There's no way in hell that Loul Deng is worth two first round picks that will probably be lottery picks in a few short years once the protection wears off. The Knicks should start to target dumb teams like the Cavs who continually make these trades and shoot themselves in the foot for the long-term. I thought there was a good chance that if we hit the reset button already that we could've made another trade with miscellaneous assets to get their 2014 first round pick. Yet another missed opportunity.
Um... the Knicks are one of these "dumb teams like the Cavs who continually make these trades and shoot themselves in the foot for the long term."
both teams are a bit dumb, the bulls let Nate walk last yr and kept a injury prone kirk. The cavs realize that building through the draft is a long long long road back to respectibilty..
This is a decent trade for both parties
I don't mean to be rude but I can't imagine how absurd this thread title looks to outsiders since it's on a Knicks board. At least the Cavs protected the pick they gave up. And Deng is a good 2 way player. It's a bad deal but not in the neighborhood of the deals our franchise does. We gave up an unprotected pick for Bargnani!
Panos wrote:Um... the Knicks are one of these "dumb teams like the Cavs who continually make these trades and shoot themselves in the foot for the long term."
You don't think I know that? But at least we'd have a shot of the other dumb team out-dumbing us, lmfao.
knicks1248 wrote:both teams are a bit dumb, the bulls let Nate walk last yr and kept a injury prone kirk. The cavs realize that building through the draft is a long long long road back to respectibilty..This is a decent trade for both parties
I still think that the Bulls made the right decision letting Nate go. Yes, he was the better player between he and Kirk but that doesn't matter in the longer term game. By doing what they did, the Bulls are now able to position themselves for the no.1 overall pick, now that Rose is out the season. The last time they did something like this (being a playoff contender that had a down year), they walked away with Derrick Rose, which is why they made the right call. Come this offseason, I wouldn't be surprised if the Bulls walked away with Melo. These prospects are more fruitful to me than keeping Nate Robinson to stay in the playoff hunt.
And Deng is on the wrong side of 30. You don't give up two draft picks for that especially given how mismatched their core is. Their best bet was to continue tanking in hopes of drafting of a franchise player, not trade for a guy that is already on the decline and will formally be out of his prime in 2-3 years.
NardDogNation wrote:Panos wrote:Um... the Knicks are one of these "dumb teams like the Cavs who continually make these trades and shoot themselves in the foot for the long term."
You don't think I know that? But at least we'd have a shot of the other dumb team out-dumbing us, lmfao.
Yeah I'm not so sure about that...
those pics are pretty protected. seems like the best the bulls can get is a late lottery to mid first pick with a bigger chance of just getting a couple of 2nds instead.
whatever the case, they have made the decision to move on from deng, probably amnesty boozer and coule be a competitor for melo in the offseason. they already have rose + noah and will have a decent draft pick. this move only helps the bulls if they are able to acquire a big player down the road.
Bonn1997 wrote:I don't mean to be rude but I can't imagine how absurd this thread title looks to outsiders since it's on a Knicks board. At least the Cavs protected the pick they gave up. And Deng is a good 2 way player. It's a bad deal but not in the neighborhood of the deals our franchise does. We gave up an unprotected pick for Bargnani!
Fair points. It just seems to me like the Cavs are in denial of what they truly are. Deng's the kind of guy that a contender trades for, not a team that is in flux and among the worst in the league. The details of the trade are still coming out but I would imagine that the protection will only go so far if the picks become deferred. And when that happens, they might end up being the Memphis Grizzlies of 2003 that gave away the 2nd overall pick for Otis Thorpe in 1997.
To the Knicks defense (and I don't know why I am defending them), Denver has the right to have swapped the 2016 pick so even if we sucked, we'd still be losing it. Genius, right? I hated the Bargnani deal though, so I'm right there with you.
I still don't get the Anthony Bennett pick, not just saying this in hindsight. I believe he has asthma problems and there were better choices out there, players who stood a better chance of playing like the number one pick. Looks like the work of a GM who tried to be too clever by half.
Luol Deng still doesn't make up for taking Anthony Bennett.
GustavBahler wrote:I still don't get the Anthony Bennett pick, not just saying this in hindsight. I believe he has asthma problems and there were better choices out there, players who stood a better chance of playing like the number one pick. Looks like the work of a GM who tried to be too clever by half.
That's been the story of the Cavs for years now under different management. They can't get anything right in the draft unless it's a sure-fire pick I.e. Kyrie Irving or LeBron James. Bennett's been a disappointment but I think a lot of it has to do with Mike Brown being grossly overrated and really a bum coach. He's Mike Woodson but with a vengeance.
If they plan to resign Deng then its a trade that might make sense for them.
Regarding Bennet, it was an awful draft to begin with and a third into the season I doubt we can fully write off as being awful.
Deng will go a long way to help Irving and bring some veteran leadership to the clubhouse.
Im not even going to blast the Cavs because in my book, even after a 54 game season they are a better run franchise then we are!
My take is Cav's and every other team in the league will win a championship before the knicks until we change our decision making process!
They at least protected themselves with Bynum and turned him into Deng. THe picks are protected and Cav's are young enough so a guy like Deng makes sense. If they can't sign him, then it gets stupid.
I've learned that deals like Memphis did with Pau to not call them out becuase the "chess game" of one move begets another is something we always can't see. People called it a "fix" that the lakers got Pau but basically it got them a pick, Zbo and Marc Gasol. They became a very good team, boosted attendance and raised the value of the franchise that was eventually sold.
Cleveland has been a real big disappointment this year. Get in line.
Nalod wrote:If they plan to resign Deng then its a trade that might make sense for them.Regarding Bennet, it was an awful draft to begin with and a third into the season I doubt we can fully write off as being awful.
Deng will go a long way to help Irving and bring some veteran leadership to the clubhouse.
Im not even going to blast the Cavs because in my book, even after a 54 game season they are a better run franchise then we are!
My take is Cav's and every other team in the league will win a championship before the knicks until we change our decision making process!
They at least protected themselves with Bynum and turned him into Deng. THe picks are protected and Cav's are young enough so a guy like Deng makes sense. If they can't sign him, then it gets stupid.
I've learned that deals like Memphis did with Pau to not call them out becuase the "chess game" of one move begets another is something we always can't see. People called it a "fix" that the lakers got Pau but basically it got them a pick, Zbo and Marc Gasol. They became a very good team, boosted attendance and raised the value of the franchise that was eventually sold.
Cleveland has been a real big disappointment this year. Get in line.
I think the picks and the 2015 swap will determine if the trade was a bad deal or not. The thing about protection is that it is not indefinite and eventually expires. Yes, the Cavs protected themselves in the immediate future but for how long is the question? I don't see this team making the playoffs and Deng, a complimentary player at best, doesn't change that prediction for me. This deal has an Eddy Curry/Otis Thorpe type feel to me. No, the situations are not exactly the same but it feels just as myopic and every bit as combustible. I guess time will tell.
That's not unique to the Cavs. I've never heard of any team putting permanent protection on a pick
NardDogNation wrote:There's no way in hell that Loul Deng is worth two first round picks that will probably be lottery picks in a few short years once the protection wears off. The Knicks should start to target dumb teams like the Cavs who continually make these trades and shoot themselves in the foot for the long-term. I thought there was a good chance that if we hit the reset button already that we could've made another trade with miscellaneous assets to get their 2014 first round pick. Yet another missed opportunity.
The Kings 2014 pick is top 10 or 12 protected. The 2015 pick swap is something like top 14 protected. If you're going to trade picks, protect them. One of them turns into 2 second rounders if they are still protected after 2 seasons.
Bonn1997 wrote:That's not unique to the Cavs. I've never heard of any team putting permanent protection on a pick
Fair but then you could understand how things can get much worse (Knicks in 2006 and 2014 worse) if they continue to suck, which they likely will.
WELL No team is run worse than the knicks.. and although the cavs have been shaky with drafting, other than kyrie, this deal is not a typical knick type deal.. because the knicks would have also traded guys like kyrie and thompson along with the picks..
The cavs have a team full of lottery picks, how much more do they need? In this case I can understand such a move... they still have a lot of young talent going forward, including a potential franchise in kyrie...
And on top of that Deng is a very good two way player.. maybe a little wear and tear on his body, but they gave up picks to get a possible top 5 SF who plays both sides of the ball...
NardDogNation wrote:Nalod wrote:If they plan to resign Deng then its a trade that might make sense for them.Regarding Bennet, it was an awful draft to begin with and a third into the season I doubt we can fully write off as being awful.
Deng will go a long way to help Irving and bring some veteran leadership to the clubhouse.
Im not even going to blast the Cavs because in my book, even after a 54 game season they are a better run franchise then we are!
My take is Cav's and every other team in the league will win a championship before the knicks until we change our decision making process!
They at least protected themselves with Bynum and turned him into Deng. THe picks are protected and Cav's are young enough so a guy like Deng makes sense. If they can't sign him, then it gets stupid.
I've learned that deals like Memphis did with Pau to not call them out becuase the "chess game" of one move begets another is something we always can't see. People called it a "fix" that the lakers got Pau but basically it got them a pick, Zbo and Marc Gasol. They became a very good team, boosted attendance and raised the value of the franchise that was eventually sold.
Cleveland has been a real big disappointment this year. Get in line.
I think the picks and the 2015 swap will determine if the trade was a bad deal or not. The thing about protection is that it is not indefinite and eventually expires. Yes, the Cavs protected themselves in the immediate future but for how long is the question? I don't see this team making the playoffs and Deng, a complimentary player at best, doesn't change that prediction for me. This deal has an Eddy Curry/Otis Thorpe type feel to me. No, the situations are not exactly the same but it feels just as myopic and every bit as combustible. I guess time will tell.
what does that mean? ginobili, scottie pippen were both complimentary players.. I think you may be using this term to knock deng.. lets be real, he is probably a top 5 SF in this league.. 19/7/4 and a hell of a defender, I will take that at our SF spot any day....
smackeddog wrote:NardDogNation wrote:There's no way in hell that Loul Deng is worth two first round picks that will probably be lottery picks in a few short years once the protection wears off. The Knicks should start to target dumb teams like the Cavs who continually make these trades and shoot themselves in the foot for the long-term. I thought there was a good chance that if we hit the reset button already that we could've made another trade with miscellaneous assets to get their 2014 first round pick. Yet another missed opportunity.
The Kings 2014 pick is top 10 or 12 protected. The 2015 pick swap is something like top 14 protected. If you're going to trade picks, protect them. One of them turns into 2 second rounders if they are still protected after 2 seasons.
yes, the picks are heavily protected and one of them are the kings pick,not theirs.... if you are dealing picks, this is how it should be done...or in line with this..
