Just watching tape again. Melo looks very uncomfortable w bargs. Melo was a superstar last year at 4 and we. Won 54 games. Must go back to this. Either move attest or jr into sl move bargs back to 2 unit and play Brno as the 2unit. Sg. Not ph. He makes too many mistakes. He's a good player but he needs to be with Pablo or ray. Carmelo in unit 1 as a 4. Opens up everything. Please consider
I think melo spent the offseason slimming down and getting ready to play the 3. I think Woodson starts out big and may go back to melo at the 4.
BRIGGS wrote:Just watching tape again. Melo looks very uncomfortable w bargs. Melo was a superstar last year at 4 and we. Won 54 games. Must go back to this. Either move attest or jr into sl move bargs back to 2 unit and play Brno as the 2unit. Sg. Not ph. He makes too many mistakes. He's a good player but he needs to be with Pablo or ray. Carmelo in unit 1 as a 4. Opens up everything. Please consider
I don't think Melo's success last year has as much to do with the position he played, but the spacing he had being surrounded by three other three point shooters. The bottom line is that Bargs has to start hitting shots. Also, the ball movement hasn't been as crisp as it was at the start of last season. I'm seeing guy stake a lot of quick jumpers.
Agreed BRIGGS, the team was very successful going small ball last year, and this summer's acquisitions only add to that:
Crowded backcourt - let JR or Shump play minutes at the 3, let Felton/Prigs/Beno alternate in the 2 PG lineup, get Metta into the game and let him switch with Melo on D to avoid some of that pounding down low, play Bargs at C for limited stretches when Tyson's out - maybe when KMart is playing along side him at the 4?
Team seemed to have found a nice identity last year. Having the ability to go big is great for certain matchups, but no reason to go back just for the sake of being traditional.
I am worried about Melo's shoulder. I know he has rehabbed it but my personal experience has been that it comes and goes with that injury unless you have surgery. It seems like playing him at the four might increase the chance of aggravating it.
How is this different from the rotation thread? Stop the overreaction.
yellowboy90 wrote:How is this different from the rotation thread? Stop the overreaction.
LoLz 
bargs need to bang the second unit,
too soft on d, ain't about dat dat,
mwp @ 3 gives you the filthy muscle and you scare people,
bargs comes in because it takes him extra time to warm up his brain, bargs comes in and he takes a jog all over the other bums--- drops buckets,
this is the only way
Melo needs to play the 4......
..........off the bench!!!!!!
So:
Melo can't play with Amare
Melo can't play with Bargnani
Who's next Artest?
gunsnewing wrote:Melo needs to play the 4................off the bench!!!!!!
So:
Melo can't play with Amare
Melo can't play with Bargnani
Who's next Artest?
People say Melo needs another big scorer but he can't play well with other players who need the ball.
Yea that's interesting. He plays better with James White and Ronnie brewer. And now maybe Artest. Then he singlehandedly carries us to 50wins and we get smoked again in the playoffs.
Melo needs a 2nd gun. It's on Woodson to make it worth between him and bargnani
I think Melo and Woodson realize this and that's why Bargnani is in there
gunsnewing wrote:Yea that's interesting. He plays better with James White and Ronnie brewer. And now maybe Artest. Then he singlehandedly carries us to 50wins and we get smoked again in the playoffs.Melo needs a 2nd gun. It's on Woodson to make it worth between him and bargnani
I think Melo and Woodson realize this and that's why Bargnani is in there
Well Melo needs to be the 2nd gun and to accept that role.
But that isn't happening any time soon obviously.
It doesn't matter. I can be the top gun with a really good 2nd vice versa whatever. The bottom line is he hasn't had that player. Amare is done. Hopefully Bargnani plays well enough offensively
Melo still is pretty much the 4. Only difference is he is guarding 3s which will be better for his long term health. Bargnani plays more of a 3 on offense than Brewer ever did. Melo is still in the same role as last season.
Bonn1997 wrote:What about Iverson?
At the time I thought it was crazy to pair Melo up with Iverson but they both played well. That pair wasn't winning a ring in the west though
Please cut Chris Smith
The whole episode creates a rain cloud over Steve Mills and the upcoming season
When it rains, it pours.
gunsnewing wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:What about Iverson?
At the time I thought it was crazy to pair Melo up with Iverson but they both played well. That pair wasn't winning a ring in the west though
His efficiency wasn't really any different then though. His FG% was higher because he took fewer 3s and more 2s but that's the only change.
People talk like he's had the misfortune of being on bad teams but he's had his share of all-star, Olympian, and even MVP candidate teammates.
BRIGGS wrote:Just watching tape again. Melo looks very uncomfortable w bargs. Melo was a superstar last year at 4 and we. Won 54 games. Must go back to this. Either move attest or jr into sl move bargs back to 2 unit and play Brno as the 2unit. Sg. Not ph. He makes too many mistakes. He's a good player but he needs to be with Pablo or ray. Carmelo in unit 1 as a 4. Opens up everything. Please consider
Ive agreed with this from day 1 and heres why:
- knicks had lots of success with Melo at the 4..the formula WORKS!
- i have concerns with playing too many "weak" defensive players (melo-3/bargs-4). instead start artest for some toughness and balance
- Bargs has to earn it with EFFORT (which i dont see). it makes sense to play bargs with melo IF hes HITTING LONG distance shots...but hes not
- less pressure on bargs in the 2nd unit. he strikes me as a mentally fragile guy who needs coddling. dont want the garden booing him already
callmened wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Just watching tape again. Melo looks very uncomfortable w bargs. Melo was a superstar last year at 4 and we. Won 54 games. Must go back to this. Either move attest or jr into sl move bargs back to 2 unit and play Brno as the 2unit. Sg. Not ph. He makes too many mistakes. He's a good player but he needs to be with Pablo or ray. Carmelo in unit 1 as a 4. Opens up everything. Please consider
Ive agreed with this from day 1 and heres why:
- knicks had lots of success with Melo at the 4..the formula WORKS!
- i have concerns with playing too many "weak" defensive players (melo-3/bargs-4). instead start artest for some toughness and balance
- Bargs has to earn it with EFFORT (which i dont see). it makes sense to play bargs with melo IF hes HITTING LONG distance shots...but hes not
- less pressure on bargs in the 2nd unit. he strikes me as a mentally fragile guy who needs coddling. dont want the garden booing him already
Good point ned. This is setting up to be a disaster w bargs and the fans Moving him to unit two and taking some pressure off to let him regain some form at pace is smart. I'm not killing bargs but lets go with won us 54 games and then lets get better w a better second unit. This team can go in different directions. It's all chemistry. Also not mentioned is how bad our ph play was this pre season. A combination of injury from Felton and the change in sl has not helped. I would say the number 1reason we got off so good last year was j Kidd. We don't have that so we don't need negatives. We don't need Chris smith. Bargs should be given time in unit 2to come back. We got Ron attest. He can help us start games w an edge. He has to watch his own shot selection and if he can do that I think that's our best bet. We don't want bargs being booed by game 3.
BRIGGS wrote:callmened wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Just watching tape again. Melo looks very uncomfortable w bargs. Melo was a superstar last year at 4 and we. Won 54 games. Must go back to this. Either move attest or jr into sl move bargs back to 2 unit and play Brno as the 2unit. Sg. Not ph. He makes too many mistakes. He's a good player but he needs to be with Pablo or ray. Carmelo in unit 1 as a 4. Opens up everything. Please consider
Ive agreed with this from day 1 and heres why:
- knicks had lots of success with Melo at the 4..the formula WORKS!
- i have concerns with playing too many "weak" defensive players (melo-3/bargs-4). instead start artest for some toughness and balance
- Bargs has to earn it with EFFORT (which i dont see). it makes sense to play bargs with melo IF hes HITTING LONG distance shots...but hes not
- less pressure on bargs in the 2nd unit. he strikes me as a mentally fragile guy who needs coddling. dont want the garden booing him already
Good point ned. This is setting up to be a disaster w bargs and the fans Moving him to unit two and taking some pressure off to let him regain some form at pace is smart. I'm not killing bargs but lets go with won us 54 games and then lets get better w a better second unit. This team can go in different directions. It's all chemistry. Also not mentioned is how bad our ph play was this pre season. A combination of injury from Felton and the change in sl has not helped. I would say the number 1reason we got off so good last year was j Kidd. We don't have that so we don't need negatives. We don't need Chris smith. Bargs should be given time in unit 2to come back. We got Ron attest. He can help us start games w an edge. He has to watch his own shot selection and if he can do that I think that's our best bet. We don't want bargs being booed by game 3.
I don't believe Bargs at the 4 is etched in stone. Melo hasn't driven to the rim as much and hasn't gotten clobbered as much either. Woodson might be trying this experiment in part to keep Melo from taking as much punishment under the boards as he would at the 4, at this point in the season. In addition to spacing.
If it doesn't work out I could see the first of many roster changes. Lots of talent on this team, I'm guessing that Woodson is going to do his share of experimenting with different lineups this season.
callmened wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Just watching tape again. Melo looks very uncomfortable w bargs. Melo was a superstar last year at 4 and we. Won 54 games. Must go back to this. Either move attest or jr into sl move bargs back to 2 unit and play Brno as the 2unit. Sg. Not ph. He makes too many mistakes. He's a good player but he needs to be with Pablo or ray. Carmelo in unit 1 as a 4. Opens up everything. Please consider
Ive agreed with this from day 1 and heres why:
- knicks had lots of success with Melo at the 4..the formula WORKS!
Until we get to the playoffs! I'm not sure- it might be better sacrificing some regular season wins and instead try and develop a style that might get us further in the playoffs. We need to learn how to play big successfully. Melo is a 3, he's had a lot of success as a 3. He was great at PF last season but he essentially got beaten to within an inch of his basketball life by guys like David West, Garnett etc. He looks thinner this year (a bit to thin for PF) and his shoulder is vulnerable. I'd rather keep him at SF.
