Knicks · Is Andrea Bargnani Lazy? (page 1)

Special players work at their craft and add nuance to their game at every opportunity.

Say what you will about Carmelo Anthony being self-centered, stubborn or lacking the social graces... No one EVER said he did not work his as off. (Cue the nixluva D'Antoni defense in 4... 3... 2... )

Andrea Bargnani would only need to average 18.3 points 9.5 rebounds and 5 assist and New York Knicks followers would throw him a parade.

misterearl wrote:Special players work at their craft and add nuance to their game at every opportunity.

Say what you will about Carmelo Anthony being self-centered, stubborn or lacking the social graces... No one EVER said he did not work his as off. (Cue the nixluva D'Antoni defense in 4... 3... 2... )

Andrea Bargnani would only need to average 18.3 points 9.5 rebounds and 5 assist and New York Knicks followers would throw him a parade.

I don't think he is lazy, he just has horrible reflexes, which is in part innate. Offensively, he's fine because he can think of what he, wants to do before doing it but defensively, it makes for a nightmare. There are so many highlights of him getting lost and not even covering a man because he's so slow to react on switches. Somebody needs to get that man Luminosity for his birthday to see if he can develop his mental acuity and hand-eye coordination.

I think he is lazy and has a horrific basketball IQ equal to JR Smith. Melo has called Bargs out for being lazy, Amar'e has and so has Woodson.

Is anybody at your job lazy ? So such is the NBA.

after the 10/11 season:

Andrea Bargnani took some veiled shots from Amir Johnson who classified the need for a “legit center” as an off-season task, the same with DeRozan who was seeking a “veteran big down there that knows how to play in the paint”, clearly descriptions different than Bargnani’s game. The most interesting piece of the pie came from Bargnani himself, who stated: “I do things that are more complicated than rebounds and defence”.

Bargnani was recently interviewed by an Italian television station and was asked about his rebounding woes. Guess what he said.

"I play basketball, not rebound-ball."

Nothing wrong with being a specialty player, what's wrong is when dumb management pay them as if they do much more.

Players can do what they want it's the management that must evaluate a players heart and ability and pay them accordingly.

Bargs didn't ask to be picked #1 overall. Toronto wanted to sell tickets and encourage the Euro population into the NBA

NardDogNation wrote:

misterearl wrote:Special players work at their craft and add nuance to their game at every opportunity.

Say what you will about Carmelo Anthony being self-centered, stubborn or lacking the social graces... No one EVER said he did not work his as off. (Cue the nixluva D'Antoni defense in 4... 3... 2... )

Andrea Bargnani would only need to average 18.3 points 9.5 rebounds and 5 assist and New York Knicks followers would throw him a parade.

I don't think he is lazy, he just has horrible reflexes, which is in part innate. Offensively, he's fine because he can think of what he, wants to do before doing it but defensively, it makes for a nightmare. There are so many highlights of him getting lost and not even covering a man because he's so slow to react on switches. Somebody needs to get that man Luminosity for his birthday to see if he can develop his mental acuity and hand-eye coordination.

Horrible reflexes or muscles too poorly trained?

Bargnani is not a worker. Aren't there coaches who specialize in optimizing performance via all sorts if new age techniques? If the head athletic trainer for Stanford's football team can pioneer conditioning and reaction drills for football, certainly Cablevision would spring for the extra equipment.

No, my brothers...Reflexes, strength, muscle twitch... whatever you wanna call it... however innate or earned ... Can be improved.

Was Larry Bird blessed with outstanding physical gifts? Nope. He worked his ass off.

Bargnani's free pass expires in February

misterearl wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

misterearl wrote:Special players work at their craft and add nuance to their game at every opportunity.

Say what you will about Carmelo Anthony being self-centered, stubborn or lacking the social graces... No one EVER said he did not work his as off. (Cue the nixluva D'Antoni defense in 4... 3... 2... )

Andrea Bargnani would only need to average 18.3 points 9.5 rebounds and 5 assist and New York Knicks followers would throw him a parade.

I don't think he is lazy, he just has horrible reflexes, which is in part innate. Offensively, he's fine because he can think of what he, wants to do before doing it but defensively, it makes for a nightmare. There are so many highlights of him getting lost and not even covering a man because he's so slow to react on switches. Somebody needs to get that man Luminosity for his birthday to see if he can develop his mental acuity and hand-eye coordination.

Horrible reflexes or muscles too poorly trained?

Bargnani is not a worker. Aren't there coaches who specialize in optimizing performance via all sorts if new age techniques? If the head athletic trainer for Stanford's football team can pioneer conditioning and reaction drills for football, certainly Cablevision would spring for the extra equipment.

No, my brothers...Reflexes, strength, muscle twitch... whatever you wanna call it... however innate or earned ... Can be improved.

Was Larry Bird blessed with outstanding physical gifts? Nope. He worked his ass off.

Bargnani's free pass expires in February

There have been plenty of doughboys in the league that had excellent reflexes and reaction time e.g. Kevin Love when he first got drafted, Zach Randolph when he first got drafted, Mike Sweetney, Glen Davis, etc. Bargnani's conditioning may have something to do with his poor reflexes but I think he is definitely in better shape than those guys were. Some guys are born just being slow, in that respect. I think the tell-tale sign about reflexes being the problem is his ability to get so lost on switches, which the guys at The Starters (awful show) point out all the time as a running joke. He's also really easy to shooter over despite being a 7fter. I'll see if I can find some youtube videos to support my point....

P.S., I am by no means even close to being a Bargnani supporter. I never liked the trade to get him and I definitely don't care for what I'm seeing from him. I'm sure there are techniques for improving his mental acuity but he's already 30ish and the brain loses a great deal of it's plasticity (it's ability to adapt/improve) by this point.

NardDogNation wrote:

misterearl wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

misterearl wrote:Special players work at their craft and add nuance to their game at every opportunity.

Say what you will about Carmelo Anthony being self-centered, stubborn or lacking the social graces... No one EVER said he did not work his as off. (Cue the nixluva D'Antoni defense in 4... 3... 2... )

Andrea Bargnani would only need to average 18.3 points 9.5 rebounds and 5 assist and New York Knicks followers would throw him a parade.

I don't think he is lazy, he just has horrible reflexes, which is in part innate. Offensively, he's fine because he can think of what he, wants to do before doing it but defensively, it makes for a nightmare. There are so many highlights of him getting lost and not even covering a man because he's so slow to react on switches. Somebody needs to get that man Luminosity for his birthday to see if he can develop his mental acuity and hand-eye coordination.

Horrible reflexes or muscles too poorly trained?

Bargnani is not a worker. Aren't there coaches who specialize in optimizing performance via all sorts if new age techniques? If the head athletic trainer for Stanford's football team can pioneer conditioning and reaction drills for football, certainly Cablevision would spring for the extra equipment.

No, my brothers...Reflexes, strength, muscle twitch... whatever you wanna call it... however innate or earned ... Can be improved.

Was Larry Bird blessed with outstanding physical gifts? Nope. He worked his ass off.

Bargnani's free pass expires in February

There have been plenty of doughboys in the league that had excellent reflexes and reaction time e.g. Kevin Love when he first got drafted, Zach Randolph when he first got drafted, Mike Sweetney, Glen Davis, etc. Bargnani's conditioning may have something to do with his poor reflexes but I think he is definitely in better shape than those guys were. Some guys are born just being slow, in that respect. I think the tell-tale sign about reflexes being the problem is his ability to get so lost on switches, which the guys at The Starters (awful show) point out all the time as a running joke. He's also really easy to shooter over despite being a 7fter. I'll see if I can find some youtube videos to support my point....

P.S., I am by no means even close to being a Bargnani supporter. I never liked the trade to get him and I definitely don't care for what I'm seeing from him. I'm sure there are techniques for improving his mental acuity but he's already 30ish and the brain loses a great deal of it's plasticity (it's ability to adapt/improve) by this point.

Bargnani is 28, one of the younger guys on the team

djsunyc wrote:after the 10/11 season:

Andrea Bargnani took some veiled shots from Amir Johnson who classified the need for a “legit center” as an off-season task, the same with DeRozan who was seeking a “veteran big down there that knows how to play in the paint”, clearly descriptions different than Bargnani’s game. The most interesting piece of the pie came from Bargnani himself, who stated: “I do things that are more complicated than rebounds and defence”.

Bargnani was recently interviewed by an Italian television station and was asked about his rebounding woes. Guess what he said.

"I play basketball, not rebound-ball."

lol for some reason that reminded me of antoine walker..
reporter: "hey antoine, why do you shoot so many 3's?"
antoine" "because there ain't no 4's"

lol.

NYY1NYK2 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

misterearl wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

misterearl wrote:Special players work at their craft and add nuance to their game at every opportunity.

Say what you will about Carmelo Anthony being self-centered, stubborn or lacking the social graces... No one EVER said he did not work his as off. (Cue the nixluva D'Antoni defense in 4... 3... 2... )

Andrea Bargnani would only need to average 18.3 points 9.5 rebounds and 5 assist and New York Knicks followers would throw him a parade.

I don't think he is lazy, he just has horrible reflexes, which is in part innate. Offensively, he's fine because he can think of what he, wants to do before doing it but defensively, it makes for a nightmare. There are so many highlights of him getting lost and not even covering a man because he's so slow to react on switches. Somebody needs to get that man Luminosity for his birthday to see if he can develop his mental acuity and hand-eye coordination.

Horrible reflexes or muscles too poorly trained?

Bargnani is not a worker. Aren't there coaches who specialize in optimizing performance via all sorts if new age techniques? If the head athletic trainer for Stanford's football team can pioneer conditioning and reaction drills for football, certainly Cablevision would spring for the extra equipment.

No, my brothers...Reflexes, strength, muscle twitch... whatever you wanna call it... however innate or earned ... Can be improved.

Was Larry Bird blessed with outstanding physical gifts? Nope. He worked his ass off.

Bargnani's free pass expires in February

There have been plenty of doughboys in the league that had excellent reflexes and reaction time e.g. Kevin Love when he first got drafted, Zach Randolph when he first got drafted, Mike Sweetney, Glen Davis, etc. Bargnani's conditioning may have something to do with his poor reflexes but I think he is definitely in better shape than those guys were. Some guys are born just being slow, in that respect. I think the tell-tale sign about reflexes being the problem is his ability to get so lost on switches, which the guys at The Starters (awful show) point out all the time as a running joke. He's also really easy to shooter over despite being a 7fter. I'll see if I can find some youtube videos to support my point....

P.S., I am by no means even close to being a Bargnani supporter. I never liked the trade to get him and I definitely don't care for what I'm seeing from him. I'm sure there are techniques for improving his mental acuity but he's already 30ish and the brain loses a great deal of it's plasticity (it's ability to adapt/improve) by this point.

Bargnani is 28, one of the younger guys on the team

Neural plasticity peaks at 25 on average though. Besides, most NBA players become irrelevant by 32-33. Bargnani is fast approaching that cut off and I don't expect him to make it much further beyond it.

Bargs is a low motor guy who isn't motivated every night he steps on the floor...I think it might have a lot to do with where u are from as well...I remember when as a kid and I played ball, we wanted to beat everyone, anywhere at anytime in any weather...There was crazy competition in the city..You had to have an edge to ball in the city..I'm sure its the same way across the US...Who knows if that environment exist in Italy, where guys are just trying to kill each other on the court in every game...Bargs looks like he is going thru the motions every night..He isn't a starter in my opinion, he can be a really good player off the bench..

His body looks like he never did 1 push up in his life. He's a guy who had physical skills to be really good but obviously didn't go the extra miles to get there. Hey we saw his game before we bought it. That's on us. Same thing with e curry

holfresh wrote:Bargs is a low motor guy who isn't motivated every night he steps on the floor...I think it might have a lot to do with where u are from as well...I remember when as a kid and I played ball, we wanted to beat everyone, anywhere at anytime in any weather...There was crazy competition in the city..You had to have an edge to ball in the city..I'm sure its the same way across the US...Who knows if that environment exist in Italy, where guys are just trying to kill each other on the court in every game...Bargs looks like he is going thru the motions every night..He isn't a starter in my opinion, he can be a really good player off the bench..

I agree for the most part. I think you're off with the Italy thing because things become problematic when you generalize an entire people/culture given how diverse things are in spite of these commonalities. Besides, Marco Bellineli (a favorite of mine) and Gallo are both Italian and are known for being aggressive, fiesty players. Bargnani just doesn't have that personality. In a way, he is this generations Vladimir Radmanovic (though I thought Vlad-Rad was better). Both guys were stretch big men that had the talent but zero drive to perform consistently. Just to beat a dead horse, it's why I thought we were dumb for giving up picks for this guy. Guys like Bargnani grow on trees (see Anthony Tolliver, Shawne Williams, Matt Bonner, Steve Novak, Linas Kleiza, Josh McRoberts, present day versions of Rashard Lewis,Troy Murphy and Antawn Jamison, etc.), so there was no need to give up assets for him.

Bargs game is very correctable...Couple of small things...First he needs to work out in the offseason..His game needs more energy for a longer period of time... Second, he needs to gather himself on layups..Much like Melo is always on balance when driving..Bargs is always falling or off balance when he releases...

NardDogNation wrote:

holfresh wrote:Bargs is a low motor guy who isn't motivated every night he steps on the floor...I think it might have a lot to do with where u are from as well...I remember when as a kid and I played ball, we wanted to beat everyone, anywhere at anytime in any weather...There was crazy competition in the city..You had to have an edge to ball in the city..I'm sure its the same way across the US...Who knows if that environment exist in Italy, where guys are just trying to kill each other on the court in every game...Bargs looks like he is going thru the motions every night..He isn't a starter in my opinion, he can be a really good player off the bench..

I agree for the most part. I think you're off with the Italy thing because things become problematic when you generalize an entire people/culture given how diverse things are in spite of these commonalities. Besides, Marco Bellineli (a favorite of mine) and Gallo are both Italian and are known for being aggressive, fiesty players. Bargnani just doesn't have that personality. In a way, he is this generations Vladimir Radmanovic (though I thought Vlad-Rad was better). Both guys were stretch big men that had the talent but zero drive to perform consistently. Just to beat a dead horse, it's why I thought we were dumb for giving up picks for this guy. Guys like Bargnani grow on trees (see Anthony Tolliver, Matt Bonner, Steve Novak, Linas Kleiza, Josh McRoberts present day versions of Rashard Lewis and Antawn Jamison, etc.), so there was no need to give up assets for him.

I disagree, Gallo is too passive a player, which is why I made the assertion...Belinelli is the only guy who goes after it...

Nope he's just a NY Knick. Low IQ low effort player.

Of course he is lazy. One game you grab double figure rebounds the next you grab 3,4. You see when Melo gives full effort he grabs 10 boards in his sleep.

The problem is that Felton, Bargs, Melo, Smith often come out and don't give full effort. The reason the Bulls are in every game is because they always play hard.

MS wrote:Nope he's just a NY Knick. Low IQ low effort player.

Of course he is lazy. One game you grab double figure rebounds the next you grab 3,4. You see when Melo gives full effort he grabs 10 boards in his sleep.

The problem is that Felton, Bargs, Melo, Smith often come out and don't give full effort. The reason the Bulls are in every game is because they always play hard.

I'm not sure I totally agree about the effort part. Melo, especially, has worked hard the past few seasons on conditioning and hisgame. I think Bargs does have a problem with focus. Some guys are able to multi-task. Some guys need their roles to be broken down for them in a way that's more digestable.

holfresh wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

holfresh wrote:Bargs is a low motor guy who isn't motivated every night he steps on the floor...I think it might have a lot to do with where u are from as well...I remember when as a kid and I played ball, we wanted to beat everyone, anywhere at anytime in any weather...There was crazy competition in the city..You had to have an edge to ball in the city..I'm sure its the same way across the US...Who knows if that environment exist in Italy, where guys are just trying to kill each other on the court in every game...Bargs looks like he is going thru the motions every night..He isn't a starter in my opinion, he can be a really good player off the bench..

I agree for the most part. I think you're off with the Italy thing because things become problematic when you generalize an entire people/culture given how diverse things are in spite of these commonalities. Besides, Marco Bellineli (a favorite of mine) and Gallo are both Italian and are known for being aggressive, fiesty players. Bargnani just doesn't have that personality. In a way, he is this generations Vladimir Radmanovic (though I thought Vlad-Rad was better). Both guys were stretch big men that had the talent but zero drive to perform consistently. Just to beat a dead horse, it's why I thought we were dumb for giving up picks for this guy. Guys like Bargnani grow on trees (see Anthony Tolliver, Matt Bonner, Steve Novak, Linas Kleiza, Josh McRoberts present day versions of Rashard Lewis and Antawn Jamison, etc.), so there was no need to give up assets for him.

I disagree, Gallo is too passive a player, which is why I made the assertion...Belinelli is the only guy who goes after it...

Gallo was getting to the line almost as frequently as Melo, the season we traded him. When he came into the league, I'd agree with you but he's steadily gotten more assertive in driving to the lane and/or drawing contact.

I see a player who can't stay amped up for an entire game. More often than not this season Bargs comes out of the gate strong but loses intensity with each quarter. Some players run out of mental energy faster, for lack of a better word, than others. The only remedy for this while he is on the team is to keep Bargs involved in the offense in the second half (at times he has been frozen out) and for his coach and teammates to get on his case when he drifts. They shouldn't have to but there are other players on this team who have flaws in their game which could be easily remedied if they put in more effort. Don't believe they're being lazy either, just part of their mental makeup. Its not like he's Eddy Curry.

MS wrote:Nope he's just a NY Knick. Low IQ low effort player.

Of course he is lazy. One game you grab double figure rebounds the next you grab 3,4. You see when Melo gives full effort he grabs 10 boards in his sleep.

The problem is that Felton, Bargs, Melo, Smith often come out and don't give full effort. The reason the Bulls are in every game is because they always play hard.

Melo doesn't deserve to be on that list. That dude grabs 9rpg, which is just short of 10. Clearly he's not dogging it if this is the baseline, especially while scoring in the fashion he scores and as a league leader.