Knicks · O.T Michael Sams : Im a college graduate, African American and Im A GAY FOOTBALL PLAYER (page 2)

There are people who don't accept minorities as equals, but there are laws to make sure there rights are protected. LGTB is only now getting such protection. That don't mean people like it.

Can't take Sam's and make it impossible for him to succeed because he is gay. IM sure there have been players denied the chance if their team did not support them. He is basically let the world know he expects to be drafted by a team that would support him. Why draft a kid to destroy him?

If a GM thinks his team won't, or the owner don't want any part of it perhaps thats better. His status will drop, but that happens all the time.

If shows he can play at that level but cut because he is gay, its now the same as if he was cut because he was black, or hispanic, or Asian!

Moonangie wrote:He said what his agenda is: He's getting out in front of the "issue" to avoid the repercussions when it inevitably comes out anyway. He didn't really have a choice since he was already out at his school.

NFL players need to man-up and stop being dumb fucks. They are supposed to be role models. They don't like gay players, go work in a car wash somewhere.

Sams would be welcome on the Giants if he's got game. We love us some ass kicking DEs.

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:I agree with playa, why is it when some comes out the damn closet it's national attention, who the fck cares that he's gay, if your good, play hard and live a solid respectable life what else really matters. Who you fck is your own business coiming out seems like he has other motives.

Why, because you don't want to be in a locker room full of straight guys that tell gay jokes. I don't support being gay but I certainly respect each's own..do you, why drag half of a nation into this drama

no you dont. Not even close

what are you talking about fish, i have friends that are gay, i don't have a problem with them. When i talk about supporting them, I'm talking about going to rallies, demonstrations, voting for same sex marriage (i dont suport that) whatever, but as a humanitarian, I respect eveybody. Like BOB MARLEY SAID "every man has a right to his own destiny"

fishmike wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Ahhhhh, sexual preference. Parades. Coming Out.
If you wanted to be accepted as normal, why does it have to be turned into a freak show every time? How's it working out for Jason Collins?

It's been almost 20 years since Time Magazine had Ellen Degeneris coming out and it's still a national media day event?

Spare me the comparisons to race, because they don't work.
Suppose he came out and said he's an animist or a Scientologist? What difference does that make to a football player?

Play for attention. Anyone talking about Michael Sams before this?

Is it Michael Sams turning this into a "freakshow" or the media? It seems like you're accusing the former for it and not the latter, given the tone of your post.

And sexual orientation absolutely is equitable to race. It is, after all, an element of the human character. And like any element of the human character, people can choose to hate and disparage it because of arbitrary reasons. As I've already pointed out, people can still be fired today for being gay....just like how minorities were barred from jobs before the 60s. It's just not frequently discussed in those terms because (1) minorities can be extremely homophobic, which forces many not to embrace this embattled community and (2) the LGTB community is projected to be smaller than most racial minorities, which makes it easier to beat up on them. The fact is that they are the same.

kinda like the old white guy who says he's not racist. Minorities can do whatever they want. So long as its in their own neighborhood, and not with white women. But yea... that guy's not racist. He's just saying "to each his own."

Freakshow? If anything he spared everyone that. He could have just done well at the combine, played well, earned a spot then when he has his first big game on a Monday night and they interview him at the post game dropped it then. Instead he probably wanted to avoid the freakshow, let everyone know ahead of time and go be who he is. A gay dude who plays football.

Yeah, I'm a Black, heterosexual male and don't necessarily have a dog in the fight. Still, right is right. It just amazes me that we keep fighting the same fights over and over again with different groups as the target and no one seems to get the inherent trend in them all. It especially disappoints me when the very same people who have been the targets of this hatred, jump in to do the same thing to others (my father and step-father among them).

jrodmc wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Ahhhhh, sexual preference. Parades. Coming Out.
If you wanted to be accepted as normal, why does it have to be turned into a freak show every time? How's it working out for Jason Collins?

It's been almost 20 years since Time Magazine had Ellen Degeneris coming out and it's still a national media day event?

Spare me the comparisons to race, because they don't work.
Suppose he came out and said he's an animist or a Scientologist? What difference does that make to a football player?

Play for attention. Anyone talking about Michael Sams before this?

Is it Michael Sams turning this into a "freakshow" or the media? It seems like you're accusing the former for it and not the latter, given the tone of your post.

And sexual orientation absolutely is equitable to race. It is, after all, an element of the human character. And like any element of the human character, people can choose to hate and disparage it because of arbitrary reasons. As I've already pointed out, people can still be fired today for being gay....just like how minorities were barred from jobs before the 60s. It's just not frequently discussed in those terms because (1) minorities can be extremely homophobic, which forces many not to embrace this embattled community and (2) the LGTB community is projected to be smaller than most racial minorities, which makes it easier to beat up on them. The fact is that they are the same.

And what facts do you use to support the "fact" that a preference is the same as a racial minority? Because other people's reactions justify the comparison? Seriously, that's what you bring to the table?

Leave hate and disparagement aside, and just address the question. Human character is the same as race? Element of human character? What are you talking about? You make statements and then talk in a circle. Gays are like race because bad people do bad things to them, and people who actually are a particular race don't react well on the whole to them. So in your world, that makes sexual preference the same as race.

Elephants and tables both have 4 legs. Sometimes people sit on both of them. Are they the same?

Black dude gets fired because white boss doesnt like him talking to the white girls in the office. Gay dude gets fired because boss doesnt like gays. Are they they same? Equal? Is one more wrong than the other?

Black family buys house in nice hood. Gets cross burned on lawn and rocks thrown through windows. Gay couple buys house in nice hood. Gets cross burned on lawn and rocks thrown through windows. Are they they same? Equal? Is one more wrong than the other?

Are those elephants or tables? Im not sure... Need more examples?

fishmike wrote:

Moonangie wrote:He said what his agenda is: He's getting out in front of the "issue" to avoid the repercussions when it inevitably comes out anyway. He didn't really have a choice since he was already out at his school.

NFL players need to man-up and stop being dumb fucks. They are supposed to be role models. They don't like gay players, go work in a car wash somewhere.

Sams would be welcome on the Giants if he's got game. We love us some ass kicking DEs.

Exactly.

Yup. Our community has somewhat accepted all sexual orientations but a lot of southern and mid-western states are still not accepting of an alternate lifestyle. I applaud him for doing this now even though there is a risk of losing money due to his sliding in the draft. Before the announcement he was projected to go as high as the 3rd round. Now, he has slid to 5th or 6th round.

Imagine if he was drafted by a southern team and it comes out that he was gay during training camp or during the season. How do you think the fan base would react?

Former football player came out after he had retired too.

Jason Collins came out when he wasn't on a NBA roster so he like the others didn't really lose any money, they just let it be known they played pro sports and was gay.

Now we have a young man who haven't made a red cent yet, why would he risk the higher salary by potential being drafted lower because of him coming out......unless he has something or someone to back him up legally as a community.

Everybody wasn't born yesterday, the NFL is being challenged with this in your face approach now that the WHOLE WORLD IS WATCHING. WHAT A STRATEGY !

Sam's could become a symbol for the country’s gay rights movement or a flashpoint in a football culture war or both.

playa2 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Ahhhhh, sexual preference. Parades. Coming Out.
If you wanted to be accepted as normal, why does it have to be turned into a freak show every time? How's it working out for Jason Collins?

It's been almost 20 years since Time Magazine had Ellen Degeneris coming out and it's still a national media day event?

Spare me the comparisons to race, because they don't work.
Suppose he came out and said he's an animist or a Scientologist? What difference does that make to a football player?

Play for attention. Anyone talking about Michael Sams before this?

Many will read what you just said and close their eyes, people are pushing their agenda in small increments so most won't even notice the big picture. Nobody has been denied to play pro sports by just keeping it to themselves.

So if we just do the math,you will see they are demanding something from heterosexual community to APPROVE of and not just tolerate and get along with.

Mike Sams and those he's speaking for are using the media for their agenda, not that big of a secret if you are in touch with how people use the media for their own personal agenda.

No, not approve, just not discriminated.

The NFL Union like any other union has to abide by the laws that protect the citizens of this country.

The rest of it is just noise.

THings change. I have a friend who was pretty much homophobic, as was his father, and his father, etc.....then his son came out. We sat and talked and pretty much he said he loved his son and would have to learn. I asked him if his grandfather would have turned his back on him if he had come out. He said his mother would have made sure "dad" would not have.

This is whats happening now. Be careful with comments because many families have member who are coming out and being accepted and loved regardless. People don't have have to keep up the false front anymore and hide in shame of who they are. Players have gay brothers and sisters, parents, cousins, and they themselves will have gay children.

At some point homophobic statements will become offensive becasue they are calling out someones child and that just don't fly.

NYKBocker wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Moonangie wrote:He said what his agenda is: He's getting out in front of the "issue" to avoid the repercussions when it inevitably comes out anyway. He didn't really have a choice since he was already out at his school.

NFL players need to man-up and stop being dumb fucks. They are supposed to be role models. They don't like gay players, go work in a car wash somewhere.

Sams would be welcome on the Giants if he's got game. We love us some ass kicking DEs.

Exactly.

Yup. Our community has somewhat accepted all sexual orientations but a lot of southern and mid-western states are still not accepting of an alternate lifestyle. I applaud him for doing this now even though there is a risk of losing money due to his sliding in the draft. Before the announcement he was projected to go as high as the 3rd round. Now, he has slid to 5th or 6th round.

Imagine if he was drafted by a southern team and it comes out that he was gay during training camp or during the season. How do you think the fan base would react?

He could have done a 1000 more dramatic things if he wanted to push a big agenda. Sounds like his agenda is football.

playa2 wrote:The basketball player came out after he retired John Amaechi he went on the circuit.

Former football player came out after he had retired too.

Jason Collins came out when he wasn't on a NBA roster so he like the others didn't really lose any money, they just let it be known they played pro sports and was gay.

Now we have a young man who haven't made a red cent yet, why would he risk the higher salary by potential being drafted lower because of him coming out......unless he has something or someone to back him up legally as a community.

Everybody wasn't born yesterday, the NFL is being challenged with this in your face approach now that the WHOLE WORLD IS WATCHING. WHAT A STRATEGY !

Why? Maybe he has character and the laws now can allow him to not be discriminated.

and yeah, he has the backing of the federal government now.

Nalod wrote:

playa2 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Ahhhhh, sexual preference. Parades. Coming Out.
If you wanted to be accepted as normal, why does it have to be turned into a freak show every time? How's it working out for Jason Collins?

It's been almost 20 years since Time Magazine had Ellen Degeneris coming out and it's still a national media day event?

Spare me the comparisons to race, because they don't work.
Suppose he came out and said he's an animist or a Scientologist? What difference does that make to a football player?

Play for attention. Anyone talking about Michael Sams before this?

Many will read what you just said and close their eyes, people are pushing their agenda in small increments so most won't even notice the big picture. Nobody has been denied to play pro sports by just keeping it to themselves.

So if we just do the math,you will see they are demanding something from heterosexual community to APPROVE of and not just tolerate and get along with.

Mike Sams and those he's speaking for are using the media for their agenda, not that big of a secret if you are in touch with how people use the media for their own personal agenda.

No, not approve, just not discriminated.

The NFL Union like any other union has to abide by the laws that protect the citizens of this country.

The rest of it is just noise.

THings change. I have a friend who was pretty much homophobic, as was his father, and his father, etc.....then his son came out. We sat and talked and pretty much he said he loved his son and would have to learn. I asked him if his grandfather would have turned his back on him if he had come out. He said his mother would have made sure "dad" would not have.

This is whats happening now. Be careful with comments because many families have member who are coming out and being accepted and loved regardless. People don't have have to keep up the false front anymore and hide in shame of who they are. Players have gay brothers and sisters, parents, cousins, and they themselves will have gay children.

At some point homophobic statements will become offensive becasue they are calling out someones child and that just don't fly.

PLAYERS WERE GAY AND PLAYING IN THE LEAGUE ALREADY, WHY THE BIG ANNOUNCEMENT TO EVERYBODY OUTSIDE OF NFL SCOUTS AND HIS COLLEGE TEAMMATES ?

They want people to approve not just accept it, because teams already in the past had gay players.

Wake up people !

jrodmc wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Ahhhhh, sexual preference. Parades. Coming Out.
If you wanted to be accepted as normal, why does it have to be turned into a freak show every time? How's it working out for Jason Collins?

It's been almost 20 years since Time Magazine had Ellen Degeneris coming out and it's still a national media day event?

Spare me the comparisons to race, because they don't work.
Suppose he came out and said he's an animist or a Scientologist? What difference does that make to a football player?

Play for attention. Anyone talking about Michael Sams before this?

Is it Michael Sams turning this into a "freakshow" or the media? It seems like you're accusing the former for it and not the latter, given the tone of your post.

And sexual orientation absolutely is equitable to race. It is, after all, an element of the human character. And like any element of the human character, people can choose to hate and disparage it because of arbitrary reasons. As I've already pointed out, people can still be fired today for being gay....just like how minorities were barred from jobs before the 60s. It's just not frequently discussed in those terms because (1) minorities can be extremely homophobic, which forces many not to embrace this embattled community and (2) the LGTB community is projected to be smaller than most racial minorities, which makes it easier to beat up on them. The fact is that they are the same.

And what facts do you use to support the "fact" that a preference is the same as a racial minority? Because other people's reactions justify the comparison? Seriously, that's what you bring to the table?

Leave hate and disparagement aside, and just address the question. Human character is the same as race? Element of human character? What are you talking about? You make statements and then talk in a circle. Gays are like race because bad people do bad things to them, and people who actually are a particular race don't react well on the whole to them. So in your world, that makes sexual preference the same as race.

Elephants and tables both have 4 legs. Sometimes people sit on both of them. Are they the same?

The fact that I spontaneously wanted to fuck girls when I was 9 years old and did not need anyone to tell me to do so (shout out to Kimberly of the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers; Kelly, Lisa and Tiffany from Saved by the Bell; and Michelle Rodriguez from my 5th grade SIGMA class).

The fact of the matter is that our sexual orientation, isn't a preference and is clearly innate. This is according to the APA and all other institutions that concern itself with facts about the human psyche and not their own personal bias'. Just as your sexual orientation is innate, your racial background is as well. No matter how much you try, you can never change either of these two identities, hence my classification of them as "elements of the human character".

fishmike wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Ahhhhh, sexual preference. Parades. Coming Out.
If you wanted to be accepted as normal, why does it have to be turned into a freak show every time? How's it working out for Jason Collins?

It's been almost 20 years since Time Magazine had Ellen Degeneris coming out and it's still a national media day event?

Spare me the comparisons to race, because they don't work.
Suppose he came out and said he's an animist or a Scientologist? What difference does that make to a football player?

Play for attention. Anyone talking about Michael Sams before this?

Is it Michael Sams turning this into a "freakshow" or the media? It seems like you're accusing the former for it and not the latter, given the tone of your post.

And sexual orientation absolutely is equitable to race. It is, after all, an element of the human character. And like any element of the human character, people can choose to hate and disparage it because of arbitrary reasons. As I've already pointed out, people can still be fired today for being gay....just like how minorities were barred from jobs before the 60s. It's just not frequently discussed in those terms because (1) minorities can be extremely homophobic, which forces many not to embrace this embattled community and (2) the LGTB community is projected to be smaller than most racial minorities, which makes it easier to beat up on them. The fact is that they are the same.

And what facts do you use to support the "fact" that a preference is the same as a racial minority? Because other people's reactions justify the comparison? Seriously, that's what you bring to the table?

Leave hate and disparagement aside, and just address the question. Human character is the same as race? Element of human character? What are you talking about? You make statements and then talk in a circle. Gays are like race because bad people do bad things to them, and people who actually are a particular race don't react well on the whole to them. So in your world, that makes sexual preference the same as race.

Elephants and tables both have 4 legs. Sometimes people sit on both of them. Are they the same?

white dudes lynch a black dude because they hate n!ggers. Black dudes kill a gay cause they hate f@gs. Are they they same? Equal? Is one more wrong than the other?

Black dude gets fired because white boss doesnt like him talking to the white girls in the office. Gay dude gets fired because boss doesnt like gays. Are they they same? Equal? Is one more wrong than the other?

Black family buys house in nice hood. Gets cross burned on lawn and rocks thrown through windows. Gay couple buys house in nice hood. Gets cross burned on lawn and rocks thrown through windows. Are they they same? Equal? Is one more wrong than the other?

Are those elephants or tables? Im not sure... Need more examples?

Congrats fish, you just repeated Nard's non-argument without explaining anything.

Bonn1997 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:I agree with playa, why is it when some comes out the damn closet it's national attention, who the fck cares that he's gay, if your good, play hard and live a solid respectable life what else really matters. Who you fck is your own business coiming out seems like he has other motives.

Why, because you don't want to be in a locker room full of straight guys that tell gay jokes. I don't support being gay but I certainly respect each's own..do you, why drag half of a nation into this drama

If you're in the minority that doesn't care about these stories, so be it. Why are you so upset about that?

Im not upset at all, I just dont understand why it has to become national attn when some one comes out, whats the big deal.

Why are you telling the world you sleep with men, to be some kind of hero, so they can do a movie about you, ohhh im the first openly gay football player...thats what i mean my other motives.

fishmike wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Ahhhhh, sexual preference. Parades. Coming Out.
If you wanted to be accepted as normal, why does it have to be turned into a freak show every time? How's it working out for Jason Collins?

It's been almost 20 years since Time Magazine had Ellen Degeneris coming out and it's still a national media day event?

Spare me the comparisons to race, because they don't work.
Suppose he came out and said he's an animist or a Scientologist? What difference does that make to a football player?

Play for attention. Anyone talking about Michael Sams before this?

Is it Michael Sams turning this into a "freakshow" or the media? It seems like you're accusing the former for it and not the latter, given the tone of your post.

And sexual orientation absolutely is equitable to race. It is, after all, an element of the human character. And like any element of the human character, people can choose to hate and disparage it because of arbitrary reasons. As I've already pointed out, people can still be fired today for being gay....just like how minorities were barred from jobs before the 60s. It's just not frequently discussed in those terms because (1) minorities can be extremely homophobic, which forces many not to embrace this embattled community and (2) the LGTB community is projected to be smaller than most racial minorities, which makes it easier to beat up on them. The fact is that they are the same.

kinda like the old white guy who says he's not racist. Minorities can do whatever they want. So long as its in their own neighborhood, and not with white women. But yea... that guy's not racist. He's just saying "to each his own."

Freakshow? If anything he spared everyone that. He could have just done well at the combine, played well, earned a spot then when he has his first big game on a Monday night and they interview him at the post game dropped it then. Instead he probably wanted to avoid the freakshow, let everyone know ahead of time and go be who he is. A gay dude who plays football.

So my question again is why drop it at all? Can you tell me you or anyone else would really care or need to know what he does with his weenie?
Do we need hetero ID cards?

Why the jump from preference to race? Because someone told you so?

The effect's of stupidity don't equate the cases. Stop for a second and just think it through.
Do you get to prefer your race?

playa2 wrote:The basketball player came out after he retired John Amaechi he went on the circuit.

Former football player came out after he had retired too.

Jason Collins came out when he wasn't on a NBA roster so he like the others didn't really lose any money, they just let it be known they played pro sports and was gay.

Now we have a young man who haven't made a red cent yet, why would he risk the higher salary by potential being drafted lower because of him coming out......unless he has something or someone to back him up legally as a community.

Everybody wasn't born yesterday, the NFL is being challenged with this in your face approach now that the WHOLE WORLD IS WATCHING. WHAT A STRATEGY !

Are you commending those guys for trying to hide who they are until they were out of the spotlight? What are you saying?

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Ahhhhh, sexual preference. Parades. Coming Out.
If you wanted to be accepted as normal, why does it have to be turned into a freak show every time? How's it working out for Jason Collins?

It's been almost 20 years since Time Magazine had Ellen Degeneris coming out and it's still a national media day event?

Spare me the comparisons to race, because they don't work.
Suppose he came out and said he's an animist or a Scientologist? What difference does that make to a football player?

Play for attention. Anyone talking about Michael Sams before this?

Is it Michael Sams turning this into a "freakshow" or the media? It seems like you're accusing the former for it and not the latter, given the tone of your post.

And sexual orientation absolutely is equitable to race. It is, after all, an element of the human character. And like any element of the human character, people can choose to hate and disparage it because of arbitrary reasons. As I've already pointed out, people can still be fired today for being gay....just like how minorities were barred from jobs before the 60s. It's just not frequently discussed in those terms because (1) minorities can be extremely homophobic, which forces many not to embrace this embattled community and (2) the LGTB community is projected to be smaller than most racial minorities, which makes it easier to beat up on them. The fact is that they are the same.

And what facts do you use to support the "fact" that a preference is the same as a racial minority? Because other people's reactions justify the comparison? Seriously, that's what you bring to the table?

Leave hate and disparagement aside, and just address the question. Human character is the same as race? Element of human character? What are you talking about? You make statements and then talk in a circle. Gays are like race because bad people do bad things to them, and people who actually are a particular race don't react well on the whole to them. So in your world, that makes sexual preference the same as race.

Elephants and tables both have 4 legs. Sometimes people sit on both of them. Are they the same?

white dudes lynch a black dude because they hate n!ggers. Black dudes kill a gay cause they hate f@gs. Are they they same? Equal? Is one more wrong than the other?

Black dude gets fired because white boss doesnt like him talking to the white girls in the office. Gay dude gets fired because boss doesnt like gays. Are they they same? Equal? Is one more wrong than the other?

Black family buys house in nice hood. Gets cross burned on lawn and rocks thrown through windows. Gay couple buys house in nice hood. Gets cross burned on lawn and rocks thrown through windows. Are they they same? Equal? Is one more wrong than the other?

Are those elephants or tables? Im not sure... Need more examples?

Congrats fish, you just repeated Nard's non-argument without explaining anything.

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Ahhhhh, sexual preference. Parades. Coming Out.
If you wanted to be accepted as normal, why does it have to be turned into a freak show every time? How's it working out for Jason Collins?

It's been almost 20 years since Time Magazine had Ellen Degeneris coming out and it's still a national media day event?

Spare me the comparisons to race, because they don't work.
Suppose he came out and said he's an animist or a Scientologist? What difference does that make to a football player?

Play for attention. Anyone talking about Michael Sams before this?

Is it Michael Sams turning this into a "freakshow" or the media? It seems like you're accusing the former for it and not the latter, given the tone of your post.

And sexual orientation absolutely is equitable to race. It is, after all, an element of the human character. And like any element of the human character, people can choose to hate and disparage it because of arbitrary reasons. As I've already pointed out, people can still be fired today for being gay....just like how minorities were barred from jobs before the 60s. It's just not frequently discussed in those terms because (1) minorities can be extremely homophobic, which forces many not to embrace this embattled community and (2) the LGTB community is projected to be smaller than most racial minorities, which makes it easier to beat up on them. The fact is that they are the same.

kinda like the old white guy who says he's not racist. Minorities can do whatever they want. So long as its in their own neighborhood, and not with white women. But yea... that guy's not racist. He's just saying "to each his own."

Freakshow? If anything he spared everyone that. He could have just done well at the combine, played well, earned a spot then when he has his first big game on a Monday night and they interview him at the post game dropped it then. Instead he probably wanted to avoid the freakshow, let everyone know ahead of time and go be who he is. A gay dude who plays football.

So my question again is why drop it at all? Can you tell me you or anyone else would really care or need to know what he does with his weenie?
Do we need hetero ID cards?

Why the jump from preference to race? Because someone told you so?

The effect's of stupidity don't equate the cases. Stop for a second and just think it through.
Do you get to prefer your race?

knicks1248 wrote:Im not upset at all, I just dont understand why it has to become national attn when some one comes out, whats the big deal.

It's national news because enough people in the world are interested in the subject. News organizations are not in the business of publishing things that no one cares about.

jrodmc wrote:So my question again is why drop it at all?

Did you take the time to read the story? Listen to the interview?

I didn't realize how many people actually knew, and I was afraid that someone would tell or leak something out about me,” he told ESPN. “I want to own my truth. … No one else should tell my story but me.”

Think about the big the media storm would be if mid season someone started talking about it.