthy side effects in the long-run that the league does not want to be associated with. Allowing them opens up a can of worms in terms of legal liability.

take it easy, cool breeze;

maybe i need to draw another graph to convey another simple idea, an idea that you do not grasp yet:

performance enhancing drugs are only dangerous if misused, if applied correctly, with appropriate pre- and post- treatment, a man can use them well into old age and live a healthy, happy life;

another thing: pro athletes destroy themselves for a living to begin with, by your reasoning we should ban professional sports.

Who says they are only dangerous if misused, they have been proven to have degenerative effects on the body. I'm gonna take a stab in the dark and guess that you are defending steroids because maybe you use them when you do your squats or whatever....? Any drug that you unnecessarily put in your body that requires "appropriate pre- and post- treatment" just to be handled is probably not a good idea. Pro athletes do not destroy their bodies, they strengthen their bodies, reaching peak physical condition is not unhealthy. The only pro sport where I agree with you is football, and that is due to the predominantly violent nature of that specific sport. Plenty of athletes stay in good shape after their playing days are over, and many are the golden standard for healthy living. In regards to a sport like football that is especially physical, your argument of "they already damage themselves so why not do even more damaging things to their bodies" is still wrong. If you smoke everyday it doesn't meant that you should drink every night merely because your body is already in trouble...

IWG here:

That graph SMH. The effectiveness is in the brilliance of its simplicity lol

Dagger wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:

Dagger wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:they don't want it because there are many people on it maybe?

and i don't fault them for using it, every player will use, or be enhanced, in the future,

the problem we have as a society now is how to transition from performance drug use being against the rules to making it transparent and accepted,

the bag of cats that comes with something being against the rules is that a lot of people have to lie to make it happen,

it's these lies that we have to untangle first before we can move on, and these negotiations are a part of that process,

mira:

everyone has their natural level and their enhanced level, craig ehlo on hgh will never drop buckets like lebron,

so if we just get everyone to the green line, it doesn't really matter, and the overall quality of the product on the hardwoods improves:

I can't believe you took the time to make a graph to convey such a simple idea, I don't think anyone needed that image to grasp what you were saying. Steroids are not only prohibited because of the way they affect performance, they are also banned because they cause unhealthy side effects in the long-run that the league does not want to be associated with. Allowing them opens up a can of worms in terms of legal liability.

take it easy, cool breeze;

maybe i need to draw another graph to convey another simple idea, an idea that you do not grasp yet:

performance enhancing drugs are only dangerous if misused, if applied correctly, with appropriate pre- and post- treatment, a man can use them well into old age and live a healthy, happy life;

another thing: pro athletes destroy themselves for a living to begin with, by your reasoning we should ban professional sports.

Who says they are only dangerous if misused, they have been proven to have degenerative effects on the body. I'm gonna take a stab in the dark and guess that you are defending steroids because maybe you use them when you do your squats or whatever....?

i'm gonna stop you there and smack you around a little bit,

i am a proponent of drug-free, old-school training, (google: brooks kubik, dinosaur training)

and my lift stats are not impressive at all, they are as follows:

squat, 1rm 270 @ 220bw
deadlift, 1rm 340 @220bw
bench, 1rm 160 @220bw
overhead press, 1rm 120@220bw

you don't need to use steroids when you are a beginner, the gains come so rapidly with just a gallon of milk a day and hitting the heavy compound lifts,

steroids and performance enhancing drugs come into play when the athlete is already at or near his peak natural potential,

which is where pro ballers are, and i absolutely support performance enhancing drug use in professional sports because it will make for a better product on the field--- better entertainment value;

everyone loved it when guys were slugging 70 homers a year, but now you want to become a righteous prick.

save the "OH IT'S BAD FOR YOU" shit, get real, wake up;

you're clueless on steroids or performance enhancing drugs,

and you're clueless on drug use in general,

there is a time and place for everything,

for example: your time to discuss stuff you don't know anything about is not in this thread.

gunsnewing wrote:That graph SMH. The effectiveness is in the brilliance of its simplicity lol

the mark of great engineering, the mark of sophistication, the mark of everything that is good and worth a damn in this world is simplicity,

heavy squats, heavy deadlifts,

the bicycle is simple but is the single greatest invention in the history of man,

;

sometimes the simplest ideas are the most difficult to articulate;

if i learned anything in life it's to back up your points with lots of pictures and make things as simple and as clear as possible;

IronWillGiroud wrote:you're clueless on steroids or performance enhancing drugs,

and you're clueless on drug use in general,

there is a time and place for everything,

for example: your time to discuss stuff you don't know anything about is not in this thread.

It appears I've struck a nerve. Unsurprisingly, you have misinterpreted my point. I do not care whether these drugs are harmful to players or not, I am saying that the league does not want to be legally connected with any problems steroid use may create down the road for a player, who may then turn around and sue the league. I know taking anabolic steroids does not have horrific health consequences, but there are still some consequences to consider.

Based on your previous posts regarding science and health I can see that you are clearly not the person to have a realistic discussion with regarding such things. I get it, you think steroids will make the game more exciting, just because you support steroid use doesn't make it healthy all of the sudden. Then again I'm talking to someone that probably thinks squats can cure cancer, clearly the basic medical knowledge is just not there so why should I bother?

Don't worry, I probably won't bother responding to whatever ramblings you post in response to this, so feel free to keep going, I know a lost cause when I see one.

Dagger wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:you're clueless on steroids or performance enhancing drugs,

and you're clueless on drug use in general,

there is a time and place for everything,

for example: your time to discuss stuff you don't know anything about is not in this thread.

Unsurprisingly, you have misinterpreted my point. I do not care whether...harmful to players or not, I am saying that the league does not want to be legally connected with any problems steroid use may create

i already addressed that in op,

the bag of cats that comes with something being against the rules is that a lot of people have to lie to make it happen,

it's these lies that we have to untangle first before we can move on, and these negotiations are a part of that process,

you were so eager to jump on the simplicity of the little blue and green lines while the bag of cats was too complex,

i put that chart there for people like you

here i addressed it:

the problem we have as a society now is how to transition from performance drug use being against the rules to making it transparent and accepted,

Papabear Says

Drug enhancements may be wrong but I believe some sports players don't really care. Especially when it means more millions in their pockets and the difference in making or not making the team or fighting to be a top ten player. The NBA will fight this to the very end because they know that there are lots of users in the NBA. All that Sterns want to do is have test similar to baseball. If the NBA players continues to say no sooner or later something will break and someone will start talking and the sh!$ will hit the fan. All we need is a few of the top players to get rated out and the house of cards will come falling down. LeBron ??? I really don't know so I can't accuse him but that won't stop me from suspecting him as a user.