I don't believe that Woodson will be throwing players out there like he did last night. I think it was more about getting everyone a chance to play. I believe the majority of the minutes will go to 8-9 players. I don't mind Woodson playing most of the roster to keep some of the older vets from wearing out. Once the roles on this squad are more clearly defined I believe that this won't be an issue anymore.
NardDogNation wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Artest is trigger happy and like Melo over dribbles instead of getting the ball to the PG. Once he goes cold from 3 we will want to strangle him. Same way kidd went from hot to cold and Kidd is historically better 3pt shooter than Artest and that is not saying much.Hey if we want to go back to dumping the ball to Melo and moving out the way we might win 50games again beating up on the lower echelon teams. But we learned from last year that you can't sacrifice playoff indentity for regular season wins
I'm definitely not convinced of Metta being a meaningful player for us. From the time we got him, I thought that most of his utility came from being more of a sideshow than an actual basketball player. He's an adequate stopgap but we'll need a trade or signing to upgrade that position in the near future.
He brings toughness which we desperately needed but no one should expect him to be a major contributor offensively or expect that the Knicks will be ok with having Melo try to singlehandedly carry us offensively in the playoffs
We need Bargnani from 2yrs ago at some point in the season or we are toast again
For the record, if we start Felton, we CANNOT play Shumpert at the 2 guard spot. Felton is subpar at running an offense, which is why our offense worked best with an actual PG playing next to him (Prigioni). If we want to start Felton, we need to start Prigioni next to him. If we want to play a more conventional lineup, then we need to start Beno (who isn't much of an upgrade) over Felton and next to Shumpert.
At the 3 spot, I think we gotta go with Artest in order to allow Melo to play the 4. Why we are still trying to play him at SF position is beyond me because the 4 is clearly his best position. A guy like Metta allows us to keep Melo at this position, while also being able to switch Melo off of the more physical PF's in the league (e.g. David West, Zach Randolph, etc.). Longer-term though, we need to acquire Jeff Green who is the PERFECT fit next to Melo since he does all of the things Metta does but better and without the liability of Metta's age and low bball IQ.
gunsnewing wrote:NardDogNation wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Artest is trigger happy and like Melo over dribbles instead of getting the ball to the PG. Once he goes cold from 3 we will want to strangle him. Same way kidd went from hot to cold and Kidd is historically better 3pt shooter than Artest and that is not saying much.Hey if we want to go back to dumping the ball to Melo and moving out the way we might win 50games again beating up on the lower echelon teams. But we learned from last year that you can't sacrifice playoff indentity for regular season wins
I'm definitely not convinced of Metta being a meaningful player for us. From the time we got him, I thought that most of his utility came from being more of a sideshow than an actual basketball player. He's an adequate stopgap but we'll need a trade or signing to upgrade that position in the near future.
He brings toughness which we desperately needed but no one should expect him to be a major contributor offensively or expect that the Knicks will be ok with having Melo try to singlehandedly carry us offensively in the playoffs
We need Bargnani from 2yrs ago at some point in the season or we are toast again
I'm not disagreeing with you.
Like I said, Metta is an adequate stopgap but a liability, which will become evident as the season progresses. He's basically a physical Landry Fields with the propensity to do something stupid, which endears him to fans. There isn't much left in that tank of his and we'll need to upgrade the position if we expect to do anything in the playoffs.
Yea we agree. I also agree about Felton but I just resigned to the fact that he is the starting pg despite not being a great playmaker. I would start prigioni but he is 36. Everything about his team is clumsy from the owner to the 15th man on the bench(Chris Smith)
At the end of close games we aren't gonna stop anybody with our lack of defensive post play.
That being said in the last 5 min of a close games I'm putting Melo, Shumpert, JR, Tyson & Martin on the court
gunsnewing wrote:Yea we agree. I also agree about Felton but I just resigned to the fact that he is the starting pg despite not being a great playmaker. I would start prigioni but he is 36. Everything about his team is clumsy from the owner to the 15th man on the bench(Chris Smith)
I agree. I think it's why I'm starting to develop a wandering eye for the Bulls. But for the record, can we never refer to the unmentionable one known as JR Smith's brother? Why don't we just call him that, "the unmentionable one"? I just feel that a dude that bad of a ballplayer has no right to ever be mentioned on a basketball forum.
Woody said after last nights game he plans on cutting the rotation back to 9 players, maybe 10 at most.
gunsnewing wrote:Artest is trigger happy and like Melo over dribbles instead of getting the ball to the PG. Once he goes cold from 3 we will want to strangle him. Same way kidd went from hot to cold and Kidd is historically better 3pt shooter than Artest and that is not saying much.Hey if we want to go back to dumping the ball to Melo and moving out the way we might win 50games again beating up on the lower echelon teams. But we learned from last year that you can't sacrifice playoff indentity for regular season wins
THIS^^^^^^^
smackeddog wrote:Woody said after last nights game he plans on cutting the rotation back to 9 players, maybe 10 at most.
Whatever, who are those 9 or 10 players, who will you sacrifice, beno, kmart and THJ..
His toughest decision is going to be weather he plays Amare/kmart beno/pablo JR/Sump/THJ
Are we going small or big, base on this preseason i have no clue what we have other then a bunch of talented players who don't know there roles
playa2 wrote:At the end of close games we aren't gonna stop anybody with our lack of defensive post play.That being said in the last 5 min of a close games I'm putting Melo, Shumpert, JR, Tyson & Martin on the court
Not only is that team going to stop other teams from scoring but it is going to stop itself as well. I agree that we need to be able to stop teams during the last 5 minutes of a game but we also need to be able to score on the other end.
gunsnewing wrote:It's terrible until Bargnani has a 20pt game and everyone goes goo goo for gaga over it
I think that is the point. His job is to score on open opportunities given by melo. He has yet to do his job so as you said it is terrible until he does what he is there to do. If Bargs is not scoring then he is a big fat negative on the court.
dk7th wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Artest is trigger happy and like Melo over dribbles instead of getting the ball to the PG. Once he goes cold from 3 we will want to strangle him. Same way kidd went from hot to cold and Kidd is historically better 3pt shooter than Artest and that is not saying much.Hey if we want to go back to dumping the ball to Melo and moving out the way we might win 50games again beating up on the lower echelon teams. But we learned from last year that you can't sacrifice playoff indentity for regular season wins
THIS^^^^^^^
Yea me and you seem to be 2 of the few fans and media who actually see the importance of setting the team up for playoffs success. The coach making millions didnt even figure it out last year. But I think he has this year. I'm surprised fans and media haven't caught on yet. Every one seems to be content with featuring Melo or playing Melo at the 4 and somehow expect things to be magically different in this years playoffs. 50wins is nothing if you are going to force feed Melo in the regular season and get exposed in the playoffs. A 2 man game has to develop between Melo and Bargnani or they might as well pack it up. Someone needs to step up when tough playoff defenses key in on stopping Melo. Instead of shooting over the quadruple team someone has to step up. Shumpert is not there yet. Who knows if jr will contribute or be serving another suspension. Bargain is the only hope. He is a bust and takes Novaks spot on the end of the bench minus the 3ball pack it up
Clean wrote:gunsnewing wrote:It's terrible until Bargnani has a 20pt game and everyone goes goo goo for gaga over it
I think that is the point. His job is to score on open opportunities given by melo. He has yet to do his job so as you said it is terrible until he does what he is there to do. If Bargs is not scoring then he is a big fat negative on the court.
Yea I'm giving him more than 6 games though. Young player, traded for the first time, needs to find his role like Allan Houston had to. And he could still be getting over pneumonia which is why he looks slow and lethargic offensively. He didn't look this way when he put up 20 in Toronto or all the games he torched the Knicks
gunsnewing wrote:Clean wrote:gunsnewing wrote:It's terrible until Bargnani has a 20pt game and everyone goes goo goo for gaga over it
I think that is the point. His job is to score on open opportunities given by melo. He has yet to do his job so as you said it is terrible until he does what he is there to do. If Bargs is not scoring then he is a big fat negative on the court.
Yea I'm giving him more than 6 games though. Young player, traded for the first time, needs to find his role like Allan Houston had to. And he could still be getting over pneumonia which is why he looks slow and lethargic offensively. He didn't look this way when he put up 20 in Toronto or all the games he torched the Knicks
Then we agree on most points. The difference is I would have him come on slow from the bench. You would rather keep him in the starting lineup. If I thought his problems were chemistry I would agree with keeping him in the starting lineup. The problems he is having can be fixed while on the bench and not hurting the team so much. Him bricking open shots will not be fixed faster if he starts over him coming off the bench.
gunsnewing wrote:dk7th wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Artest is trigger happy and like Melo over dribbles instead of getting the ball to the PG. Once he goes cold from 3 we will want to strangle him. Same way kidd went from hot to cold and Kidd is historically better 3pt shooter than Artest and that is not saying much.Hey if we want to go back to dumping the ball to Melo and moving out the way we might win 50games again beating up on the lower echelon teams. But we learned from last year that you can't sacrifice playoff indentity for regular season wins
THIS^^^^^^^
Yea me and you seem to be 2 of the few fans and media who actually see the importance of setting the team up for playoffs success. The coach making millions didnt even figure it out last year. But I think he has this year. I'm surprised fans and media haven't caught on yet. Every one seems to be content with featuring Melo or playing Melo at the 4 and somehow expect things to be magically different in this years playoffs. 50wins is nothing if you are going to force feed Melo in the regular season and get exposed in the playoffs. A 2 man game has to develop between Melo and Bargnani or they might as well pack it up. Someone needs to step up when tough playoff defenses key in on stopping Melo. Instead of shooting over the quadruple team someone has to step up. Shumpert is not there yet. Who knows if jr will contribute or be serving another suspension. Bargain is the only hope. He is a bust and takes Novaks spot on the end of the bench minus the 3ball pack it up
Just wondering who you thought was going to step up last year. The only guy that did in my opinion was JR and he was bad in the playoffs.
jr is a number 3 or 4 the way I see it. The fact he was our #2 all year is an indication that we were not very good. The playoffs proved that. That's why the 54 regular season wins is nice but a little misleading when you consider how bad the east was and how many garbage teams like Milwaukee actually make the playoffs
gunsnewing wrote:jr is a number 3 or 4 the way I see it. The fact he was our #2 all year is an indication that we were not very good. The playoffs proved that. That's why the 54 regular season wins is nice but a little misleading when you consider how bad the east was and how many garbage teams like Milwaukee actually make the playoffs
don't think jr ever played without melo and melo without jr,
i wonder what jr would drop on any other team. my guess is not anything like here,
they are like peas in a pod, enabling each other's world views
gunsnewing wrote:dk7th wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Artest is trigger happy and like Melo over dribbles instead of getting the ball to the PG. Once he goes cold from 3 we will want to strangle him. Same way kidd went from hot to cold and Kidd is historically better 3pt shooter than Artest and that is not saying much.Hey if we want to go back to dumping the ball to Melo and moving out the way we might win 50games again beating up on the lower echelon teams. But we learned from last year that you can't sacrifice playoff indentity for regular season wins
THIS^^^^^^^
Yea me and you seem to be 2 of the few fans and media who actually see the importance of setting the team up for playoffs success. The coach making millions didnt even figure it out last year. But I think he has this year. I'm surprised fans and media haven't caught on yet. Every one seems to be content with featuring Melo or playing Melo at the 4 and somehow expect things to be magically different in this years playoffs. 50wins is nothing if you are going to force feed Melo in the regular season and get exposed in the playoffs. A 2 man game has to develop between Melo and Bargnani or they might as well pack it up. Someone needs to step up when tough playoff defenses key in on stopping Melo. Instead of shooting over the quadruple team someone has to step up. Shumpert is not there yet. Who knows if jr will contribute or be serving another suspension. Bargain is the only hope. He is a bust and takes Novaks spot on the end of the bench minus the 3ball pack it up
every time i have said it's not THAT you win but HOW you win that matters it seemed to be dismissed. if you are not viewing the games with the question "does this look like a legitimate playoff team?" in mind then you will be easily fooled by the glitter.
a team needs to look cohesive, focussed, adaptable, resilient and it is up to the coach to figure out which lineup can win the war of attrition and stifling that the playoffs are. woodson does not appear to get that and it does not help that the roster remains clumsy.
felton and melo are a problem. both are tweeners.
one needs help orchestrating and the other is incapable of developing an overall game and is far from what walt frazier call "the complete player."
Hopefully Bargnani steps up so we don't have to over rely on JR again and just take whatever he gives us on a good day. Keep him on a short leash when he is off. Last year we didn't have the depth to do thT this year we do. It's up to woodson
gunsnewing wrote:dk7th wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Artest is trigger happy and like Melo over dribbles instead of getting the ball to the PG. Once he goes cold from 3 we will want to strangle him. Same way kidd went from hot to cold and Kidd is historically better 3pt shooter than Artest and that is not saying much.Hey if we want to go back to dumping the ball to Melo and moving out the way we might win 50games again beating up on the lower echelon teams. But we learned from last year that you can't sacrifice playoff indentity for regular season wins
THIS^^^^^^^
Yea me and you seem to be 2 of the few fans and media who actually see the importance of setting the team up for playoffs success. The coach making millions didnt even figure it out last year. But I think he has this year. I'm surprised fans and media haven't caught on yet. Every one seems to be content with featuring Melo or playing Melo at the 4 and somehow expect things to be magically different in this years playoffs. 50wins is nothing if you are going to force feed Melo in the regular season and get exposed in the playoffs. A 2 man game has to develop between Melo and Bargnani or they might as well pack it up. Someone needs to step up when tough playoff defenses key in on stopping Melo. Instead of shooting over the quadruple team someone has to step up. Shumpert is not there yet. Who knows if jr will contribute or be serving another suspension. Bargain is the only hope. He is a bust and takes Novaks spot on the end of the bench minus the 3ball pack it up
Playing Melo at the 4 isn't why we lost in the 2nd round. Playing Melo at the 4 is the only reason we had the no.2 seed and made the 2nd round. He is our best player and you have to put your best player in the best situation to succeed, which is at the 4. I do agree that we need another player for him to develop a two man game with. Unfortunately, that person isn't on this team and I don't k know if we'll be able to acquire him (I.e. Rajon Rondo).
