Knicks · The New York Knicks are again interested in Kyle Lowry. Who should we give up and shouldn't give up to get him? (page 2)
yellowboy90 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:That said, Lowry isn't a player I'd give a gigantic contract to. I think a Lowry for Lin + 3 mil deal would make sense for both teams.Lowry for 18 million are you serious? J/k. I actually think he is looking for 11 mill a year or the going rate the other pgs got like Lawson and holiday. Ideally I think a 3 to 4 year deal in the 8-11 range would be fine. As long as the year 15 number is with the 20% minimum decrease to save a little money for FA that year.
OK, not sure where you got the 18 figure from. We really don't know what he's looking for but I'd assume he wants a big raise.
BigRedDog wrote:It is crazy to give up anything significant to get this guy unless we can sign him to a long term contract right away. If you trade for him giving up a #1 + a player then when the season is over we would be at his mercy and have to over pay to keep him. Really doesn't make any sense at all.
+1. It's time for the NYK to slow shyte down and make smart decsions that protect our future. We aren't winning now, so we need to plan.
TheGame wrote:The only deal that makes sense to me is Felton/Shumpert for Lowry and our first round pick back or at worst a second round pick. That deal will allow THJ to play more, who looks like he has more potential as a starting caliber shooting guard than Shumpert (who is still trying to figure out what he does well on offense). Lowry will add better defense, more scoring, and more consistency to the PG position and he might be just the boost we need to make this team go. For Toronto, they get a cheap substitute at the PG position, and a good young SG/SF with potential.
You think they want Felton and Shumpert so badly that they'll give us a 1st round pick?!
He's an easy top 10 PG right now and a true floor general. He takes the ball out of Melo's hands and puts it in the hands of a guy who can run an offense. This guy would make us much better and instantly. Folks really dont realize how the bad guard play has ruined this team.
You add Lowry and your close to being back to where you were last year
Bonn1997 wrote:playa2 wrote:Papabear wrote:Papabear SaysHe for 2 months is playing his heart out for a new contract. Is he that good? I wouldn't give up THJ
The New York Knicks are again interested in Kyle Lowry.
The Knicks were close to a trade for Lowry in December, but backed out of talks prior to a surge by Lowry and the Toronto Raptors. The Knicks and Raptors were discussing a trade involving Raymond Felton, Metta World Peace and a first round pick.
Lowry has been one of the NBA's best point guards over the past two months.
Lowry will be a free agent this offseason and the Raptors are unlikely to re-sign him.
Real GM
I tried to tell DJ but he's hard headed.
Toronto aren't trying to change the culture, there ONLY interest is to use up hot players & make the most money for as less (paying out) as possible. Toronto has no history of wanting to continue to win long term.
You act like you've been proven right already just because an internet poster says the Raptors are unlikely to re-sign him.
The Raptors have paid plenty of players and even right now have one of the top payrolls in the league. I just don't see where you're getting your ideas from.
RESIGNING GUYS WHO CAME FROM ANOTHER TEAM IN A TRADE, tell me who stayed there(in Toronto) who was any good.
Most of the players today have made BASKETBALL A business and their 1st priority, winning comes 2nd if at all.
If owners don't want to get things together and try tocompete to win it all , players begin to go with the same mindset and just make all the money they can. see (MELO)
Bonn1997 wrote:TheGame wrote:The only deal that makes sense to me is Felton/Shumpert for Lowry and our first round pick back or at worst a second round pick. That deal will allow THJ to play more, who looks like he has more potential as a starting caliber shooting guard than Shumpert (who is still trying to figure out what he does well on offense). Lowry will add better defense, more scoring, and more consistency to the PG position and he might be just the boost we need to make this team go. For Toronto, they get a cheap substitute at the PG position, and a good young SG/SF with potential.
You think they want Felton and Shumpert so badly that they'll give us a 1st round pick?!
No, but that is what I would start with as an offer. Shumpert still has value, and for better or worse, Felton is a starting PG in the NBA and would be better than anyone Toronto could likely find to replace Lowry. In the end, it would probably be a deal of Felton and Shumpert for Lowry, but for once, I would love for the Knicks to be on the receiving end of getting a pick (even if it is a second rounder). Toronto does not seem intent on resigning Lowry and any team trading for him is not going to be guaranteed to be able to resign him, so Toronto does not have all the leverage here.
TheGame wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:TheGame wrote:The only deal that makes sense to me is Felton/Shumpert for Lowry and our first round pick back or at worst a second round pick. That deal will allow THJ to play more, who looks like he has more potential as a starting caliber shooting guard than Shumpert (who is still trying to figure out what he does well on offense). Lowry will add better defense, more scoring, and more consistency to the PG position and he might be just the boost we need to make this team go. For Toronto, they get a cheap substitute at the PG position, and a good young SG/SF with potential.
You think they want Felton and Shumpert so badly that they'll give us a 1st round pick?!No, but that is what I would start with as an offer. Shumpert still has value, and for better or worse, Felton is a starting PG in the NBA and would be better than anyone Toronto could likely find to replace Lowry. In the end, it would probably be a deal of Felton and Shumpert for Lowry, but for once, I would love for the Knicks to be on the receiving end of getting a pick (even if it is a second rounder). Toronto does not seem intent on resigning Lowry and any team trading for him is not going to be guaranteed to be able to resign him, so Toronto does not have all the leverage here.
You start with that and every GM in the league will laugh at you. Shumpert's value is probably around a 45th pick and Felton has negative value with the $10 mil he's owed. I'm sure they'd say no, but it would be less laughable if we didn't ask for a pick.
TheGame wrote:The only deal that makes sense to me is Felton/Shumpert for Lowry and our first round pick back or at worst a second round pick. That deal will allow THJ to play more, who looks like he has more potential as a starting caliber shooting guard than Shumpert (who is still trying to figure out what he does well on offense). Lowry will add better defense, more scoring, and more consistency to the PG position and he might be just the boost we need to make this team go. For Toronto, they get a cheap substitute at the PG position, and a good young SG/SF with potential.
Felton is a CBA player at this point in his career. There was an article out recently that used metrics to prove that he may very well be the worst PG in the league. No way Toronto takes him on, at that pricetag, without getting real assets (and that isn't Shumpert).
"We've heard it from [Toronto] that he won't be moved," a rival front office executive told Yahoo Sports.From Wojo article.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/raptors-app...
CrushAlot wrote:"We've heard it from [Toronto] that he won't be moved," a rival front office executive told Yahoo Sports.From Wojo article.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/raptors-app...
I don't think we're going to do much this trade deadline- maybe move MWP and Beno in minor trades. Depressing thing is we're stuck with this team next season too. Still all the speculating is fun!
smackeddog wrote:I would love to see Tyson moved. I hate reading about his conversations with Mills and hearing his post game comments after another uninspiring effort where he looks like he doesn't care what happens. Also, moving shump is probably best for all parties. Maybe Shump comes out of his, 'I want to be a d leaguer' funk on another team.CrushAlot wrote:"We've heard it from [Toronto] that he won't be moved," a rival front office executive told Yahoo Sports.From Wojo article.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/raptors-app...I don't think we're going to do much this trade deadline- maybe move MWP and Beno in minor trades. Depressing thing is we're stuck with this team next season too. Still all the speculating is fun!
CrushAlot wrote:"We've heard it from [Toronto] that he won't be moved," a rival front office executive told Yahoo Sports.From Wojo article.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/raptors-app...
This kills me. I am a big Lowry guy. The fact we jacked up a trade in December pisses me off to no end. Watching this team isn't even fun anymore because they fuck everything up.
joec32033 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:"We've heard it from [Toronto] that he won't be moved," a rival front office executive told Yahoo Sports.From Wojo article.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/raptors-app...This kills me. I am a big Lowry guy. The fact we jacked up a trade in December pisses me off to no end. Watching this team isn't even fun anymore because they fuck everything up.
Another award winning Dolan intervention! He's been on fire this season:
Insists on Bargs trade
Fires the GM a day before the start of preseason simultaneously instantly undermining his coach
Lets it be known he wants to trade Shump due to betrayal, instantly crushing Shumps morale and psyche
Insisting on signing Chris Smith, hitting team morale
Insisting on JR starting despite his suspension and injury, undermining Woody and adding to the other players frustrations.
Intervenes to nix the Lowry trade, then changes his mind after Lowry's price has risen and the Knicks bargaining position has imploded.
Of course nothing quit tops the "refuse to match the offer for the PG you desperately need and were lucky to get, because you feel betrayed"
smackeddog wrote:joec32033 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:"We've heard it from [Toronto] that he won't be moved," a rival front office executive told Yahoo Sports.From Wojo article.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/raptors-app...This kills me. I am a big Lowry guy. The fact we jacked up a trade in December pisses me off to no end. Watching this team isn't even fun anymore because they fuck everything up.
Another award winning Dolan intervention! He's been on fire this season:
Insists on Bargs trade
Fires the GM a day before the start of preseason simultaneously instantly undermining his coach
Lets it be known he wants to trade Shump due to betrayal, instantly crushing Shumps morale and psyche
Insisting on signing Chris Smith, hitting team morale
Insisting on JR starting despite his suspension and injury, undermining Woody and adding to the other players frustrations.
Intervenes to nix the Lowry trade, then changes his mind after Lowry's price has risen and the Knicks bargaining position has imploded.Of course nothing quit tops the "refuse to match the offer for the PG you desperately need and were lucky to get, because you feel betrayed"
When you put it like that I....I....you just depressed me.
He has been known to get max return and always selling HIGH, especially to suckers like the Knick's
Basically a deal that HE CANNOT REFUSE
or
He actually is telling the truth, he is half way in the the season at 52 games out of 82 games, with 30 games left
Why not evaluate his team while he is currently 3rd in the entire East, 4 games ahead of the Nets, 8 games ahead of the Knicks, and would be his first playoff birth for his first tenure
Thinking in Toronto's point of view on building a team for their future, maybe Vasquez could be available, who was nearly averaging triple double numbers for much of the season in NO last year who would be a RFA this summer
I would be interested in buying Greviez Vasquez if the price is right but running him as a SG in a 2 PG system
Toronto has about 42m in guaranteed salaries, with many RFA's, TEAM options, and many expiring contract after next season, just in time for 2015 summer
Currently they have only 13.5m in guaranteed salaries, not including the team options of and Terrence Ross who are still on their rookie deals in 2015
Only players on the books would be
2 players on the books for 2015 season in Toronto
========================================================
DeMar DeRozan at 9.5m
Steve Novak at 3.5m
Team options that likely would be picked up or eligible to sign a extension
==================================================================================
Jonas Valanciunas $4,660,482
Terrence Ross $3,553,917
any players that possibly could be kept, including Lowry, Patrick Patterson, Greivis Vasquez, Tyler Hansbrough, the development of Dwight Buycks *think he is a RFA*, any signings/trades of contracts they may make, they have a decent amount of assets in draft picks that could, and with that cap room, they have the ability to sign multiple players with 2015 FA's either with ALL STAR's *not many would probably be interested in signing with Toronto unless they are able to sign a TOP tier STAR to attract other stars to come (maybe DeRozan, Valanciunas, Terrence Ross, and their draft picks could be their core, some of which has the legit potential to be STAR's*
I think Uri will NOT overpay for any talents, including Lowry, while maintaining his cap space for 2015
Lowry could sign a deal anywhere from 7.5m-12m per year (depending on amount of years, Toronto might even give them his best offer with that extra year guaranteed)
He is hitting his 30's in another year or 2-3 more seasons, so this is likely his LAST big contract, and with that extra year it might not be the best starting salary with Toronto but could be the best overall deal
Considering he would be in his early 30's at 32 with a max 5 year deal *or 31 at a 4 year deal* does he and his agent want to take a chance that his value could drop significantly as many players have huge drop offs after the age of 30 as their physical abilities decline
This is something Lowry, his agent, and Toronto would have to decide the risk/rewards off, leverage that Toronto could have over Lowry if he wishes to not take the risk of by signing a 4year deal vs a 5 year deal, maybe even a partial guarantee like 5m for his 5th year at 5m or so would be enough depending on what Toronto may offer between 8-12m
Picks incoming for Toronto include
=========================================
Toronto 2014 second round draft pick from Sacramento
Sacramento's 2014 2nd round pick to Toronto protected for selections 56-60 (if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then Sacramento's obligation to Toronto will be extinguished) [Sacramento-Toronto, 7/16/2012]; Toronto may convey this pick to Milwaukee (via Phoenix) (see Toronto Debits)
2014 second round draft pick from Oklahoma City
Oklahoma City's 2014 2nd round pick to Toronto (via New York) [New York-Oklahoma City, 2/21/2013 and then New York-Toronto, 7/10/2013]
2016 first round draft pick from New York
New York will convey the less favorable of its 2016 1st round pick and Denver's 2016 1st round pick to Toronto (via Denver's right to swap for New York) [Denver-Minnesota-New York, 2/22/2011 and then New York-Toronto, 7/10/2013]
2017 second round draft pick from New York
New York's 2017 2nd round pick to Toronto [New York-Toronto, 7/10/2013]
Picks outgoing from Toronto
==========================================
2014 second round draft pick to Milwaukee
Toronto will convey the less favorable of its 2014 2nd round pick protected for selections 31-36 and Sacramento's 2014 2nd round pick protected for selections 56-60 to Milwaukee (via Toronto to Phoenix); if only the Sacramento pick falls within its protected range, then Toronto will convey its pick to Milwaukee (via Toronto to Phoenix); if the Toronto pick falls within its protected range, then Milwaukee will instead receive the more favorable of Phoenix's 2015 2nd round pick and Toronto's 2015 2nd round pick and Toronto will receive the less favorable of these two picks (via Milwaukee's right to swap Phoenix for Toronto) [Sacramento-Toronto, 7/16/2012 and then Phoenix-Toronto, 2/21/2013 and then L.A. Clippers-Milwaukee-Phoenix, 7/10/2013]
2016 second round draft pick to Memphis
Toronto's 2016 2nd round
Overall picks NOT MENTIONED, are owned by Toronto, including their own draft picks especially their 1st rounders that could be used as assets in trades or further development
Lowry is balling his brains out to get paid by the higgest bidder, that's about it.
Toronto is gonna ride his wave until the end of the season, giving their fans something to dwell on for next yr's ticket sales just like they did with Carter and Bosh.