Knicks · Game Thread: Knicks @ Grizz...The Start of playoff push (page 10)

Bonn1997 wrote:It's your opinion that only the eyeball test from watching the game warrants posting.
No one else had cited Melo's TS% from the game, which is regarded as a very important stat. Just from looking at the box score, I didn't realize it was that low in the game.
I actually admire people who don't waste their time watching this team.

Well going 0-7 to start the game doesn't help and 1-4 at the strips in the 1st puts you in a TS hole. Does 1 quarter of bad shooting erase 3 qtrs of overall good play?

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:It's your opinion that only the eyeball test from watching the game warrants posting.
No one else had cited Melo's TS% from the game, which is regarded as a very important stat. Just from looking at the box score, I didn't realize it was that low in the game.
I actually admire people who don't waste their time watching this team.

Well going 0-7 to start the game doesn't help and 1-4 at the strips in the 1st puts you in a TS hole. Does 1 quarter of bad shooting erase 3 qtrs of overall good play?

Bonn1997 wrote:It's your opinion that only the eyeball test from watching the game warrants posting.
No one else had cited Melo's TS% from the game, which is regarded as a very important stat. Just from looking at the box score, I didn't realize it was that low in the game.
I actually admire people who don't waste their time watching this team.

So yea... its a FACT that TS% is a tiny piece of info in a much larger picture.

Im glad you admire someone who doesnt watch. Too bad you guys dont apply that same value to posting.

THjr had a great TS% right? Of course if you watched the game you would know he sucked for 3 qts, missed everything, no rebs, no assists and he got very hot in the 4th qtr. Over all he was a team WORST -13, but yea... its all about TS%

Crappy post Bonn... but thanks, you proved my point. Your all important stat doesnt tell very much here at all. What else ya got?

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:It's your opinion that only the eyeball test from watching the game warrants posting.
No one else had cited Melo's TS% from the game, which is regarded as a very important stat. Just from looking at the box score, I didn't realize it was that low in the game.
I actually admire people who don't waste their time watching this team.

Well going 0-7 to start the game doesn't help and 1-4 at the strips in the 1st puts you in a TS hole. Does 1 quarter of bad shooting erase 3 qtrs of overall good play?

Obviously it can. People care way too much about the order in which the misses and makes occur.

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:It's your opinion that only the eyeball test from watching the game warrants posting.
No one else had cited Melo's TS% from the game, which is regarded as a very important stat. Just from looking at the box score, I didn't realize it was that low in the game.
I actually admire people who don't waste their time watching this team.

Well going 0-7 to start the game doesn't help and 1-4 at the strips in the 1st puts you in a TS hole. Does 1 quarter of bad shooting erase 3 qtrs of overall good play?

At the end the team who scores the most points win. These guys dont value that stat so much..

fishmike wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:It's your opinion that only the eyeball test from watching the game warrants posting.
No one else had cited Melo's TS% from the game, which is regarded as a very important stat. Just from looking at the box score, I didn't realize it was that low in the game.
I actually admire people who don't waste their time watching this team.

Well going 0-7 to start the game doesn't help and 1-4 at the strips in the 1st puts you in a TS hole. Does 1 quarter of bad shooting erase 3 qtrs of overall good play?

yup.. this. Any Melo and his terrible TS% finishes +5, while Hardaway with his awesome TS% finishes -13

At the end the team who scores the most points win. These guys dont value that stat so much..

Papabear wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:

Clean wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:we lost this one on a wide open 3 for miller thanks to jr smith… this would have been a great win for this team

It was Pablo that left Miller. I blame woody for having that double the post scheme on defense. He doubles no matter how bad the post player is.

smith left miller to double team zack with chandler draped all over him there was no need to double that and leave one of the best three point shooters on the planet wide open from downtown

Papabear Says

They will never learn. After all season long they don't guard the 3 point shooters. It should have been a priority to stick with Miller the same way players stuck with Novak when he played for us. This was a sad loss and if you can't make stops in the last 3 minuets of a game you can't win games.

that was an odd moment.. up by two, the worst that zach could do, would be to tie the game unless he also gets fouled... so why even bother double teaming him then? that just killed the knicks..

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:Id didnt think Melo was particularly good tonight either

he missed 14 shots and had 2 assists. 43%TS. that's a loser's statline. and who was he guarding? whoever it was i assure you he had a very efficient scoring night.

man your a joke of a fan. Your really a tool. Why dont you and TFK just have a private forum so you can just post these messages while you wank each other?

Since you dont watch games, you just spout crap on a forum for fans who are actually interested in the team and results, I will fill you in. Melo mostly guarded Gasol the opposing team's center, the reason so Chandler could guard Zach who is more an interior scorer. Gasol had 8 points on 4-7 shooting.

Maybe go back to RealGM or did you and your buddy both get kicked off there?

why bring up my name fishmike? can you manage to have a discussion without throwing a tantrum like a 3 year old? seriously bro...

yellowboy90 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:Id didnt think Melo was particularly good tonight either

he missed 14 shots and had 2 assists. 43%TS. that's a loser's statline. and who was he guarding? whoever it was i assure you he had a very efficient scoring night.

man your a joke of a fan. Your really a tool. Why dont you and TFK just have a private forum so you can just post these messages while you wank each other?

Since you dont watch games, you just spout crap on a forum for fans who are actually interested in the team and results, I will fill you in. Melo mostly guarded Gasol the opposing team's center, the reason so Chandler could guard Zach who is more an interior scorer. Gasol had 8 points on 4-7 shooting.

Maybe go back to RealGM or did you and your buddy both get kicked off there?

I'm just curious but why do you let it bother you so much?

I am curious as well..

fishmike wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:It's your opinion that only the eyeball test from watching the game warrants posting.
No one else had cited Melo's TS% from the game, which is regarded as a very important stat. Just from looking at the box score, I didn't realize it was that low in the game.
I actually admire people who don't waste their time watching this team.

Well going 0-7 to start the game doesn't help and 1-4 at the strips in the 1st puts you in a TS hole. Does 1 quarter of bad shooting erase 3 qtrs of overall good play?

yup.. this. Any Melo and his terrible TS% finishes +5, while Hardaway with his awesome TS% finishes -13

At the end the team who scores the most points win. These guys dont value that stat so much..

If you mean basketball players as a whole then I would say more value that stat than you think. Durant has cited that he pays attention to his numbers and will not take a chance at the end of qtrs to try a heave because it would mess up his numbers. As more analytical guys enter the FO the more stats like that will evoke change in the mind of players because of teams using stats like that to determine what FAs to get and trades to make. I struggle with that stat some because of how fouls are called but that's just me and nothing is perfect.

yellowboy90 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:It's your opinion that only the eyeball test from watching the game warrants posting.
No one else had cited Melo's TS% from the game, which is regarded as a very important stat. Just from looking at the box score, I didn't realize it was that low in the game.
I actually admire people who don't waste their time watching this team.

Well going 0-7 to start the game doesn't help and 1-4 at the strips in the 1st puts you in a TS hole. Does 1 quarter of bad shooting erase 3 qtrs of overall good play?

yup.. this. Any Melo and his terrible TS% finishes +5, while Hardaway with his awesome TS% finishes -13

At the end the team who scores the most points win. These guys dont value that stat so much..

If you mean basketball players as a whole then I would say more value that stat than you think. Durant has cited that he pays attention to his numbers and will not take a chance at the end of qtrs to try a heave because it would mess up his numbers. As more analytical guys enter the FO the more stats like that will evoke change in the mind of players because of teams using stats like that to determine what FAs to get and trades to make. I struggle with that stat some because of how fouls are called but that's just me and nothing is perfect.

lebron and wade also mentioned how they are paying closer attention to the stat.. not necessarily TS, but their shooting% and being more efficient... Great players realize there is a fine line to being great or just very good... so they look for every edge.. I can't blame them..

yellowboy90 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:It's your opinion that only the eyeball test from watching the game warrants posting.
No one else had cited Melo's TS% from the game, which is regarded as a very important stat. Just from looking at the box score, I didn't realize it was that low in the game.
I actually admire people who don't waste their time watching this team.

Well going 0-7 to start the game doesn't help and 1-4 at the strips in the 1st puts you in a TS hole. Does 1 quarter of bad shooting erase 3 qtrs of overall good play?

yup.. this. Any Melo and his terrible TS% finishes +5, while Hardaway with his awesome TS% finishes -13

At the end the team who scores the most points win. These guys dont value that stat so much..

If you mean basketball players as a whole then I would say more value that stat than you think. Durant has cited that he pays attention to his numbers and will not take a chance at the end of qtrs to try a heave because it would mess up his numbers. As more analytical guys enter the FO the more stats like that will evoke change in the mind of players because of teams using stats like that to determine what FAs to get and trades to make. I struggle with that stat some because of how fouls are called but that's just me and nothing is perfect.

I see from the # 'show ignored posts' that my suggestion wasnt heeded. Oh well.. I tried lol

fishmike wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:It's your opinion that only the eyeball test from watching the game warrants posting.
No one else had cited Melo's TS% from the game, which is regarded as a very important stat. Just from looking at the box score, I didn't realize it was that low in the game.
I actually admire people who don't waste their time watching this team.

Well going 0-7 to start the game doesn't help and 1-4 at the strips in the 1st puts you in a TS hole. Does 1 quarter of bad shooting erase 3 qtrs of overall good play?

yup.. this. Any Melo and his terrible TS% finishes +5, while Hardaway with his awesome TS% finishes -13

At the end the team who scores the most points win. These guys dont value that stat so much..

If you mean basketball players as a whole then I would say more value that stat than you think. Durant has cited that he pays attention to his numbers and will not take a chance at the end of qtrs to try a heave because it would mess up his numbers. As more analytical guys enter the FO the more stats like that will evoke change in the mind of players because of teams using stats like that to determine what FAs to get and trades to make. I struggle with that stat some because of how fouls are called but that's just me and nothing is perfect.

a bit of tongue and cheek... every stat has a use. I mean its a stat. I actually like TS%, especially over an extended period of time... its a good stat. Looking at it for one game? Instead of actually watching and making statements like you know what happened? Thats just stupid.

I see from the # 'show ignored posts' that my suggestion wasnt heeded. Oh well.. I tried lol

Bonn.. who had the highest TS% on the Knicks for the game?

And if thats the end all be all most important stat for how a guy is impacting the game wouldnt it translate to the +/- ?

Im assuming that THjr had the best TS% of the game. Yet he's got the WORST +/-

Care to explain? Having WATCHED I can do that for you. THjr SUCKED the entire game. Then he got very hot late and drilled a bunch of 3s to help get us back in. Now you yourself said folks are too focused on WHEN shots are hit and not how many are missed right?

Fact is THjr played very poorly the entire game, and was a huge reason the Knicks were in the hole. Are his 4th qtr shots more important because he helped get the Knicks out of a hole he also helped put them in?

The point is simple... if you think TS% paints a picture of what happened last night (as one loser mentioned) your simply wrong. You needed to watch to understand what happened. The fact that the stats played out the way they did makes that point even clearer. Clear. As in something you see. Or dont. With your eyes. The ones in your head.

fishmike wrote:really Bonn? because +/- is the ultimate indication of what happened while that player was on the floor. So the point stands.

Bonn.. who had the highest TS% on the Knicks for the game?

And if thats the end all be all most important stat for how a guy is impacting the game wouldnt it translate to the +/- ?

Im assuming that THjr had the best TS% of the game. Yet he's got the WORST +/-

Care to explain? Having WATCHED I can do that for you. THjr SUCKED the entire game. Then he got very hot late and drilled a bunch of 3s to help get us back in. Now you yourself said folks are too focused on WHEN shots are hit and not how many are missed right?

Fact is THjr played very poorly the entire game, and was a huge reason the Knicks were in the hole. Are his 4th qtr shots more important because he helped get the Knicks out of a hole he also helped put them in?

The point is simple... if you think TS% paints a picture of what happened last night (as one loser mentioned) your simply wrong. You needed to watch to understand what happened. The fact that the stats played out the way they did makes that point even clearer. Clear. As in something you see. Or dont. With your eyes. The ones in your head.

You selectively use the +/- stat only when it supports your pre-existing beliefs. You ran away from the stat when I pointed out that there have been seasons when it indicated Melo was a below average NBA player.
If someone said TS% is the "be all end all stat" they're wrong and they have a clueless perspective on the role statistics would play in player evaluation. If you state that Melo has had seasons where he was a below average player, I'll at least give you a lot of credit for consistency (albeit misguided consistency).

tkf wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:It's your opinion that only the eyeball test from watching the game warrants posting.
No one else had cited Melo's TS% from the game, which is regarded as a very important stat. Just from looking at the box score, I didn't realize it was that low in the game.
I actually admire people who don't waste their time watching this team.

Well going 0-7 to start the game doesn't help and 1-4 at the strips in the 1st puts you in a TS hole. Does 1 quarter of bad shooting erase 3 qtrs of overall good play?

yup.. this. Any Melo and his terrible TS% finishes +5, while Hardaway with his awesome TS% finishes -13

At the end the team who scores the most points win. These guys dont value that stat so much..

If you mean basketball players as a whole then I would say more value that stat than you think. Durant has cited that he pays attention to his numbers and will not take a chance at the end of qtrs to try a heave because it would mess up his numbers. As more analytical guys enter the FO the more stats like that will evoke change in the mind of players because of teams using stats like that to determine what FAs to get and trades to make. I struggle with that stat some because of how fouls are called but that's just me and nothing is perfect.

lebron and wade also mentioned how they are paying closer attention to the stat.. not necessarily TS, but their shooting% and being more efficient... Great players realize there is a fine line to being great or just very good... so they look for every edge.. I can't blame them..

the edge they seek is found in actually distinguishing between good shots opportunities and bad shot opportunities.

carmelo anthony's big problem is he takes as many as 5-6 bad shots per game. if he were ever to actually make the distinction and therefore allow other players to take better shots then he would not come in for such criticism from me and others.

but as we know it's always his teammates who can't make shots. it's pathetic that melo's fans can't recognize that the way out of this phony chicken or egg deal is by carmelo anthony actually becoming a more efficient scorer in the manner i have laid out here. it would also increase his assists to closer to 4 per game i would bet.

i don't need to see the game to know that the player in question took too many bad shots.

bad shots hurt the team worse than most people imagine, especially come playoff time. this should be common knowledge but it eludes the fans of "volume shooters." not a fan of volume shooting.

blkexec wrote:

Clean wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:we lost this one on a wide open 3 for miller thanks to jr smith… this would have been a great win for this team

It was Pablo that left Miller. I blame woody for having that double the post scheme on defense. He doubles no matter how bad the post player is.

Doubling is not the total problem. It's the lack of defensive IQ as a team. If Pablo is doubling, there has to be some help on the back side. We didn't have the players for MDA and we don't have the defensive IQ for Woodson. This is a Management problem as well, don't count them out. Can we ever get a coach and roster alignment....

nope, never

fishmike wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:Id didnt think Melo was particularly good tonight either

he missed 14 shots and had 2 assists. 43%TS. that's a loser's statline. and who was he guarding? whoever it was i assure you he had a very efficient scoring night.

man your a joke of a fan. Your really a tool. Why dont you and TFK just have a private forum so you can just post these messages while you wank each other?

Since you dont watch games, you just spout crap on a forum for fans who are actually interested in the team and results, I will fill you in. Melo mostly guarded Gasol the opposing team's center, the reason so Chandler could guard Zach who is more an interior scorer. Gasol had 8 points on 4-7 shooting.

Maybe go back to RealGM or did you and your buddy both get kicked off there?

I'm just curious but why do you let it bother you so much?

oh it doesnt bother me in the slightest. I could care less what people on the internet say.

That being said this was once a flourishing community full of wit and comradery. Have you noticed many many long time posters simply dont post anymore? Its because of posts like the above. Its spam.

I actually have these donkees on ignore. But sometimes I play the "predict how a donkee he-haws" game so I click on an ignored post knowing its got some anti-melo fodder from guys who dont really follow the team aside from spamming the Knickforums they havent been kicked off yet. So I blast them. Its kind of fun in small doses, but mostly I just ignore.

There is obviously no changing it so just fight stupidity with hostility. At least today...

it's the knicks shyte-show that drives posters and fans away, not somebody like me who tries to analyze the reason why the knicks continue to be a laughingstock of the league. you're fight isn't with me since i am speaking factually. carmelo is a career-long poor shot selector and defender and this hurts the teams he plays on. your beef actually is with dolan and mills and carmelo anthony.

look at what durant is doing: he takes on the tougher defensive assignments, he has increased his number of shots while also getting others more involved... and he is maintaining his shoting percentages and efficiency.

the truth is that the knicks should not have traded for carmelo anthony and now we are in store for a prolonged period of mediocrity so long as remains a knick. well, maybe if he takes a paycut that gets him to around 13 million a year, that is.

hope he reads this forum and gets the message. or maybe he has me on ignore too?

dk7th wrote:

tkf wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:It's your opinion that only the eyeball test from watching the game warrants posting.
No one else had cited Melo's TS% from the game, which is regarded as a very important stat. Just from looking at the box score, I didn't realize it was that low in the game.
I actually admire people who don't waste their time watching this team.

Well going 0-7 to start the game doesn't help and 1-4 at the strips in the 1st puts you in a TS hole. Does 1 quarter of bad shooting erase 3 qtrs of overall good play?

yup.. this. Any Melo and his terrible TS% finishes +5, while Hardaway with his awesome TS% finishes -13

At the end the team who scores the most points win. These guys dont value that stat so much..

If you mean basketball players as a whole then I would say more value that stat than you think. Durant has cited that he pays attention to his numbers and will not take a chance at the end of qtrs to try a heave because it would mess up his numbers. As more analytical guys enter the FO the more stats like that will evoke change in the mind of players because of teams using stats like that to determine what FAs to get and trades to make. I struggle with that stat some because of how fouls are called but that's just me and nothing is perfect.

lebron and wade also mentioned how they are paying closer attention to the stat.. not necessarily TS, but their shooting% and being more efficient... Great players realize there is a fine line to being great or just very good... so they look for every edge.. I can't blame them..

the edge they seek is found in actually distinguishing between good shots opportunities and bad shot opportunities.

carmelo anthony's big problem is he takes as many as 5-6 bad shots per game. if he were ever to actually make the distinction and therefore allow other players to take better shots then he would not come in for such criticism from me and others.

but as we know it's always his teammates who can't make shots. it's pathetic that melo's fans can't recognize that the way out of this phony chicken or egg deal is by carmelo anthony actually becoming a more efficient scorer in the manner i have laid out here. it would also increase his assists to closer to 4 per game i would bet.

i don't need to see the game to know that the player in question took too many bad shots.

bad shots hurt the team worse than most people imagine, especially come playoff time. this should be common knowledge but it eludes the fans of "volume shooters." not a fan of volume shooting.

I agree, but I get the sense that he feels if he doesn't shoot, his team doesn't win. You will find guys like durant and lebron trusting their teamates, at times a bit too much, but that does allow for others games to excel. for instance, westbrook takes as many shots as Durant, yet it doesn't cause any friction and durant still will get his shots.. You don't see him competing with westbrook for shots.. if you are a good scorer, you are going to get the ball and get your shots, as you said, distinguishing between the good shots are most important...