Knicks · Is Kevin Love a knick? (page 2)
smackeddog wrote:We need to establish a system and culture first. Then get some cheap role players who can work hard and play in that system. Only after that should we think about major players to add.
Culture is built around a team's best player though. The Heat are more uptempo because LeBron is at his best playing uptempo. Same with CP3 with the Clippers. Same with the Thunder and Durant/Westbrook.
NardDogNation wrote:smackeddog wrote:We need to establish a system and culture first. Then get some cheap role players who can work hard and play in that system. Only after that should we think about major players to add.Culture is built around a team's best player though. The Heat are more uptempo because LeBron is at his best playing uptempo. Same with CP3 with the Clippers. Same with the Thunder and Durant/Westbrook.
I agree and disagree. All those teams(borderline w/okc) have a defensive culture. When Lebron went to Miami they didn't work on establishing an up-tempo O Spoelstra focused on Defense during the offseason. Rivers wanted the Clippers to become a better defensive team.
I do know that Love can't be our best player, might be 1A, part of a big three, but not the centerpiece for this team to contend.
NardDogNation wrote:holfresh wrote:NardDogNation wrote:holfresh wrote:Playing style will dictate need..Phil and the new Head Caoch will figure that out..I'm a big proponent of impact players..Hard to describe..But Love and Irving haven't had big impacts on their franchise...Love has never been to the playoffs in 6 years..Shocking stat..Kevin Love is a top 10 player. Irving is regarded as the next big thing. How can you interpret that as them not having a big impact on their franchise? Yes. Those franchises suck but you don't think that their respective executives, coaches and teammates have much more to do with that? How many more good players from bad teams, getting traded and turning other teams into contenders do you need to realize that those good players were/are never the problem? Pau Gasol was a "loser" with the Grizzlies, then went to the Lakers and won two championships. Ray Allen, Paul Pierce and KG were tragically flawed yet magically won a championship when they became teammates. Chris Bosh was an "empty stats" player and has consistently been the 2nd best player on the Heat championship teams. Do I need to continue naming more examples or have I sufficiently proven the point?
Ok..If you say so, my eye test doesn't agree...KG carried his franchise alone, Melo carried Denver alone, Chris Paul carried NO with some help from West..Minny has some players..Deng, Irving, Jack and Waiters should be better...These teams were projected much higher at the start of the season..These guys are putting up good numbers with no winning effect on their teams..That's not top ten to me...How good is Kevin Love's supporting cast? Without him, they have a negative differential worse than the Bucks aka the worse team in the league. With Love on the floor, however, the Wolves have the best differential of any team in the league. Do you know how I know that? Because it was info provided in the same article you posted. So having read that, how can you suggest that Love is overrated/not a top 10 player?
As for the Cavs, I never saw them as being anything better than a lottery team. Why would I? Who else on that team could ever be an all-star? They are terrible for a reason.
I don't put too much stock in those numbers to be honest except wins...Point is, I have seen top players carry their teams to the playoffs with a poor supporting cast...Minny has a good center along with Kevin Martin and Corey Brewer..With Rubio, they should be good enough to make the playoffs...Cavs were predicted to be one of the most improved teams in the NBA by same stat guys that predicted the Knicks to win 37 games...Week 1-3, ESPN ranked the Wolves a top 5 team in the league, the held the number 3 spot for two weeks...
These are great players that put up really good numbers but does it translate to wins and playoffs, I haven't seen it yet...
Tossing max money at that, I don't know...
holfresh wrote:NardDogNation wrote:holfresh wrote:NardDogNation wrote:holfresh wrote:Playing style will dictate need..Phil and the new Head Caoch will figure that out..I'm a big proponent of impact players..Hard to describe..But Love and Irving haven't had big impacts on their franchise...Love has never been to the playoffs in 6 years..Shocking stat..Kevin Love is a top 10 player. Irving is regarded as the next big thing. How can you interpret that as them not having a big impact on their franchise? Yes. Those franchises suck but you don't think that their respective executives, coaches and teammates have much more to do with that? How many more good players from bad teams, getting traded and turning other teams into contenders do you need to realize that those good players were/are never the problem? Pau Gasol was a "loser" with the Grizzlies, then went to the Lakers and won two championships. Ray Allen, Paul Pierce and KG were tragically flawed yet magically won a championship when they became teammates. Chris Bosh was an "empty stats" player and has consistently been the 2nd best player on the Heat championship teams. Do I need to continue naming more examples or have I sufficiently proven the point?
Ok..If you say so, my eye test doesn't agree...KG carried his franchise alone, Melo carried Denver alone, Chris Paul carried NO with some help from West..Minny has some players..Deng, Irving, Jack and Waiters should be better...These teams were projected much higher at the start of the season..These guys are putting up good numbers with no winning effect on their teams..That's not top ten to me...How good is Kevin Love's supporting cast? Without him, they have a negative differential worse than the Bucks aka the worse team in the league. With Love on the floor, however, the Wolves have the best differential of any team in the league. Do you know how I know that? Because it was info provided in the same article you posted. So having read that, how can you suggest that Love is overrated/not a top 10 player?
As for the Cavs, I never saw them as being anything better than a lottery team. Why would I? Who else on that team could ever be an all-star? They are terrible for a reason.
I don't put too much stock in those numbers to be honest except wins...Point is, I have seen top players carry their teams to the playoffs with a poor supporting cast...Minny has a good center along with Kevin Martin and Corey Brewer..With Rubio, they should be good enough to make the playoffs...Cavs were predicted to be one of the most improved teams in the NBA by same stat guys that predicted the Knicks to win 37 games...Week 1-3, ESPN ranked the Wolves a top 5 team in the league, the held the number 3 spot for two weeks...
These are great players that put up really good numbers but does it translate to wins and playoffs, I haven't seen it yet...
Tossing max money at that, I don't know...
Like who? Even prime Kobe Bryant and Dwayne Wade have missed the playoffs. The only player I know of that beat the odds is LeBron and that was in an incredibly weak East. Let's also not forget that LeBron is one of the ten greatest players of all time, so you can't expect the average star/superstar to be able to do the same. There is, however, nothing to suggest that Love would not be worth a max deal if he has reasonable help on his team. I don't think journeymen who have hardly been integral to any successful team constitutes that, especially in the West where the competition is stacked.
And if the Cavs are suppose to be so good, why is their a narrative about how poor their drafting record has been? Can any of those guys, aside from Irving, consistently average 20ppg? Because the hallmark of a good team involves two individuals who can do that. Personally, I never thought the Cavs were going to be competitive this season.
NardDogNation wrote:holfresh wrote:NardDogNation wrote:holfresh wrote:NardDogNation wrote:holfresh wrote:Playing style will dictate need..Phil and the new Head Caoch will figure that out..I'm a big proponent of impact players..Hard to describe..But Love and Irving haven't had big impacts on their franchise...Love has never been to the playoffs in 6 years..Shocking stat..Kevin Love is a top 10 player. Irving is regarded as the next big thing. How can you interpret that as them not having a big impact on their franchise? Yes. Those franchises suck but you don't think that their respective executives, coaches and teammates have much more to do with that? How many more good players from bad teams, getting traded and turning other teams into contenders do you need to realize that those good players were/are never the problem? Pau Gasol was a "loser" with the Grizzlies, then went to the Lakers and won two championships. Ray Allen, Paul Pierce and KG were tragically flawed yet magically won a championship when they became teammates. Chris Bosh was an "empty stats" player and has consistently been the 2nd best player on the Heat championship teams. Do I need to continue naming more examples or have I sufficiently proven the point?
Ok..If you say so, my eye test doesn't agree...KG carried his franchise alone, Melo carried Denver alone, Chris Paul carried NO with some help from West..Minny has some players..Deng, Irving, Jack and Waiters should be better...These teams were projected much higher at the start of the season..These guys are putting up good numbers with no winning effect on their teams..That's not top ten to me...How good is Kevin Love's supporting cast? Without him, they have a negative differential worse than the Bucks aka the worse team in the league. With Love on the floor, however, the Wolves have the best differential of any team in the league. Do you know how I know that? Because it was info provided in the same article you posted. So having read that, how can you suggest that Love is overrated/not a top 10 player?
As for the Cavs, I never saw them as being anything better than a lottery team. Why would I? Who else on that team could ever be an all-star? They are terrible for a reason.
I don't put too much stock in those numbers to be honest except wins...Point is, I have seen top players carry their teams to the playoffs with a poor supporting cast...Minny has a good center along with Kevin Martin and Corey Brewer..With Rubio, they should be good enough to make the playoffs...Cavs were predicted to be one of the most improved teams in the NBA by same stat guys that predicted the Knicks to win 37 games...Week 1-3, ESPN ranked the Wolves a top 5 team in the league, the held the number 3 spot for two weeks...
These are great players that put up really good numbers but does it translate to wins and playoffs, I haven't seen it yet...
Tossing max money at that, I don't know...Like who? Even prime Kobe Bryant and Dwayne Wade have missed the playoffs. The only player I know of that beat the odds is LeBron and that was in an incredibly weak East. Let's also not forget that LeBron is one of the ten greatest players of all time, so you can't expect the average star/superstar to be able to do the same.
Every year?? Love has never been to the playoffs...His teams has posted one of the worst records in the NBA like 5 consecutive years..Their best year by far is this year where the Wolves are close to .500...Said this already KG, Melo, Chris Paul took their teams to the playoffs...For me, that defines a top player ...The East is incredibly weak now..
If I'm the GM, I'll take all these things into consideration, not just points and rebounds..
holfresh wrote:NardDogNation wrote:holfresh wrote:NardDogNation wrote:holfresh wrote:NardDogNation wrote:holfresh wrote:Playing style will dictate need..Phil and the new Head Caoch will figure that out..I'm a big proponent of impact players..Hard to describe..But Love and Irving haven't had big impacts on their franchise...Love has never been to the playoffs in 6 years..Shocking stat..Kevin Love is a top 10 player. Irving is regarded as the next big thing. How can you interpret that as them not having a big impact on their franchise? Yes. Those franchises suck but you don't think that their respective executives, coaches and teammates have much more to do with that? How many more good players from bad teams, getting traded and turning other teams into contenders do you need to realize that those good players were/are never the problem? Pau Gasol was a "loser" with the Grizzlies, then went to the Lakers and won two championships. Ray Allen, Paul Pierce and KG were tragically flawed yet magically won a championship when they became teammates. Chris Bosh was an "empty stats" player and has consistently been the 2nd best player on the Heat championship teams. Do I need to continue naming more examples or have I sufficiently proven the point?
Ok..If you say so, my eye test doesn't agree...KG carried his franchise alone, Melo carried Denver alone, Chris Paul carried NO with some help from West..Minny has some players..Deng, Irving, Jack and Waiters should be better...These teams were projected much higher at the start of the season..These guys are putting up good numbers with no winning effect on their teams..That's not top ten to me...How good is Kevin Love's supporting cast? Without him, they have a negative differential worse than the Bucks aka the worse team in the league. With Love on the floor, however, the Wolves have the best differential of any team in the league. Do you know how I know that? Because it was info provided in the same article you posted. So having read that, how can you suggest that Love is overrated/not a top 10 player?
As for the Cavs, I never saw them as being anything better than a lottery team. Why would I? Who else on that team could ever be an all-star? They are terrible for a reason.
I don't put too much stock in those numbers to be honest except wins...Point is, I have seen top players carry their teams to the playoffs with a poor supporting cast...Minny has a good center along with Kevin Martin and Corey Brewer..With Rubio, they should be good enough to make the playoffs...Cavs were predicted to be one of the most improved teams in the NBA by same stat guys that predicted the Knicks to win 37 games...Week 1-3, ESPN ranked the Wolves a top 5 team in the league, the held the number 3 spot for two weeks...
These are great players that put up really good numbers but does it translate to wins and playoffs, I haven't seen it yet...
Tossing max money at that, I don't know...Like who? Even prime Kobe Bryant and Dwayne Wade have missed the playoffs. The only player I know of that beat the odds is LeBron and that was in an incredibly weak East. Let's also not forget that LeBron is one of the ten greatest players of all time, so you can't expect the average star/superstar to be able to do the same.
Every year?? Love has never been to the playoffs...His teams has posted one of the worst records in the NBA like 5 consecutive years..Their best year by far is this year where the Wolves are close to .500...Said this already KG, Melo, Chris Paul took their teams to the playoffs...For me, that defines a top player ...The East is incredibly weak now..
If I'm the GM, I'll take all these things into consideration, not just points and rebounds..
playoffs have to do with the makeup of a team, not a player.
mreinman wrote:holfresh wrote:NardDogNation wrote:holfresh wrote:NardDogNation wrote:holfresh wrote:NardDogNation wrote:holfresh wrote:Playing style will dictate need..Phil and the new Head Caoch will figure that out..I'm a big proponent of impact players..Hard to describe..But Love and Irving haven't had big impacts on their franchise...Love has never been to the playoffs in 6 years..Shocking stat..Kevin Love is a top 10 player. Irving is regarded as the next big thing. How can you interpret that as them not having a big impact on their franchise? Yes. Those franchises suck but you don't think that their respective executives, coaches and teammates have much more to do with that? How many more good players from bad teams, getting traded and turning other teams into contenders do you need to realize that those good players were/are never the problem? Pau Gasol was a "loser" with the Grizzlies, then went to the Lakers and won two championships. Ray Allen, Paul Pierce and KG were tragically flawed yet magically won a championship when they became teammates. Chris Bosh was an "empty stats" player and has consistently been the 2nd best player on the Heat championship teams. Do I need to continue naming more examples or have I sufficiently proven the point?
Ok..If you say so, my eye test doesn't agree...KG carried his franchise alone, Melo carried Denver alone, Chris Paul carried NO with some help from West..Minny has some players..Deng, Irving, Jack and Waiters should be better...These teams were projected much higher at the start of the season..These guys are putting up good numbers with no winning effect on their teams..That's not top ten to me...How good is Kevin Love's supporting cast? Without him, they have a negative differential worse than the Bucks aka the worse team in the league. With Love on the floor, however, the Wolves have the best differential of any team in the league. Do you know how I know that? Because it was info provided in the same article you posted. So having read that, how can you suggest that Love is overrated/not a top 10 player?
As for the Cavs, I never saw them as being anything better than a lottery team. Why would I? Who else on that team could ever be an all-star? They are terrible for a reason.
I don't put too much stock in those numbers to be honest except wins...Point is, I have seen top players carry their teams to the playoffs with a poor supporting cast...Minny has a good center along with Kevin Martin and Corey Brewer..With Rubio, they should be good enough to make the playoffs...Cavs were predicted to be one of the most improved teams in the NBA by same stat guys that predicted the Knicks to win 37 games...Week 1-3, ESPN ranked the Wolves a top 5 team in the league, the held the number 3 spot for two weeks...
These are great players that put up really good numbers but does it translate to wins and playoffs, I haven't seen it yet...
Tossing max money at that, I don't know...Like who? Even prime Kobe Bryant and Dwayne Wade have missed the playoffs. The only player I know of that beat the odds is LeBron and that was in an incredibly weak East. Let's also not forget that LeBron is one of the ten greatest players of all time, so you can't expect the average star/superstar to be able to do the same.
Every year?? Love has never been to the playoffs...His teams has posted one of the worst records in the NBA like 5 consecutive years..Their best year by far is this year where the Wolves are close to .500...Said this already KG, Melo, Chris Paul took their teams to the playoffs...For me, that defines a top player ...The East is incredibly weak now..
If I'm the GM, I'll take all these things into consideration, not just points and rebounds..playoffs have to do with the makeup of a team, not a player.
That's a very true statement...But I would value a player who is able to carry his team to the playoffs with a poor roster than I would a guy who couldn't get to the playoffs his entire career..So I would say Melo is better than KLove but stat geeks rates Love higher..
holfresh wrote:NardDogNation wrote:holfresh wrote:NardDogNation wrote:holfresh wrote:NardDogNation wrote:holfresh wrote:Playing style will dictate need..Phil and the new Head Caoch will figure that out..I'm a big proponent of impact players..Hard to describe..But Love and Irving haven't had big impacts on their franchise...Love has never been to the playoffs in 6 years..Shocking stat..Kevin Love is a top 10 player. Irving is regarded as the next big thing. How can you interpret that as them not having a big impact on their franchise? Yes. Those franchises suck but you don't think that their respective executives, coaches and teammates have much more to do with that? How many more good players from bad teams, getting traded and turning other teams into contenders do you need to realize that those good players were/are never the problem? Pau Gasol was a "loser" with the Grizzlies, then went to the Lakers and won two championships. Ray Allen, Paul Pierce and KG were tragically flawed yet magically won a championship when they became teammates. Chris Bosh was an "empty stats" player and has consistently been the 2nd best player on the Heat championship teams. Do I need to continue naming more examples or have I sufficiently proven the point?
Ok..If you say so, my eye test doesn't agree...KG carried his franchise alone, Melo carried Denver alone, Chris Paul carried NO with some help from West..Minny has some players..Deng, Irving, Jack and Waiters should be better...These teams were projected much higher at the start of the season..These guys are putting up good numbers with no winning effect on their teams..That's not top ten to me...How good is Kevin Love's supporting cast? Without him, they have a negative differential worse than the Bucks aka the worse team in the league. With Love on the floor, however, the Wolves have the best differential of any team in the league. Do you know how I know that? Because it was info provided in the same article you posted. So having read that, how can you suggest that Love is overrated/not a top 10 player?
As for the Cavs, I never saw them as being anything better than a lottery team. Why would I? Who else on that team could ever be an all-star? They are terrible for a reason.
I don't put too much stock in those numbers to be honest except wins...Point is, I have seen top players carry their teams to the playoffs with a poor supporting cast...Minny has a good center along with Kevin Martin and Corey Brewer..With Rubio, they should be good enough to make the playoffs...Cavs were predicted to be one of the most improved teams in the NBA by same stat guys that predicted the Knicks to win 37 games...Week 1-3, ESPN ranked the Wolves a top 5 team in the league, the held the number 3 spot for two weeks...
These are great players that put up really good numbers but does it translate to wins and playoffs, I haven't seen it yet...
Tossing max money at that, I don't know...Like who? Even prime Kobe Bryant and Dwayne Wade have missed the playoffs. The only player I know of that beat the odds is LeBron and that was in an incredibly weak East. Let's also not forget that LeBron is one of the ten greatest players of all time, so you can't expect the average star/superstar to be able to do the same.
Every year?? Love has never been to the playoffs...His teams has posted one of the worst records in the NBA like 5 consecutive years..Their best year by far is this year where the Wolves are close to .500...Said this already KG, Melo, Chris Paul took their teams to the playoffs...For me, that defines a top player ...The East is incredibly weak now..
If I'm the GM, I'll take all these things into consideration, not just points and rebounds..
The point is to demonstrate that even players who are surefire HOF caliber players (like Wade and Kobe), are not impervious to shitty role players. I'm not sure why you are trying to pretend that this isn't the case. Why the hell is it that all of a sudden, at the peak of his game, Melo is going to miss the playoffs for the first time? This stuff isn't anything revolutionary; it's common sense.
holfresh wrote:mreinman wrote:holfresh wrote:NardDogNation wrote:holfresh wrote:NardDogNation wrote:holfresh wrote:NardDogNation wrote:holfresh wrote:Playing style will dictate need..Phil and the new Head Caoch will figure that out..I'm a big proponent of impact players..Hard to describe..But Love and Irving haven't had big impacts on their franchise...Love has never been to the playoffs in 6 years..Shocking stat..Kevin Love is a top 10 player. Irving is regarded as the next big thing. How can you interpret that as them not having a big impact on their franchise? Yes. Those franchises suck but you don't think that their respective executives, coaches and teammates have much more to do with that? How many more good players from bad teams, getting traded and turning other teams into contenders do you need to realize that those good players were/are never the problem? Pau Gasol was a "loser" with the Grizzlies, then went to the Lakers and won two championships. Ray Allen, Paul Pierce and KG were tragically flawed yet magically won a championship when they became teammates. Chris Bosh was an "empty stats" player and has consistently been the 2nd best player on the Heat championship teams. Do I need to continue naming more examples or have I sufficiently proven the point?
Ok..If you say so, my eye test doesn't agree...KG carried his franchise alone, Melo carried Denver alone, Chris Paul carried NO with some help from West..Minny has some players..Deng, Irving, Jack and Waiters should be better...These teams were projected much higher at the start of the season..These guys are putting up good numbers with no winning effect on their teams..That's not top ten to me...How good is Kevin Love's supporting cast? Without him, they have a negative differential worse than the Bucks aka the worse team in the league. With Love on the floor, however, the Wolves have the best differential of any team in the league. Do you know how I know that? Because it was info provided in the same article you posted. So having read that, how can you suggest that Love is overrated/not a top 10 player?
As for the Cavs, I never saw them as being anything better than a lottery team. Why would I? Who else on that team could ever be an all-star? They are terrible for a reason.
I don't put too much stock in those numbers to be honest except wins...Point is, I have seen top players carry their teams to the playoffs with a poor supporting cast...Minny has a good center along with Kevin Martin and Corey Brewer..With Rubio, they should be good enough to make the playoffs...Cavs were predicted to be one of the most improved teams in the NBA by same stat guys that predicted the Knicks to win 37 games...Week 1-3, ESPN ranked the Wolves a top 5 team in the league, the held the number 3 spot for two weeks...
These are great players that put up really good numbers but does it translate to wins and playoffs, I haven't seen it yet...
Tossing max money at that, I don't know...Like who? Even prime Kobe Bryant and Dwayne Wade have missed the playoffs. The only player I know of that beat the odds is LeBron and that was in an incredibly weak East. Let's also not forget that LeBron is one of the ten greatest players of all time, so you can't expect the average star/superstar to be able to do the same.
Every year?? Love has never been to the playoffs...His teams has posted one of the worst records in the NBA like 5 consecutive years..Their best year by far is this year where the Wolves are close to .500...Said this already KG, Melo, Chris Paul took their teams to the playoffs...For me, that defines a top player ...The East is incredibly weak now..
If I'm the GM, I'll take all these things into consideration, not just points and rebounds..playoffs have to do with the makeup of a team, not a player.
That's a very true statement...But I would value a player who is able to carry his team to the playoffs with a poor roster than I would a guy who couldn't get to the playoffs his entire career..So I would say Melo is better than KLove but stat geeks rates Love higher..
Name these fantasy players (not named LeBron) that carry poor teams to the playoffs.
NardDogNation wrote:holfresh wrote:mreinman wrote:holfresh wrote:NardDogNation wrote:holfresh wrote:NardDogNation wrote:holfresh wrote:NardDogNation wrote:holfresh wrote:Playing style will dictate need..Phil and the new Head Caoch will figure that out..I'm a big proponent of impact players..Hard to describe..But Love and Irving haven't had big impacts on their franchise...Love has never been to the playoffs in 6 years..Shocking stat..Kevin Love is a top 10 player. Irving is regarded as the next big thing. How can you interpret that as them not having a big impact on their franchise? Yes. Those franchises suck but you don't think that their respective executives, coaches and teammates have much more to do with that? How many more good players from bad teams, getting traded and turning other teams into contenders do you need to realize that those good players were/are never the problem? Pau Gasol was a "loser" with the Grizzlies, then went to the Lakers and won two championships. Ray Allen, Paul Pierce and KG were tragically flawed yet magically won a championship when they became teammates. Chris Bosh was an "empty stats" player and has consistently been the 2nd best player on the Heat championship teams. Do I need to continue naming more examples or have I sufficiently proven the point?
Ok..If you say so, my eye test doesn't agree...KG carried his franchise alone, Melo carried Denver alone, Chris Paul carried NO with some help from West..Minny has some players..Deng, Irving, Jack and Waiters should be better...These teams were projected much higher at the start of the season..These guys are putting up good numbers with no winning effect on their teams..That's not top ten to me...How good is Kevin Love's supporting cast? Without him, they have a negative differential worse than the Bucks aka the worse team in the league. With Love on the floor, however, the Wolves have the best differential of any team in the league. Do you know how I know that? Because it was info provided in the same article you posted. So having read that, how can you suggest that Love is overrated/not a top 10 player?
As for the Cavs, I never saw them as being anything better than a lottery team. Why would I? Who else on that team could ever be an all-star? They are terrible for a reason.
I don't put too much stock in those numbers to be honest except wins...Point is, I have seen top players carry their teams to the playoffs with a poor supporting cast...Minny has a good center along with Kevin Martin and Corey Brewer..With Rubio, they should be good enough to make the playoffs...Cavs were predicted to be one of the most improved teams in the NBA by same stat guys that predicted the Knicks to win 37 games...Week 1-3, ESPN ranked the Wolves a top 5 team in the league, the held the number 3 spot for two weeks...
These are great players that put up really good numbers but does it translate to wins and playoffs, I haven't seen it yet...
Tossing max money at that, I don't know...Like who? Even prime Kobe Bryant and Dwayne Wade have missed the playoffs. The only player I know of that beat the odds is LeBron and that was in an incredibly weak East. Let's also not forget that LeBron is one of the ten greatest players of all time, so you can't expect the average star/superstar to be able to do the same.
Every year?? Love has never been to the playoffs...His teams has posted one of the worst records in the NBA like 5 consecutive years..Their best year by far is this year where the Wolves are close to .500...Said this already KG, Melo, Chris Paul took their teams to the playoffs...For me, that defines a top player ...The East is incredibly weak now..
If I'm the GM, I'll take all these things into consideration, not just points and rebounds..playoffs have to do with the makeup of a team, not a player.
That's a very true statement...But I would value a player who is able to carry his team to the playoffs with a poor roster than I would a guy who couldn't get to the playoffs his entire career..So I would say Melo is better than KLove but stat geeks rates Love higher..Name these fantasy players (not named LeBron) that carry poor teams to the playoffs.
You asked me that same question three times now and I answered twice already..
holfresh wrote:NardDogNation wrote:holfresh wrote:NardDogNation wrote:holfresh wrote:Playing style will dictate need..Phil and the new Head Caoch will figure that out..I'm a big proponent of impact players..Hard to describe..But Love and Irving haven't had big impacts on their franchise...Love has never been to the playoffs in 6 years..Shocking stat..Kevin Love is a top 10 player. Irving is regarded as the next big thing. How can you interpret that as them not having a big impact on their franchise? Yes. Those franchises suck but you don't think that their respective executives, coaches and teammates have much more to do with that? How many more good players from bad teams, getting traded and turning other teams into contenders do you need to realize that those good players were/are never the problem? Pau Gasol was a "loser" with the Grizzlies, then went to the Lakers and won two championships. Ray Allen, Paul Pierce and KG were tragically flawed yet magically won a championship when they became teammates. Chris Bosh was an "empty stats" player and has consistently been the 2nd best player on the Heat championship teams. Do I need to continue naming more examples or have I sufficiently proven the point?
Ok..If you say so, my eye test doesn't agree...KG carried his franchise alone, Melo carried Denver alone, Chris Paul carried NO with some help from West..Minny has some players..Deng, Irving, Jack and Waiters should be better...These teams were projected much higher at the start of the season..These guys are putting up good numbers with no winning effect on their teams..That's not top ten to me...How good is Kevin Love's supporting cast? Without him, they have a negative differential worse than the Bucks aka the worse team in the league. With Love on the floor, however, the Wolves have the best differential of any team in the league. Do you know how I know that? Because it was info provided in the same article you posted. So having read that, how can you suggest that Love is overrated/not a top 10 player?
As for the Cavs, I never saw them as being anything better than a lottery team. Why would I? Who else on that team could ever be an all-star? They are terrible for a reason.
I don't put too much stock in those numbers to be honest except wins...Point is, I have seen top players carry their teams to the playoffs with a poor supporting cast...Minny has a good center along with Kevin Martin and Corey Brewer..With Rubio, they should be good enough to make the playoffs...Cavs were predicted to be one of the most improved teams in the NBA by same stat guys that predicted the Knicks to win 37 games...Week 1-3, ESPN ranked the Wolves a top 5 team in the league, the held the number 3 spot for two weeks...
These are great players that put up really good numbers but does it translate to wins and playoffs, I haven't seen it yet...
Tossing max money at that, I don't know...
what did we do with melo genius
dk7th wrote:holfresh wrote:NardDogNation wrote:holfresh wrote:NardDogNation wrote:holfresh wrote:Playing style will dictate need..Phil and the new Head Caoch will figure that out..I'm a big proponent of impact players..Hard to describe..But Love and Irving haven't had big impacts on their franchise...Love has never been to the playoffs in 6 years..Shocking stat..Kevin Love is a top 10 player. Irving is regarded as the next big thing. How can you interpret that as them not having a big impact on their franchise? Yes. Those franchises suck but you don't think that their respective executives, coaches and teammates have much more to do with that? How many more good players from bad teams, getting traded and turning other teams into contenders do you need to realize that those good players were/are never the problem? Pau Gasol was a "loser" with the Grizzlies, then went to the Lakers and won two championships. Ray Allen, Paul Pierce and KG were tragically flawed yet magically won a championship when they became teammates. Chris Bosh was an "empty stats" player and has consistently been the 2nd best player on the Heat championship teams. Do I need to continue naming more examples or have I sufficiently proven the point?
Ok..If you say so, my eye test doesn't agree...KG carried his franchise alone, Melo carried Denver alone, Chris Paul carried NO with some help from West..Minny has some players..Deng, Irving, Jack and Waiters should be better...These teams were projected much higher at the start of the season..These guys are putting up good numbers with no winning effect on their teams..That's not top ten to me...How good is Kevin Love's supporting cast? Without him, they have a negative differential worse than the Bucks aka the worse team in the league. With Love on the floor, however, the Wolves have the best differential of any team in the league. Do you know how I know that? Because it was info provided in the same article you posted. So having read that, how can you suggest that Love is overrated/not a top 10 player?
As for the Cavs, I never saw them as being anything better than a lottery team. Why would I? Who else on that team could ever be an all-star? They are terrible for a reason.
I don't put too much stock in those numbers to be honest except wins...Point is, I have seen top players carry their teams to the playoffs with a poor supporting cast...Minny has a good center along with Kevin Martin and Corey Brewer..With Rubio, they should be good enough to make the playoffs...Cavs were predicted to be one of the most improved teams in the NBA by same stat guys that predicted the Knicks to win 37 games...Week 1-3, ESPN ranked the Wolves a top 5 team in the league, the held the number 3 spot for two weeks...
These are great players that put up really good numbers but does it translate to wins and playoffs, I haven't seen it yet...
Tossing max money at that, I don't know...what did we do with melo genius
What u doing up so late...Checking in to get your Melo fix on??
NardDogNation wrote:smackeddog wrote:We need to establish a system and culture first. Then get some cheap role players who can work hard and play in that system. Only after that should we think about major players to add.Culture is built around a team's best player though. The Heat are more uptempo because LeBron is at his best playing uptempo. Same with CP3 with the Clippers. Same with the Thunder and Durant/Westbrook.
no you are misrepresenting the issue. lebron james is the ultimate complete player: he does EVERYTHING that basketball demands AT at least an average level. a high BBIQ is often but not always a corollary. combine that with his superior conditioning and innate athleticism and that's why he has greatness. does he have faults? they are not basketball-related strictly speaking they are business/entertainment related.
holfresh wrote:NardDogNation wrote:holfresh wrote:mreinman wrote:holfresh wrote:NardDogNation wrote:holfresh wrote:NardDogNation wrote:holfresh wrote:NardDogNation wrote:holfresh wrote:Playing style will dictate need..Phil and the new Head Caoch will figure that out..I'm a big proponent of impact players..Hard to describe..But Love and Irving haven't had big impacts on their franchise...Love has never been to the playoffs in 6 years..Shocking stat..Kevin Love is a top 10 player. Irving is regarded as the next big thing. How can you interpret that as them not having a big impact on their franchise? Yes. Those franchises suck but you don't think that their respective executives, coaches and teammates have much more to do with that? How many more good players from bad teams, getting traded and turning other teams into contenders do you need to realize that those good players were/are never the problem? Pau Gasol was a "loser" with the Grizzlies, then went to the Lakers and won two championships. Ray Allen, Paul Pierce and KG were tragically flawed yet magically won a championship when they became teammates. Chris Bosh was an "empty stats" player and has consistently been the 2nd best player on the Heat championship teams. Do I need to continue naming more examples or have I sufficiently proven the point?
Ok..If you say so, my eye test doesn't agree...KG carried his franchise alone, Melo carried Denver alone, Chris Paul carried NO with some help from West..Minny has some players..Deng, Irving, Jack and Waiters should be better...These teams were projected much higher at the start of the season..These guys are putting up good numbers with no winning effect on their teams..That's not top ten to me...How good is Kevin Love's supporting cast? Without him, they have a negative differential worse than the Bucks aka the worse team in the league. With Love on the floor, however, the Wolves have the best differential of any team in the league. Do you know how I know that? Because it was info provided in the same article you posted. So having read that, how can you suggest that Love is overrated/not a top 10 player?
As for the Cavs, I never saw them as being anything better than a lottery team. Why would I? Who else on that team could ever be an all-star? They are terrible for a reason.
I don't put too much stock in those numbers to be honest except wins...Point is, I have seen top players carry their teams to the playoffs with a poor supporting cast...Minny has a good center along with Kevin Martin and Corey Brewer..With Rubio, they should be good enough to make the playoffs...Cavs were predicted to be one of the most improved teams in the NBA by same stat guys that predicted the Knicks to win 37 games...Week 1-3, ESPN ranked the Wolves a top 5 team in the league, the held the number 3 spot for two weeks...
These are great players that put up really good numbers but does it translate to wins and playoffs, I haven't seen it yet...
Tossing max money at that, I don't know...Like who? Even prime Kobe Bryant and Dwayne Wade have missed the playoffs. The only player I know of that beat the odds is LeBron and that was in an incredibly weak East. Let's also not forget that LeBron is one of the ten greatest players of all time, so you can't expect the average star/superstar to be able to do the same.
Every year?? Love has never been to the playoffs...His teams has posted one of the worst records in the NBA like 5 consecutive years..Their best year by far is this year where the Wolves are close to .500...Said this already KG, Melo, Chris Paul took their teams to the playoffs...For me, that defines a top player ...The East is incredibly weak now..
If I'm the GM, I'll take all these things into consideration, not just points and rebounds..playoffs have to do with the makeup of a team, not a player.
That's a very true statement...But I would value a player who is able to carry his team to the playoffs with a poor roster than I would a guy who couldn't get to the playoffs his entire career..So I would say Melo is better than KLove but stat geeks rates Love higher..Name these fantasy players (not named LeBron) that carry poor teams to the playoffs.
You asked me that same question three times now and I answered twice already..
So your list includes CP3, KG and Melo.
With the Hornets, CP3 had Tyson Chandler, a future DPOY and a guy widely credited for making the Mavs a real contender; with Chris "I'm currently starting for the world champions" Andersen as Tyson's backup. He had David West in his prime who was an all-star and is currently a mainstay on a championship contender (the Pacers). CP3 had Pedrag Stojakovic, who was past his prime but was still one of the best shooters in the game. No matter because James Posey was able to fill in the gaps, the same James Posey who was instrumental in both the Celtics and Heat championship runs. He had, later in his career, Jarrett Jack, who when coming off the bench, is a perennial 6th man of the year type player. All of that, and you consider that to be a poor team?
As for KG, he by no means consistently had help but I think you are forgetting that there was never a serious playoff contender outside of the 8 playoff teams in the West, during most of Garnett's playoff runs. Whatever the case, for all his talents and at the pinnacle of his career, he missed the playoffs in 2006-2007 with a 32-50 record. The year before that, he missed it with a
33-49 record. The year before that, they missed it with a 44-38 record. So how can you make that claim considering the number of documented cases of Garnett NOT being able to overcome a poor supporting cast?
As for Melo, have you not been watching the season? Making the playoffs in the East requires that you be no more than 10 games below .500 and he's still not going to be able to will this team into the playoffs. This is no fault of Melo's, obviously, because he is at the best he's ever been for his career. But it's ridiculous to make this claim considering the most glaring and obvious evidence being in front of your face.
The simple fact is that basketball is a team game and no one player does anything alone. Fucking Michael Jordan had one of the greatest players ever on his team and at least a third all-star on all of his championship teams that helped him build his lore/mystique. If he needed capable help, every player needs help.
holfresh wrote:NardDogNation wrote:holfresh wrote:NardDogNation wrote:holfresh wrote:Playing style will dictate need..Phil and the new Head Caoch will figure that out..I'm a big proponent of impact players..Hard to describe..But Love and Irving haven't had big impacts on their franchise...Love has never been to the playoffs in 6 years..Shocking stat..Kevin Love is a top 10 player. Irving is regarded as the next big thing. How can you interpret that as them not having a big impact on their franchise? Yes. Those franchises suck but you don't think that their respective executives, coaches and teammates have much more to do with that? How many more good players from bad teams, getting traded and turning other teams into contenders do you need to realize that those good players were/are never the problem? Pau Gasol was a "loser" with the Grizzlies, then went to the Lakers and won two championships. Ray Allen, Paul Pierce and KG were tragically flawed yet magically won a championship when they became teammates. Chris Bosh was an "empty stats" player and has consistently been the 2nd best player on the Heat championship teams. Do I need to continue naming more examples or have I sufficiently proven the point?
Ok..If you say so, my eye test doesn't agree...KG carried his franchise alone, Melo carried Denver alone, Chris Paul carried NO with some help from West..Minny has some players..Deng, Irving, Jack and Waiters should be better...These teams were projected much higher at the start of the season..These guys are putting up good numbers with no winning effect on their teams..That's not top ten to me...How good is Kevin Love's supporting cast? Without him, they have a negative differential worse than the Bucks aka the worse team in the league. With Love on the floor, however, the Wolves have the best differential of any team in the league. Do you know how I know that? Because it was info provided in the same article you posted. So having read that, how can you suggest that Love is overrated/not a top 10 player?
As for the Cavs, I never saw them as being anything better than a lottery team. Why would I? Who else on that team could ever be an all-star? They are terrible for a reason.
I don't put too much stock in those numbers to be honest except wins...Point is, I have seen top players carry their teams to the playoffs with a poor supporting cast...Minny has a good center along with Kevin Martin and Corey Brewer..With Rubio, they should be good enough to make the playoffs...Cavs were predicted to be one of the most improved teams in the NBA by same stat guys that predicted the Knicks to win 37 games...Week 1-3, ESPN ranked the Wolves a top 5 team in the league, the held the number 3 spot for two weeks...
These are great players that put up really good numbers but does it translate to wins and playoffs, I haven't seen it yet...
Tossing max money at that, I don't know...
kevin love is worth more than carmelo anthony at the moment, which of course is no more than 14 million on potential to develop, since he's younger than carmelo anthony. if we have to rebuild he would be an okay second piece to a puzzle. a building block because he won't turn 26 until september. melo turns 30 in a few weeks. WTFU
EnySpree wrote:Melo and love are the same player basically.
This is the problem with Melo and Love pairing.
The biggest problem with this team is the need for a good PG and center.
NardDogNation wrote:holfresh wrote:NardDogNation wrote:holfresh wrote:mreinman wrote:holfresh wrote:NardDogNation wrote:holfresh wrote:NardDogNation wrote:holfresh wrote:NardDogNation wrote:holfresh wrote:Playing style will dictate need..Phil and the new Head Caoch will figure that out..I'm a big proponent of impact players..Hard to describe..But Love and Irving haven't had big impacts on their franchise...Love has never been to the playoffs in 6 years..Shocking stat..Kevin Love is a top 10 player. Irving is regarded as the next big thing. How can you interpret that as them not having a big impact on their franchise? Yes. Those franchises suck but you don't think that their respective executives, coaches and teammates have much more to do with that? How many more good players from bad teams, getting traded and turning other teams into contenders do you need to realize that those good players were/are never the problem? Pau Gasol was a "loser" with the Grizzlies, then went to the Lakers and won two championships. Ray Allen, Paul Pierce and KG were tragically flawed yet magically won a championship when they became teammates. Chris Bosh was an "empty stats" player and has consistently been the 2nd best player on the Heat championship teams. Do I need to continue naming more examples or have I sufficiently proven the point?
Ok..If you say so, my eye test doesn't agree...KG carried his franchise alone, Melo carried Denver alone, Chris Paul carried NO with some help from West..Minny has some players..Deng, Irving, Jack and Waiters should be better...These teams were projected much higher at the start of the season..These guys are putting up good numbers with no winning effect on their teams..That's not top ten to me...How good is Kevin Love's supporting cast? Without him, they have a negative differential worse than the Bucks aka the worse team in the league. With Love on the floor, however, the Wolves have the best differential of any team in the league. Do you know how I know that? Because it was info provided in the same article you posted. So having read that, how can you suggest that Love is overrated/not a top 10 player?
As for the Cavs, I never saw them as being anything better than a lottery team. Why would I? Who else on that team could ever be an all-star? They are terrible for a reason.
I don't put too much stock in those numbers to be honest except wins...Point is, I have seen top players carry their teams to the playoffs with a poor supporting cast...Minny has a good center along with Kevin Martin and Corey Brewer..With Rubio, they should be good enough to make the playoffs...Cavs were predicted to be one of the most improved teams in the NBA by same stat guys that predicted the Knicks to win 37 games...Week 1-3, ESPN ranked the Wolves a top 5 team in the league, the held the number 3 spot for two weeks...
These are great players that put up really good numbers but does it translate to wins and playoffs, I haven't seen it yet...
Tossing max money at that, I don't know...Like who? Even prime Kobe Bryant and Dwayne Wade have missed the playoffs. The only player I know of that beat the odds is LeBron and that was in an incredibly weak East. Let's also not forget that LeBron is one of the ten greatest players of all time, so you can't expect the average star/superstar to be able to do the same.
Every year?? Love has never been to the playoffs...His teams has posted one of the worst records in the NBA like 5 consecutive years..Their best year by far is this year where the Wolves are close to .500...Said this already KG, Melo, Chris Paul took their teams to the playoffs...For me, that defines a top player ...The East is incredibly weak now..
If I'm the GM, I'll take all these things into consideration, not just points and rebounds..playoffs have to do with the makeup of a team, not a player.
That's a very true statement...But I would value a player who is able to carry his team to the playoffs with a poor roster than I would a guy who couldn't get to the playoffs his entire career..So I would say Melo is better than KLove but stat geeks rates Love higher..Name these fantasy players (not named LeBron) that carry poor teams to the playoffs.
You asked me that same question three times now and I answered twice already..So your list includes CP3, KG and Melo.
With the Hornets, CP3 had Tyson Chandler, a future DPOY and a guy widely credited for making the Mavs a real contender; with Chris "I'm currently starting for the world champions" Andersen as Tyson's backup. He had David West in his prime who was an all-star and is currently a mainstay on a championship contender (the Pacers). CP3 had Pedrag Stojakovic, who was past his prime but was still one of the best shooters in the game. No matter because James Posey was able to fill in the gaps, the same James Posey who was instrumental in both the Celtics and Heat championship runs. He had, later in his career, Jarrett Jack, who when coming off the bench, is a perennial 6th man of the year type player. All of that, and you consider that to be a poor team?
As for KG, he by no means consistently had help but I think you are forgetting that there was never a serious playoff contender outside of the 8 playoff teams in the West, during most of Garnett's playoff runs. Whatever the case, for all his talents and at the pinnacle of his career, he missed the playoffs in 2006-2007 with a 32-50 record. The year before that, he missed it with a
33-49 record. The year before that, they missed it with a 44-38 record. So how can you make that claim considering the number of documented cases of Garnett NOT being able to overcome a poor supporting cast?As for Melo, have you not been watching the season? Making the playoffs in the East requires that you be no more than 10 games below .500 and he's still not going to be able to will this team into the playoffs. This is no fault of Melo's, obviously, because he is at the best he's ever been for his career. But it's ridiculous to make this claim considering the most glaring and obvious evidence being in front of your face.
The simple fact is that basketball is a team game and no one player does anything alone. Fucking Michael Jordan had one of the greatest players ever on his team and at least a third all-star on all of his championship teams that helped him build his lore/mystique. If he needed capable help, every player needs help.
Pierce, Dirk...I'm sure I could find a few more guys if I looked..
dk7th wrote:holfresh wrote:NardDogNation wrote:holfresh wrote:NardDogNation wrote:holfresh wrote:Playing style will dictate need..Phil and the new Head Caoch will figure that out..I'm a big proponent of impact players..Hard to describe..But Love and Irving haven't had big impacts on their franchise...Love has never been to the playoffs in 6 years..Shocking stat..Kevin Love is a top 10 player. Irving is regarded as the next big thing. How can you interpret that as them not having a big impact on their franchise? Yes. Those franchises suck but you don't think that their respective executives, coaches and teammates have much more to do with that? How many more good players from bad teams, getting traded and turning other teams into contenders do you need to realize that those good players were/are never the problem? Pau Gasol was a "loser" with the Grizzlies, then went to the Lakers and won two championships. Ray Allen, Paul Pierce and KG were tragically flawed yet magically won a championship when they became teammates. Chris Bosh was an "empty stats" player and has consistently been the 2nd best player on the Heat championship teams. Do I need to continue naming more examples or have I sufficiently proven the point?
Ok..If you say so, my eye test doesn't agree...KG carried his franchise alone, Melo carried Denver alone, Chris Paul carried NO with some help from West..Minny has some players..Deng, Irving, Jack and Waiters should be better...These teams were projected much higher at the start of the season..These guys are putting up good numbers with no winning effect on their teams..That's not top ten to me...How good is Kevin Love's supporting cast? Without him, they have a negative differential worse than the Bucks aka the worse team in the league. With Love on the floor, however, the Wolves have the best differential of any team in the league. Do you know how I know that? Because it was info provided in the same article you posted. So having read that, how can you suggest that Love is overrated/not a top 10 player?
As for the Cavs, I never saw them as being anything better than a lottery team. Why would I? Who else on that team could ever be an all-star? They are terrible for a reason.
I don't put too much stock in those numbers to be honest except wins...Point is, I have seen top players carry their teams to the playoffs with a poor supporting cast...Minny has a good center along with Kevin Martin and Corey Brewer..With Rubio, they should be good enough to make the playoffs...Cavs were predicted to be one of the most improved teams in the NBA by same stat guys that predicted the Knicks to win 37 games...Week 1-3, ESPN ranked the Wolves a top 5 team in the league, the held the number 3 spot for two weeks...
These are great players that put up really good numbers but does it translate to wins and playoffs, I haven't seen it yet...
Tossing max money at that, I don't know...kevin love is worth more than carmelo anthony at the moment, which of course is no more than 14 million on potential to develop, since he's younger than carmelo anthony. if we have to rebuild he would be an okay second piece to a puzzle. a building block because he won't turn 26 until september. melo turns 30 in a few weeks. WTFU
Who is better right now ??
holfresh wrote:dk7th wrote:holfresh wrote:NardDogNation wrote:holfresh wrote:NardDogNation wrote:holfresh wrote:Playing style will dictate need..Phil and the new Head Caoch will figure that out..I'm a big proponent of impact players..Hard to describe..But Love and Irving haven't had big impacts on their franchise...Love has never been to the playoffs in 6 years..Shocking stat..Kevin Love is a top 10 player. Irving is regarded as the next big thing. How can you interpret that as them not having a big impact on their franchise? Yes. Those franchises suck but you don't think that their respective executives, coaches and teammates have much more to do with that? How many more good players from bad teams, getting traded and turning other teams into contenders do you need to realize that those good players were/are never the problem? Pau Gasol was a "loser" with the Grizzlies, then went to the Lakers and won two championships. Ray Allen, Paul Pierce and KG were tragically flawed yet magically won a championship when they became teammates. Chris Bosh was an "empty stats" player and has consistently been the 2nd best player on the Heat championship teams. Do I need to continue naming more examples or have I sufficiently proven the point?
Ok..If you say so, my eye test doesn't agree...KG carried his franchise alone, Melo carried Denver alone, Chris Paul carried NO with some help from West..Minny has some players..Deng, Irving, Jack and Waiters should be better...These teams were projected much higher at the start of the season..These guys are putting up good numbers with no winning effect on their teams..That's not top ten to me...How good is Kevin Love's supporting cast? Without him, they have a negative differential worse than the Bucks aka the worse team in the league. With Love on the floor, however, the Wolves have the best differential of any team in the league. Do you know how I know that? Because it was info provided in the same article you posted. So having read that, how can you suggest that Love is overrated/not a top 10 player?
As for the Cavs, I never saw them as being anything better than a lottery team. Why would I? Who else on that team could ever be an all-star? They are terrible for a reason.
I don't put too much stock in those numbers to be honest except wins...Point is, I have seen top players carry their teams to the playoffs with a poor supporting cast...Minny has a good center along with Kevin Martin and Corey Brewer..With Rubio, they should be good enough to make the playoffs...Cavs were predicted to be one of the most improved teams in the NBA by same stat guys that predicted the Knicks to win 37 games...Week 1-3, ESPN ranked the Wolves a top 5 team in the league, the held the number 3 spot for two weeks...
These are great players that put up really good numbers but does it translate to wins and playoffs, I haven't seen it yet...
Tossing max money at that, I don't know...what did we do with melo genius
What u doing up so late...Checking in to get your Melo fix on??
me? i'm counting the money i earned honestly and hoping you may actually learn something. namely, maybe you'll be lucky this time around and learn what a waste carmelo anthony was at the price we paid... and that he should not be asking for more than 14 million. your pal crushalot thinks he deserves the max. omfg do you agree with that?