Papabear Says
Novak was our best 3point shooter last season. Where I think he was important when we played the not so important game in which we should win he was there hitting 3s. We really never ran any set plays for him. The better teams camped out for him. I believe we could have worked with him in handling the ball and going to the basket. What I see now that is missing is that three point shooter. We will miss his points in games we should win. Someone must step up. I don't think we will score as much this season so our defense must step up. NOW I DON'T WANT THIS POST TO TURN INTO A MELO HATE POST. IF YOU HAVE TO DO THAT JUST STAY OFF.
if you're asking if we should've waited to trade a better deal, I think it's too early to tell. As far as this season is concerned, has the guy even suited up yet? I don't think Novak's presence would make or break our season.
No. Super bad contract that interferes with 2015 goals.
Novak, wasn't part of the regular rotation at the end of the season because other teams did a good job neutralizing the guy while he was on the floor. I thought this team did really well shooting threes without the guy.
Novak is a great shooter but he's a one trick pony. If he ever learns to shoot off the dribble like Korver, than he would be dangerous but until then, he's worthless.
so no..we didn't jump the gun.
The thought crossed my mind during the Bulls game but he really fell off after his first season here and the league figured him out. I don't remember him contributing much last season and by the end (as others have stated) he wasn't even getting any burn.
Could he be an asset if used correctly? Possibly. Does he need to expand his game? Definitely.
I think we will have less of an issue when jR comes back, although he is streaky, we could use him. Shump is great but has more to learn - which I believe he will. Hardaway JR seems promising but he is a rookie. JR should open the floor up a little and I am keeping my fingers crossed that Bargs gets his shot to fall - that would pretty much destroy any notion that we could use Novak.
OasisBU wrote:The thought crossed my mind during the Bulls game but he really fell off after his first season here and the league figured him out. I don't remember him contributing much last season and by the end (as others have stated) he wasn't even getting any burn. Could he be an asset if used correctly? Possibly. Does he need to expand his game? Definitely.
I think we will have less of an issue when jR comes back, although he is streaky, we could use him. Shump is great but has more to learn - which I believe he will. Hardaway JR seems promising but he is a rookie. JR should open the floor up a little and I am keeping my fingers crossed that Bargs gets his shot to fall - that would pretty much destroy any notion that we could use Novak.
+1
I definitely thought about him during the bulls game, but yeah... your absolutely right
Papabear wrote:Papabear SaysNovak was our best 3point shooter last season. Where I think he was important when we played the not so important game in which we should win he was there hitting 3s. We really never ran any set plays for him. The better teams camped out for him. I believe we could have worked with him in handling the ball and going to the basket. What I see now that is missing is that three point shooter. We will miss his points in games we should win. Someone must step up. I don't think we will score as much this season so our defense must step up. NOW I DON'T WANT THIS POST TO TURN INTO A MELO HATE POST. IF YOU HAVE TO DO THAT JUST STAY OFF.
I hate melo.
Novak sucked, Hardaway is much better. Doesn't matter if you're a good shooter if you can't get open.
Novak's game was completely shut down against good teams in the playoffs. In the reg season he is more effective because teams only play us once, or rarely, twice in a row so defender are just not as honed in on him as in a long series.
And much of it has to do with the length of his contract as well.
Jump the gun? No
Make a pointless trade that doesn't help us and may even do more harm than good? Yes
CrushAlot wrote:No. Super bad contract that interferes with 2015 goals.
That's ridiculous. It was so urgent to get out of the $3 mil owed to him 3 years from now that we had to give up one first round and three total draft picks?! We had potentially $50 mil in cap room. It was really that urgent to build it up to $53 or so mil?!
Bonn1997 wrote:Jump the gun? No
Make a pointless trade that doesn't help us and may even do more harm than good? Yes
Perfectly stated
Bonn1997 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:No. Super bad contract that interferes with 2015 goals.
That's ridiculous. It was so urgent to get out of the $3 mil owed to him 3 years from now that we had to give up one first round and three total draft picks?! We had potentially $50 mil in cap room. It was really that urgent to build it up to $53 or so mil?!
Actually it saves 4 million and the potential for bargs to help on the court is much greater then what Novak/Camby brought. The late second round picks are barely assets and the 2016 first round pick is compromised by Denver's right to swap. Isn't it a gm's job to try to improve his team? Holding onto second round picks and a compromised first round pick for a draft 3 years away doesn't make sense if you are trying to win now with the core group you have. The Knicks organization values cap space. They traded their lottery pick and a top 1 protected pick to get 6 million in cap space in the mc Grady deal.
CrushAlot wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:No. Super bad contract that interferes with 2015 goals.
That's ridiculous. It was so urgent to get out of the $3 mil owed to him 3 years from now that we had to give up one first round and three total draft picks?! We had potentially $50 mil in cap room. It was really that urgent to build it up to $53 or so mil?!
Actually it saves 4 million and the potential for bargs to help on the court is much greater then what Novak/Camby brought. The late second round picks are barely assets and the 2016 first round pick is compromised by Denver's right to swap. Isn't it a gm's job to try to improve his team? Holding onto second round picks and a compromised first round pick for a draft 3 years away doesn't make sense if you are trying to win now with the core group you have. The Knicks organization values cap space. They traded their lottery pick and a top 1 protected pick to get 6 million in cap space in the mc Grady deal.
Well that's different from the reasoning you mentioned before. Before you were talking about how urgent it was to get out of Novak's superbad $3.75 contract.
We disagree on whether Bargs brings anything worthwhile but trading for an immediate upgrade would have made sense. Giving up assets so that you could have $53 instead of $50 mil in cap space 3 years from now wouldn't have.
Bonn1997 wrote:Jump the gun? No
Make a pointless trade that doesn't help us and may even do more harm than good? Yes
I believe this is the point of contention. Some believe that this was a pointless trade and others do not. What the Knicks gave up in the trade is also subject to interpretation given that none of us actually know what was (or was not) on the table for Bargs from other teams.
You can keep saying that the trade was pointless or counter-productive ....but now that the season has started, it would be more appropriate from a statistical standpoint to wait a few months and see if Bargs performs/adds value or not over a period of time/games. Otherwise it comes across as you being negative for the sake of being negative. Almost everyone on this board who is optimistic is taking wait and see approach with Bargs.....not sure why the pessimists can't do the same.
CrushAlot wrote:No. Super bad contract that interferes with 2015 goals.
WHAT 2015 goals?
Bonn1997 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:No. Super bad contract that interferes with 2015 goals.
That's ridiculous. It was so urgent to get out of the $3 mil owed to him 3 years from now that we had to give up one first round and three total draft picks?! We had potentially $50 mil in cap room. It was really that urgent to build it up to $53 or so mil?!
i find it hilarious that those who keep talking about this mythical 2015 cap space are also the ones that are endorsing maxing out carmelo... can't have both...
CrushAlot wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:No. Super bad contract that interferes with 2015 goals.
That's ridiculous. It was so urgent to get out of the $3 mil owed to him 3 years from now that we had to give up one first round and three total draft picks?! We had potentially $50 mil in cap room. It was really that urgent to build it up to $53 or so mil?!
Actually it saves 4 million and the potential for bargs to help on the court is much greater then what Novak/Camby brought. The late second round picks are barely assets and the 2016 first round pick is compromised by Denver's right to swap. Isn't it a gm's job to try to improve his team? Holding onto second round picks and a compromised first round pick for a draft 3 years away doesn't make sense if you are trying to win now with the core group you have. The Knicks organization values cap space. They traded their lottery pick and a top 1 protected pick to get 6 million in cap space in the mc Grady deal.
how is that? unless you are expecting the knicks to tank... if denver has a worse record than us, then there is no swap..
tkf wrote:CrushAlot wrote:No. Super bad contract that interferes with 2015 goals.
WHAT 2015 goals?
i'm guessing rondo/love is the plan with melo.
Clean wrote:tkf wrote:CrushAlot wrote:No. Super bad contract that interferes with 2015 goals.
WHAT 2015 goals?
i'm guessing rondo/love is the plan with melo.
LOL.. jeez we still on that pipe dream?
