Knicks · Dont know how reliable this source is but claiming Bulls-Knicks are in talks for Carmelo (page 3)

Why is it when we are looking to do a deal for like a Lowry let say, we have to give up Shump, Tim Jr, picks etc..We are offering a top 5 guy we get back garbage ???

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Pick 20 this year or in next years draft?

Either way we still have our 2015 lottery pick, can't trade it hallelujah

Combine that with whatever picks you get for Tyson and you are talking about a Ainte style Boston rebuild. Now we just need to find KG & Allen and draft a Pierce and Rondo

We should be able to get more than that for Melo. We gave up 2 1st rounders, a lottery picked player with high potential, and other good role players for him. I want Noah, not Boozer, if we're giving them Melo. But I might settle for some combination of Augistine, Dunleavy, and/or more picks instead. They're not in the driver's seat. How else are they going to get from where they are now to a top team in the east? What's their plan B? I can't see any glaring alternative for them.

The Knicks didn't give up 2 first rounders. They gave up this years first rounder. They gave the right to swap in 2016 but that pick was traded in the Bargs trade. You can't take away everyone's favorite whining point about the Bargs trade like that. The Knicks also got players back for Melo. Berger wrote a great article on the trade this past weekend. Pretty much said you can't choose a winner yet.

Why all that may be true, what do you think of this hypothetical CHI-NY trade when not placed in the context of what NY gave up for him initially? Additionally, let's assume when Melo had his sit down with Dolan last week or whenever it was, Melo told him he was 100% leaving.

Even assuming all that I agree the package proposed in this article is not enough. Especially becauase the Bulls have no way of adding an impact player of Carmelo's caliber to add to the Noah/Rose core if not for somehow getting Carmelo via trade or as a FA. Also, it's advantageous for CHI to get him in a trade as they get his bird rights and the ability to pay as much as the Knicks.

Anyway, I agree w/ those who say the package is a bit light. For starters, the pick would have to be the Bobcats pick plus CHI's late round 1st. After that, Boozers expiring or another expiring (not sure who else they have in this category) plus a couple young guys the top target of which should be Mirotic. I honestly don't think that is too bad a haul considering we can tank next season and have a ton of space afterwards.

"Well then you need to trade Dolan to Chicago first . . ."

I'd do that deal. Toss in Melo a couple of second rounders and Chicago might take him.

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Pick 20 this year or in next years draft?

Either way we still have our 2015 lottery pick, can't trade it hallelujah

Combine that with whatever picks you get for Tyson and you are talking about a Ainte style Boston rebuild. Now we just need to find KG & Allen and draft a Pierce and Rondo

We should be able to get more than that for Melo. We gave up 2 1st rounders, a lottery picked player with high potential, and other good role players for him. I want Noah, not Boozer, if we're giving them Melo. But I might settle for some combination of Augistine, Dunleavy, and/or more picks instead. They're not in the driver's seat. How else are they going to get from where they are now to a top team in the east? What's their plan B? I can't see any glaring alternative for them.

The Knicks didn't give up 2 first rounders. They gave up this years first rounder. They gave the right to swap in 2016 but that pick was traded in the Bargs trade. You can't take away everyone's favorite whining point about the Bargs trade like that. The Knicks also got players back for Melo. Berger wrote a great article on the trade this past weekend. Pretty much said you can't choose a winner yet.

Oh, I think both teams were losers here.
Unless some miracle happens and we don't do the swap, the Knicks will have ended up giving up 2 1st round picks for Melo. (And they also were going to get one, lower, first round pick back, although now that's gone.)

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Pick 20 this year or in next years draft?

Either way we still have our 2015 lottery pick, can't trade it hallelujah

Combine that with whatever picks you get for Tyson and you are talking about a Ainte style Boston rebuild. Now we just need to find KG & Allen and draft a Pierce and Rondo

We should be able to get more than that for Melo. We gave up 2 1st rounders, a lottery picked player with high potential, and other good role players for him. I want Noah, not Boozer, if we're giving them Melo. But I might settle for some combination of Augistine, Dunleavy, and/or more picks instead. They're not in the driver's seat. How else are they going to get from where they are now to a top team in the east? What's their plan B? I can't see any glaring alternative for them.

The Knicks didn't give up 2 first rounders. They gave up this years first rounder. They gave the right to swap in 2016 but that pick was traded in the Bargs trade. You can't take away everyone's favorite whining point about the Bargs trade like that. The Knicks also got players back for Melo. Berger wrote a great article on the trade this past weekend. Pretty much said you can't choose a winner yet.

Oh, I think both teams were losers here.
Unless some miracle happens and we don't do the swap, the Knicks will have ended up giving up 2 1st round picks for Melo. (And they also were going to get one, lower, first round pick back, although now that's gone.)

A swap is a change in draft position in the same round. This years pick was traded. Two first rounders were not given up in the trade. The right to swap places was given. The swap pick is the first rounder traded for bargs.

BRIGGS wrote:

Nalod wrote:Bulls core of:

Rose, Melo, Noah

KNicks get Stat, Booze and Tyson all off the books at once?

Theyd have to give us both 2014 picks and 2016 + 2nd rounders in 14+15 +16 to make up for what we lost in our trades. I don't like ANY of their players--so it would be a trade flip with another team. If we did this--we'd need to build our own team. Snell and Butler dont do it for me as in flip Butler Boozer and Snell somewhere else for more picks or different young players.
Other possible place is Phoenix they have 3 first rounders this year in a really good draft and I think Melo would be open to resigning there for sure.
Len and 3 2014 # 1's a 2015 #1 Alex Len + Ok4.

I agree. Original package is not enough.

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Pick 20 this year or in next years draft?

Either way we still have our 2015 lottery pick, can't trade it hallelujah

Combine that with whatever picks you get for Tyson and you are talking about a Ainte style Boston rebuild. Now we just need to find KG & Allen and draft a Pierce and Rondo

We should be able to get more than that for Melo. We gave up 2 1st rounders, a lottery picked player with high potential, and other good role players for him. I want Noah, not Boozer, if we're giving them Melo. But I might settle for some combination of Augistine, Dunleavy, and/or more picks instead. They're not in the driver's seat. How else are they going to get from where they are now to a top team in the east? What's their plan B? I can't see any glaring alternative for them.

The Knicks didn't give up 2 first rounders. They gave up this years first rounder. They gave the right to swap in 2016 but that pick was traded in the Bargs trade. You can't take away everyone's favorite whining point about the Bargs trade like that. The Knicks also got players back for Melo. Berger wrote a great article on the trade this past weekend. Pretty much said you can't choose a winner yet.

Oh, I think both teams were losers here.
Unless some miracle happens and we don't do the swap, the Knicks will have ended up giving up 2 1st round picks for Melo. (And they also were going to get one, lower, first round pick back, although now that's gone.)

A swap is a change in draft position in the same round. This years pick was traded. Two first rounders were not given up in the trade. The right to swap places was given. The swap pick is the first rounder traded for bargs.

Right; the change of position occurs because both teams are trading picks.

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Pick 20 this year or in next years draft?

Either way we still have our 2015 lottery pick, can't trade it hallelujah

Combine that with whatever picks you get for Tyson and you are talking about a Ainte style Boston rebuild. Now we just need to find KG & Allen and draft a Pierce and Rondo

We should be able to get more than that for Melo. We gave up 2 1st rounders, a lottery picked player with high potential, and other good role players for him. I want Noah, not Boozer, if we're giving them Melo. But I might settle for some combination of Augistine, Dunleavy, and/or more picks instead. They're not in the driver's seat. How else are they going to get from where they are now to a top team in the east? What's their plan B? I can't see any glaring alternative for them.

The Knicks didn't give up 2 first rounders. They gave up this years first rounder. They gave the right to swap in 2016 but that pick was traded in the Bargs trade. You can't take away everyone's favorite whining point about the Bargs trade like that. The Knicks also got players back for Melo. Berger wrote a great article on the trade this past weekend. Pretty much said you can't choose a winner yet.

Oh, I think both teams were losers here.
Unless some miracle happens and we don't do the swap, the Knicks will have ended up giving up 2 1st round picks for Melo. (And they also were going to get one, lower, first round pick back, although now that's gone.)

A swap is a change in draft position in the same round. This years pick was traded. Two first rounders were not given up in the trade. The right to swap places was given. The swap pick is the first rounder traded for bargs.

Right; the change of position occurs because both teams are trading picks.

Its the right to swap. If the Knicks finish better than the Nuggets they keep their pick. It doesn't go anywhere. A pick didn't change hands.

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Pick 20 this year or in next years draft?

Either way we still have our 2015 lottery pick, can't trade it hallelujah

Combine that with whatever picks you get for Tyson and you are talking about a Ainte style Boston rebuild. Now we just need to find KG & Allen and draft a Pierce and Rondo

We should be able to get more than that for Melo. We gave up 2 1st rounders, a lottery picked player with high potential, and other good role players for him. I want Noah, not Boozer, if we're giving them Melo. But I might settle for some combination of Augistine, Dunleavy, and/or more picks instead. They're not in the driver's seat. How else are they going to get from where they are now to a top team in the east? What's their plan B? I can't see any glaring alternative for them.

The Knicks didn't give up 2 first rounders. They gave up this years first rounder. They gave the right to swap in 2016 but that pick was traded in the Bargs trade. You can't take away everyone's favorite whining point about the Bargs trade like that. The Knicks also got players back for Melo. Berger wrote a great article on the trade this past weekend. Pretty much said you can't choose a winner yet.

Oh, I think both teams were losers here.
Unless some miracle happens and we don't do the swap, the Knicks will have ended up giving up 2 1st round picks for Melo. (And they also were going to get one, lower, first round pick back, although now that's gone.)

A swap is a change in draft position in the same round. This years pick was traded. Two first rounders were not given up in the trade. The right to swap places was given. The swap pick is the first rounder traded for bargs.

Right; the change of position occurs because both teams are trading picks.

Its the right to swap. If the Knicks finish better than the Nuggets they keep their pick. It doesn't go anywhere. A pick didn't change hands.

I dont care about the swap its still a 1st round pick and Bargs wasnt worth it. Tim Hardaway Jr was a late first round pick in a weak draft and i bet 99% of people would take Hardaway over Bargs

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Pick 20 this year or in next years draft?

Either way we still have our 2015 lottery pick, can't trade it hallelujah

Combine that with whatever picks you get for Tyson and you are talking about a Ainte style Boston rebuild. Now we just need to find KG & Allen and draft a Pierce and Rondo

We should be able to get more than that for Melo. We gave up 2 1st rounders, a lottery picked player with high potential, and other good role players for him. I want Noah, not Boozer, if we're giving them Melo. But I might settle for some combination of Augistine, Dunleavy, and/or more picks instead. They're not in the driver's seat. How else are they going to get from where they are now to a top team in the east? What's their plan B? I can't see any glaring alternative for them.

The Knicks didn't give up 2 first rounders. They gave up this years first rounder. They gave the right to swap in 2016 but that pick was traded in the Bargs trade. You can't take away everyone's favorite whining point about the Bargs trade like that. The Knicks also got players back for Melo. Berger wrote a great article on the trade this past weekend. Pretty much said you can't choose a winner yet.

Oh, I think both teams were losers here.
Unless some miracle happens and we don't do the swap, the Knicks will have ended up giving up 2 1st round picks for Melo. (And they also were going to get one, lower, first round pick back, although now that's gone.)

A swap is a change in draft position in the same round. This years pick was traded. Two first rounders were not given up in the trade. The right to swap places was given. The swap pick is the first rounder traded for bargs.

Right; the change of position occurs because both teams are trading picks.

Its the right to swap. If the Knicks finish better than the Nuggets they keep their pick. It doesn't go anywhere. A pick didn't change hands.

I dont care about the swap its still a 1st round pick and Bargs wasnt worth it. Tim Hardaway Jr was a late first round pick in a weak draft and i bet 99% of people would take Hardaway over Bargs

I think Grunwald was thinking he needed talent to help his team win now and he also wanted cap space in 2015. Knicks often value cap space more than picks. Also, coming off a 54 win season with Anthony in his prime it makes sense to try and build that team and make it better immediately rather than waiting until he is 3 years older and bringing in a late first round rookie that most likely doesn't help the team for several years.

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Pick 20 this year or in next years draft?

Either way we still have our 2015 lottery pick, can't trade it hallelujah

Combine that with whatever picks you get for Tyson and you are talking about a Ainte style Boston rebuild. Now we just need to find KG & Allen and draft a Pierce and Rondo

We should be able to get more than that for Melo. We gave up 2 1st rounders, a lottery picked player with high potential, and other good role players for him. I want Noah, not Boozer, if we're giving them Melo. But I might settle for some combination of Augistine, Dunleavy, and/or more picks instead. They're not in the driver's seat. How else are they going to get from where they are now to a top team in the east? What's their plan B? I can't see any glaring alternative for them.

The Knicks didn't give up 2 first rounders. They gave up this years first rounder. They gave the right to swap in 2016 but that pick was traded in the Bargs trade. You can't take away everyone's favorite whining point about the Bargs trade like that. The Knicks also got players back for Melo. Berger wrote a great article on the trade this past weekend. Pretty much said you can't choose a winner yet.

Oh, I think both teams were losers here.
Unless some miracle happens and we don't do the swap, the Knicks will have ended up giving up 2 1st round picks for Melo. (And they also were going to get one, lower, first round pick back, although now that's gone.)

A swap is a change in draft position in the same round. This years pick was traded. Two first rounders were not given up in the trade. The right to swap places was given. The swap pick is the first rounder traded for bargs.

Right; the change of position occurs because both teams are trading picks.

Its the right to swap. If the Knicks finish better than the Nuggets they keep their pick. It doesn't go anywhere. A pick didn't change hands.

I dont care about the swap its still a 1st round pick and Bargs wasnt worth it. Tim Hardaway Jr was a late first round pick in a weak draft and i bet 99% of people would take Hardaway over Bargs

I think Grunwald was thinking he needed talent to help his team win now and he also wanted cap space in 2015. Knicks often value cap space more than picks. Also, coming off a 54 win season with Anthony in his prime it makes sense to try and build that team and make it better immediately rather than waiting until he is 3 years older and bringing in a late first round rookie that most likely doesn't help the team for several years.

Well to be fair nobody around the league wanted Bargs and nobody was offering 3 picks for him. The good news is that he is gone after next year, nothing against bargs he is probably a good guy he just has been a disappoint emnt most of his career.

I used to think butler was a valuable young player, but after hearing that he's shooting 27% from the 3pt line my opinion has completely changed. That's an abysmal percentage, especially for someone that is supposed to generate much of his offense off 3's. If he was traded here it would just be shump all over again. When he's the best player you're receiving in a trade for Melo you have to hang up the phone. Good defender or not you shoot 27% from 3 with few other offensive skills you have little value.

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Pick 20 this year or in next years draft?

Either way we still have our 2015 lottery pick, can't trade it hallelujah

Combine that with whatever picks you get for Tyson and you are talking about a Ainte style Boston rebuild. Now we just need to find KG & Allen and draft a Pierce and Rondo

We should be able to get more than that for Melo. We gave up 2 1st rounders, a lottery picked player with high potential, and other good role players for him. I want Noah, not Boozer, if we're giving them Melo. But I might settle for some combination of Augistine, Dunleavy, and/or more picks instead. They're not in the driver's seat. How else are they going to get from where they are now to a top team in the east? What's their plan B? I can't see any glaring alternative for them.

The Knicks didn't give up 2 first rounders. They gave up this years first rounder. They gave the right to swap in 2016 but that pick was traded in the Bargs trade. You can't take away everyone's favorite whining point about the Bargs trade like that. The Knicks also got players back for Melo. Berger wrote a great article on the trade this past weekend. Pretty much said you can't choose a winner yet.

Oh, I think both teams were losers here.
Unless some miracle happens and we don't do the swap, the Knicks will have ended up giving up 2 1st round picks for Melo. (And they also were going to get one, lower, first round pick back, although now that's gone.)

A swap is a change in draft position in the same round. This years pick was traded. Two first rounders were not given up in the trade. The right to swap places was given. The swap pick is the first rounder traded for bargs.

Right; the change of position occurs because both teams are trading picks.

Its the right to swap. If the Knicks finish better than the Nuggets they keep their pick. It doesn't go anywhere. A pick didn't change hands.

When was the last time we had a better record than Denver?!

A long time ago

Wow! I just took a glance at the standings but I think it was 2002-03! I didn't realize it was that bad when I typed the message earlier.

Denver won more than 54 games last year?

fishmike wrote:Denver won more than 54 games last year?

Yes, they did, also having the best home record of any team, and had a poor start of the season
Despite his teams success, lacking an "All Star", and the personal coaching awards/success, they fired George Karl because they felt he was not developing McGee and utlizing him correctly, also as Coach of the Year
Feeling it was a move to do for their futures success

So he has one year left on his contract but payed him anyway but fired him cause
Management felt they needed to change things up,
Especially with player development