Knicks · Last night's was a reminder of how good Melo is. We should be talking about how to build around him! (page 11)

tkf wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

tkf wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:so basically carmelo contributed more to winning than losing last year, right? another simple question.

no it's not simple, because I said take away any of the players i listed and we would win less.. so no it not simple..

what I do know is that kidd isn't here, as is novak and carmelo is here and we are 17-27.. focus on this year!!!

so now answer my question..

would the knicks have won more games last year if they had a franchise player that actually defended and was a leader?

it is that simple and you have answered whether you like your answer or not. you did say that all of those players had contributed to more wins, in other words carmelo contributed to winning, and since you care about winning, you care about carmelo... which is very touching to see :)

and stop asking hypothetical questions... if you are going to play GM, better come with a REAL example with a NAME that was AVAILABLE.

TFK would built around Gallo and Landry (Melo ruined me) Fields. That would have been awesome

Hey the book is still out on the rest of the league.
Melo, however, when not setting franchise records, is a cancerous loser.

Evan Turner. tkf is actually offering up evan turner in a better-than-Melo post.

Oh well, at least the man obviously loves all this attention.

who cares about individual franchise records.. again, are you a knick fan or a meloser fan? which
one?

go to nba.com look at the standings.

we are not good bro...

Who cares about franchise records? Knicks fans, that's who. Did you even bring yourself to watch that game?

Third in the suckyist division in the weaker conference. Try to define good with Melo actually being on the team, Mr. Knick fan. Since 54 wins meant nothing, 2nd round meant nothing.

You don't change your point of view, tkf. You keep your hate no matter what happens. Enjoy the record while it lasts.

If this does turn around, and something really good happens, what will you do then? Start cheering Melo?

Or start writing a billion posts about how Ray Felton is the MVP of the team?

you are not even worth the debate...lol

Brilliant repose; the mark of a true genius. Try answering one of the questions, since you apparently think you should be seated next to Spike.

Nah, don't bother, I've read enough about Denver 4 years later and the late great JKidd and JLin and Rasheed and one game Kurt Thomas and Mardy Collins...

Nalod prefers what can only happen by accident? And what do we call that?

Despite all the Melohating that masquerades as efficency loving, the man puts the ball in the hole. They haven't changed the rules yet.

Anyone, mature adults included, loves that snap of the net.
Melo is not just for Moobylovers anymore. It's now officially, historically bigger than that.

Cudos for Narddog for calling out the haters for what they are.

That said, Melo isn't a player you can "build around" because he doesn't facilitate or distribute. He doesn't distribute because he doesn't draw double-teams, and he doesn't draw double-teams because he doesn't drive to the hoop consistently enough for assist opportunities. Players are considered "1's" are able to facilitate in some capacity, even if it's to the tune of 5-7 assists per game.

LeBron and Durant drive to the hoop about 6 times a game and shoot close to 60% on drives. Carmelo only drives to the hoop about twice a game and shoots 48% on his drives. That's where the significant difference in their games lies.

30/10 basketball is all good and everything, but 30/10 on 55%-60% driving to the hoop and adding 5-7 assists is different than 30/10 on catch-and-shoot plays and pull-up jumpers from the mid-range at 45% shooting are different things. The reason he play so well on the Olympic teams is because those teams are filled with the above-mentioned consistent penetration guys and those guys maximize what Melo can do. The question we should be asking is if we can get somebody like that and who that guy is. That's why Rondo is discussed so much.

y2zipper wrote:The standings stuff is a team issue, and the Knicks have lots of problems that have nothing to do with Melo, like Amar'e injuries, Felton and JR regressing into totally worthless players and being cap-strapped for the next year and a half.

That said, Melo isn't a player you can "build around" because he doesn't facilitate or distribute. He doesn't distribute because he doesn't draw double-teams, and he doesn't draw double-teams because he doesn't drive to the hoop consistently enough for assist opportunities. Players are considered "1's" are able to facilitate in some capacity, even if it's to the tune of 5-7 assists per game.

LeBron and Durant drive to the hoop about 6 times a game and shoot close to 60% on drives. Carmelo only drives to the hoop about twice a game and shoots 48% on his drives. That's where the significant difference in their games lies.

30/10 basketball is all good and everything, but 30/10 on 55%-60% driving to the hoop and adding 5-7 assists is different than 30/10 on catch-and-shoot plays and pull-up jumpers from the mid-range at 45% shooting are different things. The reason he play so well on the Olympic teams is because those teams are filled with the above-mentioned consistent penetration guys and those guys maximize what Melo can do. The question we should be asking is if we can get somebody like that and who that guy is. That's why Rondo is discussed so much.

well considering that he has the ball a lot and takes over 20 shots per game.. isn't that a contributing factor to why we are where we are? not the main factor, but a contributing factor... how can you say it has NOTHING to do with him? Everyone is to be held accountable at some level..

y2zipper wrote:The standings stuff is a team issue, and the Knicks have lots of problems that have nothing to do with Melo, like Amar'e injuries, Felton and JR regressing into totally worthless players and being cap-strapped for the next year and a half.

That said, Melo isn't a player you can "build around" because he doesn't facilitate or distribute. He doesn't distribute because he doesn't draw double-teams, and he doesn't draw double-teams because he doesn't drive to the hoop consistently enough for assist opportunities. Players are considered "1's" are able to facilitate in some capacity, even if it's to the tune of 5-7 assists per game.

LeBron and Durant drive to the hoop about 6 times a game and shoot close to 60% on drives. Carmelo only drives to the hoop about twice a game and shoots 48% on his drives. That's where the significant difference in their games lies.

30/10 basketball is all good and everything, but 30/10 on 55%-60% driving to the hoop and adding 5-7 assists is different than 30/10 on catch-and-shoot plays and pull-up jumpers from the mid-range at 45% shooting are different things. The reason he play so well on the Olympic teams is because those teams are filled with the above-mentioned consistent penetration guys and those guys maximize what Melo can do. The question we should be asking is if we can get somebody like that and who that guy is. That's why Rondo is discussed so much.

jrodmc wrote:So what do we learn boys and girls?

Nalod prefers what can only happen by accident? And what do we call that?

Despite all the Melohating that masquerades as efficency loving, the man puts the ball in the hole. They haven't changed the rules yet.

Anyone, mature adults included, loves that snap of the net.
Melo is not just for Moobylovers anymore. It's now officially, historically bigger than that.

Cudos for Narddog for calling out the haters for what they are.

CONSPIRACY!!!

THe problem was not Ewing, it was the short sighted rebuilding time and time again to keep him from leaving.
Imagine if it was conspiracy and Stern year in and year out is shaking his head "how in the hell could they not get one chip with Ewing!"

Yes, Jordan had Pippen. NO "Pippen" for Ewing! We had to bank on "The man who gave Tulsa its Crack".......Thats right, a big round for your Johhhhhhhhhn Staaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaks!!!

Mooby says he wants to win. Dude has given us every we asked him to do except evolve into a GOAT.

Silverfuel wrote:You guys want to let Melo walk and leave it up to Steve Mills and James Dolan to rebuild this team? WTF? I think you guys are insane. Do you not remember Shanon Anderson, Howard Eisley and Clarence Weatherspoon in the starting lineup? What makes you think there will be a rebuild post Melo? Donnie tried to rebuild and blew his load with Amare and D'Antoni. You idiots think Dolan will let any other GM rebuild? Not in the remote future. If Melo walks, we are basically looking at a return of the 2001 to 2010 Knicks.

TeamBall wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:You guys want to let Melo walk and leave it up to Steve Mills and James Dolan to rebuild this team? WTF? I think you guys are insane. Do you not remember Shanon Anderson, Howard Eisley and Clarence Weatherspoon in the starting lineup? What makes you think there will be a rebuild post Melo? Donnie tried to rebuild and blew his load with Amare and D'Antoni. You idiots think Dolan will let any other GM rebuild? Not in the remote future. If Melo walks, we are basically looking at a return of the 2001 to 2010 Knicks.

I'm actually interested in what the "get rid of Melo" guys have to say about this. If Melo leaves, Dolans only gonna be looking for his next money maker who will most likely be a similar player because they casual fan likes guys that score a lot of points.

"Tonight on MSG: Rudy Gay and the Knicks take on Carmelo Anthony and the first place Chicago Bulls..."

TeamBall wrote:

y2zipper wrote:The standings stuff is a team issue, and the Knicks have lots of problems that have nothing to do with Melo, like Amar'e injuries, Felton and JR regressing into totally worthless players and being cap-strapped for the next year and a half.

That said, Melo isn't a player you can "build around" because he doesn't facilitate or distribute. He doesn't distribute because he doesn't draw double-teams, and he doesn't draw double-teams because he doesn't drive to the hoop consistently enough for assist opportunities. Players are considered "1's" are able to facilitate in some capacity, even if it's to the tune of 5-7 assists per game.

LeBron and Durant drive to the hoop about 6 times a game and shoot close to 60% on drives. Carmelo only drives to the hoop about twice a game and shoots 48% on his drives. That's where the significant difference in their games lies.

30/10 basketball is all good and everything, but 30/10 on 55%-60% driving to the hoop and adding 5-7 assists is different than 30/10 on catch-and-shoot plays and pull-up jumpers from the mid-range at 45% shooting are different things. The reason he play so well on the Olympic teams is because those teams are filled with the above-mentioned consistent penetration guys and those guys maximize what Melo can do. The question we should be asking is if we can get somebody like that and who that guy is. That's why Rondo is discussed so much.

Huh? Yes he does...

MaTT4281 wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:You guys want to let Melo walk and leave it up to Steve Mills and James Dolan to rebuild this team? WTF? I think you guys are insane. Do you not remember Shanon Anderson, Howard Eisley and Clarence Weatherspoon in the starting lineup? What makes you think there will be a rebuild post Melo? Donnie tried to rebuild and blew his load with Amare and D'Antoni. You idiots think Dolan will let any other GM rebuild? Not in the remote future. If Melo walks, we are basically looking at a return of the 2001 to 2010 Knicks.

I'm actually interested in what the "get rid of Melo" guys have to say about this. If Melo leaves, Dolans only gonna be looking for his next money maker who will most likely be a similar player because they casual fan likes guys that score a lot of points.

"Tonight on MSG: Rudy Gay and the Knicks take on Carmelo Anthony and the first place Chicago Bulls..."

MaTT4281 wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:You guys want to let Melo walk and leave it up to Steve Mills and James Dolan to rebuild this team? WTF? I think you guys are insane. Do you not remember Shanon Anderson, Howard Eisley and Clarence Weatherspoon in the starting lineup? What makes you think there will be a rebuild post Melo? Donnie tried to rebuild and blew his load with Amare and D'Antoni. You idiots think Dolan will let any other GM rebuild? Not in the remote future. If Melo walks, we are basically looking at a return of the 2001 to 2010 Knicks.

I'm actually interested in what the "get rid of Melo" guys have to say about this. If Melo leaves, Dolans only gonna be looking for his next money maker who will most likely be a similar player because they casual fan likes guys that score a lot of points.

"Tonight on MSG: Rudy Gay and the Knicks take on Carmelo Anthony and the first place Chicago Bulls..."

fishmike wrote:

MaTT4281 wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:You guys want to let Melo walk and leave it up to Steve Mills and James Dolan to rebuild this team? WTF? I think you guys are insane. Do you not remember Shanon Anderson, Howard Eisley and Clarence Weatherspoon in the starting lineup? What makes you think there will be a rebuild post Melo? Donnie tried to rebuild and blew his load with Amare and D'Antoni. You idiots think Dolan will let any other GM rebuild? Not in the remote future. If Melo walks, we are basically looking at a return of the 2001 to 2010 Knicks.

I'm actually interested in what the "get rid of Melo" guys have to say about this. If Melo leaves, Dolans only gonna be looking for his next money maker who will most likely be a similar player because they casual fan likes guys that score a lot of points.

"Tonight on MSG: Rudy Gay and the Knicks take on Carmelo Anthony and the first place Chicago Bulls..."

what sucks is if Rose can make a real healthy comeback than Melo probably should go there. Amnesty Boozer and put Melo with Rose and Noah? Melo at the 4 with Rose running the point? Thats a title caliber squad

That's an easy one if you are Melo

Guess Melo is getting the full $30mil from the Knicks if they want to keep him

fishmike wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

y2zipper wrote:The standings stuff is a team issue, and the Knicks have lots of problems that have nothing to do with Melo, like Amar'e injuries, Felton and JR regressing into totally worthless players and being cap-strapped for the next year and a half.

That said, Melo isn't a player you can "build around" because he doesn't facilitate or distribute. He doesn't distribute because he doesn't draw double-teams, and he doesn't draw double-teams because he doesn't drive to the hoop consistently enough for assist opportunities. Players are considered "1's" are able to facilitate in some capacity, even if it's to the tune of 5-7 assists per game.

LeBron and Durant drive to the hoop about 6 times a game and shoot close to 60% on drives. Carmelo only drives to the hoop about twice a game and shoots 48% on his drives. That's where the significant difference in their games lies.

30/10 basketball is all good and everything, but 30/10 on 55%-60% driving to the hoop and adding 5-7 assists is different than 30/10 on catch-and-shoot plays and pull-up jumpers from the mid-range at 45% shooting are different things. The reason he play so well on the Olympic teams is because those teams are filled with the above-mentioned consistent penetration guys and those guys maximize what Melo can do. The question we should be asking is if we can get somebody like that and who that guy is. That's why Rondo is discussed so much.

Huh? Yes he does...

yea.. more evidence that this board is littered with donkees who dont even watch the games but are free to spout garbage as if they know what they are talking out. Melo is constantly doubled. If you actually counted the # of times he passes out of it you would be shocked.

this was funny, because even just listening to games on the radio, they talk about how many times Melo is doubled, and how Bobcats head coach Clifford doggedly tried to stay with single coverage on him and paid for it in the first half of that absolutely meaningless franchise record game last Friday.

Who else on this team do we apply the term "hockey assist" too?

Bonn1997 wrote:

Red1976 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:tkf... this team would be more than decent if it had a true pg, a true 2-way pg that got any kinda burn. carmelo is not the pg and does not have the ball in his hands for most of the offensive shotclock. this is why rasheed and kidd were important last year they knew how to pass. Carmelo is passing the ball well (especially recently). you cannot take credit away from carmelo because kidd and rasheed were available to show the other players how it's done. carmelo cannot do it all... but you are making it seem like he cannot be the difference between winning and losing.

very simple question for you... do you really think that without carmelo the team of last year would have won more games?? i mean come on.

cartman, this team would be better with a SF who can actually play SF, defend, pass and score efficiently....

very simple question for you... do you really think that without carmelo the team of last year would have won more games?? i mean come on.

did I miss a parade or something? you guys keep refering to last year as if that was a championship team.. I don't care if last years team won 24 games.. actually I wish we did.. because we owned our own pick this past draft...

let me ask you this.. lets say without carmelo the team would have won 44 games instead of 54? so what? still not a contender.. still not a championship quality team...

what are your expectations? I want sustained excellence....I don't think you will get that with carmelo on this team..

and thanks for answering my question directly. it was a very simple question which you failed to answer.

He never answer on topic ... Always twisting things to make Melo a bad guy ...

Didn't he just suggest it would be 44 wins?

Thank you TKF bodyguard ! I was actually referring to my own posts with him

I guess that it was not obvious from my post but why do you always need to come to his rescue ?
The guy is unable to give any credit to Melo for anything, this is my point ... In life it is never good to stand only in the extremes ... Some balance is welcome

My only question was "are you at least acknowledging that Melo had a good game ?" Even if you don't like the player he still had an efficient game in a WIN (62 points, 13 rebounds, more than 50% of FG, 100% FT). Is is that difficult to admit, is there any rationale for it ? He never answered to this simple question .. why ? Admitting that Melo had a good game won't break the balance in the force ... Lol. Or the reasons are not rationale and only personal ..

I'm baiting no one ... Just pointing why it is difficult to debate with him when the guy is so thick headed with any Melo related topics

Red1976 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Red1976 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:tkf... this team would be more than decent if it had a true pg, a true 2-way pg that got any kinda burn. carmelo is not the pg and does not have the ball in his hands for most of the offensive shotclock. this is why rasheed and kidd were important last year they knew how to pass. Carmelo is passing the ball well (especially recently). you cannot take credit away from carmelo because kidd and rasheed were available to show the other players how it's done. carmelo cannot do it all... but you are making it seem like he cannot be the difference between winning and losing.

very simple question for you... do you really think that without carmelo the team of last year would have won more games?? i mean come on.

cartman, this team would be better with a SF who can actually play SF, defend, pass and score efficiently....

very simple question for you... do you really think that without carmelo the team of last year would have won more games?? i mean come on.

did I miss a parade or something? you guys keep refering to last year as if that was a championship team.. I don't care if last years team won 24 games.. actually I wish we did.. because we owned our own pick this past draft...

let me ask you this.. lets say without carmelo the team would have won 44 games instead of 54? so what? still not a contender.. still not a championship quality team...

what are your expectations? I want sustained excellence....I don't think you will get that with carmelo on this team..

and thanks for answering my question directly. it was a very simple question which you failed to answer.

He never answer on topic ... Always twisting things to make Melo a bad guy ...

Didn't he just suggest it would be 44 wins?

Thank you TKF bodyguard ! I was actually referring to my own posts with him

I guess that it was not obvious from my post but why do you always need to come to his rescue ?
The guy is unable to give any credit to Melo for anything, this is my point ... In life it is never good to stand only in the extremes ... Some balance is welcome

My only question was "are you at least acknowledging that Melo had a good game ?" Even if you don't like the player he still had an efficient game in a WIN (62 points, 13 rebounds, more than 50% of FG, 100% FT). Is is that difficult to admit, is there any rationale for it ? He never answered to this simple question .. why ? Admitting that Melo had a good game won't break the balance in the force ... Lol. Or the reasons are not rationale and only personal ..

I'm baiting no one ... Just pointing why it is difficult to debate with him when the guy is so thick headed with any Melo related topics

actually realistic.. now let me ask you a question..

are the melo led knicks a good team right now?

just answer that question.. don't want to hear about amare, felton, etc...

MaTT4281 wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:You guys want to let Melo walk and leave it up to Steve Mills and James Dolan to rebuild this team? WTF? I think you guys are insane. Do you not remember Shanon Anderson, Howard Eisley and Clarence Weatherspoon in the starting lineup? What makes you think there will be a rebuild post Melo? Donnie tried to rebuild and blew his load with Amare and D'Antoni. You idiots think Dolan will let any other GM rebuild? Not in the remote future. If Melo walks, we are basically looking at a return of the 2001 to 2010 Knicks.

I'm actually interested in what the "get rid of Melo" guys have to say about this. If Melo leaves, Dolans only gonna be looking for his next money maker who will most likely be a similar player because they casual fan likes guys that score a lot of points.

"Tonight on MSG: Rudy Gay and the Knicks take on Carmelo Anthony and the first place Chicago Bulls..."

LMAO!!!!!

tkf wrote:

Red1976 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Red1976 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:tkf... this team would be more than decent if it had a true pg, a true 2-way pg that got any kinda burn. carmelo is not the pg and does not have the ball in his hands for most of the offensive shotclock. this is why rasheed and kidd were important last year they knew how to pass. Carmelo is passing the ball well (especially recently). you cannot take credit away from carmelo because kidd and rasheed were available to show the other players how it's done. carmelo cannot do it all... but you are making it seem like he cannot be the difference between winning and losing.

very simple question for you... do you really think that without carmelo the team of last year would have won more games?? i mean come on.

cartman, this team would be better with a SF who can actually play SF, defend, pass and score efficiently....

very simple question for you... do you really think that without carmelo the team of last year would have won more games?? i mean come on.

did I miss a parade or something? you guys keep refering to last year as if that was a championship team.. I don't care if last years team won 24 games.. actually I wish we did.. because we owned our own pick this past draft...

let me ask you this.. lets say without carmelo the team would have won 44 games instead of 54? so what? still not a contender.. still not a championship quality team...

what are your expectations? I want sustained excellence....I don't think you will get that with carmelo on this team..

and thanks for answering my question directly. it was a very simple question which you failed to answer.

He never answer on topic ... Always twisting things to make Melo a bad guy ...

Didn't he just suggest it would be 44 wins?

Thank you TKF bodyguard ! I was actually referring to my own posts with him

I guess that it was not obvious from my post but why do you always need to come to his rescue ?
The guy is unable to give any credit to Melo for anything, this is my point ... In life it is never good to stand only in the extremes ... Some balance is welcome

My only question was "are you at least acknowledging that Melo had a good game ?" Even if you don't like the player he still had an efficient game in a WIN (62 points, 13 rebounds, more than 50% of FG, 100% FT). Is is that difficult to admit, is there any rationale for it ? He never answered to this simple question .. why ? Admitting that Melo had a good game won't break the balance in the force ... Lol. Or the reasons are not rationale and only personal ..

I'm baiting no one ... Just pointing why it is difficult to debate with him when the guy is so thick headed with any Melo related topics

actually realistic.. now let me ask you a question..

are the melo led knicks a good team right now?

just answer that question.. don't want to hear about amare, felton, etc...

I already answered to you in a previous post that I was not happy with the current record and that the team is not really good as of now ...

What about you ? You still haven't answered if 62 points, 13 rebounds, efficient percentage of FG and FT and most important à win could be qualified as a good game ? Why try to put it out of context to minimise it ? Crediting a good game to Melo won't be that difficult ... Or should not if you just want to be realistic about this specific game (I use your self attributed description)

tkf wrote:

Red1976 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Red1976 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:tkf... this team would be more than decent if it had a true pg, a true 2-way pg that got any kinda burn. carmelo is not the pg and does not have the ball in his hands for most of the offensive shotclock. this is why rasheed and kidd were important last year they knew how to pass. Carmelo is passing the ball well (especially recently). you cannot take credit away from carmelo because kidd and rasheed were available to show the other players how it's done. carmelo cannot do it all... but you are making it seem like he cannot be the difference between winning and losing.

very simple question for you... do you really think that without carmelo the team of last year would have won more games?? i mean come on.

cartman, this team would be better with a SF who can actually play SF, defend, pass and score efficiently....

very simple question for you... do you really think that without carmelo the team of last year would have won more games?? i mean come on.

did I miss a parade or something? you guys keep refering to last year as if that was a championship team.. I don't care if last years team won 24 games.. actually I wish we did.. because we owned our own pick this past draft...

let me ask you this.. lets say without carmelo the team would have won 44 games instead of 54? so what? still not a contender.. still not a championship quality team...

what are your expectations? I want sustained excellence....I don't think you will get that with carmelo on this team..

and thanks for answering my question directly. it was a very simple question which you failed to answer.

He never answer on topic ... Always twisting things to make Melo a bad guy ...

Didn't he just suggest it would be 44 wins?

Thank you TKF bodyguard ! I was actually referring to my own posts with him

I guess that it was not obvious from my post but why do you always need to come to his rescue ?
The guy is unable to give any credit to Melo for anything, this is my point ... In life it is never good to stand only in the extremes ... Some balance is welcome

My only question was "are you at least acknowledging that Melo had a good game ?" Even if you don't like the player he still had an efficient game in a WIN (62 points, 13 rebounds, more than 50% of FG, 100% FT). Is is that difficult to admit, is there any rationale for it ? He never answered to this simple question .. why ? Admitting that Melo had a good game won't break the balance in the force ... Lol. Or the reasons are not rationale and only personal ..

I'm baiting no one ... Just pointing why it is difficult to debate with him when the guy is so thick headed with any Melo related topics

actually realistic.. now let me ask you a question..

are the melo led knicks a good team right now?

just answer that question.. don't want to hear about amare, felton, etc...

I like when u just talk ball...Felton Chandler and JR are averaging 12 less points per game this year.That's a lot of wins...You are asking a question about the team and u don't want any comments regarding the players that make up the team??..By the way Melo led Knicks did OK last year too, Melo playing the best ball of his career..

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

Red1976 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Red1976 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:tkf... this team would be more than decent if it had a true pg, a true 2-way pg that got any kinda burn. carmelo is not the pg and does not have the ball in his hands for most of the offensive shotclock. this is why rasheed and kidd were important last year they knew how to pass. Carmelo is passing the ball well (especially recently). you cannot take credit away from carmelo because kidd and rasheed were available to show the other players how it's done. carmelo cannot do it all... but you are making it seem like he cannot be the difference between winning and losing.

very simple question for you... do you really think that without carmelo the team of last year would have won more games?? i mean come on.

cartman, this team would be better with a SF who can actually play SF, defend, pass and score efficiently....

very simple question for you... do you really think that without carmelo the team of last year would have won more games?? i mean come on.

did I miss a parade or something? you guys keep refering to last year as if that was a championship team.. I don't care if last years team won 24 games.. actually I wish we did.. because we owned our own pick this past draft...

let me ask you this.. lets say without carmelo the team would have won 44 games instead of 54? so what? still not a contender.. still not a championship quality team...

what are your expectations? I want sustained excellence....I don't think you will get that with carmelo on this team..

and thanks for answering my question directly. it was a very simple question which you failed to answer.

He never answer on topic ... Always twisting things to make Melo a bad guy ...

Didn't he just suggest it would be 44 wins?

Thank you TKF bodyguard ! I was actually referring to my own posts with him

I guess that it was not obvious from my post but why do you always need to come to his rescue ?
The guy is unable to give any credit to Melo for anything, this is my point ... In life it is never good to stand only in the extremes ... Some balance is welcome

My only question was "are you at least acknowledging that Melo had a good game ?" Even if you don't like the player he still had an efficient game in a WIN (62 points, 13 rebounds, more than 50% of FG, 100% FT). Is is that difficult to admit, is there any rationale for it ? He never answered to this simple question .. why ? Admitting that Melo had a good game won't break the balance in the force ... Lol. Or the reasons are not rationale and only personal ..

I'm baiting no one ... Just pointing why it is difficult to debate with him when the guy is so thick headed with any Melo related topics

actually realistic.. now let me ask you a question..

are the melo led knicks a good team right now?

just answer that question.. don't want to hear about amare, felton, etc...

I like when u just talk ball...Felton Chandler and JR are averaging 12 less points per game this year.That's a lot of wins...You are asking a question about the team and u don't want any comments regarding the players that make up the team??..By the way Melo led Knicks did OK last year too, Melo playing the best ball of his career..

No the only interesting and significant parameter here is Melo ! Didn't you get the Melo ? ..... sorry I meant the memo !

And to admit that this specific player had a good game in a win seems like the most difficult thing ever ... Now be serious and let's go back talking about the team but not any of the player except for Melo !

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

Red1976 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Red1976 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:tkf... this team would be more than decent if it had a true pg, a true 2-way pg that got any kinda burn. carmelo is not the pg and does not have the ball in his hands for most of the offensive shotclock. this is why rasheed and kidd were important last year they knew how to pass. Carmelo is passing the ball well (especially recently). you cannot take credit away from carmelo because kidd and rasheed were available to show the other players how it's done. carmelo cannot do it all... but you are making it seem like he cannot be the difference between winning and losing.

very simple question for you... do you really think that without carmelo the team of last year would have won more games?? i mean come on.

cartman, this team would be better with a SF who can actually play SF, defend, pass and score efficiently....

very simple question for you... do you really think that without carmelo the team of last year would have won more games?? i mean come on.

did I miss a parade or something? you guys keep refering to last year as if that was a championship team.. I don't care if last years team won 24 games.. actually I wish we did.. because we owned our own pick this past draft...

let me ask you this.. lets say without carmelo the team would have won 44 games instead of 54? so what? still not a contender.. still not a championship quality team...

what are your expectations? I want sustained excellence....I don't think you will get that with carmelo on this team..

and thanks for answering my question directly. it was a very simple question which you failed to answer.

He never answer on topic ... Always twisting things to make Melo a bad guy ...

Didn't he just suggest it would be 44 wins?

Thank you TKF bodyguard ! I was actually referring to my own posts with him

I guess that it was not obvious from my post but why do you always need to come to his rescue ?
The guy is unable to give any credit to Melo for anything, this is my point ... In life it is never good to stand only in the extremes ... Some balance is welcome

My only question was "are you at least acknowledging that Melo had a good game ?" Even if you don't like the player he still had an efficient game in a WIN (62 points, 13 rebounds, more than 50% of FG, 100% FT). Is is that difficult to admit, is there any rationale for it ? He never answered to this simple question .. why ? Admitting that Melo had a good game won't break the balance in the force ... Lol. Or the reasons are not rationale and only personal ..

I'm baiting no one ... Just pointing why it is difficult to debate with him when the guy is so thick headed with any Melo related topics

actually realistic.. now let me ask you a question..

are the melo led knicks a good team right now?

just answer that question.. don't want to hear about amare, felton, etc...

I like when u just talk ball...Felton Chandler and JR are averaging 12 less points per game this year.That's a lot of wins...You are asking a question about the team and u don't want any comments regarding the players that make up the team??..By the way Melo led Knicks did OK last year too, Melo playing the best ball of his career..

Knick's win
Melo gets majority of the credit for it
Including "HOCKEY ASSIST", when the rest of the league calls it BALL MOVEMENT and hitting the open man but Melo MUST get credit for a number that has no association with him

Melo loses but puts up points he doesn't deserve the blame
Melo's team mates don't produce, deflect gets pushed right to his team mates

How could you ever lose in your arguments?

How many times has Melo shot 30 to 40 shots PLUS, how many were poor shots?
How many times is the ball in Melo's hands?
Melo shoots ALL THE FT's attempts for technical fouls to boost up his stats..

Lets me ask you this, who did Lin with on his streak here?
What his talent lower or higher than the players Melo have now?

No, I don't think Lin could lead us to the the playoffs either but he deserves the credit when he in fact LEAD THE TEAM when Melo was unable to do so with the same players
The team was able to play off his ability to penetrate consistently, we played much better DEFENSE, we got easy transition points, we played TEAM BALL, and he was flirting with triple double numbers when the he was playing as the #1

Instead, Holfresh would rather blast's Lin's 24m for 3 years but credit Melo for his numbers and justify paying him 3x the amount PER YEAR that Lin gets on a MAX YEAR DEAL
Tyson Chandler looked like quite an offensive player with Lin and was highly motivated to play
Novak looked like a steal
Jeffries looked like a solid 2 way player

Fields looked like a solid NBA player with Lin and with Gallo/Wilson Chandler but trash with Melo, like Novak did for the most part
Why is that? Is it coincidence? I don't care what they are NOT doing or doing in Toronto, I am talking about why they did well in NYK with Lin vs without and with Melo and Woodson
If they sucked so much should Lin and pre Melo Knick's were able to play in a DIFFERENT system?

Our style of play is CATERED to Melo, that is what he wanted, that is what he complained about when Lin was here
Now that we have been unproductive in the post season last year (we were blown out every game last year in the playoffs and watch us play this year)
Paul George was defending him 1v1, just like he defended Lebron 1v1
Hibbert was protecting the rim but he did the same vs The Heat....

You say we lack talent, I agree

BUT

I said we greatly overpayed for the trade for a WANT, not a NEED, while you said we just loss "ROLE PLAYERS"
"Getting role players is easy after you get an ALL STAR"
We havent....

Well, we never get the talent needed and ALL YOUR ARGUMENTS and POSTS contradict each other

I am not saying it is Melo's fault, I am saying he isn't the part of the solution
However, IF he wants to stay in NYK to contend, he will have to make sacrifices both on and off the court

It doesn't matter if he drops 100 pts, what we do in the playoffs vs top tier teams, when the game changes, in a 7 game series....

Kobe was unable to lead the team by himself, he had SHAQ in his prime and then he needed Pau, Bynum, Odom, Ariza, and a system that complimented the team, not just him
But we unable to add that type of talent with the way the CBA is constructed now, not if he opts out this summer

My point is you don't build around 1 player, you build around a core
We are unable to have a core till 2015 and still then, we need to carefully use our payroll till then
IF MELO OPTS out this summer for an extension we would be unable to have a core, and you will continue you deflect blame