Bonn1997 wrote:gunsnewing wrote:If Melo takes a significant cut and hovers around the $17-21mil range for 5yrs I would consider resigning him. Then you can use the remaining money on players who cover his difficiences and help the team win. Instead of paying Melo closer to $30mil and watching him try to do it alone with NBDL players for another 5yrsSo if I was Mills I would be having that talk with him right now and determine whether to keep or resign him
17 is close. 21 is too much. You can get guys like Millsap and Harden together for that price.
if he wants a shot at winning in ny he should offer to play for 14 million a year. it's the only way and even then it really depends on who would want to play with him. he has such a hard time contributing to offensive cohesion and he is a sub-par defender no two ways about it.
again, who would want to play with carmelo anthony here in new york?
Bonn1997 wrote:gunsnewing wrote:If Melo takes a significant cut and hovers around the $17-21mil range for 5yrs I would consider resigning him. Then you can use the remaining money on players who cover his difficiences and help the team win. Instead of paying Melo closer to $30mil and watching him try to do it alone with NBDL players for another 5yrsSo if I was Mills I would be having that talk with him right now and determine whether to keep or resign him
17 is close. 21 is too much. You can get guys like Millsap and Harden together for that price.
Harden and Milsap for $10.5mil a piece? No way
If Melo's contract starts at $17-18mil you will have plenty of cap room for another great player or multiple good players. You need a PG via draft, trade or FA and another consistent scorer
If Melo wants a $25-30mil per raise then see ya Melo
I'm only paying Lebron that kind of money. And even he is smart enough and wants to win enough to take $17mil per
If Melo is serious about winning he will do that. It's not his fault Dolan overpaid to get him but I feel he owes us at LEAST a chance at a ring
gunsnewing wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:gunsnewing wrote:If Melo takes a significant cut and hovers around the $17-21mil range for 5yrs I would consider resigning him. Then you can use the remaining money on players who cover his difficiences and help the team win. Instead of paying Melo closer to $30mil and watching him try to do it alone with NBDL players for another 5yrsSo if I was Mills I would be having that talk with him right now and determine whether to keep or resign him
17 is close. 21 is too much. You can get guys like Millsap and Harden together for that price.
Harden and Milsap for $10.5mil a piece? No way
If Melo's contract starts at $17-18mil you will have plenty of cap room for another great player or multiple good players. You need a PG via draft, trade or FA and another consistent scorer
If Melo wants a $25-30mil per raise then see ya Melo
I'm only paying Lebron that kind of money. And even he is smart enough and wants to win enough to take $17mil per
If Melo is serious about winning he will do that. It's not his fault Dolan overpaid to get him but I feel he owes us at LEAST a chance at a ring
Harden and Millsap are at 23 mil. So it is close to 21. I was talking about what we needed to do in the past, not that we could get them now for that price. You need to find the next Harden and Millsap, etc, or basically the next undervalued players. Then you need to have the cap room to get them or the trade assets (and trade assets won't be an option any time soon for us!)
dk7th wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:gunsnewing wrote:If Melo takes a significant cut and hovers around the $17-21mil range for 5yrs I would consider resigning him. Then you can use the remaining money on players who cover his difficiences and help the team win. Instead of paying Melo closer to $30mil and watching him try to do it alone with NBDL players for another 5yrsSo if I was Mills I would be having that talk with him right now and determine whether to keep or resign him
17 is close. 21 is too much. You can get guys like Millsap and Harden together for that price.
if he wants a shot at winning in ny he should offer to play for 14 million a year. it's the only way and even then it really depends on who would want to play with him. he has such a hard time contributing to offensive cohesion and he is a sub-par defender no two ways about it.
again, who would want to play with carmelo anthony here in new york?
Yeah, I was thinking only up to $15 mil but I'd at least give it some thought if he offered $17 mil.
Bonn1997 wrote:dk7th wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:gunsnewing wrote:If Melo takes a significant cut and hovers around the $17-21mil range for 5yrs I would consider resigning him. Then you can use the remaining money on players who cover his difficiences and help the team win. Instead of paying Melo closer to $30mil and watching him try to do it alone with NBDL players for another 5yrsSo if I was Mills I would be having that talk with him right now and determine whether to keep or resign him
17 is close. 21 is too much. You can get guys like Millsap and Harden together for that price.
if he wants a shot at winning in ny he should offer to play for 14 million a year. it's the only way and even then it really depends on who would want to play with him. he has such a hard time contributing to offensive cohesion and he is a sub-par defender no two ways about it.
again, who would want to play with carmelo anthony here in new york?
Yeah, I was thinking only up to $15 mil but I'd at least give it some thought if he offered $17 mil.
Why would he do that though? You know that's not happening, especially now that it is clear that our team is falling apart. Why only get payed 17 million on the Knicks, taking a paycut so management can maybe build a decent team around you, when you can make 21 million a year on a team that already has good pieces in place without the uncertainty? The only reason left for Melo to stay in New York is money, that's it. He's not taking anywhere close to that kind of paycut. Maybe he'll trim down his contract a million for good publicity, but 17 million? 14 million? You guys are talking fairyland numbers, that's not happening.
Oh, I agree. I think it's about a 1 in a million chance.
I'm stating the max I'd offer - that's a decision any GM would have to make. I'm not stating what I think he'd settle for.
Dagger wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:dk7th wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:gunsnewing wrote:If Melo takes a significant cut and hovers around the $17-21mil range for 5yrs I would consider resigning him. Then you can use the remaining money on players who cover his difficiences and help the team win. Instead of paying Melo closer to $30mil and watching him try to do it alone with NBDL players for another 5yrsSo if I was Mills I would be having that talk with him right now and determine whether to keep or resign him
17 is close. 21 is too much. You can get guys like Millsap and Harden together for that price.
if he wants a shot at winning in ny he should offer to play for 14 million a year. it's the only way and even then it really depends on who would want to play with him. he has such a hard time contributing to offensive cohesion and he is a sub-par defender no two ways about it.
again, who would want to play with carmelo anthony here in new york?
Yeah, I was thinking only up to $15 mil but I'd at least give it some thought if he offered $17 mil.
Why would he do that though? You know that's not happening, especially now that it is clear that our team is falling apart. Why only get payed 17 million on the Knicks, taking a paycut so management can maybe build a decent team around you, when you can make 21 million a year on a team that already has good pieces in place without the uncertainty? The only reason left for Melo to stay in New York is money, that's it. He's not taking anywhere close to that kind of paycut. Maybe he'll trim down his contract a million for good publicity, but 17 million? 14 million? You guys are talking fairyland numbers, that's not happening.
then he should be traded the sooner the better. the guy will not win in new york with the salary many think he deserves. it's insane to capitulate to a player who has made it to the second round 20% of the seasons he has played. lets hope he demands a trade. it would be a mutually good thing. we get to end a zero-sum situation and start over and he gets to be a third wheel on some team one step below contending status.
what teams fall into this category and who are what could we get in return? what team is already good defensively, has a decent orchestrator and needs frontcourt scoring?
Bonn the way the Rockets got Harden was little out of the norm. It's not easy to steal and sign a franchise player away from a team. It's rare that a 3rd wheel becomes a available because of salary cap reasons. Major props to. Morey and the Rockets.
Unless you guys have some examples I can see why you might have to resign Melo but not for $130mil. We need some money to build a better team around him
Little Help?
The scoring strain on Anthony's shoulders Thursday was just the latest example of what's been a sizable problem for the Knicks. Their loss to Indiana marked the 10th time since Anthony arrived in New York that he has scored at least 25 points in a game where none of his teammates reached the 15-point mark. To put that into perspective, over those three-plus seasons, no NBA player has had to carry his team's scoring burden more than Anthony, according to Stats LLC.
I do think we have a tendency to watch Melo ISO as the ball sticks but I think putting the ball in th hands of a legitimate pg and allowing him to get everyone involved makes a world of difference. We can still get the ball to Melo but you will have 4 other guys on the court engaged. Defending, rebounding and moving the ball
misterearl wrote:Little Help?The scoring strain on Anthony's shoulders Thursday was just the latest example of what's been a sizable problem for the Knicks. Their loss to Indiana marked the 10th time since Anthony arrived in New York that he has scored at least 25 points in a game where none of his teammates reached the 15-point mark. To put that into perspective, over those three-plus seasons, no NBA player has had to carry his team's scoring burden more than Anthony, according to Stats LLC.
Yes that is unfortunate, but melo has his part to play in that, "the trade", iso-ball, and his apparent reluctance to share the spotlight with Lin come to mind. Does melo have a good roster to work with, no he's working with scraps. However, he's not an innocent victim of mismanagement, he's had his fair share of influence in determining where we are today.
gunsnewing wrote:Bonn the way the Rockets got Harden was little out of the norm. It's not easy to steal and sign a franchise player away from a team. It's rare that a 3rd wheel becomes a available because of salary cap reasons. Major props to. Morey and the Rockets.Unless you guys have some examples I can see why you might have to resign Melo but not for $130mil. We need some money to build a better team around him
You basically have to scan all the data available. That's why I suggested Harden and Millsap before Hou and Atl went after them. I haven't been spending enough time lately to look through all the data but someone paid to do that should be able to
Even with all the data I'd imagine it be nearly impossible to project if a role player on a top team can potentially morph into a franchise player on your team no?
And if we are smart I'm pretty sure we can go after a guy on Milsap's level even after signing Melo to a reasonable contract. I don't want another PF though. Even if Melo stays at he 3. I don't want to take any chances on another Amare/Melo highest paid front court experiment.
That might be reason enough to move Melo because he is not good enough defensively to be your best front court player
This is one reason why I'm setting my price at $17-21mil and not budging
misterearl wrote:Little Help?The scoring strain on Anthony's shoulders Thursday was just the latest example of what's been a sizable problem for the Knicks. Their loss to Indiana marked the 10th time since Anthony arrived in New York that he has scored at least 25 points in a game where none of his teammates reached the 15-point mark. To put that into perspective, over those three-plus seasons, no NBA player has had to carry his team's scoring burden more than Anthony, according to Stats LLC.
Half Truths Never Get You Anywhere
Nets Game
2 assists
2 turnovers
32% usage and 17.8% assist rate = too high a ratio at 1.81:1
52.5 TS%
questionable defense as always
These are not the numbers of a winning player.
Indiana it is even worse:
1 assist
2 turnovers
32.9% usage and 7.0% assist rate = 4.7:1 ratio which is insanely selfish and bad
66.8 TS%
basically indiana says "let him score one on one or in isolation but don't allow him to make plays for others and get others involved." not that he is capable of getting others involved, which makes it easier for the better teams to beat the knicks come playoff time.
Last year against Indiana in the 6-game slaughter averaged per game
1.33 assists
2.50 turnovers
37.7% usage and 8.1% assist rate = 4.65:1 ratio which is insanely selfish and bad
51.1 TS%
but yeah what a heroic effort so lets pay him 25 million a year!
dk7th wrote:Dagger wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:dk7th wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:gunsnewing wrote:If Melo takes a significant cut and hovers around the $17-21mil range for 5yrs I would consider resigning him. Then you can use the remaining money on players who cover his difficiences and help the team win. Instead of paying Melo closer to $30mil and watching him try to do it alone with NBDL players for another 5yrsSo if I was Mills I would be having that talk with him right now and determine whether to keep or resign him
17 is close. 21 is too much. You can get guys like Millsap and Harden together for that price.
if he wants a shot at winning in ny he should offer to play for 14 million a year. it's the only way and even then it really depends on who would want to play with him. he has such a hard time contributing to offensive cohesion and he is a sub-par defender no two ways about it.
again, who would want to play with carmelo anthony here in new york?
Yeah, I was thinking only up to $15 mil but I'd at least give it some thought if he offered $17 mil.
Why would he do that though? You know that's not happening, especially now that it is clear that our team is falling apart. Why only get payed 17 million on the Knicks, taking a paycut so management can maybe build a decent team around you, when you can make 21 million a year on a team that already has good pieces in place without the uncertainty? The only reason left for Melo to stay in New York is money, that's it. He's not taking anywhere close to that kind of paycut. Maybe he'll trim down his contract a million for good publicity, but 17 million? 14 million? You guys are talking fairyland numbers, that's not happening.
then he should be traded the sooner the better. the guy will not win in new york with the salary many think he deserves. it's insane to capitulate to a player who has made it to the second round 20% of the seasons he has played. lets hope he demands a trade. it would be a mutually good thing. we get to end a zero-sum situation and start over and he gets to be a third wheel on some team one step below contending status.
what teams fall into this category and who are what could we get in return? what team is already good defensively, has a decent orchestrator and needs frontcourt scoring?
The problem is Dolan (maybe even Mills) isn't thinking like this. He needs to have to have his star to make money.
For the record, I wouldn't mind having Melo back at a pay cut but I don't expect him to do it.
^Then I hope Melo asks out and we trade him
Yeah that's basically the only way he gets traded
why would melo's pending FA agent hinder anyones game, effort or mental state
gunsnewing wrote:Bonn the way the Rockets got Harden was little out of the norm. It's not easy to steal and sign a franchise player away from a team. It's rare that a 3rd wheel becomes a available because of salary cap reasons. Major props to. Morey and the Rockets.Unless you guys have some examples I can see why you might have to resign Melo but not for $130mil. We need some money to build a better team around him
but one thing guns.. Harden wasn't a franchise player in OKC, and it was not a given that he would be this good once he got to the rockets.. otherwise I am sure OKC would probably have gotten more.. Great timing by the rockets tho, which is why I said before on this site and others, that morey was in no rush to move or do anything drastic with his assets, keep manuevering, keep accumulating and then strike when you see an opportunity...
It may be rare, but that is why every team can't be great.. but in a world of the haves and have nots, you want to be on the side of the haves and to do that, it takes planning, patience and foresight..
Dagger wrote:misterearl wrote:Little Help?The scoring strain on Anthony's shoulders Thursday was just the latest example of what's been a sizable problem for the Knicks. Their loss to Indiana marked the 10th time since Anthony arrived in New York that he has scored at least 25 points in a game where none of his teammates reached the 15-point mark. To put that into perspective, over those three-plus seasons, no NBA player has had to carry his team's scoring burden more than Anthony, according to Stats LLC.
Yes that is unfortunate, but melo has his part to play in that, "the trade", iso-ball, and his apparent reluctance to share the spotlight with Lin come to mind. Does melo have a good roster to work with, no he's working with scraps. However, he's not an innocent victim of mismanagement, he's had his fair share of influence in determining where we are today.
good point.. but lets look at this.. I know fans are now calling this roster.. "scraps" but I mentioned a team yesterday.. the Hawks... do they really have more talent than we do? Can anyone name that teams starting 5?
