callmened wrote:EnySpree wrote:I'm Good with this new line up.... yeah gardner is in granderson out. I likd the idea of speed in the line up. Giradi could really play around with that and squeeze it some games. Omar infante over Cano son. Let's do it
why would the grandy man be out...hard to replace his 40HRs and 200 Ks
We can't spend that kind of money on a 4th outfielder when we don't even have a 3rd starting pitcher.
In baseball we can't rely on the home run like that. That's why when we need a Game we can't win. McCann, Soriano and Tex give us some pop. Everone else can get on base and get those extra bases for us. Only bat I really want is Choo...he gets in base and can drive in runs. Beltran at 2 years is not bad but he's too expensive. I think we're good with bats right now. Omar invante to replace Cano would seal that up for us.
Then you go get pitching and let's gave some fun this year
The Yankees apparently are still offering Cano $175 mil. I don't get it if they offered Ellsbury either $153 or 169 mil, they think Cano is only a tad better than Ellsbury?! If Cano is worth $175, Ellsbury is worth about $75.
Bonn1997 wrote:Finestrg wrote:Just trying to get it down on paper to see where we are and where we could go. Hopefully it'll shape up this way:CF Ellsbury
SS Jeter
2B Cano (Omar Infante if Cano signs with Seattle?)
1B Teixeira
RF Granderson
LF Soriano
C McCann
DH Kendrys Morales? Mark Reynolds?
3B ??? A-Rod might get a reduced sentence at some point but he'll be gone the whole year. See, I would've been OK with David Adams here. Eduardo Nunez?
---------------------------
1 - Sabathia
2 - Matt Garza?
3 - Nova
4 - Kuroda (if we want to conserve some salary, let Kuroda walk and slate in Adam Warren here)
5 - Pineda
Darkhorse - Manny Banuelos (legit consideration if he's healthy and has a good spring)
Darkhorse - Masahiro Tanaka, but maybe we pass on this in favor of filling other needs. Garza might be cheaper and more of a known quantity.
---------------------------
Closer - Fernando Rodney? The bow & arrow thing's ridiculous but he's dominant. Younger than Nathan. 3 year deal maybe? If we want to conserve payroll, go with D-Rob and bump everyone up a notch.
Main setup - Robertson
Additional setup - Chris Perez?
Lefty Specialist - Resign Logan
Other quality possibilities:
?? Matt Thornton
?? Jose Veras
The rest:
Preston Claiborne
Cesar Cabral
Shawn Kelley
Adam Warren
David Phelps
Dellin Betances
What about Gardner? I assume he's playing and Granderson is gone.
I didn't get into the bench -- love Gardy but I think he might be relegated to 4th OFer if we can (1) bring back Granderson and (2) pick up a halfway decent everyday DH (Morales?). Although Ned could be right -- maybe Sori's looked at more as the DH and we go with more OF defense and speed with Gardner in the starting lineup. Could go either way.
I think Cano and Granderson are essential myself. Either one would be a huge loss and a tough void to fill. One guy's the best 2nd basemen in baseball, our own homegrown guy and the other was a guy we traded a good young OFer for a couple of years ago, a guy in his prime with 40 HR-type pop. We'd have nothing to show for that trade at all if we let Grandy walk. I know it's looking bleak but hopefully we can re-sign at least one of the 2 if not both. There are things we can do to conserve payroll to possibly come up with enough money for Cano & Granderson:
• Go cheap at DH (maybe Reynolds over Morales, go with Vernon Wells, give Pronk another shot?) and play Gardner full-time.
• Fill 3B from within. Probably the plan anyway. Nunez?
• Pass on the frontline starter (Garza, Tanaka).
• Pass on Kuroda, opt for Adam Warren here instead.
• Pass on the big name closer (Rodney or Nathan), promote Robertson to closer, elevate Betances and Claiborne to primary setup duty.
• Pass on shutdown lefties for the pen like Boone Logan and Matt Thornton -- instead go with Cesar Cabral, Vidal Nuno, David Huff.
Gonna be tough -- I don't really wanna skimp in these areas either -- I want upgrades here as well. Hopefully things settle down, we have some good dialogue with their agents, demands come down some and we can bring back Robbie and Grandy. I can't picture Grandy with the Mets and I can't picture Cano in another uniform as well. Does he really wanna go to Seattle? Safeco literally swallows up HRs. He'd hit 5-10 less a year there easy. But if they gave him a 10-year deal and the contract brought him to 41 years old, would he even care? Hopefully Robbie cares about wearing pinstripes and the 2 sides can bridge their gap. Jeter, Sabathia and these guys really need to put in work trying to get these 2 to stay..
Bonn1997 wrote:Finestrg wrote:Just trying to get it down on paper to see where we are and where we could go. Hopefully it'll shape up this way:CF Ellsbury
SS Jeter
2B Cano (Omar Infante if Cano signs with Seattle?)
1B Teixeira
RF Granderson
LF Soriano
C McCann
DH Kendrys Morales? Mark Reynolds?
3B ??? A-Rod might get a reduced sentence at some point but he'll be gone the whole year. See, I would've been OK with David Adams here. Eduardo Nunez?
---------------------------
1 - Sabathia
2 - Matt Garza?
3 - Nova
4 - Kuroda (if we want to conserve some salary, let Kuroda walk and slate in Adam Warren here)
5 - Pineda
Darkhorse - Manny Banuelos (legit consideration if he's healthy and has a good spring)
Darkhorse - Masahiro Tanaka, but maybe we pass on this in favor of filling other needs. Garza might be cheaper and more of a known quantity.
---------------------------
Closer - Fernando Rodney? The bow & arrow thing's ridiculous but he's dominant. Younger than Nathan. 3 year deal maybe? If we want to conserve payroll, go with D-Rob and bump everyone up a notch.
Main setup - Robertson
Additional setup - Chris Perez?
Lefty Specialist - Resign Logan
Other quality possibilities:
?? Matt Thornton
?? Jose Veras
The rest:
Preston Claiborne
Cesar Cabral
Shawn Kelley
Adam Warren
David Phelps
Dellin Betances
What about Gardner? I assume he's playing and Granderson is gone.
Yes, Gardner to left, Ichi to right, Grandy to some other team (can't pay him AND Cano). Yanks next moves are to resign Cano and add a rotation arm and a closer.
Much to be said for adding a stellar leadoff hitter while also subtracting him from the Sox. Solid move!
Moonangie wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Finestrg wrote:Just trying to get it down on paper to see where we are and where we could go. Hopefully it'll shape up this way:CF Ellsbury
SS Jeter
2B Cano (Omar Infante if Cano signs with Seattle?)
1B Teixeira
RF Granderson
LF Soriano
C McCann
DH Kendrys Morales? Mark Reynolds?
3B ??? A-Rod might get a reduced sentence at some point but he'll be gone the whole year. See, I would've been OK with David Adams here. Eduardo Nunez?
---------------------------
1 - Sabathia
2 - Matt Garza?
3 - Nova
4 - Kuroda (if we want to conserve some salary, let Kuroda walk and slate in Adam Warren here)
5 - Pineda
Darkhorse - Manny Banuelos (legit consideration if he's healthy and has a good spring)
Darkhorse - Masahiro Tanaka, but maybe we pass on this in favor of filling other needs. Garza might be cheaper and more of a known quantity.
---------------------------
Closer - Fernando Rodney? The bow & arrow thing's ridiculous but he's dominant. Younger than Nathan. 3 year deal maybe? If we want to conserve payroll, go with D-Rob and bump everyone up a notch.
Main setup - Robertson
Additional setup - Chris Perez?
Lefty Specialist - Resign Logan
Other quality possibilities:
?? Matt Thornton
?? Jose Veras
The rest:
Preston Claiborne
Cesar Cabral
Shawn Kelley
Adam Warren
David Phelps
Dellin Betances
What about Gardner? I assume he's playing and Granderson is gone.
Yes, Gardner to left, Ichi to right, Grandy to some other team (can't pay him AND Cano). Yanks next moves are to resign Cano and add a rotation arm and a closer.
Much to be said for adding a stellar leadoff hitter while also subtracting him from the Sox. Solid move!
They better not play Ichiro ahead of Soriano!
Bonn1997 wrote:The Yankees apparently are still offering Cano $175 mil. I don't get it if they offered Ellsbury either $153 or 169 mil, they think Cano is only a tad better than Ellsbury?! If Cano is worth $175, Ellsbury is worth about $75.
yea, I think that is kind of odd. they set the price for cano by giving ellsbury that much and believe me, the price for cano is going to be higher.... I am sure that is what cano's camp is thinking... Honestly, cano needs to drop the Jay Z circus and get a real agent. jay Z is another self absorbed, self indulgent, overrated, egomanical, mush head who really doesn't have a clue in this sports business. he needs to go back to being a Brooklyn nets celebrity mascot... he is making cano seem like a greedy player and this may cost cano.. and the yankees..
Bonn1997 wrote:Moonangie wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Finestrg wrote:Just trying to get it down on paper to see where we are and where we could go. Hopefully it'll shape up this way:CF Ellsbury
SS Jeter
2B Cano (Omar Infante if Cano signs with Seattle?)
1B Teixeira
RF Granderson
LF Soriano
C McCann
DH Kendrys Morales? Mark Reynolds?
3B ??? A-Rod might get a reduced sentence at some point but he'll be gone the whole year. See, I would've been OK with David Adams here. Eduardo Nunez?
---------------------------
1 - Sabathia
2 - Matt Garza?
3 - Nova
4 - Kuroda (if we want to conserve some salary, let Kuroda walk and slate in Adam Warren here)
5 - Pineda
Darkhorse - Manny Banuelos (legit consideration if he's healthy and has a good spring)
Darkhorse - Masahiro Tanaka, but maybe we pass on this in favor of filling other needs. Garza might be cheaper and more of a known quantity.
---------------------------
Closer - Fernando Rodney? The bow & arrow thing's ridiculous but he's dominant. Younger than Nathan. 3 year deal maybe? If we want to conserve payroll, go with D-Rob and bump everyone up a notch.
Main setup - Robertson
Additional setup - Chris Perez?
Lefty Specialist - Resign Logan
Other quality possibilities:
?? Matt Thornton
?? Jose Veras
The rest:
Preston Claiborne
Cesar Cabral
Shawn Kelley
Adam Warren
David Phelps
Dellin Betances
What about Gardner? I assume he's playing and Granderson is gone.
Yes, Gardner to left, Ichi to right, Grandy to some other team (can't pay him AND Cano). Yanks next moves are to resign Cano and add a rotation arm and a closer.
Much to be said for adding a stellar leadoff hitter while also subtracting him from the Sox. Solid move!
They better not play Ichiro ahead of Soriano!
Respect everything about Ichiro but the reality is this guy's declined a lot. He's a part-time player now if that. Is Ichiro even under contract? I'm not looking at him as a primary player for us anymore -- go get Granderson back (priority 1b, Cano's 1a), have Gardner & Vernon Wells as the extra OFers (along with Soriano who ain't terrible in LF) and maybe carry a youngster like Zoilo Almonte (you figure they'd still want Heathcott, Austin and Mason Williams developing in the minors full-time).
An OF of Gardy, Ellsbury and Ichiro is not that imposing at all. We need to come up with something better than that.
Finestrg wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Moonangie wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Finestrg wrote:Just trying to get it down on paper to see where we are and where we could go. Hopefully it'll shape up this way:CF Ellsbury
SS Jeter
2B Cano (Omar Infante if Cano signs with Seattle?)
1B Teixeira
RF Granderson
LF Soriano
C McCann
DH Kendrys Morales? Mark Reynolds?
3B ??? A-Rod might get a reduced sentence at some point but he'll be gone the whole year. See, I would've been OK with David Adams here. Eduardo Nunez?
---------------------------
1 - Sabathia
2 - Matt Garza?
3 - Nova
4 - Kuroda (if we want to conserve some salary, let Kuroda walk and slate in Adam Warren here)
5 - Pineda
Darkhorse - Manny Banuelos (legit consideration if he's healthy and has a good spring)
Darkhorse - Masahiro Tanaka, but maybe we pass on this in favor of filling other needs. Garza might be cheaper and more of a known quantity.
---------------------------
Closer - Fernando Rodney? The bow & arrow thing's ridiculous but he's dominant. Younger than Nathan. 3 year deal maybe? If we want to conserve payroll, go with D-Rob and bump everyone up a notch.
Main setup - Robertson
Additional setup - Chris Perez?
Lefty Specialist - Resign Logan
Other quality possibilities:
?? Matt Thornton
?? Jose Veras
The rest:
Preston Claiborne
Cesar Cabral
Shawn Kelley
Adam Warren
David Phelps
Dellin Betances
What about Gardner? I assume he's playing and Granderson is gone.
Yes, Gardner to left, Ichi to right, Grandy to some other team (can't pay him AND Cano). Yanks next moves are to resign Cano and add a rotation arm and a closer.
Much to be said for adding a stellar leadoff hitter while also subtracting him from the Sox. Solid move!
They better not play Ichiro ahead of Soriano!
Respect everything about Ichiro but the reality is this guy's declined a lot. He's a part-time player now if that. Is Ichiro even under contract? I'm not looking at him as a primary player for us anymore -- go get Granderson back (priority 1b, Cano's 1a), have Gardner & Vernon Wells as the extra OFers (along with Soriano who ain't terrible in LF) and maybe carry a youngster like Zoilo Almonte (you figure they'd still want Heathcott, Austin and Mason Williams developing in the minors full-time).
An OF of Gardy, Ellsbury and Ichiro is not that imposing at all. We need to come up with something better than that.
Soriano is in the outfield
Bonn1997 wrote:The Yankees apparently are still offering Cano $175 mil. I don't get it if they offered Ellsbury either $153 or 169 mil, they think Cano is only a tad better than Ellsbury?! If Cano is worth $175, Ellsbury is worth about $75.
Exactly if ellsbury is getting 7 for $153 than Cano better get 7 for 200+
Makes no sense unless they were considering paying cano $200+ this whole time
This sucks because I did not want to give Cano more than 7yrs. Ellsbury is the same age
Bonn1997 wrote:The Yankees apparently are still offering Cano $175 mil. I don't get it if they offered Ellsbury either $153 or 169 mil, they think Cano is only a tad better than Ellsbury?! If Cano is worth $175, Ellsbury is worth about $75.
That's ridiculous. Cano is my favorite player, and he's amazing defensively and offensively. But based on the numbers, Ellsbury is worth near the same deal. Career .300 hitter with speed on the bases and a lock-down center fielder...worth a bunch.
Moonangie wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:The Yankees apparently are still offering Cano $175 mil. I don't get it if they offered Ellsbury either $153 or 169 mil, they think Cano is only a tad better than Ellsbury?! If Cano is worth $175, Ellsbury is worth about $75.
That's ridiculous. Cano is my favorite player, and he's amazing defensively and offensively. But based on the numbers, Ellsbury is worth near the same deal. Career .300 hitter with speed on the bases and a lock-down center fielder...worth a bunch.
You have to give like a .100 OPS or .030 BA average handicap for being a 2nd baseman. Cano is light years ahead of the next best player at his position.
Bonn1997 wrote:Finestrg wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Moonangie wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Finestrg wrote:Just trying to get it down on paper to see where we are and where we could go. Hopefully it'll shape up this way:CF Ellsbury
SS Jeter
2B Cano (Omar Infante if Cano signs with Seattle?)
1B Teixeira
RF Granderson
LF Soriano
C McCann
DH Kendrys Morales? Mark Reynolds?
3B ??? A-Rod might get a reduced sentence at some point but he'll be gone the whole year. See, I would've been OK with David Adams here. Eduardo Nunez?
---------------------------
1 - Sabathia
2 - Matt Garza?
3 - Nova
4 - Kuroda (if we want to conserve some salary, let Kuroda walk and slate in Adam Warren here)
5 - Pineda
Darkhorse - Manny Banuelos (legit consideration if he's healthy and has a good spring)
Darkhorse - Masahiro Tanaka, but maybe we pass on this in favor of filling other needs. Garza might be cheaper and more of a known quantity.
---------------------------
Closer - Fernando Rodney? The bow & arrow thing's ridiculous but he's dominant. Younger than Nathan. 3 year deal maybe? If we want to conserve payroll, go with D-Rob and bump everyone up a notch.
Main setup - Robertson
Additional setup - Chris Perez?
Lefty Specialist - Resign Logan
Other quality possibilities:
?? Matt Thornton
?? Jose Veras
The rest:
Preston Claiborne
Cesar Cabral
Shawn Kelley
Adam Warren
David Phelps
Dellin Betances
What about Gardner? I assume he's playing and Granderson is gone.
Yes, Gardner to left, Ichi to right, Grandy to some other team (can't pay him AND Cano). Yanks next moves are to resign Cano and add a rotation arm and a closer.
Much to be said for adding a stellar leadoff hitter while also subtracting him from the Sox. Solid move!
They better not play Ichiro ahead of Soriano!
Respect everything about Ichiro but the reality is this guy's declined a lot. He's a part-time player now if that. Is Ichiro even under contract? I'm not looking at him as a primary player for us anymore -- go get Granderson back (priority 1b, Cano's 1a), have Gardner & Vernon Wells as the extra OFers (along with Soriano who ain't terrible in LF) and maybe carry a youngster like Zoilo Almonte (you figure they'd still want Heathcott, Austin and Mason Williams developing in the minors full-time).
An OF of Gardy, Ellsbury and Ichiro is not that imposing at all. We need to come up with something better than that.
Soriano is in the outfield
Oops, my bad. Forgot Soriano is still under contract. Maybe they sign Ichiro as a backup utility outfielder. Grandy is as good as gone...too expensive considering the number of strikeouts. Yanks moving away from over-dependence on HR hitters.
Ellsbury is more dynamic than granderson but the injuries scare me especially at the tail end. And especially for a speed guy. I guess it's worth it if they win a few championships
gunsnewing wrote:Ellsbury is more dynamic than granderson but the injuries scare me especially at the tail end. And especially for a speed guy. I guess it's worth it if they win a few championships
To me they're 2 different players. One guy's a legit .300/50 SB leadoff guy; the other guy's a 40 HR/120 rbi guy that you bat 4th - 6th in order. Grandy's still fast enough to steal 20-25 bags too. And he'll play an above average OF no matter where we put him, CF or RF. Granderson was runner up in the MVP voting 2 years ago to Jose Bautista wasn't he (.262, 42, 119, only 162 Ks -- he actually hit closer to .285+ most of the year before late slippage)? Followed that up with another big-time power year (43 & 106). Bigger whiff total that year but I think it may have been tied to his eyesight -- I believe he since had corrective eye surgery. And like I said -- last year was a fluky lost year that he shouldn't be judged on at all. We're not gonna find another guy like him to plug in for RF that can cover the ground he can and also hit 40 bombs. Ellsbury and Granderson together with either Gardy or Sori would be a top notch OF offensively and defensively. Hearing talks with the Mets "are intensifying." Hopefully we're still in this..
Correction: Forgot that Curtis actually finished 4th in the AL MVP race in 2011 behind Verlander, Ellsbury and Bautista.
Cano is a Mariner. So this is what I don't get. Ellsbury is worth $153mil. $50mil more than what any other team was going to pay him but they chose to low ball Cano for $175mil. Mind you Ellsbury is always hurt
Cashman is out if his mind. Why keep messing with Boris?
gunsnewing wrote:Cano is a Mariner. So this is what I don't get. Ellsbury is worth $153mil. $50mil more than what any other team was going to pay him but they chose to low ball Cano for $175mil. Mind you Ellsbury is always hurtCashman is out if his mind. Why keep messing with Boris?
agree about the boras thing.. but cano is nowhere near worth 240million. im happy the yankees didn't sign him for that much, that's a ridiculous contract.
yeah, they overpaid for ellsbury, but giving cano 240mil would have been asinine.
Hal Steinbrenner is an idiot ..Hey let's overpay for a Red Sox who has played only 59% of his games since 2010..Lets lowball the guy who could be a great Yankee and plays everyday..
Seems petty and Dolanesque to me
$240mm over 10 is fucking ridiculous, let's keep it real, but this is still a sad day. Best 2nd baseman in baseball and this was
our guy man.
Where do we go from here?? Definitely frees up a lot of money to spend. Who do we target now? Infante, Choo, Granderson? All 3? The infield's a friggin' mess -- no 3rd baseman, Jeter's ankle worries me, no 2nd baseman now...We desperately need Tex to regain old form. Gland to see Kuroda back but we need pitching too in the worst way, starters and relievers. Ideally, I'd target Matt Garza and Fernando Rodney to close. Do we even have enough money for something like that?
Why did we let David Adams and Jayson Nix go? Was that completely necessary? Both were non-tendered -- I hope we can bring both guys back somehow for some more infield depth. I really like both players -- Adams was a good-looking prospect and Nix was a very capable role player with the bat & glove. I like both of those guys a hell of a lot more than this Brendan Ryan...I like Cash a lot, always have, but I hope he knows what he's doing. Ellsbury and McCann were 2 good moves but if we stop there, this team is stuck in mediocrity. We need much more...
