Knicks · Zach Lowe on Shumpert (page 2)

VCoug wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

VCoug wrote:http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/1007...

Shumpert may be dead, or at least missing, by the time you read this, having had the gall to question Carmelo Anthony's horrid defense against the Pelicans on Sunday. Iman: If you're reading this from a public library in Alaska somewhere, wearing a fake beard and glasses, please be well.

Shumpert has stalled out as a Knick. You could go entire 10-minute spans without even noticing he's on the floor, especially since he cut his delightful high flattop — probably because some member of James Dolan's band found it distasteful.

Shumpert has used 12.7 percent of New York's possessions this season. That is almost unfathomable for a perimeter player who can, you know, dribble the basketball. Over the last two seasons, only 14 guys have averaged at least 25 minutes per game while using so few of their team's possessions. Most of them are big men with zero range (DeAndre Jordan, Tyson Chandler, Robin Lopez, the ghost of Kendrick Perkins) or catch-and-shoot types on loaded teams (Jared Dudley this season, Jason Kidd last season, Thabo Sefolosha in both).

Basically, Shumpert never gets the ball. He touches the rock just 1.4 times per minute on the floor, according to SportVu tracking data.

Look: Shumpert isn't an ace pick-and-roll guy. He's uncomfortable on the play, prone to wild passes, and capable mostly of only the simplest stuff. He's been a bit of a ball-stopper when he's gotten the ball this season, dancing with it before hoisting a long 2-point jumper.3But, man, you long to see this guy in a different offense. This season's Knicks are dreadful to watch. No team devotes a higher share of possessions to isolation plays, and when the ball sticks with Anthony or J.R. Smith, defenses can stop and set themselves. When the ball gets to Shumpert, his defender is usually right there, with no ground to cover, perfectly balanced in Shumpert's grill.

And that's a shame, because Shumpert has shown he can attack a defender scrambling to close out on him as he catches the ball. It's hard for defenders rushing at shooters to stop their momentum, and Shumpert can drive by them, slice into gaps, and either score or kick the ball elsewhere. He's a fundamentally unselfish player, happy to make the extra pass, though he has veered a bit toward me-first stuff at times this season — bad shots and highlight-reel dishes when something simpler would do. Stick this guy on the Rockets and you might have a player.

He's overrated as a defender. He fouls a ton, and he ball-watches, making him prone to back-door cuts along the baseline. He has played a role in the endless breakdowns in switching and communication that have plagued the Knicks. But he's feisty, and the foundation is there, waiting for a team who can teach better habits.

A fair assessment. Honestly, I'm almost hoping that Shumpert does get traded so he doesn't go down with the rest of this sinking ship. Going to an honest to god professional NBA team with competent coaches and front office would do wonders for him. I wonder if San Antonio would be interested?

I highlighted the important part of the article -- the part that tells you Shump has few offensive skills, makes poor decisions and has a low b-ball IQ.

Yeah, I've been saying that since we drafted him three years ago. He's a nice role player but the expectations put on him by some Knicks fans (next Wade, next Kobe, mini-Jordan) were completely out of proportion to his ability. Still, I believe he's better than he's shown so far this year but he needs real coaching and training to bring out his full potential.

That also was some of the criticism of him coming out of college. Shump was seen as a tremendous athlete and a very good defender that stopped the ball and made poor decisions on offense.

A lot of guys have flaws coming out of college. Shumpert looked great under Dantoni and Lin when the ball moved. He has regressed in Woodsons unimaginative ISO Melo/JR OFFENSE

gunsnewing wrote:A lot of guys have claws coming out of college. Shumpert looked great under Dantoni and Lin when the ball moved. He has regressed in Woodsons unimaginative ISO Melo/JR OFFENSE

Yeah the kid was getting better and now he's regressed. I mean it makes no sense that this isn't his breakout season after what he was showing late last year. All the mind games and the lack of ball movement or team oriented offense is stunting his growth.

gunsnewing wrote:A lot of guys have flaws coming out of college. Shumpert looked great under Dantoni and Lin when the ball moved. He has regressed in Woodsons unimaginative ISO Melo/JR OFFENSE

His shooting percentage when D'Ant was the coach and Lin the starter was 40%. That was his shooting percentage for the season. His percentage is actually slightly better this year then it was when he was having his hey day with Lin/D'Antoni.

Basketball is all about rhythm, and no one on this team is in rhythm for more then a few possessions. It all falls back on woodson, he is doing some of the worst coaching i have ever seen, every player on this roster has took a step back..maybe even 2 steps back..

Amare looks horrible, he was kind when he said woodson is making him look like he has no game

Felton looks like a back up at best playing under woodson

pablo looks nothing like last season

Jr, shump, kmart they all look horrible at times..

These players are bickering with each other in public, behind close doors, social media...

I would give 2 months salary to sit through a couple of knicks practices..

CrushAlot wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:A lot of guys have flaws coming out of college. Shumpert looked great under Dantoni and Lin when the ball moved. He has regressed in Woodsons unimaginative ISO Melo/JR OFFENSE

His shooting percentage when D'Ant was the coach and Lin the starter was 40%. That was his shooting percentage for the season. His percentage is actually slightly better this year then it was when he was having his hey day with Lin/D'Antoni.

And no progression from his rookie year 3yrs later. Only regression

gunsnewing wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:A lot of guys have flaws coming out of college. Shumpert looked great under Dantoni and Lin when the ball moved. He has regressed in Woodsons unimaginative ISO Melo/JR OFFENSE

His shooting percentage when D'Ant was the coach and Lin the starter was 40%. That was his shooting percentage for the season. His percentage is actually slightly better this year then it was when he was having his hey day with Lin/D'Antoni.

And no progression

He missed almost the entire season last year and didn't put in the work this past summer. I guess that is on the coach?

CrushAlot wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:A lot of guys have flaws coming out of college. Shumpert looked great under Dantoni and Lin when the ball moved. He has regressed in Woodsons unimaginative ISO Melo/JR OFFENSE

His shooting percentage when D'Ant was the coach and Lin the starter was 40%. That was his shooting percentage for the season. His percentage is actually slightly better this year then it was when he was having his hey day with Lin/D'Antoni.

And no progression

He missed almost the entire season last year and didn't put in the work this past summer. I guess that is on the coach?

Wow. Looked back and didn't realize Shump came back at the end of January. No wonder he needed another knee procedure.

He's averaging less than 5 shots a game. He shoots in only 12% of possessions

You don't think Woodson giving Melo and JR carte Blanche to shoot every shot has anything to do with other guys numbers being down?

gunsnewing wrote:You don't think Woodson giving Melo and JR carte Blanche to shoot every shot has anything to do with other guys numbers being down?

I don't think Lin/D'Antoni was any different then what Woodson did for the rest of that season pre-injury. Weren't you making the point that Shump was developing fine until D'Antoni left?

Yea he actually got easy baskets in transition and off cuts from Lin

When Shumpert shots now it always seems to be by accident

gunsnewing wrote:Yea he actually got easy baskets in transition and off cuts from Lin

When Shumpert shots now it always seems to be by accident

Again, his shooting percentage with LIn/D'Ant was identical to his shooting percentage for the entire year and without looking it up I think he averaged the same points per game.

I love Shumpert and it is because of that reason that I think he needs to be traded. He'll never have the opportunity to develop in this environment with the intense media scrutiny, schizophrenic management and incompetent coaching. We need veterans if we intend to keep Melo and continue this course, while Shumpert needs a team that will give him a bigger role and responsibility e.g. the Magic. I've said it once and I'll say it again, we need to salvage whatever value he has left and move both he and the necessary expiring contracts for Aaron Afflalo, Jameer Nelson and Brandon Bass.

Shumpert was the 2nd best scorer in the playoffs last year. He has regressed to taking less than 5 shots per game this year. While JR has carte blanch to shoot 4-14 30% every game

gunsnewing wrote:Shumpert was the 2nd best scorer in the playoffs last year. He has regressed to taking less than 5 shots per game this year. While JR has carte blanch to shoot 4-14 30% every game

JR is an established scorer in the league, who peaked last year with a 6th Man of the Year Award. Shumpert hasn't earned the reputation to usurp Smith's status as the 2nd or 3rd best player on the team. After all, he wasn't exactly doing much with the time/role he got with Smith out at the beginning of the season.

gunsnewing wrote:Shumpert was the 2nd best scorer in the playoffs last year. He has regressed to taking less than 5 shots per game this year. While JR has carte blanch to shoot 4-14 30% every game

I was responding to your point that his development was going great for the 18 games D'Antoni coached him and Lin started at the point.

Jesus Christ...

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/...

According to league sources with knowledge of the team's talks with potential trade partners, president/GM Steve Mills' management team has also cited Mike Woodson's coaching as one reason for Shumpert's poor play.

"They're saying that Shumpert's a better player [than he's shown] but Woodson isn't using him right," one league source said.

VCoug wrote:Jesus Christ...

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/...

According to league sources with knowledge of the team's talks with potential trade partners, president/GM Steve Mills' management team has also cited Mike Woodson's coaching as one reason for Shumpert's poor play.

"They're saying that Shumpert's a better player [than he's shown] but Woodson isn't using him right," one league source said.

Thanks

When Shump was with MDA he was a chucker and only improved when he was moved off the ball. SO how many games did he play under MDA after he moved off the ball?

HE was never a great finisher but since his surgery he has looked worse. Has Shump ever looked like THJr on the break or in traffic and I'm not sure he is all that great. So, what can Shump realistically do offensively? How would you use Shump: off screens, iso, post, or etc? I personally would take the ball out of JRs hands and just use him off of screens and I think I would do the same with Shump. JR is not the answer so I wouldn't mind seeing SHump used a little more but is he capable?

I like Shump but I am not going to get all up in arms about him simply because he hasn't shown a consistent defensive effort this year. It wasn't there the first game and he has only had around 3-5 good defensive games. IF he came in playing good D then I would be more upset.

Shumps been a liability on both ends.