Knicks · The Pelicans want to dump Tyreke Evans (page 3)

NardDogNation wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:I'd take a chance on tyreke for sure. I know it was a few years ago but do people forget he was a triple double waiting to happen every night? Can shoot pass rebound, if we can get this guy we should. Everyone is looking for a savior,we just need to start adding good players.

He's not even a good player. He has really low bball IQ and the same exact flaws that he's had since he came into the league. Trading for him would be like trading for the 21st century version of Shandon Anderson, Howard Eisley, Clearance Weatherspoon, etc.

how does anyone who averages 20/6/5 in a year have "low bball iq" none of those players you mentioned are anywhere near the same level of talent as tyreke evans.. wake up bro.

JR Smith posted a similar stat line without the assists, just last year. Isiah Rider put up 19.7ppg, 4rpg and 3apg during his hayday. Same with Ricky Davis. All of them were dumb, albeit very talented, players. More importantly, you had to reach all the way back to Evan's rookie season to find a stat line like that. That was nearly 5 years ago. So I ask, who is really the one that needs to wake up?

uhm, has evans play really deteriorated since that year? about the only that thing changed is that his MPG went down because he was injury-riddled. his 36mpg stats are very similar to his rookie year. the difference between 20/6/5 and 20/4/3 is quite drastic, so your comparison is thin.

A 2apg and 2rpg is not that dramatic especially when you consider that Evans played more minutes and was a primary ballhandler while Smith, Rider AND Davis were all offball guards. And I don't think Evans' play detriorated as much as he's an easy player to figure out, who has not improved. He goes right every-time and still can't shoot jump shots consistently. Worst still is that he stagnates ball movement and is completely useless if the ball isn't in his hand. His play is cancerous, which is why the Kings had no interest in re-signing him and the Hornets want to get rid of him with him just 3 months into his contract. You honestly think that you're onto something that paid professionals are not?

Also, doesn't it worry you guys that a guy who has been in the league for five years hasn't been able to improve upon his rookie season. You can argue that Evans has gotten worse since his rookie year.

NardDogNation wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Hornets were rumored to be shopping Eric Gordon too. So they are trying to maximize the talent on the roster. Remember they do have Austin rivers too. They are trying to move salary to another position

Rivers is a bum. I doubt he'll ever be worthy of being a starter. And if their goal was to maximize the talent on the roster, why are they looking to trade guys now, when their trade value is at a low? I think that they think they made a mistake and are trying to remedy it now as best they can.

I just think they are trying to get better. They need a big man and they could use a small fwd too.

BRIGGS wrote:We could easily put him at starting PG for 40 minutes and that would be a significant upgrade if they went 1-1 with Tyson(they said they wanted a big)

This is insane. Evans is worth about $3 mil a year. His defensive #s are really bad and his offensive efficiency is below average. I'd rather waive Tyson before adding Evans for 4 years $45 mil! (Obviously I'm not saying waive him though)

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:We could easily put him at starting PG for 40 minutes and that would be a significant upgrade if they went 1-1 with Tyson(they said they wanted a big)

This is insane. Evans is worth about $3 mil a year. His defensive #s are really bad and his offensive efficiency is below average. I'd rather waive Tyson before adding Evans for 4 years $45 mil! (Obviously I'm not saying waive him though)

I agree with you but the scary thing is that I still think BRIGGS has a point. You know and I know that our backcourt is horrendously bad, so it wouldn't take much to upgrade the talent level. The only major problem I have with dealing for Evans is the length of his contract. Dealing Tyson for him though, would be ridiculous IMO.

EnySpree wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Hornets were rumored to be shopping Eric Gordon too. So they are trying to maximize the talent on the roster. Remember they do have Austin rivers too. They are trying to move salary to another position

Rivers is a bum. I doubt he'll ever be worthy of being a starter. And if their goal was to maximize the talent on the roster, why are they looking to trade guys now, when their trade value is at a low? I think that they think they made a mistake and are trying to remedy it now as best they can.

I just think they are trying to get better. They need a big man and they could use a small fwd too.

I think they are too but I don't think we should be looking to help them in the process. We'll only screw ourselves in the process.

NardDogNation wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:We could easily put him at starting PG for 40 minutes and that would be a significant upgrade if they went 1-1 with Tyson(they said they wanted a big)

This is insane. Evans is worth about $3 mil a year. His defensive #s are really bad and his offensive efficiency is below average. I'd rather waive Tyson before adding Evans for 4 years $45 mil! (Obviously I'm not saying waive him though)

I agree with you but the scary thing is that I still think BRIGGS has a point. You know and I know that our backcourt is horrendously bad, so it wouldn't take much to upgrade the talent level. The only major problem I have with dealing for Evans is the length of his contract. Dealing Tyson for him though, would be ridiculous IMO.

Yeah, if Evans was available as an FA and we gave him a small 2 year deal, he'd be a big upgrade over what we have. But his contract is ridiculous

Along these lines . . . I'd try to pick up Alexey Shved. Trading Felton, say, for Shved to back up Evans might work. No, I don't think Shved is a starting guard but he's shown streaks of pretty good play and he's probably undervalued a bit playing behind Rubio. The Knicks could make more of them than they can make of Felton. (Might require a different coach. Oddly, I suspect Woodson would be a great coach for Evans. Probably not Shved.)

As awful as the Knicks are, I keep thinking that given their payroll, doh, they should be able to trade for a .500 team. Toronto did it. I'd settle for a competitive team.

who said the pelicans wanna dump evans?...they just signed him

callmened wrote:who said the pelicans wanna dump evans?...they just signed him

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/19298...

Might be looking to go in a different direction now, to free up room in their crowded backcourt, 2nd thoughts on the money they gave him, etc...I was lukewarm on the Chandler for Evans idea early on but have warmed up to it considerably. Dude's a good young, talented guard that can play both backcourt positions. He easily would become the best player Melo's had to play with since joining the Knicks -- Amar'e will never be the same player again, and Evans is better than both JR Smith and Chandler. Friggin' Chandler -- come on, Cole Aldrich could give us similar production to Chandler, maybe even eclipse it, if given the same amount of time...Evans scored 20 points a game in this league already, his rookie year in fact. His last year in Sac, he shot almost 48% from the floor, almost 34% from 3...You get this guy and you arm him with big minutes and carte-blanche freedom on offense...Let him create offense for himself and create plays for others off the dribble...Imagine if we had a guy who could do what Michael Carter Williams is doing in Philly? This guy's capable -- Evans is only 2 years older than MCW and put up a very similar season to what this kid's doing in Philly his rookie year. Better year actually... Not saying the Pelicans go for this deal (I wouldn't if I were them to be honest but it would give them an able 5-man, probably an upgrade over Greg Stiemsma/Alexis Ajinca, and it would free up over $20mm in semi long-term salary. Plus Chandler's played there before and excelled) but I'd definitely offer up Chandler for this guy and see where it leads. The article's right -- they won't have many suitors for Evans - this could turn out to be one of their best options. Just to shed that salary alone which sounds like their chief motivation...If the plan is to keep Melo, go get the best players around the guy we could possibly come up with. This is one idea, a pretty good one at that. And like I said, try like heck to expand the deal -- try and pry away Pierre Jackson as well. TOGETHER, Evans/Jackson could be a monster move for us, for our backcourt. Short and long-term...Our guard play has been horrid -- to me that's been the biggest disappointment. This could be a HUGE upgrade for us...We can always replace Chandler. We went through a 5-game winning streak w/o this guy even playing...Look closely at last night -- Tyler looked very good and very quietly, Cole Aldrich had 8 rebs in 14 mins...Definitely a deal worth pursuing imo..

It all depends what our intentions are with Anthony -- if we're gonna keep him, this deal makes sense. It's a deal Anthony would like. If given a choice, he'd much rather play with Tyreke Evans moving forward than Tyson Chandler. I can almost guarantee that. I know that's how I'd feel...Evans in the mix (+ P-Jax) suddenly makes NY that much more appealing and attractive a situation to remain a part of...And then if we decide we're not keeping Melo, we need to systematically trade away every major piece on this roster for as many draft picks and young/talented, low-salary players as we can get our hands on. Pursue this kid Jackson by himself is a much smaller deal. Go try to find our own Tyreke Evans through the draft and rebuild the whole thing from the ground up, etc.. The Knicks really need to decide which direction they want to go in by the trade deadline. They should have a clear idea already..

Tyreke makes 10 million a year??? If that is correct, I wouldn't take on that kind of contract for him.

If we acquire Evans and got him back to where he was his rookie year in Sacramento, he'd be well worth the money -- we're not talking a $20mm player here; we're talking half that basically. Another thing to like -- the contract he signed with the Pelicans is front-loaded. Here's how Evans' salary lays out this year and over the next 3 seasons:

$11,796,247
$11,265,416
$10,734,586
$10,203,755

Front-loaded contracts are fairly rare but much more attractive to take on...If we could grab this guy and get him back up to his rookie year production-wise (absolutely possible -- all he needs to do is get back up over 37 mins and 16+ shot attempts per -- the production would then follow), that salary suddenly would look very manageable. The rookie version of Tyreke Evans would definitely be worth that type of money (even the Evans in some of his subsequent seasons). Not to mention he'd be extremely easy to move if we ever chose to trade him.

And here's the flip side -- looks like there are two teams surfacing as suitors for Melo -- the Lakers (the one we knew about) and the Bulls.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/carmelo-ant...

Now if the plan is to rebuild, this is looking good -- the Knicks need to go out of their way using the media, agents, players (Kobe vs. D-Rose), fans, Melo himself--any and all hype devices available to them--to create an optimum bidding war between these two teams, much like the one that was created by the Nuggets between us and the Nets. If we're going to rebuild -- the Knicks need to be proactive and pursue this themselves. Pit one team against another, along with any other team that enters the picture, and take it to the limit. Build as much competition between all these teams as possible. Create a frenzy...Under no circumstances can we let Anthony enter FA where we could lose him for nothing. Denver didn't let that happen; we can't let that happen either.

The question here would then be -- do we want Steve Mills overseeing such an important endeavor like this for us? Does this guy have enough smarts to create a bidding frenzy for Anthony and then to bring back the best package possible for him?

Finestrg wrote:If we acquire Evans and got him back to where he was his rookie year in Sacramento, he'd be well worth the money -- we're not talking a $20mm player here; we're talking half that basically. Another thing to like -- the contract he signed with the Pelicans is front-loaded. Here's how Evans' salary lays out this year and over the next 3 seasons:

$11,796,247
$11,265,416
$10,734,586
$10,203,755

Front-loaded contracts are fairly rare but much more attractive to take on...If we could grab this guy and get him back up to his rookie year production-wise (absolutely possible -- all he needs to do is get back up over 37 mins and 16+ shot attempts per -- the production would then follow), that salary suddenly would look very manageable. The rookie version of Tyreke Evans would definitely be worth that type of money (even the Evans in some of his subsequent seasons). Not to mention he'd be extremely easy to move if we ever chose to trade him.

There's a lot of "ifs" involved with Evans. It's been 5 seasons and 2 teams since Evans' rookie season and he hasn't bested it. What makes you think that the most dysfunctional team in the league and easily the most volatile media market will help him turn things around?

NardDogNation wrote:

Finestrg wrote:If we acquire Evans and got him back to where he was his rookie year in Sacramento, he'd be well worth the money -- we're not talking a $20mm player here; we're talking half that basically. Another thing to like -- the contract he signed with the Pelicans is front-loaded. Here's how Evans' salary lays out this year and over the next 3 seasons:

$11,796,247
$11,265,416
$10,734,586
$10,203,755

Front-loaded contracts are fairly rare but much more attractive to take on...If we could grab this guy and get him back up to his rookie year production-wise (absolutely possible -- all he needs to do is get back up over 37 mins and 16+ shot attempts per -- the production would then follow), that salary suddenly would look very manageable. The rookie version of Tyreke Evans would definitely be worth that type of money (even the Evans in some of his subsequent seasons). Not to mention he'd be extremely easy to move if we ever chose to trade him.

There's a lot of "ifs" involved with Evans. It's been 5 seasons and 2 teams since Evans' rookie season and he hasn't bested it. What makes you think that the most dysfunctional team in the league and easily the most volatile media market will help him turn things around?

If we got this guy and gave him the same carte blanche freelance freedom we give JR Smith, we'd have much better results.. Everything compared to JR Smith is better -- much better handle, playmaking skills and an infinitely better driver/finisher at the rim. Just a much better/more complete basketball player than JR Smith by comparison. Using JR Smith because he was our major freelance player last year (and still this year to a degree) besides Melo. Evans could be a much more efficient/much higher % player than JR Smith in that same role (2nd banana). Here's a guard who shot close to 48% his last year in Sacramento, a place where he was excelling at the end and really getting comfortable. He's a guy who carved us up like a turkey on Thanksgiving for 25 pts. the last time the Pelicans were in town w/o taking 1 jumpshot. Not one...He can flat out do things a low IQ chucker like Smith can only dream of. One of those things is make others around him better... Oh yeah, a good 4-5 yrs younger than Smith. He'd be a guy we'd all look forward to seeing every game; unlike Smith, who's a guy we all regret handing out a contract extension to and can't wait to get rid of..How's that for starters?

Finestrg wrote:If we acquire Evans and got him back to where he was his rookie year in Sacramento, he'd be well worth the money -- we're not talking a $20mm player here; we're talking half that basically. Another thing to like -- the contract he signed with the Pelicans is front-loaded. Here's how Evans' salary lays out this year and over the next 3 seasons:

$11,796,247
$11,265,416
$10,734,586
$10,203,755

Front-loaded contracts are fairly rare but much more attractive to take on...If we could grab this guy and get him back up to his rookie year production-wise (absolutely possible -- all he needs to do is get back up over 37 mins and 16+ shot attempts per -- the production would then follow), that salary suddenly would look very manageable. The rookie version of Tyreke Evans would definitely be worth that type of money (even the Evans in some of his subsequent seasons). Not to mention he'd be extremely easy to move if we ever chose to trade him.

The problem is that Tyreke was a bad fit for most teams even as rookie. I'm not sure he'll ever be effective as a starter. He can make plays, but he's not really a point guard. He can score, but he's not dominant enough to justify him taking a lot of shots. He's like JR. Bring him off the bench and leave him in if he's on. I'd have no problem bringing him in, but with the expectation that he's going to become a quality PG. I'd rather have Eric Gordon to be honest.

i remember this thread.. sure could have used tyreke with the way he's been playing lately...

nyk4ever wrote:i remember this thread.. sure could have used tyreke with the way he's been playing lately...

Definitely. I don't see how we couldn't use 10 pts, 5 assists, 4 rebounds while shooting 36% from the field, 16% from 3, and 48%(!!!) from the free throw line during February. We totally should have gotten him, that way Felton might look better in comparison.

VCoug wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:i remember this thread.. sure could have used tyreke with the way he's been playing lately...

Definitely. I don't see how we couldn't use 10 pts, 5 assists, 4 rebounds while shooting 36% from the field, 16% from 3, and 48%(!!!) from the free throw line during February. We totally should have gotten him, that way Felton might look better in comparison.

Oh! And we'd get to pay him $10M/$11M per year through 2016/17!

VCoug wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:i remember this thread.. sure could have used tyreke with the way he's been playing lately...

Definitely. I don't see how we couldn't use 10 pts, 5 assists, 4 rebounds while shooting 36% from the field, 16% from 3, and 48%(!!!) from the free throw line during February. We totally should have gotten him, that way Felton might look better in comparison.

if that's your take on him, congratulations for lacking any depth to your analsysis.

nyk4ever wrote:

VCoug wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:i remember this thread.. sure could have used tyreke with the way he's been playing lately...

Definitely. I don't see how we couldn't use 10 pts, 5 assists, 4 rebounds while shooting 36% from the field, 16% from 3, and 48%(!!!) from the free throw line during February. We totally should have gotten him, that way Felton might look better in comparison.

if that's your take on him, congratulations for lacking any depth to your analsysis.

How much more in depth do you want? The season as a whole his numbers are 12ppg, 4.5 reb and assists, 42% from 2, 20% from 3, 77% from FT. For his career: 16ppg, 5 reb and assists, 47% from 2, 26% from 3, and 75% from FT. Do you prefer advanced stats? Probably not but I'll give them anyway:

             TS%     eFG%     ORtg     DRtg     WS/48     
2013/14     47.6%   41.5%     100      109      0.055
Career      51.4%   46.1%     104      110      0.073

Here's a [url="http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=201936&Season=2013-14"]link[/url] to his shot charts on NBA.com. For those you don't want to check his shot chart this year is almost all red. That's bad. That means he shoots below average from every single area on the floor.

And again, he's getting paid $10M+ per year for another three years after this one. He's a shoot first PG that can't shoot, he's terrible defensively, and he's never been on a good team. While he might marginally improve this team, that's not saying much when we're talking about Raymond "Worst PG in the NBA" Felton. At best, we're fighting for the 7/8 seed and the right to get hammered by Miami or Indy in the 1st round. Again. He also completely fucks up our cap space after next season.

But yeah, he had 3 pretty good games in a row.

I look forward to your well-reasoned, in depth response

VCoug wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

VCoug wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:i remember this thread.. sure could have used tyreke with the way he's been playing lately...

Definitely. I don't see how we couldn't use 10 pts, 5 assists, 4 rebounds while shooting 36% from the field, 16% from 3, and 48%(!!!) from the free throw line during February. We totally should have gotten him, that way Felton might look better in comparison.

if that's your take on him, congratulations for lacking any depth to your analsysis.

How much more in depth do you want? The season as a whole his numbers are 12ppg, 4.5 reb and assists, 42% from 2, 20% from 3, 77% from FT. For his career: 16ppg, 5 reb and assists, 47% from 2, 26% from 3, and 75% from FT. Do you prefer advanced stats? Probably not but I'll give them anyway:

             TS%     eFG%     ORtg     DRtg     WS/48     
2013/14     47.6%   41.5%     100      109      0.055
Career      51.4%   46.1%     104      110      0.073

Here's a [url="http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=201936&Season=2013-14"]link[/url] to his shot charts on NBA.com. For those you don't want to check his shot chart this year is almost all red. That's bad. That means he shoots below average from every single area on the floor.

And again, he's getting paid $10M+ per year for another three years after this one. He's a shoot first PG that can't shoot, he's terrible defensively, and he's never been on a good team. While he might marginally improve this team, that's not saying much when we're talking about Raymond "Worst PG in the NBA" Felton. At best, we're fighting for the 7/8 seed and the right to get hammered by Miami or Indy in the 1st round. Again. He also completely fucks up our cap space after next season.

But yeah, he had 3 pretty good games in a row.

I look forward to your well-reasoned, in depth response

that's a great post and I appreciate all the advanced stats, they are certainly useful. while, i definitely take into consideration all these stats, i also subscribe to the eye test. evans first year in the league, he was a beast, averaging 20pts/5reb/6ast on 46%fg, 25%3fg (Awful), 72games played.. i'd say anyone would be ecstatic with that line, especially with the way he played in college. the following 3 years in Sactown, his scoring numbers did go down, although aside from his 2nd year where his shooting was awful, his shooting %s stayed solid, shooting 45% and 48% in 11/12, 12/13, even with his awful 3pt%. in 2011, evans developed the dreaded plantar fascittis which has plagued many players and is especially going to plague a guy like evans who relies mostly on his athleticism, which is also the reason he started missing about 20 games a year.

so fast forward to this year, kings sick of the injury problems and new ownership, they trade him to new orleans. yes if you want to look at his stats as a whole this year, they don't look great, but it's also because he wasn't starting and was trying to find his way on a new team. is it any coincidence that the three 3 games he started yielded his 3 best stat lines of the year? you can poke fun at me and all you want, i don't care, i know if this guy is healthy, he's not a MARGINAL upgrade over ray felton and if you think so, suit yourself. to me, it seems like he's starting to look like that great college player and rookie in the nba and a triple-double threat every game he plays.