Knicks · Stephen A Smith: "In the last 24 hours, I heard Melo is gone..." (page 12)
meloanyk wrote:Melo aint going anywhere. Guy is down during losing struck and problably a bit despondent with SAS. Who can blame him, he is working his sss off. Loves NY and wont leave $30 on table besides. Team is positioned to have alot of financial flexibilty to build around him. He saw the mess that is Brooklyn and also saw how good his team can be with some changes
that is not true.. especially if we resign him... it won't be what you think...
Dagger wrote:meloanyk wrote:Melo aint going anywhere. Guy is down during losing struck and problably a bit despondent with SAS. Who can blame him, he is working his sss off. Loves NY and wont leave $30 on table besides. Team is positioned to have alot of financial flexibilty to build around him. He saw the mess that is Brooklyn and also saw how good his team can be with some changes
Yeah, I'm totally down with handing melo 30 million, no biggie, let's just cripple the franchise for another 5 years.But boy oh boy, it really is swell that he'll agree to stay here for only 30 million, what a loyal player!
yea, and this crap that he is working his ass off? well shumpert didn't seem to think so.. .carmelo still is lazy... and this he loves NY crap is ridiculous... dude doesn't love NY... please... not at least for the reasons that will benefit the knicks..
http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2013/12/07/...
By Jacob EisenbergAt this very moment, the fate of the Western Conference might be hanging in the balance of the Phoenix Suns’ front office.
Let me explain.
Let’s start out with a simple question:
Does anyone still take the Clippers seriously as Western Conference favorites? We’ve seen this act before: Chris Paul and Lob City put up highlights every night and make fans drool over the thought of a potential star-studded Heat-Clippers Final.
When the playoffs eventually come around, however, the Clippers recede back to looking like the fourth- or fifth best team in a loaded Western Conference. Sure, they pushed the Grizzlies to seven games last year. However, if you think DeAndre Jordan and Blake Griffin can effectively defend top-ranked opponents for an entire postseason, I’d like to invite you to play a quick game of “Name That Big Man.”
Player A has played 18 games and has defended 6.2 shots at the rim per 33.4 minutes a game, allowing 49.1% to go in.
Player B has played 19 games and has defended 8.2 shots at the rim per 35.4 minutes a game, allowing 59% to go in
Player C has played in 19 games and has defended 6.1 shots at the rim per 37.2 minutes a game, allowing 52.6% to go in.
I’ve got bad news for Clippers fans; two of three these guys are Blake Griffin and DeAndre Jordan. The third is David Lee, who is considered by some to be the worst interior defender in the NBA. Here’s the kicker: Lee is actually Player A and Jordan and Griffin are Players B and C, respectively. Comparatively speaking, DeAndre Jordan is making David Lee look like Roy Hibbert.
Opponents have attempted 14.3 shots at the rim against Jordan and Griffin per game and have scored on well over half of those attempts. That equates to more than thirty points a game on easy shots in the paint against only those two players. Note: this total doesn’t even begin to consider the added points that come from fouls. By the way, Griffin and Jordan collectively commit 7.1 fouls per game. (Exactly 2.5 more per game than the Spurs’ big man trio of Tim Duncan, Tiago Splitter and Boris Diaw.)
Part of the problem for the Clippers is that neither Jordan nor Griffin plays particularly tough interior defense. As you may recall, Chauncey Billups called Griffin soft after two years of playing together.
Just look at these two plays from the first half of Wednesday’s loss to the Hawks to see why L.A. gives up so many points in the paint.
1. Al Horford overwhelms DeAndre Jordan
2. Al Horford overwhelms Blake Griffin
When Jordan and Griffin get beaten up down low, they invariably get lazy and start hacking — sending them into early foul trouble with consistency. When the fouls toll up and Doc Rivers is forced to sit them, they get replaced by two of the league’s least effective 7-footers.
For my money, Byron Mullens is the worst interior defender in the NBA. For starters, he owns the worst Defensive Rating for any center in the league. Per 100 possessions, L.A. has been outscoring opponents by five points on the season. However, when Mullens is in the lineup, the Clippers have been abysmal, getting outscored by 16 points per 100 possessions. Mullens has a very rudimentary understanding of where he should place himself on the court and when to help out on defense, resulting in embarrassing defensive breakdowns like this:
While some have referred to Mullens and his partner-in-crime Ryan Hollins as the Clippers’ offense-defense 7-footer platoon, it’s a very crude designation to make. It is true that Hollins is better than Mullens on defense. Regardless, he’s still well below a league-average defender as well. He’s compiled an astounding 7.3 fouls per 36 minutes so far this season, by far the most for any player with over 150 minutes of logged action.
Hollins is also one of the league’s worst rebounders for a 7-footer, averaging fewer than seven rebounds per 36 minutes. This puts him right on par with some of the league’s better rebounding guards (Evan Turner, Lance Stephenson) but well below most competent centers.
Jordan. Griffin. Mullens. Hollins.
That’s it. That’s the extent of the Clippers’ interior depth. I mean, if you were so inclined, I guess you could include 37-year-old Antawn Jamison. But he’s only appeared in seven games this season and is undersized for a big man as is.
Rumors have been swirling that Lamar Odom might return to the team as a free agent in January. I’m skeptical Odom would be worth the investment. He’s an inherent distraction for the locker room and is an old 34 years of age. While he became a somewhat effective interior defender in recent years, he’s also coming off a tumultuous summer of alleged drug use, which has him looking more like the skinny Odom of the early-2000s than the bulky Odom from last year (that’s not a good thing.)
The Clippers’ pick-and-roll defense ranks 29th in the league, allowing 1.17 points per game, per Robby Kalland via Synergy Sports. This is a result of everything I’ve spelled out; Jordan and Griffin are below average rim protectors and Mullens and Hollins are the league’s least effective backup interior defenders. Not to mention, outside of Matt Barnes and the possible exceptions of Chris Paul and Jared Dudley, every player on the roster is better known for their offense than defense.
For a guy who is out why is he trying to recruit Rondo?
At the seasons end he has to be presented with a vision. He also has to see the landscape of what is available to him.
Recruiting Rondo? Why? Celts have to trade him? When is he a free agent?
Nalod wrote:Im sure mired in a losing streak Melo is "out of here". Who wouldn't.At the seasons end he has to be presented with a vision. He also has to see the landscape of what is available to him.
Recruiting Rondo? Why? Celts have to trade him? When is he a free agent?
where was that vision in february 2011?
dk7th wrote:Nalod wrote:Im sure mired in a losing streak Melo is "out of here". Who wouldn't.At the seasons end he has to be presented with a vision. He also has to see the landscape of what is available to him.
Recruiting Rondo? Why? Celts have to trade him? When is he a free agent?
where was that vision in february 2011?
You know how Dolan raised ticket prices almost immediately after the trade? That was the vision.
Nalod wrote:Im sure mired in a losing streak Melo is "out of here". Who wouldn't.At the seasons end he has to be presented with a vision. He also has to see the landscape of what is available to him.
Recruiting Rondo? Why? Celts have to trade him? When is he a free agent?
Rondo is a FA after next season.
Dagger wrote:I really want Melo to just tell Dolan straight up "I'm out". So tired of this dude. We need to rebuild. I would be sick to my stomach if he resigns for the max, I don't even know if I want him for less. If Melo was a player we could really win anything with we wouldn't be 5-14. It's not just Melo though, I'm tired of almost the entire roster of losers. Felton, JR, Amare, Udrih. I just wish they were all gone they're absolute trash. I don't care what happens with Shumpert anymore ,he doesn't look like a good player, even if that dunk was exciting. The only player I really like on this team is the rookie, that's how disgusted I am at this point.
I completely agree with this, this team needs an overhaul from top to bottom. I think Hardaway might be the only keeper.
Melo most overrated player in NBA. Which is bad enough, except his stranglehold on this franchise needs to end.
He talks defense, plays none. Talks ball movement, moves it never. Implies PG, yet rejected energetic (but flawed one) LIn, and, clearly insists on ISO ball at all time.
Impatient ot get out of Denver, forced wasteful mid season transfer of some talent, can't work with Amare, quit on MDA, pushed out Lin. Just who will he work with?
One tool player, but, shockingly bad effiicency, gaping deficiencies and outright 'my way or highway' makes impossible to build a team around.
Please, please, let him go.
Dagger wrote:I really want Melo to just tell Dolan straight up "I'm out". So tired of this dude. We need to rebuild. I would be sick to my stomach if he resigns for the max, I don't even know if I want him for less. If Melo was a player we could really win anything with we wouldn't be 5-14. It's not just Melo though, I'm tired of almost the entire roster of losers. Felton, JR, Amare, Udrih. I just wish they were all gone they're absolute trash. I don't care what happens with Shumpert anymore ,he doesn't look like a good player, even if that dunk was exciting. The only player I really like on this team is the rookie, that's how disgusted I am at this point.
Tracy McGrady, Shaq and Dwayne Wade were on 19 win rosters. Clearly, an abysmal season like the one we're having is not indicative of Melo's ability to contribute to a winner. Most of the guys currently on our roster will be out of the league (or close to it) once their contracts are up. Clearly, this roster is not built like a winner and that has nothing to do with Melo.
Knicks22 wrote:
Melo most overrated player in NBA. Which is bad enough, except his stranglehold on this franchise needs to end.
He talks defense, plays none. Talks ball movement, moves it never. Implies PG, yet rejected energetic (but flawed one) LIn, and, clearly insists on ISO ball at all time.Impatient ot get out of Denver, forced wasteful mid season transfer of some talent, can't work with Amare, quit on MDA, pushed out Lin. Just who will he work with?
One tool player, but, shockingly bad effiicency, gaping deficiencies and outright 'my way or highway' makes impossible to build a team around.
Please, please, let him go.
And with all that he's still one of the best players in the game. I think we should trade him to rebuild but let's be honest, his supporting cast is horrible. Just today, 3 of his starters scored 2 total points against one of the worst teams in the league. I suppose that's Melo's fault too?
martin wrote:Food for thought on what Blake and DeAndre bring as far as interior defense:http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2013/12/07/...
By Jacob EisenbergAt this very moment, the fate of the Western Conference might be hanging in the balance of the Phoenix Suns’ front office.
Let me explain.
Let’s start out with a simple question:
Does anyone still take the Clippers seriously as Western Conference favorites? We’ve seen this act before: Chris Paul and Lob City put up highlights every night and make fans drool over the thought of a potential star-studded Heat-Clippers Final.
When the playoffs eventually come around, however, the Clippers recede back to looking like the fourth- or fifth best team in a loaded Western Conference. Sure, they pushed the Grizzlies to seven games last year. However, if you think DeAndre Jordan and Blake Griffin can effectively defend top-ranked opponents for an entire postseason, I’d like to invite you to play a quick game of “Name That Big Man.”
Player A has played 18 games and has defended 6.2 shots at the rim per 33.4 minutes a game, allowing 49.1% to go in.
Player B has played 19 games and has defended 8.2 shots at the rim per 35.4 minutes a game, allowing 59% to go in
Player C has played in 19 games and has defended 6.1 shots at the rim per 37.2 minutes a game, allowing 52.6% to go in.
I’ve got bad news for Clippers fans; two of three these guys are Blake Griffin and DeAndre Jordan. The third is David Lee, who is considered by some to be the worst interior defender in the NBA. Here’s the kicker: Lee is actually Player A and Jordan and Griffin are Players B and C, respectively. Comparatively speaking, DeAndre Jordan is making David Lee look like Roy Hibbert.
Opponents have attempted 14.3 shots at the rim against Jordan and Griffin per game and have scored on well over half of those attempts. That equates to more than thirty points a game on easy shots in the paint against only those two players. Note: this total doesn’t even begin to consider the added points that come from fouls. By the way, Griffin and Jordan collectively commit 7.1 fouls per game. (Exactly 2.5 more per game than the Spurs’ big man trio of Tim Duncan, Tiago Splitter and Boris Diaw.)
Part of the problem for the Clippers is that neither Jordan nor Griffin plays particularly tough interior defense. As you may recall, Chauncey Billups called Griffin soft after two years of playing together.
Just look at these two plays from the first half of Wednesday’s loss to the Hawks to see why L.A. gives up so many points in the paint.
1. Al Horford overwhelms DeAndre Jordan
2. Al Horford overwhelms Blake Griffin
When Jordan and Griffin get beaten up down low, they invariably get lazy and start hacking — sending them into early foul trouble with consistency. When the fouls toll up and Doc Rivers is forced to sit them, they get replaced by two of the league’s least effective 7-footers.
For my money, Byron Mullens is the worst interior defender in the NBA. For starters, he owns the worst Defensive Rating for any center in the league. Per 100 possessions, L.A. has been outscoring opponents by five points on the season. However, when Mullens is in the lineup, the Clippers have been abysmal, getting outscored by 16 points per 100 possessions. Mullens has a very rudimentary understanding of where he should place himself on the court and when to help out on defense, resulting in embarrassing defensive breakdowns like this:
While some have referred to Mullens and his partner-in-crime Ryan Hollins as the Clippers’ offense-defense 7-footer platoon, it’s a very crude designation to make. It is true that Hollins is better than Mullens on defense. Regardless, he’s still well below a league-average defender as well. He’s compiled an astounding 7.3 fouls per 36 minutes so far this season, by far the most for any player with over 150 minutes of logged action.
Hollins is also one of the league’s worst rebounders for a 7-footer, averaging fewer than seven rebounds per 36 minutes. This puts him right on par with some of the league’s better rebounding guards (Evan Turner, Lance Stephenson) but well below most competent centers.
Jordan. Griffin. Mullens. Hollins.
That’s it. That’s the extent of the Clippers’ interior depth. I mean, if you were so inclined, I guess you could include 37-year-old Antawn Jamison. But he’s only appeared in seven games this season and is undersized for a big man as is.
Rumors have been swirling that Lamar Odom might return to the team as a free agent in January. I’m skeptical Odom would be worth the investment. He’s an inherent distraction for the locker room and is an old 34 years of age. While he became a somewhat effective interior defender in recent years, he’s also coming off a tumultuous summer of alleged drug use, which has him looking more like the skinny Odom of the early-2000s than the bulky Odom from last year (that’s not a good thing.)
The Clippers’ pick-and-roll defense ranks 29th in the league, allowing 1.17 points per game, per Robby Kalland via Synergy Sports. This is a result of everything I’ve spelled out; Jordan and Griffin are below average rim protectors and Mullens and Hollins are the league’s least effective backup interior defenders. Not to mention, outside of Matt Barnes and the possible exceptions of Chris Paul and Jared Dudley, every player on the roster is better known for their offense than defense.
even with that, I still take blake griffin..
martin wrote:Food for thought on what Blake and DeAndre bring as far as interior defense:http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2013/12/07/...
By Jacob EisenbergAt this very moment, the fate of the Western Conference might be hanging in the balance of the Phoenix Suns’ front office.
Let me explain.
Let’s start out with a simple question:
Does anyone still take the Clippers seriously as Western Conference favorites? We’ve seen this act before: Chris Paul and Lob City put up highlights every night and make fans drool over the thought of a potential star-studded Heat-Clippers Final.
When the playoffs eventually come around, however, the Clippers recede back to looking like the fourth- or fifth best team in a loaded Western Conference. Sure, they pushed the Grizzlies to seven games last year. However, if you think DeAndre Jordan and Blake Griffin can effectively defend top-ranked opponents for an entire postseason, I’d like to invite you to play a quick game of “Name That Big Man.”
Player A has played 18 games and has defended 6.2 shots at the rim per 33.4 minutes a game, allowing 49.1% to go in.
Player B has played 19 games and has defended 8.2 shots at the rim per 35.4 minutes a game, allowing 59% to go in
Player C has played in 19 games and has defended 6.1 shots at the rim per 37.2 minutes a game, allowing 52.6% to go in.
I’ve got bad news for Clippers fans; two of three these guys are Blake Griffin and DeAndre Jordan. The third is David Lee, who is considered by some to be the worst interior defender in the NBA. Here’s the kicker: Lee is actually Player A and Jordan and Griffin are Players B and C, respectively. Comparatively speaking, DeAndre Jordan is making David Lee look like Roy Hibbert.
Opponents have attempted 14.3 shots at the rim against Jordan and Griffin per game and have scored on well over half of those attempts. That equates to more than thirty points a game on easy shots in the paint against only those two players. Note: this total doesn’t even begin to consider the added points that come from fouls. By the way, Griffin and Jordan collectively commit 7.1 fouls per game. (Exactly 2.5 more per game than the Spurs’ big man trio of Tim Duncan, Tiago Splitter and Boris Diaw.)
Part of the problem for the Clippers is that neither Jordan nor Griffin plays particularly tough interior defense. As you may recall, Chauncey Billups called Griffin soft after two years of playing together.
Just look at these two plays from the first half of Wednesday’s loss to the Hawks to see why L.A. gives up so many points in the paint.
1. Al Horford overwhelms DeAndre Jordan
2. Al Horford overwhelms Blake Griffin
When Jordan and Griffin get beaten up down low, they invariably get lazy and start hacking — sending them into early foul trouble with consistency. When the fouls toll up and Doc Rivers is forced to sit them, they get replaced by two of the league’s least effective 7-footers.
For my money, Byron Mullens is the worst interior defender in the NBA. For starters, he owns the worst Defensive Rating for any center in the league. Per 100 possessions, L.A. has been outscoring opponents by five points on the season. However, when Mullens is in the lineup, the Clippers have been abysmal, getting outscored by 16 points per 100 possessions. Mullens has a very rudimentary understanding of where he should place himself on the court and when to help out on defense, resulting in embarrassing defensive breakdowns like this:
While some have referred to Mullens and his partner-in-crime Ryan Hollins as the Clippers’ offense-defense 7-footer platoon, it’s a very crude designation to make. It is true that Hollins is better than Mullens on defense. Regardless, he’s still well below a league-average defender as well. He’s compiled an astounding 7.3 fouls per 36 minutes so far this season, by far the most for any player with over 150 minutes of logged action.
Hollins is also one of the league’s worst rebounders for a 7-footer, averaging fewer than seven rebounds per 36 minutes. This puts him right on par with some of the league’s better rebounding guards (Evan Turner, Lance Stephenson) but well below most competent centers.
Jordan. Griffin. Mullens. Hollins.
That’s it. That’s the extent of the Clippers’ interior depth. I mean, if you were so inclined, I guess you could include 37-year-old Antawn Jamison. But he’s only appeared in seven games this season and is undersized for a big man as is.
Rumors have been swirling that Lamar Odom might return to the team as a free agent in January. I’m skeptical Odom would be worth the investment. He’s an inherent distraction for the locker room and is an old 34 years of age. While he became a somewhat effective interior defender in recent years, he’s also coming off a tumultuous summer of alleged drug use, which has him looking more like the skinny Odom of the early-2000s than the bulky Odom from last year (that’s not a good thing.)
The Clippers’ pick-and-roll defense ranks 29th in the league, allowing 1.17 points per game, per Robby Kalland via Synergy Sports. This is a result of everything I’ve spelled out; Jordan and Griffin are below average rim protectors and Mullens and Hollins are the league’s least effective backup interior defenders. Not to mention, outside of Matt Barnes and the possible exceptions of Chris Paul and Jared Dudley, every player on the roster is better known for their offense than defense.
I definitely think that both players are fool's gold but I do believe that Griffin can be salvageable. I'd trade Melo for him because of that, if for no other reason than to flip him for more assets e.g. a 2014 1st round pick.
NardDogNation wrote:Dagger wrote:I really want Melo to just tell Dolan straight up "I'm out". So tired of this dude. We need to rebuild. I would be sick to my stomach if he resigns for the max, I don't even know if I want him for less. If Melo was a player we could really win anything with we wouldn't be 5-14. It's not just Melo though, I'm tired of almost the entire roster of losers. Felton, JR, Amare, Udrih. I just wish they were all gone they're absolute trash. I don't care what happens with Shumpert anymore ,he doesn't look like a good player, even if that dunk was exciting. The only player I really like on this team is the rookie, that's how disgusted I am at this point.Tracy McGrady, Shaq and Dwayne Wade were on 19 win rosters. Clearly, an abysmal season like the one we're having is indicative of Melo's ability to contribute to a winner. Most of the guys currently on our roster will be out of the league (or close to it) once their contracts are up. Clearly, this roster is not built like a winner and that has nothing to do with Melo.
Shaq and Wade missed 80 combined games that year. Melo hasn't missed any. You can't list guys when they missed half the season. Or, at least, list the teams' winning percentages in games they appeared in and compare that to the Knicks this year. Which year are you referring to with T-Mac? I assume he was injured too.
Bonn1997 wrote:NardDogNation wrote:Dagger wrote:I really want Melo to just tell Dolan straight up "I'm out". So tired of this dude. We need to rebuild. I would be sick to my stomach if he resigns for the max, I don't even know if I want him for less. If Melo was a player we could really win anything with we wouldn't be 5-14. It's not just Melo though, I'm tired of almost the entire roster of losers. Felton, JR, Amare, Udrih. I just wish they were all gone they're absolute trash. I don't care what happens with Shumpert anymore ,he doesn't look like a good player, even if that dunk was exciting. The only player I really like on this team is the rookie, that's how disgusted I am at this point.Tracy McGrady, Shaq and Dwayne Wade were on 19 win rosters. Clearly, an abysmal season like the one we're having is indicative of Melo's ability to contribute to a winner. Most of the guys currently on our roster will be out of the league (or close to it) once their contracts are up. Clearly, this roster is not built like a winner and that has nothing to do with Melo.
Shaq and Wade missed 80 combined games that year. Melo hasn't missed any. You can't list guys when they missed half the season. Or, at least, list the teams' winning percentages in games they appeared in and compare that to the Knicks this year. Which year are you referring to with T-Mac? I assume he was injured too.
Now that I recall, Wade and Shaq were injured often that year but many of the games they missed was a result of just how bad they were at the beginning of the year. They got blown out by 40-ish points on opening night and the rest of the season wasn't much better. It wasn't a surprise, looking back because most of their key players either retired soon after or were out of the league. I still think the sample size was enough to demonstrate that even all-star/super star players are not impervious to the effects to a shitty supporting cast (see Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce).
As for McGrady, he played 67 games that 2003-2004 season, won the scoring title, all-NBA 2nd team AND made the all star game. Clearly he wasn't the problem and like the Heat, had almost all of their "key" players out of the league within a season or 2. We're basically in the same situation but stuck with these guys because their looked into contracts.
Bonn1997 wrote:Oh, I do remember what year you're talking about with McGrady. I would rank him ahead of Melo but I'm not a huge fan of his. I wouldn't want McGrady to be my team's best player. He'd probably need to be 3rd best on a championship team.
Melo's never sniffed the level of play that McGrady was at in his prime. I definitely think that McGrady was a franchise player and Hall of Famer during his prime. He just had the misfortune of breaking down due to the unreasonable burden he had to carry for several seasons without much help.
Bonn1997 wrote:He was really a volume rather than efficient scorer. He was pretty good at many things though (rebounds, assists, steals, blocks)
Most volume scorers are inefficient until they get decent teammates. It's tough being "the guy"; if it wasn't, more teams would have a Tracy McGrady or Carmelo Anthony. I love Melo's game because of that but I also think that it would be in our better interest to trade him immediately. He's had several surgeries since being here and chronic injuries that will haunt him on his next contract like McGrady. He had to do too much since his Denver days and all of that will come to a head soon.