fishmike wrote:
Only way Knicks ever win big is if they can land a star PG whos star enough to take the ball out of Melo's hands and just make him a finisher. Hard to envision that trade with this roster. Time will tell
Didn't he have that in Denver, Billups ?
playa2 wrote:fishmike wrote:
Only way Knicks ever win big is if they can land a star PG whos star enough to take the ball out of Melo's hands and just make him a finisher. Hard to envision that trade with this roster. Time will tell
Didn't he have that in Denver, Billups ?
and NY
and Iverson too
He needs a new mindset, not a new teammate
What's the cap $58mil? If Melo makes on average $25mil per that leaves us with $33mil to fi the other 14 roster spots. Might be enough to land 1 more star at let's say $16mil. Or 2 good players at $8mil a piece. That leaves is with $17mil to til 12-13 roster spots.
Is that enough to truly compete for a ring or just enough to make the 2nd rd and get bounced by championship teams with multiple 2way stars?
The only way I see us contending for a championship is if we sign a superstar pg and take the ball and playmaking out of Melos hands. A cp3 type. Maybe Kyrie Irving develops as a floor general or rondo. Something about rondo that scares me though
Papabear wrote:Papabear SaysIf Melo leaves this summer and we get nothing back. What star who wants a ring is coming to New York. We've given up all of our draft picks and now we will be in a rebuilding mode. And you know that we ain't any good at rebuilding so we pay top dollar for a has been star and here we go again. The only way we can get another star will be to keep Melo. If he walks who do you think is coming to New York?
+1
The alpha dogs in the league are where they are. If LeQ or CP3 wanted NYC, they'd be here already. Melo is the franchise now.
BRIGGS wrote:He's worth the money.I hope that he considers giving us a house discount or atleast taking a frontloaded contract so we can have solid spending money the following year.
But lets get real here. Carmelo is a top 10 player who is a top 3 scorer capable of dominating NBA basketball games. Few players like him. You can look at his deficiencies but hes a worthy max player. Does he have 5 years left after this one? Well hes never been a run jump athlete so his knees should hold up and he seems to be a hard worker in the offseason--but there will be risk with the back end of that contract. If he gets it--they must give every dollar they can in year 1 and when they go back into free agency it will have to be a guy who is young.
+1000000
Apparently, he can rebound too. And lead the team in dimes in a few games. And jump over a few chairs on D every once in awhile.
A very limited player indeed.
fishmike wrote:I voted yes. His teams are always good for about 50 wins. He does a good job winning the winnable games. He will jack shots and sloth on defense and act immature but the wins are there so is value is real.I dont think he ever wins a title and probably doesnt make it past round 2 ever, his teams are just too easy for good teams to defend. Just pack the middle and let him take his 30 shots. He will score 40 at times and beat you, but for every one of those there's at least one 10-35 game thats unwinable. Cant win in the playoffs like that. But worth the money? Yes.
Only way Knicks ever win big is if they can land a star PG whos star enough to take the ball out of Melo's hands and just make him a finisher. Hard to envision that trade with this roster. Time will tell
Melo = Tyson? I don't see that happening consistently, no matter who you can dream of getting at PG.
gunsnewing wrote:What's the cap $58mil? If Melo makes on average $25mil per that leaves us with $33mil to fi the other 14 roster spots. Might be enough to land 1 more star at let's say $16mil. Or 2 good players at $8mil a piece. That leaves is with $17mil to til 12-13 roster spots. Is that enough to truly compete for a ring or just enough to make the 2nd rd and get bounced by championship teams with multiple 2way stars?
Is there anyone who competes for a title who stays at the cap? There is room to get some high price pieces if they want.
BRIGGS wrote:He's worth the money.I hope that he considers giving us a house discount or atleast taking a frontloaded contract so we can have solid spending money the following year.
But lets get real here. Carmelo is a top 10 player who is a top 3 scorer capable of dominating NBA basketball games. Few players like him. You can look at his deficiencies but hes a worthy max player. Does he have 5 years left after this one? Well hes never been a run jump athlete so his knees should hold up and he seems to be a hard worker in the offseason--but there will be risk with the back end of that contract. If he gets it--they must give every dollar they can in year 1 and when they go back into free agency it will have to be a guy who is young.
This. All of the talk about innefficiency is pointless. There arent many players better than him and we don't have a realistic shot at anyone who is better or close. What else is there to talk about? fantasy?
I can't really make up my mind to vote. I like him in the low 20's maybe 20-22 million but anything more than that I think will be too much tied up in him. For instance, I wouldn't mind if he just stayed at his current salary level instead of getting a pay raise, he's definitely worth the 21 million now I just don't want him to really go past that. A couple million off his salary can be a big improvement somewhere else on the roster.
Killa4luv wrote:BRIGGS wrote:He's worth the money.I hope that he considers giving us a house discount or atleast taking a frontloaded contract so we can have solid spending money the following year.
But lets get real here. Carmelo is a top 10 player who is a top 3 scorer capable of dominating NBA basketball games. Few players like him. You can look at his deficiencies but hes a worthy max player. Does he have 5 years left after this one? Well hes never been a run jump athlete so his knees should hold up and he seems to be a hard worker in the offseason--but there will be risk with the back end of that contract. If he gets it--they must give every dollar they can in year 1 and when they go back into free agency it will have to be a guy who is young.
This. All of the talk about innefficiency is pointless. There arent many players better than him and we don't have a realistic shot at anyone who is better or close. What else is there to talk about? fantasy?
I'm not too knowledgeable of the cap situation and the CBA and all that but I've read in several places that him getting the max money would hurt our chances of putting a good team around him. If that's true, that's a hell of a risk to take.
You can go over the cap to sign your own players. We don't have lottery picks. We can't sign free agents if we are called out. Only $3mil and vet min deals
gunsnewing wrote:You can go over the cap to sign your own players. We don't have lottery picks. We can't sign free agents if we are called out. Only $3mil and vet min deals
That's what S&Ts are for.
yellowboy90 wrote:gunsnewing wrote:You can go over the cap to sign your own players. We don't have lottery picks. We can't sign free agents if we are called out. Only $3mil and vet min deals
That's what S&Ts are for.
Are you sure? I didn't think there were many S & T options if you were over the cap in the new CBA
Bonn1997 wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:gunsnewing wrote:You can go over the cap to sign your own players. We don't have lottery picks. We can't sign free agents if we are called out. Only $3mil and vet min deals
That's what S&Ts are for.
Are you sure? I didn't think there were many S & T options if you were over the cap in the new CBA
pretty sure. You can ask Larry Coon to make sure.
yes, unless someone can tell me what the better alternative is
yellowboy90 wrote:gunsnewing wrote:You can go over the cap to sign your own players. We don't have lottery picks. We can't sign free agents if we are called out. Only $3mil and vet min deals
That's what S&Ts are for.
We would need to trade our young guys and whatever picks we have left
The better alternative is to spend money more wisely. That means no longer being PPG whores too. There's an infinite # of ways to do that. You can't list *the* better alternative. I've argued for using rather than ignoring the best available statistical models for a long time. With patience, there will be better options available like getting a 23 year old superstar scorer with many other talents for a much lower salary (Harden in Houston).
Bonn1997 wrote:The better alternative is to spend money more wisely. That means no longer being PPG whores too. There's an infinite # of ways to do that. You can't list *the* better alternative. I've argued for using rather than ignoring the best available statistical models for a long time. With patience, there will be better options available like getting a 23 year old superstar scorer with many other talents for a much lower salary (Harden in Houston).
Yeah but what's the more likely alternative? MSG needs someone who attracts the fans and sells tickets.
It would be absolutely stupid on the Knicks part to give Melo a Max deal at 30. He is already a below average shooter inefficient he will only get worse and worse from here on out.
Bonn1997 wrote:The better alternative is to spend money more wisely. That means no longer being PPG whores too. There's an infinite # of ways to do that. You can't list *the* better alternative. I've argued for using rather than ignoring the best available statistical models for a long time. With patience, there will be better options available like getting a 23 year old superstar scorer with many other talents for a much lower salary (Harden in Houston).
What makes that a better alternative? There is no proof that your way works. Time will tell for Houston and Harden
Bonn1997 wrote:playa2 wrote:fishmike wrote:
Only way Knicks ever win big is if they can land a star PG whos star enough to take the ball out of Melo's hands and just make him a finisher. Hard to envision that trade with this roster. Time will tell
Didn't he have that in Denver, Billups ?
and NY
and Iverson too
He needs a new mindset, not a new teammate
no playa and no bonn. Billups was never a great PG. Great defender, great clutch player, but he was never someone who could pick apart a defense and distribute.
Melo is never going to have a different mindset, and its silly to think after 10+ years thats changing. The only way he plays off the ball is if its in another great players hands. When Melo does that (Olympics) he's the player folks here wish he would be.
CP3. Maybe Rondo (won a title). Parker... that caliber.
And look at the ONLY year Melo was on a team there was a guy that took more shots than him. It was Iverson, and that was also Melo's BEST year shooting the ball. Its not really hard to to figure out (except for Melo)
Vmart wrote:It would be absolutely stupid on the Knicks part to give Melo a Max deal at 30. He is already a below average shooter inefficient he will only get worse and worse from here on out.
so long as the Knicks are winning 45+ games and making the playoffs its good *financial* move.
