Knicks · ESPN says Melo ranked #15... (page 20)

fishmike wrote:funny TFK... when I talk about Melo's inconsistant playoff performances I you quote me and say this. When I ack he had a monster year and the Knicks were a bunch of washed up old guys and Melo had a monster year I get "your better than this."

fish, this wasn't his best year, he had a better year than this... Monster year? I guess you and I have different standards..

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Very few players in the league could lead the Knicks to a 54 win season with chandler and JR are their next best players. Melo does need to step up in the playoffs but he has absolutely proven to be a star in this league. We will see if he can continue to improve. This is a big year as he should have a little more help with Bargnani.

YOU ARE forgetting the great start that guys like jason kidd had, JR had a career year, that helped the knicks get to 54 wins... this myth that carmelo dragged the knicks to 54 wins is hilarious...

And BTW chandler does have a ring, starting at center for DAllas...difference is, their franchise player is flat out better than ours... hands down..

Yes Kidd played well for 25 games and JR had his best year, but he is still JR and in the mist of a 82 game schedule where we were among the most injury plaqued teams in the league, Melo was still the driving force behind the success. The team was successful early on because they found a formula that worked which was a supporting cast that perfectly suited Melo. Guys able to knock down open shots and defend around him. That doesn't happen without him playing at a superstar level.

ok, so what you are saying is they stopped knocking down shots because he didn't play at that level in the playoffs right? well there you go..and this has been the story with him for the past 13 years.. even more reasons why we should shed this dog, quick....

Couldn't be more wrong...as i stated, injuries played a huge part, Melo included. I have no problem with you not believing he is a top 10 player, superstar whatever, but you are incapable of giving him credit where it is due and recognizing how good he really is. At minimum he is an all-star, one of the best scorers in the league, and a mvp candidate. Anything less is not realistic for a knowledgable basketball person to suggest.

give him credit for what? what did we accomplish? that is my first question

An allstar? well you don't need my approval for that, he is an all star.. so what

An MVP candidate? so were 13 other guys... but lets be real, he was as closer to the guy who finished last than he was to lebron or durant... but for shyts and gigles he received one first place vote.. new year, he is not longer an MVP candidate at this point.. lets move on.. next

One of the best scorers in the league? Ok that distinction can be given to quite a few players, but I will let you have that..

now with all of that said, I really am not impressed.. because in the end, that gets us no closer to where we want to be, and for 20+ mil I find that a terrible bargain...

We won the atlantic division and became relevant again. We are back to the caliber of team we were in the 90s. We won a playoff series. But if you believe we are only accomplishing something if we win the Eastern conf or win an NBA title then no we have no accomplished that. I'm not sure what you consider the minimum of an accomplishment, so i can't speak to that, but i consider relevance, winning the atlantic division, and winning a playoff series an accomplishment for last season.

relevant? really? how is that, no one has the knicks in the top 5, or not many. and carmelo was ranked 15th by ESPN, do you really think we are relevant?

We are back to the caliber of team we were in the 90s. We won a playoff series.

really? we are back to the caliber of team we were in the 90's? LOL.. I don't even think nixluva would agree with this post...

But if you believe we are only accomplishing something if we win the Eastern conf or win an NBA title then no we have no accomplished that.

as I said, we could have stood pat, had all our picks, flexibility, cap space, youth and still been a first round playoff team.. so yes, my expectations are higher as should yours... we have the most expensive frontcourt in the history of the NBA.. why in the heck should I not expect ECF or finals..

tell me what do you expect when you pay a premium for an item?

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Very few players in the league could lead the Knicks to a 54 win season with chandler and JR are their next best players. Melo does need to step up in the playoffs but he has absolutely proven to be a star in this league. We will see if he can continue to improve. This is a big year as he should have a little more help with Bargnani.

YOU ARE forgetting the great start that guys like jason kidd had, JR had a career year, that helped the knicks get to 54 wins... this myth that carmelo dragged the knicks to 54 wins is hilarious...

And BTW chandler does have a ring, starting at center for DAllas...difference is, their franchise player is flat out better than ours... hands down..

So you're saying Melo had nothing to do with those 54 wins (despite taking all those inefficient shots), it was JR's doing. So you genuinely believe that we won 54 game INSPITE of Melo?

It was weird how you disappeared during that win streak at the end of the season...

the one where Melo averaged 30points and 10 boards for the month of April but had no impact on the game? That month?

ok fish, I know you are better than this..... but I will play along.. you are right... without carmelo the knicks are 0-82

better than what? I hated the trade. I dont think Melo's game is good enough to grind out wins in the NBA playoffs. I think Melo shoots too much. I think Melo's career is an image of inconsistancy. I think Melo needs more talent that other 'stars' if he's going to compete fot a title. Dont call me a homer.

But I also think Melo had a great year last year and while he wasnt the best player in the league last year he was close to being an MVP because the Knicks are utter garbage without him dropping 30 a night.

Yea... they would go 0-82. And Ill play too dude... if they traded him for Gallo and Will Chandler ad picks they would go 82-0. However they would lose in the first round because Gallo cant stay on the court. So whoop de do. See? I can play too.

I dont need to you play. But maybe you should watch some games before judging his impact? Because its pretty obvious you dont, or maybe you watch and just dont see. I dont know.

Your posting is nothing better than that tool who posted how Melo is a natural leader and everyone can die if they dont recognize his greatness. 0-82 indeed. If you going pound us away with this constant drivel at least make it witty or entertaining. At this point you and Bonn post like and out of office response from an email... every new post just says they same thing. Yawn dude.

you are way too emotional man... it is simple fish, and I hope or thought you were better than that.. but I guess I am wrong.. but I will just post what you wrote..

I dont think Melo's game is good enough to grind out wins in the NBA playoffs. I think Melo shoots too much. I think Melo's career is an image of inconsistancy. I think Melo needs more talent that other 'stars' if he's going to compete fot a title.

ok fish, then we can stop right there.. with all of that said.. by you.. why would you want to give him 29 mil a year? It is already proven that you can field a playoff team that will accomplish the same thing without having to do that... but give yourself youth, flexibility and depth..... much easier to improve on that..

so what is it? does carmelo need more talent? does he need another star? which is it... because I can tell you that there are quite a few players in this league who make a lot less but will bring a more diverse game to the knicks that also need a star to win... so I ask, do you want to play carmelo 29 mil?

if you just want to argue that you think he is top 10.. well I won't bother, I agree with ESPN here...He isn't, and I have stated why..

weird.. I didnt realize Melo was making $29mm. Why not just make it $50mm to enhance your arguement? Sounds better.

Im not emotional at all. I havent gotten emotional about the Knicks since since I found out they traded Milos Vujacek.

do the math fish, if he resigns 5 years 130 mil.. in his last year fish he will make 29 mil...

tell me, what is the purpose of this type of argument you have yet given any compelling evidence as to why we should not only resign him, but what makes him top 10.. you yourself have given reasons to suggest that he isn't.

82games.com -> Knicks are better on the floor with him than without.

Melo finishes 3rd in MVP, and has as many votes as CP3 and Kobe combined.

Knicks win 54 games and the division and Melo has be far the highest PER on the team.

Not compelling indeed. I guess all the MVP voters are Melo homers also.

Are all the MVP voters wrong TFK? Is that not compelling enough? Because its not 13 guys. Its 2 guys. Lebron and Durant. After that Melo was waaaaaaaaay (all those a's are me being emotional lol) ahead of some of the NBA's best players.

You havent produced a shred of ay evidence compelling or otherwise. Its old.

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:funny TFK... when I talk about Melo's inconsistant playoff performances I you quote me and say this. When I ack he had a monster year and the Knicks were a bunch of washed up old guys and Melo had a monster year I get "your better than this."

fish, this wasn't his best year, he had a better year than this... Monster year? I guess you and I have different standards..

Your goose is cooked dude. Nothing to see here. Move along.

But but ESPN says he's only #15 Thats compelling!

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Very few players in the league could lead the Knicks to a 54 win season with chandler and JR are their next best players. Melo does need to step up in the playoffs but he has absolutely proven to be a star in this league. We will see if he can continue to improve. This is a big year as he should have a little more help with Bargnani.

YOU ARE forgetting the great start that guys like jason kidd had, JR had a career year, that helped the knicks get to 54 wins... this myth that carmelo dragged the knicks to 54 wins is hilarious...

And BTW chandler does have a ring, starting at center for DAllas...difference is, their franchise player is flat out better than ours... hands down..

Yes Kidd played well for 25 games and JR had his best year, but he is still JR and in the mist of a 82 game schedule where we were among the most injury plaqued teams in the league, Melo was still the driving force behind the success. The team was successful early on because they found a formula that worked which was a supporting cast that perfectly suited Melo. Guys able to knock down open shots and defend around him. That doesn't happen without him playing at a superstar level.

ok, so what you are saying is they stopped knocking down shots because he didn't play at that level in the playoffs right? well there you go..and this has been the story with him for the past 13 years.. even more reasons why we should shed this dog, quick....

Couldn't be more wrong...as i stated, injuries played a huge part, Melo included. I have no problem with you not believing he is a top 10 player, superstar whatever, but you are incapable of giving him credit where it is due and recognizing how good he really is. At minimum he is an all-star, one of the best scorers in the league, and a mvp candidate. Anything less is not realistic for a knowledgable basketball person to suggest.

give him credit for what? what did we accomplish? that is my first question

An allstar? well you don't need my approval for that, he is an all star.. so what

An MVP candidate? so were 13 other guys... but lets be real, he was as closer to the guy who finished last than he was to lebron or durant... but for shyts and gigles he received one first place vote.. new year, he is not longer an MVP candidate at this point.. lets move on.. next

One of the best scorers in the league? Ok that distinction can be given to quite a few players, but I will let you have that..

now with all of that said, I really am not impressed.. because in the end, that gets us no closer to where we want to be, and for 20+ mil I find that a terrible bargain...

We won the atlantic division and became relevant again. We are back to the caliber of team we were in the 90s. We won a playoff series. But if you believe we are only accomplishing something if we win the Eastern conf or win an NBA title then no we have no accomplished that. I'm not sure what you consider the minimum of an accomplishment, so i can't speak to that, but i consider relevance, winning the atlantic division, and winning a playoff series an accomplishment for last season.

relevant? really? how is that, no one has the knicks in the top 5, or not many. and carmelo was ranked 15th by ESPN, do you really think we are relevant?

We are back to the caliber of team we were in the 90s. We won a playoff series.

really? we are back to the caliber of team we were in the 90's? LOL.. I don't even think nixluva would agree with this post...

But if you believe we are only accomplishing something if we win the Eastern conf or win an NBA title then no we have no accomplished that.

as I said, we could have stood pat, had all our picks, flexibility, cap space, youth and still been a first round playoff team.. so yes, my expectations are higher as should yours... we have the most expensive frontcourt in the history of the NBA.. why in the heck should I not expect ECF or finals..

tell me what do you expect when you pay a premium for an item?

We were a .500 team with Amare playing at an MVP level lol. The likelihood of being a playoff team without Melo and without a healthy Amare is slim, you are better than that. Flexibility, fine, take your flexibility. Flexibility is not tangible. I am not basing my expectations on our payroll, our payroll has always been high and its not my money so i could care less. I base my expectations on where we are now vs. where we were as a franchise prior to Melo arriving. And as far as the 90s comparison, keep in mind we were in the finals twice, which we obviously don't compare to now, but were a 2nd round exit and 50+ win team most other years, which is what i am comparing to.

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:funny TFK... when I talk about Melo's inconsistant playoff performances I you quote me and say this. When I ack he had a monster year and the Knicks were a bunch of washed up old guys and Melo had a monster year I get "your better than this."

fish, this wasn't his best year, he had a better year than this... Monster year? I guess you and I have different standards..

clearly. Dude's an all star, finishes 3rd in MVP votess, WAY ahead of Chris Paul and Kobe, all star, team, wins division, 54 games, advances in playoffs... yea, it was a garbage year. If Chandler and JR dont suck Knicks are in the ECF plain and simple.

Your goose is cooked dude. Nothing to see here. Move along.

But but ESPN says he's only #15 Thats compelling!

Yeah and Gallo, Moz, and W Chandler are now franchise cornerstones, as are the draft picks we traded.

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:funny TFK... when I talk about Melo's inconsistant playoff performances I you quote me and say this. When I ack he had a monster year and the Knicks were a bunch of washed up old guys and Melo had a monster year I get "your better than this."

fish, this wasn't his best year, he had a better year than this... Monster year? I guess you and I have different standards..

clearly. Dude's an all star, finishes 3rd in MVP votess, WAY ahead of Chris Paul and Kobe, all star, team, wins division, 54 games, advances in playoffs... yea, it was a garbage year. If Chandler and JR dont suck Knicks are in the ECF plain and simple.

Your goose is cooked dude. Nothing to see here. Move along.

But but ESPN says he's only #15 Thats compelling!

Yeah and Gallo, Moz, and W Chandler are now franchise cornerstones, as are the draft picks we traded.

We would've won a championship with that core if we just had stayed the course...

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Very few players in the league could lead the Knicks to a 54 win season with chandler and JR are their next best players. Melo does need to step up in the playoffs but he has absolutely proven to be a star in this league. We will see if he can continue to improve. This is a big year as he should have a little more help with Bargnani.

YOU ARE forgetting the great start that guys like jason kidd had, JR had a career year, that helped the knicks get to 54 wins... this myth that carmelo dragged the knicks to 54 wins is hilarious...

And BTW chandler does have a ring, starting at center for DAllas...difference is, their franchise player is flat out better than ours... hands down..

So you're saying Melo had nothing to do with those 54 wins (despite taking all those inefficient shots), it was JR's doing. So you genuinely believe that we won 54 game INSPITE of Melo?

It was weird how you disappeared during that win streak at the end of the season...

the one where Melo averaged 30points and 10 boards for the month of April but had no impact on the game? That month?

ok fish, I know you are better than this..... but I will play along.. you are right... without carmelo the knicks are 0-82

better than what? I hated the trade. I dont think Melo's game is good enough to grind out wins in the NBA playoffs. I think Melo shoots too much. I think Melo's career is an image of inconsistancy. I think Melo needs more talent that other 'stars' if he's going to compete fot a title. Dont call me a homer.

But I also think Melo had a great year last year and while he wasnt the best player in the league last year he was close to being an MVP because the Knicks are utter garbage without him dropping 30 a night.

Yea... they would go 0-82. And Ill play too dude... if they traded him for Gallo and Will Chandler ad picks they would go 82-0. However they would lose in the first round because Gallo cant stay on the court. So whoop de do. See? I can play too.

I dont need to you play. But maybe you should watch some games before judging his impact? Because its pretty obvious you dont, or maybe you watch and just dont see. I dont know.

Your posting is nothing better than that tool who posted how Melo is a natural leader and everyone can die if they dont recognize his greatness. 0-82 indeed. If you going pound us away with this constant drivel at least make it witty or entertaining. At this point you and Bonn post like and out of office response from an email... every new post just says they same thing. Yawn dude.

you are way too emotional man... it is simple fish, and I hope or thought you were better than that.. but I guess I am wrong.. but I will just post what you wrote..

I dont think Melo's game is good enough to grind out wins in the NBA playoffs. I think Melo shoots too much. I think Melo's career is an image of inconsistancy. I think Melo needs more talent that other 'stars' if he's going to compete fot a title.

ok fish, then we can stop right there.. with all of that said.. by you.. why would you want to give him 29 mil a year? It is already proven that you can field a playoff team that will accomplish the same thing without having to do that... but give yourself youth, flexibility and depth..... much easier to improve on that..

so what is it? does carmelo need more talent? does he need another star? which is it... because I can tell you that there are quite a few players in this league who make a lot less but will bring a more diverse game to the knicks that also need a star to win... so I ask, do you want to play carmelo 29 mil?

if you just want to argue that you think he is top 10.. well I won't bother, I agree with ESPN here...He isn't, and I have stated why..

weird.. I didnt realize Melo was making $29mm. Why not just make it $50mm to enhance your arguement? Sounds better.

Im not emotional at all. I havent gotten emotional about the Knicks since since I found out they traded Milos Vujacek.

do the math fish, if he resigns 5 years 130 mil.. in his last year fish he will make 29 mil...

tell me, what is the purpose of this type of argument you have yet given any compelling evidence as to why we should not only resign him, but what makes him top 10.. you yourself have given reasons to suggest that he isn't.

lol... just cause your not compelled doesnt mean its not evidence. 82games.com

82games.com -> Knicks are better on the floor with him than without.

Melo finishes 3rd in MVP, and has as many votes as CP3 and Kobe combined.

Knicks win 54 games and the division and Melo has be far the highest PER on the team.

Not compelling indeed. I guess all the MVP voters are Melo homers also.

Are all the MVP voters wrong TFK? Is that not compelling enough? Because its not 13 guys. Its 2 guys. Lebron and Durant. After that Melo was waaaaaaaaay (all those a's are me being emotional lol) ahead of some of the NBA's best players.

You havent produced a shred of ay evidence compelling or otherwise. Its old.

again fish, that is not evidence to prove he is a top 10 player fish...

fish knicks were also better with Chandler on the court than off, and guess what, kidd as well, and guess what, novak, and felton as well...

Knicks win 54 games and the division and Melo has be far the highest PER on the team.

fish what are you trying to prove here? that he was the best player on a team you said would be a lottery team without him? LOL.. really? ok, you win... smh

Not compelling indeed. I guess all the MVP voters are Melo homers also.

fish, finishing a distant third does not make you a top 10 player in this league.... not unless he does this almost every year fish... again, you are so over the top now you are not making sense..

AS I stated last year and you can pull my post.. it was a 2 man MVP race.. after that from 3-13 its all the same buddy....

and not the mvp voters are not wrong fish.. they gave 99% of the first place votes to durant and lebron.... carmelo finishing waaaaaaaaay ahead of as you call them some of the NBA best players mean what fish... Do you in your heart feel carmelo is better than CP3? no you don't, so what was the point of that?

Just like I don't think DAvid lee is better than a lot of guys who didn't make that list...

if you want to take someone finishing 3rd, a distaaaaaaaaaaant third in an mvp race as justification to put them in your top 10.. then have at it.....

now take that same critiera and apply that to that whole list.. are those your top 13 players in the NBA?

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:funny TFK... when I talk about Melo's inconsistant playoff performances I you quote me and say this. When I ack he had a monster year and the Knicks were a bunch of washed up old guys and Melo had a monster year I get "your better than this."

fish, this wasn't his best year, he had a better year than this... Monster year? I guess you and I have different standards..

clearly. Dude's an all star, finishes 3rd in MVP votess, WAY ahead of Chris Paul and Kobe, all star, team, wins division, 54 games, advances in playoffs... yea, it was a garbage year. If Chandler and JR dont suck Knicks are in the ECF plain and simple.

Your goose is cooked dude. Nothing to see here. Move along.

But but ESPN says he's only #15 Thats compelling!

Yeah and Gallo, Moz, and W Chandler are now franchise cornerstones, as are the draft picks we traded.

their team won 57 games... so I guess they were..

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:funny TFK... when I talk about Melo's inconsistant playoff performances I you quote me and say this. When I ack he had a monster year and the Knicks were a bunch of washed up old guys and Melo had a monster year I get "your better than this."

fish, this wasn't his best year, he had a better year than this... Monster year? I guess you and I have different standards..

clearly. Dude's an all star, finishes 3rd in MVP votess, WAY ahead of Chris Paul and Kobe, all star, team, wins division, 54 games, advances in playoffs... yea, it was a garbage year. If Chandler and JR dont suck Knicks are in the ECF plain and simple.

Your goose is cooked dude. Nothing to see here. Move along.

But but ESPN says he's only #15 Thats compelling!

rofl.. ok fish, so he is now better than CP3, is that what you are saying..

OK, so lets use your logic.. I am going to have fun with this..

so in 2012 carmelo didn't make the list, so i guess he was still top 10? not according to your criteria, BTW, paul finished 3rd that year with more than 1 first place vote

2011.. no sight of melo on that list as well.. I do see guys like manu ginobili..I guess he was better than melo then as well..

again this is your criteria.... care to explain fish?

If Chandler and JR dont suck Knicks are in the ECF plain and simple.

wait, why should that matter? I thought it was melo that DRAAAAAAAAAGs them to 54 wins... LOL.. dude you are killing yourself here..

now you want to pin the blame on those guys?

carmelo sucked it up in 3 of the 6 games played.... please, stop it..

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:funny TFK... when I talk about Melo's inconsistant playoff performances I you quote me and say this. When I ack he had a monster year and the Knicks were a bunch of washed up old guys and Melo had a monster year I get "your better than this."

fish, this wasn't his best year, he had a better year than this... Monster year? I guess you and I have different standards..

clearly. Dude's an all star, finishes 3rd in MVP votess, WAY ahead of Chris Paul and Kobe, all star, team, wins division, 54 games, advances in playoffs... yea, it was a garbage year. If Chandler and JR dont suck Knicks are in the ECF plain and simple.

Your goose is cooked dude. Nothing to see here. Move along.

But but ESPN says he's only #15 Thats compelling!

Yeah and Gallo, Moz, and W Chandler are now franchise cornerstones, as are the draft picks we traded.

We would've won a championship with that core if we just had stayed the course...

blake is a beast, gladly trade carmelo for him..

IronWillGiroud wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Very few players in the league could lead the Knicks to a 54 win season with chandler and JR are their next best players. Melo does need to step up in the playoffs but he has absolutely proven to be a star in this league. We will see if he can continue to improve. This is a big year as he should have a little more help with Bargnani.

YOU ARE forgetting the great start that guys like jason kidd had, JR had a career year, that helped the knicks get to 54 wins... this myth that carmelo dragged the knicks to 54 wins is hilarious...

And BTW chandler does have a ring, starting at center for DAllas...difference is, their franchise player is flat out better than ours... hands down..

So you're saying Melo had nothing to do with those 54 wins (despite taking all those inefficient shots), it was JR's doing. So you genuinely believe that we won 54 game INSPITE of Melo?

It was weird how you disappeared during that win streak at the end of the season...

the one where Melo averaged 30points and 10 boards for the month of April but had no impact on the game? That month?

Yep- thank goodness we were able to overcome the detrimental effects of melo's 30pts and 10rebs to win all those games!

This is the biggest problem with a lot of the hardcore Melo supporters. You don't see any shades of gray. TKF simply disagreed with the claim that Melo carried the team to 54 wins. And you took that to mean he "had no impact at all on the game."

I have no issue with him thinking Melo is not a superstar/franchise player/etc, thats fine. Its the fact that he refers to him as a decent scorer, glenn robinson clone, best fit as a 6th man on a good team, etc. We can all agree to disagree on the star argument, but referring to him as anything less than what he is (great scorer, perennial all-star, mvp candidate), thats where the criticism comes from.

+1
And don't forget, 16th century game, HOF candidacy is a joke, I hate his face, we gave away a great team to get here, he loves money, blah blah blah.

Bonn, for someone who lives in the hard facts of numbers and esoteric high brow statistics, your self-elected position as Insane Melo Hate Clown Posse Defender is truly unbecoming.

I need an English translation of that last sentence

he's saying you ain't bout dat life

fishmike wrote:funny TFK... when I talk about Melo's inconsistant playoff performances I you quote me and say this. When I ack he had a monster year and the Knicks were a bunch of washed up old guys and Melo had a monster year I get "your better than this."

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:funny TFK... when I talk about Melo's inconsistant playoff performances I you quote me and say this. When I ack he had a monster year and the Knicks were a bunch of washed up old guys and Melo had a monster year I get "your better than this."

fish, this wasn't his best year, he had a better year than this... Monster year? I guess you and I have different standards..

clearly. Dude's an all star, finishes 3rd in MVP votess, WAY ahead of Chris Paul and Kobe, all star, team, wins division, 54 games, advances in playoffs... yea, it was a garbage year. If Chandler and JR dont suck Knicks are in the ECF plain and simple.

Your goose is cooked dude. Nothing to see here. Move along.

But but ESPN says he's only #15 Thats compelling!

Yeah and Gallo, Moz, and W Chandler are now franchise cornerstones, as are the draft picks we traded.

their team won 57 games... so I guess they were..

Haha, right.

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:funny TFK... when I talk about Melo's inconsistant playoff performances I you quote me and say this. When I ack he had a monster year and the Knicks were a bunch of washed up old guys and Melo had a monster year I get "your better than this."

Yeah, you see more gray than most on this board but you've also referred to him as a "damn good player" (I think you said that.) He's really just a damn good (volume) scorer though.

PRETTY MUCH Bonn and there are places for him in the NBA where he has value. just not as the best player on a team with championship aspirations making 20+ mil a year...

tkf wrote:when I speak about carmelo I do so objectively.

give him credit for what? what did we accomplish? that is my first question

caremlo has too limited of a game to be a #1 or even a good #2.. he honestly needs to make about 14 mil a year so you can surround him with players that can cover his flaws..

YOU ARE forgetting the great start that guys like jason kidd had, JR had a career year, that helped the knicks get to 54 wins...

And BTW chandler does have a ring, starting at center for DAllas...difference is, their franchise player is flat out better than ours... hands down..

other than this site, there aren't many who thinks he is a top 10 player... ESPN doesn't think so... and I think they were generous with 15..

but no my thought process is not to pay 29 mil to a clown is is not worth 29 mil... simple... and plain....

Actually I don't want a trade, I want him to opt out and go away.. that would be great for me...

I honestly with all my heart hopes he sours on NY this year, and kobe talks him into coming to the lakers where they can fight each other over the next few years for shots and win 46 games in the west, with another first round elimination...... that would be a win-win for me...

for me it is simple. I want the guy gone.. he is a bum, and he wants 29 mil.. LOL.. if you can't see that extending him will ruin the knicks long term, then really there is nothing more to discuss..

tkf wrote:when I speak about carmelo I do so objectively.

give him credit for what? what did we accomplish? that is my first question

caremlo has too limited of a game to be a #1 or even a good #2.. he honestly needs to make about 14 mil a year so you can surround him with players that can cover his flaws..

YOU ARE forgetting the great start that guys like jason kidd had, JR had a career year, that helped the knicks get to 54 wins...

And BTW chandler does have a ring, starting at center for DAllas...difference is, their franchise player is flat out better than ours... hands down..

other than this site, there aren't many who thinks he is a top 10 player... ESPN doesn't think so... and I think they were generous with 15..

but no my thought process is not to pay 29 mil to a clown is is not worth 29 mil... simple... and plain....

Actually I don't want a trade, I want him to opt out and go away.. that would be great for me...

I honestly with all my heart hopes he sours on NY this year, and kobe talks him into coming to the lakers where they can fight each other over the next few years for shots and win 46 games in the west, with another first round elimination...... that would be a win-win for me...

for me it is simple. I want the guy gone.. he is a bum, and he wants 29 mil.. LOL.. if you can't see that extending him will ruin the knicks long term, then really there is nothing more to discuss..

tkf wrote:when I speak about carmelo I do so objectively.

give him credit for what? what did we accomplish? that is my first question

caremlo has too limited of a game to be a #1 or even a good #2.. he honestly needs to make about 14 mil a year so you can surround him with players that can cover his flaws..

YOU ARE forgetting the great start that guys like jason kidd had, JR had a career year, that helped the knicks get to 54 wins...

And BTW chandler does have a ring, starting at center for DAllas...difference is, their franchise player is flat out better than ours... hands down..

other than this site, there aren't many who thinks he is a top 10 player... ESPN doesn't think so... and I think they were generous with 15..

but no my thought process is not to pay 29 mil to a clown is is not worth 29 mil... simple... and plain....

Actually I don't want a trade, I want him to opt out and go away.. that would be great for me...

I honestly with all my heart hopes he sours on NY this year, and kobe talks him into coming to the lakers where they can fight each other over the next few years for shots and win 46 games in the west, with another first round elimination...... that would be a win-win for me...

for me it is simple. I want the guy gone.. he is a bum, and he wants 29 mil.. LOL.. if you can't see that extending him will ruin the knicks long term, then really there is nothing more to discuss..

smackeddog wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Very few players in the league could lead the Knicks to a 54 win season with chandler and JR are their next best players. Melo does need to step up in the playoffs but he has absolutely proven to be a star in this league. We will see if he can continue to improve. This is a big year as he should have a little more help with Bargnani.

YOU ARE forgetting the great start that guys like jason kidd had, JR had a career year, that helped the knicks get to 54 wins... this myth that carmelo dragged the knicks to 54 wins is hilarious...

And BTW chandler does have a ring, starting at center for DAllas...difference is, their franchise player is flat out better than ours... hands down..

So you're saying Melo had nothing to do with those 54 wins (despite taking all those inefficient shots), it was JR's doing. So you genuinely believe that we won 54 game INSPITE of Melo?

It was weird how you disappeared during that win streak at the end of the season...

you're missing the point here... during the regular season you want to develop chemistry, cohesion, resilience. melo simply goes on a hot streak or two during the regular season, at least half the time against inferior opponents, and does so at the expense of the things i just listed that you need to have in order to become a true playoff team. he contributes virtually nothing to the building of a playoff team by anything he does during the regular season. this has been the pattern his entire pro career except maybe one season with billups.

it should not be surprising that when you face stiffer competition he is going to be exposed? he's a one-trick pony and that is just not going to be good enough, especially when you have defenders who are capable of guarding him one on one and drive him into even worse efficiency. he is not worth a penny over 14 million dollars but he is expecting twice that... and wants help to boot?!? you just can't make this shit up.