BRIGGS wrote:TeamBall wrote:BRIGGS wrote:The post from holfrsh makes little sens because he gives no realistic model. He simply says lets hope to find a player in 2015 to play with melo.
Let me cross my fingers
Hey Holfresh what about the max contract we have to pay to JR Smith Ray Felton and Pablo combined in 2015
--oh and the 25 we have to pay Melo--and did you factor in 25 other teams will have more cap space than us. Why would a player want to come to a team that will have no frontcourt players under contract and essentially the same team that cant win now? So who is the mystery player and where is he coming from--what about Tyson C? Are you keeping him-- add 8mm to your cap at a minimum.
Ok yours. Give me your team and the cap.
Isn't that what the Knicks' current plan is? Re-sign Melo and get him another FA that'll make him happy?
Oh yeah who is that? Carmelo and who? Show me a semblance of what you have in mind 1-12. And please remember the cap.
Oh believe me I have no idea. All I'm saying is that what holfresh said seems pretty in line with what the Knicks' ultimate goal is.
What I would do
Trade Melo and Chandler for 5 draft picks and young players in the next two drafts
We would stink next year--almost locking in an additional top 4 pick
Take the 6 picks and build a team with emphasis on all skills athletic ability size speed etc...
Add major pieces in 2015 and 2016 via FA--guys that may not be on your radar like Reggie Jackson and Chandler Parsons
Build a team that can compete for 10 years and can withstand injury
All 15 roster spots count
BRIGGS wrote:What I would doTrade Melo and Chandler for 5 draft picks and young players in the next two drafts
We would stink next year--almost locking in an additional top 4 pick
Take the 6 picks and build a team with emphasis on all skills athletic ability size speed etc...
Add major pieces in 2015 and 2016 via FA--guys that may not be on your radar like Reggie Jackson and Chandler Parsons
Build a team that can compete for 10 years and can withstand injury
All 15 roster spots count
Well that is a plan, it's just not realistic...That has less than 5 percent chance of happening with Dolan as the owner...My hope and pray plan has more of a chance of coming to fruition than your well thought out plan...
holfresh wrote:BRIGGS wrote:What I would doTrade Melo and Chandler for 5 draft picks and young players in the next two drafts
We would stink next year--almost locking in an additional top 4 pick
Take the 6 picks and build a team with emphasis on all skills athletic ability size speed etc...
Add major pieces in 2015 and 2016 via FA--guys that may not be on your radar like Reggie Jackson and Chandler Parsons
Build a team that can compete for 10 years and can withstand injury
All 15 roster spots count
Well that is a plan, it's just not realistic...That has less than 5 percent chance of happening with Dolan as the owner...My hope and pray plan has more of a chance of coming to fruition than your well thought out plan...
If we're stuck to discussing things Dolan will do then it's basically one sentence: Starphuck on overrated PPG whores.
Can we make it 2 sentences?
Overrated ppg whores
(Marbury & Melo)
And
Players coming off multiple knee reconstructions
(Mcdyess & Amare)
Actually make it 3
Fat players
(Eddy curry, Jerome James, mo Taylor, Raymond Felton)
Make it 4 sentences
Low IQ players
(Jamal, TT, JR)
Make it 5
Players with substance abuse problems vin baker, JR
Eh Nevermind, you get the point
BRIGGS wrote:What I would doTrade Melo and Chandler for 5 draft picks and young players in the next two drafts
We would stink next year--almost locking in an additional top 4 pick
Take the 6 picks and build a team with emphasis on all skills athletic ability size speed etc...
Add major pieces in 2015 and 2016 via FA--guys that may not be on your radar like Reggie Jackson and Chandler Parsons
Build a team that can compete for 10 years and can withstand injury
All 15 roster spots count
Sacramento had the same plan, the Clippers had that plan for about 30 years, NOLA have that plan, Bobcats...
I am not a Melo fan but he does play hard. I think he just needs to play smarter. Forget your numbers and just judge yourself on wins.
Beltran is just really smooth and unemotional. Never see him get too much either way.
Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:BRIGGS wrote:What I would doTrade Melo and Chandler for 5 draft picks and young players in the next two drafts
We would stink next year--almost locking in an additional top 4 pick
Take the 6 picks and build a team with emphasis on all skills athletic ability size speed etc...
Add major pieces in 2015 and 2016 via FA--guys that may not be on your radar like Reggie Jackson and Chandler Parsons
Build a team that can compete for 10 years and can withstand injury
All 15 roster spots count
Well that is a plan, it's just not realistic...That has less than 5 percent chance of happening with Dolan as the owner...My hope and pray plan has more of a chance of coming to fruition than your well thought out plan...
If we're stuck to discussing things Dolan will do then it's basically one sentence: Starphuck on overrated PPG whores.
which equals the mess we are in now...
gunsnewing wrote:Beltran is one of the greatest playoff performers in the history of baseball. Melos play regresses in the playoffs vs real defensesBut I agree. Blow this shitty team up
Could have fooled me when he stood frozen like a statue on a looking strikeout game 7 of the NLCS against the Cardinals. Mets fans never forget that at-bat.
I don't see the comparison between beltran and Melo at all.
Beltran is an excellent player who had a nationally televised series for the ages, and thereafter, NY media and Mets fans thought they were getting Ruth/Gehring/Mantle/. He was, very very good, but couldn't replicate (nobody could) that series, and as such, mets fans faded on him.
melo - many talk about 'getting him help". seems to me, he's shown to be very, very hard to put people around him. seemed jealous of Lin, made clear he didn't want the PNR (making an even healthy Amare impossible to pair him with), hated MDA, so, for those who champion him as the centerpiece to 'put some talent around him", who do you have in mind? seems to me, melo has rejected outright varieyt of people/styles/coaches, so, i disagree with the keep him/build around him strategy
Alderson had done the same a year earlier, turning Carlos Beltran into Zack Wheeler, at the time the Giants’ pitching future and now the Mets’ likely opening-day starterKnicks22 - if you read the article at the top of the thread you may realize the comparison is not about a parallel in athletic ability... but the value of both players (in their prime) to their respective General Managers in terms of holding or folding.
Alderson flipped Beltrans value into two yoots with upside.
The point is whether Carmelo holds similar value to the Knicks as a trading chip... or a foundation?
Knicks22 wrote:I don't see the comparison between beltran and Melo at all.
Beltran is an excellent player who had a nationally televised series for the ages, and thereafter, NY media and Mets fans thought they were getting Ruth/Gehring/Mantle/. He was, very very good, but couldn't replicate (nobody could) that series, and as such, mets fans faded on him.melo - many talk about 'getting him help". seems to me, he's shown to be very, very hard to put people around him. seemed jealous of Lin, made clear he didn't want the PNR (making an even healthy Amare impossible to pair him with), hated MDA, so, for those who champion him as the centerpiece to 'put some talent around him", who do you have in mind? seems to me, melo has rejected outright varieyt of people/styles/coaches, so, i disagree with the keep him/build around him strategy
I don't think Melo really gets it. The only time he was a champion was in college, where a single player can take over games. That is the only way he knows how to win. He has not shown he knows how to win in a team concept, except in the Olympics where most games were 20+ point blowouts. He's like the tough guy who can beat people up who don't stand up to him, but once people show some toughness, he backs down.
You don't build around players like these. You need players who can deal with adversity, who play well with others, who share the ball, have high IQ. Players that for some reason this organization doesn't like to keep even when they fall in their lap and do amazing things(Jeremy Lin is a prime example)
knickstorrents wrote:Knicks22 wrote:I don't see the comparison between beltran and Melo at all.
Beltran is an excellent player who had a nationally televised series for the ages, and thereafter, NY media and Mets fans thought they were getting Ruth/Gehring/Mantle/. He was, very very good, but couldn't replicate (nobody could) that series, and as such, mets fans faded on him.melo - many talk about 'getting him help". seems to me, he's shown to be very, very hard to put people around him. seemed jealous of Lin, made clear he didn't want the PNR (making an even healthy Amare impossible to pair him with), hated MDA, so, for those who champion him as the centerpiece to 'put some talent around him", who do you have in mind? seems to me, melo has rejected outright varieyt of people/styles/coaches, so, i disagree with the keep him/build around him strategy
I don't think Melo really gets it. The only time he was a champion was in college, where a single player can take over games. That is the only way he knows how to win. He has not shown he knows how to win in a team concept, except in the Olympics where most games were 20+ point blowouts. He's like the tough guy who can beat people up who don't stand up to him, but once people show some toughness, he backs down.
You don't build around players like these. You need players who can deal with adversity, who play well with others, who share the ball, have high IQ. Players that for some reason this organization doesn't like to keep even when they fall in their lap and do amazing things(Jeremy Lin is a prime example)
AND LETS be honest, in college he had two very good teamates in Mcnamara and Warrick.. as well.
tkf wrote:Knicks22 wrote:I don't see the comparison between beltran and Melo at all.
Beltran is an excellent player who had a nationally televised series for the ages, and thereafter, NY media and Mets fans thought they were getting Ruth/Gehring/Mantle/. He was, very very good, but couldn't replicate (nobody could) that series, and as such, mets fans faded on him.melo - many talk about 'getting him help". seems to me, he's shown to be very, very hard to put people around him. seemed jealous of Lin, made clear he didn't want the PNR (making an even healthy Amare impossible to pair him with), hated MDA, so, for those who champion him as the centerpiece to 'put some talent around him", who do you have in mind? seems to me, melo has rejected outright varieyt of people/styles/coaches, so, i disagree with the keep him/build around him strategy
EXCELLENT POST
Tkf - if the basis of the comparison was explained, why is this an excellent post?
Explained another way, what would Sandy Alderson do with the Knicks?
The point is whether Carmelo holds similar value to the Knicks as a trading chip... or a foundation?
Please pay attention. Please.
