Knicks · How do we go about bring backing Cole Aldrich the right way? (page 1)
If we chose to keep Aldrich and wanted to give him a raise, would it have to come out of the MLE or is there another exception we could utilize to keep him? Do they still have the LLE? I wanna see this guy back, esp. if we wind up moving Chandler in a deal. Just feel it might take more than a league minimum contract -- he's worth over $2mm a season easy... Would hate to lose him a-la Chris Copeland if some other team comes along and offers more than we could. But then would hate to chew into the mid-level to keep him though, a reduced MLE at that since we're a tax-paying team... What are our options with Cole? Would love to have our cake and eat it too -- sign an impact player with the full MLE (I agree with Briggs that Patty Mills makes a lot of sense with the full tax-paying mid-level) and then still find a way to offer Aldrich a modest raise above league minimum value? Is that even possible?
I really can't believe we didn't give Cole a team option for next year. Gotten burned on this quite a few times now. With Phil mentioning that we'll be 'shaking the trees' for talent, it makes me think we'll be looking at a lot of low-salary players to fill out parts of the roster for next year. Hopefully Phil and company include 2nd year team options for these type of signings from now on. Very important. It's great insurance for the team if a low risk/high reward type actually performs well.. No-brainer.
I noticed Tyler has a team option for $800k next year
fishmike wrote:2 years $4mm. Or bye bye. He's a nice insurance policy and he can clog the lane and eat up some bench minutes.I noticed Tyler has a team option for $800k next year
Right saw that too -- funny, I think they gave it to the wrong player. At least they're learning...Just don't see it with Tyler at all. Really wish Cole's contract included the 2nd year team option.
So say we offered that type of deal to Cole (2 years, $4mm), would that have to come out of our mid-level exception?
Finestrg wrote:Pretty sure we own some kind of early bird rights that allows us to resign him w/o using the MLE. We will use that for some Euro guy... the next Mosgov probablyfishmike wrote:2 years $4mm. Or bye bye. He's a nice insurance policy and he can clog the lane and eat up some bench minutes.I noticed Tyler has a team option for $800k next year
Right saw that too -- funny, I think they gave it to the wrong player. At least they're learning...Just don't see it with Tyler at all. Really wish Cole's contract included the 2nd year team option.
So say we offered that type of deal to Cole (2 years, $4mm), would that have to come out of our our mid-level exception?
Per Wikipedia:
Non-Bird exception -- "Non-qualifying free agents" (those who do not qualify under either the Larry Bird exception or the early Bird exception) are subject to the non-Bird exception. Under this exception, teams can re-sign a player to a contract beginning at either 120% of his salary for the previous season, or 120% of the league's minimum salary, whichever amount is higher. Contracts signed under the Non-Bird exception can last up to four years (down from six under the 2005 CBA).
It would just suck if some team came along and offered a hair more than the minimum for Cole and we had to pass because we're over the cap and chose to focus the full reduced MLE on another player. Something's wrong with this if this is our only option. New rules seem way to harsh for teams over the salary cap. I mean we're a team that's gonna win 30-something games this year; one of the worst teams in the league, with no picks. Granted this is all our fault but come on man -- maybe more factors need to be added to the equation for tax-paying teams to improve themselves. It seems way too restrictive... Talking about possibly not being able to keep Cole Aldrich for $2 million dollars here.
Sounds like we could offer him two years about $3mm then under those guidelines, but I feel like if we match an offer it doesnt affect the MLE.
Ideally, he'd agree to a Non-Bird contract and we could use the MLE on a different player(s).
VCoug wrote:There are two different exceptions we could use to resign Aldrich this Summer. There is the taxpayer MLE which starts around $3M/year and can be split up amongst multiple players. We also have his Non-Bird rights which would allow us to resign him at a salary starting at 120% of his salary this year or the minimum, whichever is higher. I believe that we could offer him a contract starting at about $1.099M which is 120% of the minimum for a player with 4 years experience. The only other way to resign him is if he agreed to another year at the minimum; the other exceptions aren't available to us because we're too far over the luxury tax.Ideally, he'd agree to a Non-Bird contract and we could use the MLE on a different player(s).
Ok, there ya go. Just wanted to see that we had options above a vet minimum deal. Didn't know if the non-Bird was for non-tax paying teams only, etc, etc.. Bottom line and we saw more of it last night -- Cole Aldrich is a very capable NBA 5-man that brings a lot to the table. Well above average rebounder and rim protector and not too terrible around the basket offensively. If we could get him to come back for a deal starting around $2mm, come back in a little better shape, etc. -- I wouldn't even mind if the next coach (Kerr?) started him in the middle next year. If we could re-sign Aldrich, add another decent, well-rounded 7' on the cheap somewhere to split time with Cole (Marcus Cousin?), grab one more PF on the cheap somewhere (a guy like Richard Howell, a DeJuan Blair clone I've had my eye on for some time now or a guy like Jamelle Hagins maybe?), maybe another cheap SF with size & talent (Devin Ebanks?), I think that might be all we need to remodel the frontcourt for next season. Then we could focus our MLE on a sensible PG upgrade (someone like Patty Mills). And just my personal opinion -- Aldrich (at increased minutes, say in the 25 min/night range) along with a guy like Marcus Cousin is so much more value than Chandler alone playing 35 mins a night. Come up with some sensible upgrades like this for the 5-spot and deal Chandler for help in other areas. All for it...Then maybe trade Shumpert to get into the low end of the 1st round this draft for another PG projected to go late 1st/early 2nd(Russ Smith, Deonte Burton?). That would be my plan to maximize a re-tool around a re-signed Carmelo Anthony (if we indeed retain Melo) on the limited budget we'll be working with (including no draft picks this year)..Here's hoping this is what Phil meant by 'shaking the bushes' for talent. We can do an awful lot going the bargain-bin route. I've always thought that..
fishmike wrote:maybe we have the option to match? How did we have rights on Lin?Sounds like we could offer him two years about $3mm then under those guidelines, but I feel like if we match an offer it doesnt affect the MLE.
We claimed Lin off waivers. There was the verdict a couple weeks before the whole Morey shtick that decided claiming a guy off waivers was a continuation of the previous contract, and allowed the extra year to count towards his Bird rights. Something along those lines.
MaTT4281 wrote:fishmike wrote:maybe we have the option to match? How did we have rights on Lin?Sounds like we could offer him two years about $3mm then under those guidelines, but I feel like if we match an offer it doesnt affect the MLE.
We claimed Lin off waivers. There was the verdict a couple weeks before the whole Morey shtick that decided claiming a guy off waivers was a continuation of the previous contract, and allowed the extra year to count towards his Bird rights. Something along those lines.
Yeah, that's exactly it. Since a player picked up off waivers doesn't hit free agency and isn't allowed to choose their team the judge/arbitrator ruled that it's effectively the same as being traded.
on this team though.... he compensates well with his rebounding and that's why he's a good to keep... for this team. depending on who we have on this team next year... he could be easily expendable.
Cartman718 wrote:in a team that rebounds terribly for their size.... minus Melo, this guy actually rebounds very well for the minutes he gets. with more minutes he'd have a better rhythm, but offensively is he more skilled than Amare or Chandler... hell no. He still doesn't roll well to the basket.on this team though.... he compensates well with his rebounding and that's why he's a good to keep... for this team. depending on who we have on this team next year... he could be easily expendable.
He does have a hook shot which means he can hit a shot that isn't a dunk. Chandler doesn't have that ability. I wonder if with minutes Cole could become as prolific a scorer off the gotham lob as Chandler is.
CrushAlot wrote:Cartman718 wrote:in a team that rebounds terribly for their size.... minus Melo, this guy actually rebounds very well for the minutes he gets. with more minutes he'd have a better rhythm, but offensively is he more skilled than Amare or Chandler... hell no. He still doesn't roll well to the basket.on this team though.... he compensates well with his rebounding and that's why he's a good to keep... for this team. depending on who we have on this team next year... he could be easily expendable.
He does have a hook shot which means he can hit a shot that isn't a dunk. Chandler doesn't have that ability. I wonder if with minutes Cole could become as prolific a scorer off the gotham lob as Chandler is.
his jumping ability is not better than chandler's and he's not as tall as chandler. probably smaller wingspan too.
Cartman718 wrote:I agree. I have had a pretty strong bias against Chandler since his comments and play last spring. He has more value then I give him credit for. I just want the knicks to move on.CrushAlot wrote:Cartman718 wrote:in a team that rebounds terribly for their size.... minus Melo, this guy actually rebounds very well for the minutes he gets. with more minutes he'd have a better rhythm, but offensively is he more skilled than Amare or Chandler... hell no. He still doesn't roll well to the basket.on this team though.... he compensates well with his rebounding and that's why he's a good to keep... for this team. depending on who we have on this team next year... he could be easily expendable.
He does have a hook shot which means he can hit a shot that isn't a dunk. Chandler doesn't have that ability. I wonder if with minutes Cole could become as prolific a scorer off the gotham lob as Chandler is.his jumping ability is not better than chandler's and he's not as tall as chandler. probably smaller wingspan too.
CrushAlot wrote:Cartman718 wrote:I agree. I have had a pretty strong bias against Chandler since his comments and play last spring. He has more value then I give him credit for. I just want the knicks to move on.CrushAlot wrote:Cartman718 wrote:in a team that rebounds terribly for their size.... minus Melo, this guy actually rebounds very well for the minutes he gets. with more minutes he'd have a better rhythm, but offensively is he more skilled than Amare or Chandler... hell no. He still doesn't roll well to the basket.on this team though.... he compensates well with his rebounding and that's why he's a good to keep... for this team. depending on who we have on this team next year... he could be easily expendable.
He does have a hook shot which means he can hit a shot that isn't a dunk. Chandler doesn't have that ability. I wonder if with minutes Cole could become as prolific a scorer off the gotham lob as Chandler is.his jumping ability is not better than chandler's and he's not as tall as chandler. probably smaller wingspan too.
i am pretty sure that for the money we pay him, we could find a better player. not a fan of flu-son chandler either.
Cartman718 wrote:his measurements were solid... 6'11 and 7'4.75 wingspan. He's got the size to clog the lane. I like how he plays. He just strikes me as really limited and his finishing is silly. He goes up like he's gonna have a monster jam and then is just like uh ohCrushAlot wrote:Cartman718 wrote:in a team that rebounds terribly for their size.... minus Melo, this guy actually rebounds very well for the minutes he gets. with more minutes he'd have a better rhythm, but offensively is he more skilled than Amare or Chandler... hell no. He still doesn't roll well to the basket.on this team though.... he compensates well with his rebounding and that's why he's a good to keep... for this team. depending on who we have on this team next year... he could be easily expendable.
He does have a hook shot which means he can hit a shot that isn't a dunk. Chandler doesn't have that ability. I wonder if with minutes Cole could become as prolific a scorer off the gotham lob as Chandler is.his jumping ability is not better than chandler's and he's not as tall as chandler. probably smaller wingspan too.
fishmike wrote:Cartman718 wrote:his measurements were solid... 6'11 and 7'4.75 wingspan. He's got the size to clog the lane. I like how he plays. He just strikes me as really limited and his finishing is silly. He goes up like he's gonna have a monster jam and then is just like uh ohCrushAlot wrote:Cartman718 wrote:in a team that rebounds terribly for their size.... minus Melo, this guy actually rebounds very well for the minutes he gets. with more minutes he'd have a better rhythm, but offensively is he more skilled than Amare or Chandler... hell no. He still doesn't roll well to the basket.on this team though.... he compensates well with his rebounding and that's why he's a good to keep... for this team. depending on who we have on this team next year... he could be easily expendable.
He does have a hook shot which means he can hit a shot that isn't a dunk. Chandler doesn't have that ability. I wonder if with minutes Cole could become as prolific a scorer off the gotham lob as Chandler is.his jumping ability is not better than chandler's and he's not as tall as chandler. probably smaller wingspan too.
I'm not impressed with his game in the overall sense - however - Cole is incredibly strong and I could certainly see him turning into a Reggie Evans type of player (hopefully, w/o the nut grabbing)
Cartman718 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Cartman718 wrote:I agree. I have had a pretty strong bias against Chandler since his comments and play last spring. He has more value then I give him credit for. I just want the knicks to move on.CrushAlot wrote:Cartman718 wrote:in a team that rebounds terribly for their size.... minus Melo, this guy actually rebounds very well for the minutes he gets. with more minutes he'd have a better rhythm, but offensively is he more skilled than Amare or Chandler... hell no. He still doesn't roll well to the basket.on this team though.... he compensates well with his rebounding and that's why he's a good to keep... for this team. depending on who we have on this team next year... he could be easily expendable.
He does have a hook shot which means he can hit a shot that isn't a dunk. Chandler doesn't have that ability. I wonder if with minutes Cole could become as prolific a scorer off the gotham lob as Chandler is.his jumping ability is not better than chandler's and he's not as tall as chandler. probably smaller wingspan too.
i am pretty sure that for the money we pay him, we could find a better player. not a fan of flu-son chandler either.
I think Chandler is an incredibly important player. But he is more of a finishing piece for a roster... his salary fits better with, say, OKC than here, especially when the backcourt is beyond bad
SupremeCommander wrote:I agree... he's the ultimate roll player. Not to compare him to Rodman, but did the Bulls ask him to score? Or Ben Wallace.. Tyson like those guys is not a complete player but any stretch. Surround him with the right system and focus on his strengths and he's a high impact player. We have no system on defense. Our system is sometimes play it, sometimes dont. Probably why Tyson looks great for stretches and horrible for others.Cartman718 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Cartman718 wrote:I agree. I have had a pretty strong bias against Chandler since his comments and play last spring. He has more value then I give him credit for. I just want the knicks to move on.CrushAlot wrote:Cartman718 wrote:in a team that rebounds terribly for their size.... minus Melo, this guy actually rebounds very well for the minutes he gets. with more minutes he'd have a better rhythm, but offensively is he more skilled than Amare or Chandler... hell no. He still doesn't roll well to the basket.on this team though.... he compensates well with his rebounding and that's why he's a good to keep... for this team. depending on who we have on this team next year... he could be easily expendable.
He does have a hook shot which means he can hit a shot that isn't a dunk. Chandler doesn't have that ability. I wonder if with minutes Cole could become as prolific a scorer off the gotham lob as Chandler is.his jumping ability is not better than chandler's and he's not as tall as chandler. probably smaller wingspan too.
i am pretty sure that for the money we pay him, we could find a better player. not a fan of flu-son chandler either.
I think Chandler is an incredibly important player. But he is more of a finishing piece for a roster... his salary fits better with, say, OKC than here, especially when the backcourt is beyond bad