Bonn1997 wrote:mreinman wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:mreinman wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:You're talking about a 5 game sample?
Tyson has a positive on/off +/-. I know people here hate him but the team is playing better when he's on the court.
was he worth what they paid him? No one else aside from GS offered him a competitive contract. And, aside from that, we needed a PG not a CB amnesty at the cost of having to keep Amare.
He was also the most overrated DPOY that I have ever seen.
No, Tim Hardaway Jr is our only player possibly worth what he's paid.
THJ is a good shooter but not much else. We are overrating him just like we do everyone else. He is as good as where he was picked (maybe a bit better)
You also defended Tyson way too much until now.
Too much is an opinion unless you have an argument with evidence.
Yeah, TH Jr doesn't offer a lot. He's possibly worth his salary since he's on a cheap contract.
"too" much is do to you overrating his 4-6 shooting/(dunking) qualities.
mreinman wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:You're talking about a 5 game sample?
Tyson has a positive on/off +/-. I know people here hate him but the team is playing better when he's on the court.
was he worth what they paid him? No one else aside from GS offered him a competitive contract. And, aside from that, we needed a PG not a CB amnesty at the cost of having to keep Amare.
He was also the most overrated DPOY that I have ever seen.
You might be too young to remember Alvin Robertson. Racked up a lot of steals, but would leave his man clear paths to the hoop. Marc Gasol was also suspect.
LivingLegend wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Season ended when he came back. Our defense went down the toilet as did our 5 game win streak
Tyson quit early and often on this team --- he didn't like some teammates or the coach and quit.
He deserves to be shipped out on the first good train (trade) we see.
I'm disappointed in Tyson too, but this thread fails to mention that we closed out January on a four game win streak with Tyson in the lineup. Maybe the KMart's injury is the thing that put the Kabosh on the season. I think the team misses his passing and his ability to switch some on smaller players.
BigDaddyG wrote:mreinman wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:You're talking about a 5 game sample?
Tyson has a positive on/off +/-. I know people here hate him but the team is playing better when he's on the court.
was he worth what they paid him? No one else aside from GS offered him a competitive contract. And, aside from that, we needed a PG not a CB amnesty at the cost of having to keep Amare.
He was also the most overrated DPOY that I have ever seen.
You might be too young to remember Alvin Robertson. Racked up a lot of steals, but would leave his man clear paths to the hoop. Marc Gasol was also suspect.
good post.
Tyson was way behind Ibaka and Lebron imho.
I remember a certain poster who used to post winning percentage when Melo and Amar'e where out compared to win they were playing. I would love to see Tyson win % this year and last year too. I'm just teasing. Tyson is not a big problem although Hubbie Brown alwaus has issue with Tyson when he calls the game. Tyson is just getting older and still not healthy probably.
yellowboy90 wrote:I remember a certain poster who used to post winning percentage when Melo and Amar'e where out compared to win they were playing. I would love to see Tyson win % this year and last year too. I'm just teasing. Tyson is not a big problem although Hubbie Brown alwaus has issue with Tyson when he calls the game. Tyson is just getting older and still not healthy probably.
I think it's pretty comparable. I know we were about .400 with Bargnani starting at center.
Why not just look at the on/off +/- numbers? That's a more precise indicator of how the team does with vs. without him.
BigDaddyG wrote:LivingLegend wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Season ended when he came back. Our defense went down the toilet as did our 5 game win streak
Tyson quit early and often on this team --- he didn't like some teammates or the coach and quit.
He deserves to be shipped out on the first good train (trade) we see.
I'm disappointed in Tyson too, but this thread fails to mention that we closed out January on a four game win streak with Tyson in the lineup. Maybe the KMart's injury is the thing that put the Kabosh on the season. I think the team misses his passing and his ability to switch some on smaller players.
That's a great point. Still doesn't excuse our "DPOY" though
Excuse him of what? Maybe people expect too much. He's just a 13 year veteran who gives a solid double double with above average defense.
If you look only at the games he played at least 20 min, I think he's averaging around 11 and 11 with a little under 2 blocks.
mreinman wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:mreinman wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:mreinman wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:You're talking about a 5 game sample?
Tyson has a positive on/off +/-. I know people here hate him but the team is playing better when he's on the court.
was he worth what they paid him? No one else aside from GS offered him a competitive contract. And, aside from that, we needed a PG not a CB amnesty at the cost of having to keep Amare.
He was also the most overrated DPOY that I have ever seen.
No, Tim Hardaway Jr is our only player possibly worth what he's paid.
THJ is a good shooter but not much else. We are overrating him just like we do everyone else. He is as good as where he was picked (maybe a bit better)
You also defended Tyson way too much until now.
Too much is an opinion unless you have an argument with evidence.
Yeah, TH Jr doesn't offer a lot. He's possibly worth his salary since he's on a cheap contract.
"too" much is do to you overrating his 4-6 shooting/(dunking) qualities.
OK, well now it's a slightly more detailed opinion
Bonn1997 wrote:Excuse him of what? Maybe people expect too much. He's just a 13 year veteran who gives a solid double double with above average defense.
If you look only at the games he played at least 20 min, I think he's averaging around 11 and 11 with a little under 2 blocks.
He is getting pulled for lack of effort
gunsnewing wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Excuse him of what? Maybe people expect too much. He's just a 13 year veteran who gives a solid double double with above average defense.
If you look only at the games he played at least 20 min, I think he's averaging around 11 and 11 with a little under 2 blocks.
He is getting pulled for lack of effort
So now people are giving validity to Woodson's decisions?
No because he's still PLaying JR way to many minutes who gives Zero effort
Iman Shumpert is our real "DPOY"
We miss him
The other guys are all talk
Actually guys like Tyson and some others on this team have the potential to play above average D. But never in Michael Woodson's gimmick switching system
Bonn1997 wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:I remember a certain poster who used to post winning percentage when Melo and Amar'e where out compared to win they were playing. I would love to see Tyson win % this year and last year too. I'm just teasing. Tyson is not a big problem although Hubbie Brown alwaus has issue with Tyson when he calls the game. Tyson is just getting older and still not healthy probably.
I think it's pretty comparable. I know we were about .400 with Bargnani starting at center.
Why not just look at the on/off +/- numbers? That's a more precise answer to of how the team does with vs. without him.
I know people are trying to figure out which players are the problem but you have to remember the coach is a huge part of the problem. Also, considering the losing mentality/culture that has set in, I am inclined to give certain players (Tyson, Shump) the benefit of the doubt that in the right situation they can turn it around.
I do think JR is a cancer and should be off the team. Barges I am not sure about but he really hasn't helped.
OasisBU wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:I remember a certain poster who used to post winning percentage when Melo and Amar'e where out compared to win they were playing. I would love to see Tyson win % this year and last year too. I'm just teasing. Tyson is not a big problem although Hubbie Brown alwaus has issue with Tyson when he calls the game. Tyson is just getting older and still not healthy probably.
I think it's pretty comparable. I know we were about .400 with Bargnani starting at center.
Why not just look at the on/off +/- numbers? That's a more precise answer to of how the team does with vs. without him.
I know people are trying to figure out which players are the problem but you have to remember the coach is a huge part of the problem. Also, considering the losing mentality/culture that has set in, I am inclined to give certain players (Tyson, Shump) the benefit of the doubt that in the right situation they can turn it around.
I do think JR is a cancer and should be off the team. Barges I am not sure about but he really hasn't helped.
Yeah, Tyson always should get the benefit of the doubt he is a champion.
The Knicks’ winning percentage in games he’s played this year is .316, in games he’s missed, it’s .416. Last year it was .636 with, .750 without.
That's not really a big difference.
Bonn1997 wrote:Excuse him of what? Maybe people expect too much. He's just a 13 year veteran who gives a solid double double with above average defense.
If you look only at the games he played at least 20 min, I think he's averaging around 11 and 11 with a little under 2 blocks.
Personally, he is producing what I expected. However, I can totally see why he would be letting people down given the contract/hype. Anybody who followed this guy knew the Knicks were over paying and taking more injury risks. Guy no showed in his 2 playoff seasons here and the Knicks completely struck out. The signing made no sense at the time and probably set team back 5 yrs or more by forcing us to hold Amare and capping us completely out. To me that is why there really is anger towards Tyson.
Erm... we sucked while Tyson was out- don't you remember? We sucked in Preseason, we sucked when Tyson was out and then we carried on sucking when he returned. We only did okay when K-Mart could play effective minutes. Tyson's had a poor year, but our guards have been diabolical.
smackeddog wrote:Erm... we sucked while Tyson was out- don't you remember? We sucked in Preseason, we sucked when Tyson was out and then we carried on sucking when he returned. We only did okay when K-Mart could play effective minutes. Tyson's had a poor year, but our guards have been diabolical.
This is the real problem. The guard play has been terrible. The pick and roll strategy makes no sense. Even when there is no screen, every PG on the roster, except Murry, gets beat 1 on 1 almost every time too. There are way too many players out of position because of the breakdown on virtually every possession.
yellowboy90 wrote:OasisBU wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:I remember a certain poster who used to post winning percentage when Melo and Amar'e where out compared to win they were playing. I would love to see Tyson win % this year and last year too. I'm just teasing. Tyson is not a big problem although Hubbie Brown alwaus has issue with Tyson when he calls the game. Tyson is just getting older and still not healthy probably.
I think it's pretty comparable. I know we were about .400 with Bargnani starting at center.
Why not just look at the on/off +/- numbers? That's a more precise answer to of how the team does with vs. without him.
I know people are trying to figure out which players are the problem but you have to remember the coach is a huge part of the problem. Also, considering the losing mentality/culture that has set in, I am inclined to give certain players (Tyson, Shump) the benefit of the doubt that in the right situation they can turn it around.
I do think JR is a cancer and should be off the team. Barges I am not sure about but he really hasn't helped.
Yeah, Tyson always should get the benefit of the doubt he is a champion.
The Knicks’ winning percentage in games he’s played this year is .316, in games he’s missed, it’s .416. Last year it was .636 with, .750 without.
That's not really a big difference.
I knew it was bad but that is a powerful stat. The stat matches the eye test.
