Knicks · Look at the stats of the starters tonight (page 1)

Shumpert is THE most OVERRATED player Knick fans or Knick management has had in YEARS--he is consistently inconsistent. Our coach is just off with the lineups and we have 3-4 core players who need to be gone. Its NOT our defense its our offense.

Priggy, Shump and Tyson were scoreless for half the game. 3 out of 5 starters can't score and the 4th guy is Felton. That's the game right there

87 minutes and 7 point that is simply unacceptable. That was the total out put of Shump, Chandler and Prigioni. How the hell do you win with that.

Shump, Felton and Tyson combined for 9 points. Shump had no points. Pablo filled up the stat sheet but only scored 5. Agree especially about shump. Felton and chandler are brutal also. All three need to be moved in my opinion.

I completely agree. Starting five should be Tyler,amare,melo,thjr,Pablo... Is Woodson this stubborn he should be starting the best players stop this veteran loyalty bs... Also chandler needs to be packaged in a deal for a pg we don't need chandler... When Tyler came in we were down 9 and he was a big part on defense for us getting it down to one point. And Tyler is even frustrated with Woodson when he took him out he grabbed Woodson to say why are you taking me out..after the time out we went back down by 8.. Chandler is not a bad player he's just not starter material with zero offensive game other then dunks

I don't mind Pablo only scoring 5 points he finds the open man

And is a good defender

Tyson Chandler is the most overrated player in the NBA

fitzfarm wrote:I don't mind Pablo only scoring 5 points he finds the open man

I agree to some extent but you give up a lot because he has zero ability to create his own shot. It's not like he is killing it with assists either.

At 14 mil he is ... He should be coming off the bench 15 to 20 a game

Also cole sits because he is pretty bad on offense but the guy is a monster on the boards. Also he doesn't yell or push coaches. If the Knicks are going to go with a non scorer like shump for d it seems like cole should get some minutes. Shump needs d l time unless they are planning on moving him.

What are you talking about? Woodson is a first ballod hall of fame coach

CrushAlot wrote:Also cole sits because he is pretty bad on offense but the guy is a monster on the boards. Also he doesn't yell or push coaches. If the Knicks are going to go with a non scorer like shump for d it seems like cole should get some minutes. Shump needs d l time unless they are planning on moving him.

If they are planning on moving him I suggest they stop playing him. His play may scare any interested team.

fitzfarm wrote:I don't mind Pablo only scoring 5 points he finds the open man

Who's open? Nobody wants to shoot

He is not playing well

Maybe change is best for him right now

It is about fit and right now he isn't fitting
He is not playing his game, he is trying to be the glue player, sacrificing for the better of the team
Iman belongs on a system that is uptempo, with ball movement, with good defensive players
I compare him to how everyone saw potential in Ariza but until he went to the Laker's, in the right system, he showed what he was capable off with the right players

I guarantee you, if he was on many other teams he would have developed in to a much better player

He was suppose to develop in to a SG/PG
But we don't have a PG

Instead he is being utilized more as a SG without a PG that could defend the PG position or the SG position
He has been playing the SF position when he is NOT a SF, and he is lost
He should have always been developed his handle and PG/SG skills on both OFF and DEF

Woodson inspired Melo to play when Dantoni quit
The VET's lead us last year, with the "CHIP" on the shoulder's in Melo/Felton and the whole Lin Drama

Year 2
JR, Felton, Melo, Kidd all played with a chip, and benefited with the veteran leadership provided
We went HOT and COLD multiple times, but started off really HOT

This year
==========
Woodson is lost, lost the team long ago, the players do not believe in his OFFENSE and DEF philosophy, poor rotations/usage of lineups/rotations, and it shows, while we are missing leaders on the floor from last year, in addition to the *CHIP* and ball movement, penetration of JR and Felton

He is clueless, stubborn, and puts in lineups/rotations that don't work
Takes out players that play well together because he favors certain players while they show they are do not play well together

We made a run with STAT as the #1 goto man, he was looking amazing in the 2nd quarter as we had a spark
With JR handling the penetration
Pablo running the PG, Jason Kidd Role
Tyler doing the dirty work
Tim Hardaway JR spreading the floor

but

he puts Melo in and the ball stops moving
Everyone changes their role for Melo and no I am not blaming him

but we look to play off each other's abilities as a team when he isn't on the floor, rather than playing off Melo

We are just a mess, on the court, off the court, in the locker room.....

We are flawed
From the way our team is built
Our philosophies
Our Coach
Our lineups
Our rotations

Melo plays his best at PF and worst at SF with Chandler at C

Like Chandler, I think Tyler fits in better right now, who constantly shows he plays well and then doesn't play
I think we should probably look to unload, Chandler, Felton, Iman, if we can get value, and clear cap room

Like I said earlier in the game thread the real difference was the 3 ball. Hardaway and Anthony were cold tonight. Unfortunately for Hardaway he is either cold or hot and rarely is lukewarm.

Chandler, Shump and Felton all need to go. The addition by subtraction would allow stupid ass Woodson to play a proper rotation. We need a starting pg and some cap relief.

I'm down to ship chandler to Phoenix for okafor a contract. Go get us Lowry too and let's get this show on the road. I'd even take the chance in bobby brown when he's done with china. That dude should already be on the roster not Beno

This is going to be fun, because there is little doubt that people will give the Knicks the benefit of the doubt in this draft because of the success of Landry Fields. The problem is that in 2010 when he ran the point with Derrick Favors and Gani Lawal, his poor point play was widely panned as the reason Favors had an underwhelming season. He then became the featured player in the Georgia Tech offense this past year, and was an inefficient scorer and mediocre distributor. He will get out and defend incredibly well, but when has there been an NBA team with a defensive specialist who touches the ball on every possession and initiates the offense? There is a reason those guys do not exist. If the Knicks envision him as a shooting guard, can a shooting guard in the Mike D’Antoni system get on the floor when he cannot consistently knock down an open three? The Knicks bought a second round pick and took Josh Harrellson who will set screens, rebound, and hit an open shot. It's difficult to imagine him making an NBA team however.

http://www.nbadraft.net/2011-nba-draft-grades
From draftnets grade of the shump draft. They gave the Knicks a d.

yellowboy90 wrote:Like I said earlier in the game thread the real difference was the 3 ball. Hardaway and Anthony were cold tonight. Unfortunately for Hardaway he is either cold or hot and rarely is lukewarm.

It had nothing to do with makes and misses. It had everything to do with not preparing properly for an opponent and not making adjustments and running the offense.

Can't figure out chandler - can be remarkably invisible on the court for long periods of time. Team defense so flawed, his core strength wasted. rest of game amazingly sub-par.

fitzfarm wrote:And is a good defender

Say what? Prigs is one of the worst defenders on the team. He simply CAN'T keep up with his guy, so he doesn't even try. Yes, he gets some steals, which is fun and momentum shifting, but he gives it all back with horrid man D.