Knicks · One thing Phil Jackson and the Knicks must understand. We are the most hated team in the NBA. Expect help or deals from no one. (page 1)

As you can see we made our bed hard so we must sleep in it. Phil Jackson will not get help the same way Danny Ainge got when he got Garnet and Ray Allen for really nothing from his buddies. The Knicks are hated by all the teams. We are the Mecca of Basketball and we suck. Any trade we make we will be on the loosing end because no one wants to give us anything. No one really wanted us as the 8th seed either. We will have to build by getting players from over seas. All Phil can do is get Odoms to play for us? Next season will be more like this season if we can't get better players. The Heat and Brooklyn could have won those last 2 games but they didn't and we have no fault to blame but ourselves. Now it is time to see what Jackson can do if anything.

Those players werent gifted to Boston, they traded things the Knicks dont have.

I do find this thread amusing...the Knicks have one of the greatest basketball minds in the organization now, and there are doubts of what he could do.

But this garbage roster was defended to sheer eternity.

NardDogNation wrote:If we keep Melo, I want to see a deal for Josh Smith and Greg Monroe. A frontcourt with those 3 and Amare as our 6th man would be pretty good in the triangle. Hopefully we could get a deal for OJ Mayo as well to be our point.

Stop with the Josh Smith stuff. He is everything that you don't want in a player.

knickscity wrote:What help did Ainge actually get? They gave up Al Jefferson in one deal and a top 5 draft pick in another to acquire those guys.

Those players werent gifted to Boston, they traded things the Knicks dont have.

I do find this thread amusing...the Knicks have one of the greatest basketball minds in the organization now, and there are doubts of what he could do.

But this garbage roster was defended to sheer eternity.

Papabear Says

So what you are telling me that if we were able to make the same offer we could have gotten Garnett and Ray Allen. That is BS!!!

Papabear wrote:

knickscity wrote:What help did Ainge actually get? They gave up Al Jefferson in one deal and a top 5 draft pick in another to acquire those guys.

Those players werent gifted to Boston, they traded things the Knicks dont have.

I do find this thread amusing...the Knicks have one of the greatest basketball minds in the organization now, and there are doubts of what he could do.

But this garbage roster was defended to sheer eternity.

Papabear Says

So what you are telling me that if we were able to make the same offer we could have gotten Garnett and Ray Allen. That is BS!!!

What I am telling you is Boston gave up quality to get those guys.

mreinman wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:If we keep Melo, I want to see a deal for Josh Smith and Greg Monroe. A frontcourt with those 3 and Amare as our 6th man would be pretty good in the triangle. Hopefully we could get a deal for OJ Mayo as well to be our point.

Stop with the Josh Smith stuff. He is everything that you don't want in a player.

There are always players who "is everything you don't want in a player" that conveniently shed that title when they get better teammates. People seem to forget that he was a perennial all-star candidate.

knickscity wrote:

Papabear wrote:

knickscity wrote:What help did Ainge actually get? They gave up Al Jefferson in one deal and a top 5 draft pick in another to acquire those guys.

Those players werent gifted to Boston, they traded things the Knicks dont have.

I do find this thread amusing...the Knicks have one of the greatest basketball minds in the organization now, and there are doubts of what he could do.

But this garbage roster was defended to sheer eternity.

Papabear Says

So what you are telling me that if we were able to make the same offer we could have gotten Garnett and Ray Allen. That is BS!!!

No we couldnt, because we dont have a big man capable of 20-10 or a top 5 pick in the draft coming up....like Boston did.

What I am telling you is Boston gave up quality to get those guys.

Papabear Says

MAN LISTEN TO WHAT I AM SAYING!!! if we were able to make the same offer (same players) could have gotten Garnett and Ray Allen. That is BS!!!

NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:If we keep Melo, I want to see a deal for Josh Smith and Greg Monroe. A frontcourt with those 3 and Amare as our 6th man would be pretty good in the triangle. Hopefully we could get a deal for OJ Mayo as well to be our point.

Stop with the Josh Smith stuff. He is everything that you don't want in a player.

There are always players who "is everything you don't want in a player" that conveniently shed that title when they get better teammates. People seem to forget that he was a perennial all-star candidate.

all star means nothing. fans are idiots and have no idea what constitutes a good player.

Papabear wrote:

knickscity wrote:What help did Ainge actually get? They gave up Al Jefferson in one deal and a top 5 draft pick in another to acquire those guys.

Those players werent gifted to Boston, they traded things the Knicks dont have.

I do find this thread amusing...the Knicks have one of the greatest basketball minds in the organization now, and there are doubts of what he could do.

But this garbage roster was defended to sheer eternity.

Papabear Says

So what you are telling me that if we were able to make the same offer we could have gotten Garnett and Ray Allen. That is BS!!!

Business is business. I doubt that any team would pass on an opportunity to improve themselves, to spite the city of New York. Its hard to even argue the counterpoint because we've had so little talent to bargain with in trades. Who would want to clamor for the opportunity to trade for 2009 Eddy Curry? Jerome James? Etc.

NardDogNation wrote:

Papabear wrote:

knickscity wrote:What help did Ainge actually get? They gave up Al Jefferson in one deal and a top 5 draft pick in another to acquire those guys.

Those players werent gifted to Boston, they traded things the Knicks dont have.

I do find this thread amusing...the Knicks have one of the greatest basketball minds in the organization now, and there are doubts of what he could do.

But this garbage roster was defended to sheer eternity.

Papabear Says

So what you are telling me that if we were able to make the same offer we could have gotten Garnett and Ray Allen. That is BS!!!

Business is business. I doubt that any team would pass on an opportunity to improve themselves, to spite the city of New York. Its hard to even argue the counterpoint because we've had so little talent to bargain with in trades. Who would want to clamor for the opportunity to trade for 2009 Eddy Curry? Jerome James? Etc.

Papabear Says

Thats BS we gave away Ariza, Zach Randolph, Crawford, for little or nothing in order to make cap space and we was winning with Zach and Crawford. Ahh thats right we was so sure to get LeBron.

Papabear wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Papabear wrote:

knickscity wrote:What help did Ainge actually get? They gave up Al Jefferson in one deal and a top 5 draft pick in another to acquire those guys.

Those players werent gifted to Boston, they traded things the Knicks dont have.

I do find this thread amusing...the Knicks have one of the greatest basketball minds in the organization now, and there are doubts of what he could do.

But this garbage roster was defended to sheer eternity.

Papabear Says

So what you are telling me that if we were able to make the same offer we could have gotten Garnett and Ray Allen. That is BS!!!

No we couldnt, because we dont have a big man capable of 20-10 or a top 5 pick in the draft coming up....like Boston did.

What I am telling you is Boston gave up quality to get those guys.

Papabear Says

MAN LISTEN TO WHAT I AM SAYING!!! if we were able to make the same offer (same players) could have gotten Garnett and Ray Allen. That is BS!!!

I dont recall the Knicks giving up a top 5 pick or 20-10 big men to get melo...so it all evens itself out.

You really believe the Knicks are hated...nobody hates on a perennial loser.

mreinman wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:If we keep Melo, I want to see a deal for Josh Smith and Greg Monroe. A frontcourt with those 3 and Amare as our 6th man would be pretty good in the triangle. Hopefully we could get a deal for OJ Mayo as well to be our point.

Stop with the Josh Smith stuff. He is everything that you don't want in a player.

There are always players who "is everything you don't want in a player" that conveniently shed that title when they get better teammates. People seem to forget that he was a perennial all-star candidate.

all star means nothing. fans are idiots and have no idea what constitutes a good player.

He was getting consideration from the coaches, not the fans. And yes, fans are idiots. They are the same people that characterize a Monta Ellis as being a "cancer", then praise him for "turning the corner" (with the Mavs) despite making no discernible changes to his game, aside from playing with better teammates. Josh Smith is basically the same caliber of player and can have that impact if put in the right circumstances.

Papabear wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Papabear wrote:

knickscity wrote:What help did Ainge actually get? They gave up Al Jefferson in one deal and a top 5 draft pick in another to acquire those guys.

Those players werent gifted to Boston, they traded things the Knicks dont have.

I do find this thread amusing...the Knicks have one of the greatest basketball minds in the organization now, and there are doubts of what he could do.

But this garbage roster was defended to sheer eternity.

Papabear Says

So what you are telling me that if we were able to make the same offer we could have gotten Garnett and Ray Allen. That is BS!!!

Business is business. I doubt that any team would pass on an opportunity to improve themselves, to spite the city of New York. Its hard to even argue the counterpoint because we've had so little talent to bargain with in trades. Who would want to clamor for the opportunity to trade for 2009 Eddy Curry? Jerome James? Etc.

Papabear Says

Thats BS we gave away Ariza, Zach Randolph, Crawford, for little or nothing in order to make cap space and we was winning with Zach and Crawford. Ahh thats right we was so sure to get LeBron.

We got Al Harrington (our leading scorer for a season) for Jamal Crawford so I think that deal was a wash. As far as the other guys, we moved them when their value was at an all-time low. So, what would you expect?

knickscity wrote:

Papabear wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Papabear wrote:

knickscity wrote:What help did Ainge actually get? They gave up Al Jefferson in one deal and a top 5 draft pick in another to acquire those guys.

Those players werent gifted to Boston, they traded things the Knicks dont have.

I do find this thread amusing...the Knicks have one of the greatest basketball minds in the organization now, and there are doubts of what he could do.

But this garbage roster was defended to sheer eternity.

Papabear Says

So what you are telling me that if we were able to make the same offer we could have gotten Garnett and Ray Allen. That is BS!!!

No we couldnt, because we dont have a big man capable of 20-10 or a top 5 pick in the draft coming up....like Boston did.

What I am telling you is Boston gave up quality to get those guys.

Papabear Says

MAN LISTEN TO WHAT I AM SAYING!!! if we were able to make the same offer (same players) could have gotten Garnett and Ray Allen. That is BS!!!

I dont recall the Knicks giving up a top 5 pick or 20-10 big men to get melo...so it all evens itself out.

You really believe the Knicks are hated...nobody hates on a perennial loser.

Papabear Says

You are avoiding answering my question so I am finished debating you. You know exactly what I mean. Danny Ainge got Garnett because he was in tight with the GM. If We had the same players that Boston had to make a deal to get Garnett we would have gotten turned down. I can't explain it any better so stop avoiding my question. I will not speak on it again. by

Papabear wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Papabear wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Papabear wrote:

knickscity wrote:What help did Ainge actually get? They gave up Al Jefferson in one deal and a top 5 draft pick in another to acquire those guys.

Those players werent gifted to Boston, they traded things the Knicks dont have.

I do find this thread amusing...the Knicks have one of the greatest basketball minds in the organization now, and there are doubts of what he could do.

But this garbage roster was defended to sheer eternity.

Papabear Says

So what you are telling me that if we were able to make the same offer we could have gotten Garnett and Ray Allen. That is BS!!!

No we couldnt, because we dont have a big man capable of 20-10 or a top 5 pick in the draft coming up....like Boston did.

What I am telling you is Boston gave up quality to get those guys.

Papabear Says

MAN LISTEN TO WHAT I AM SAYING!!! if we were able to make the same offer (same players) could have gotten Garnett and Ray Allen. That is BS!!!

I dont recall the Knicks giving up a top 5 pick or 20-10 big men to get melo...so it all evens itself out.

You really believe the Knicks are hated...nobody hates on a perennial loser.

Papabear Says

You are avoiding answering my question so I am finished debating you. You know exactly what I mean. Danny Ainge got Garnett because he was in tight with the GM. If We had the same players that Boston had to make a deal to get Garnett we would have gotten turned down. I can't explain it any better so stop avoiding my question. I will not speak on it again. by

So if Danny Ainge was our GM and we had the same players the Celtics had, you don't think we could've gotten Garnett?

NardDogNation wrote:

Papabear wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Papabear wrote:

knickscity wrote:What help did Ainge actually get? They gave up Al Jefferson in one deal and a top 5 draft pick in another to acquire those guys.

Those players werent gifted to Boston, they traded things the Knicks dont have.

I do find this thread amusing...the Knicks have one of the greatest basketball minds in the organization now, and there are doubts of what he could do.

But this garbage roster was defended to sheer eternity.

Papabear Says

So what you are telling me that if we were able to make the same offer we could have gotten Garnett and Ray Allen. That is BS!!!

Business is business. I doubt that any team would pass on an opportunity to improve themselves, to spite the city of New York. Its hard to even argue the counterpoint because we've had so little talent to bargain with in trades. Who would want to clamor for the opportunity to trade for 2009 Eddy Curry? Jerome James? Etc.

Papabear Says

Thats BS we gave away Ariza, Zach Randolph, Crawford, for little or nothing in order to make cap space and we was winning with Zach and Crawford. Ahh thats right we was so sure to get LeBron.

We got Al Harrington (our leading scorer for a season) for Jamal Crawford so I think that deal was a wash. As far as the other guys, we moved them when their value was at an all-time low. So, what would you expect?

Papabear Says

Al Harrington?? Where is he now. And where is Zach and where is Crawford? No We gave them away.

Papabear wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Papabear wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Papabear wrote:

knickscity wrote:What help did Ainge actually get? They gave up Al Jefferson in one deal and a top 5 draft pick in another to acquire those guys.

Those players werent gifted to Boston, they traded things the Knicks dont have.

I do find this thread amusing...the Knicks have one of the greatest basketball minds in the organization now, and there are doubts of what he could do.

But this garbage roster was defended to sheer eternity.

Papabear Says

So what you are telling me that if we were able to make the same offer we could have gotten Garnett and Ray Allen. That is BS!!!

No we couldnt, because we dont have a big man capable of 20-10 or a top 5 pick in the draft coming up....like Boston did.

What I am telling you is Boston gave up quality to get those guys.

Papabear Says

MAN LISTEN TO WHAT I AM SAYING!!! if we were able to make the same offer (same players) could have gotten Garnett and Ray Allen. That is BS!!!

I dont recall the Knicks giving up a top 5 pick or 20-10 big men to get melo...so it all evens itself out.

You really believe the Knicks are hated...nobody hates on a perennial loser.

Papabear Says

You are avoiding answering my question so I am finished debating you. You know exactly what I mean. Danny Ainge got Garnett because he was in tight with the GM. If We had the same players that Boston had to make a deal to get Garnett we would have gotten turned down. I can't explain it any better so stop avoiding my question. I will not speak on it again. by

Boston didnt get KG and Ray via a fleecing like the Lakers did getting Pau headlined by Kwame Brown.

Boston gave up good piece to get their players.

And the point I made closes the door on this nonsense....we gave up average players and got a perennial allstar....didnt we?

NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:If we keep Melo, I want to see a deal for Josh Smith and Greg Monroe. A frontcourt with those 3 and Amare as our 6th man would be pretty good in the triangle. Hopefully we could get a deal for OJ Mayo as well to be our point.

Stop with the Josh Smith stuff. He is everything that you don't want in a player.

There are always players who "is everything you don't want in a player" that conveniently shed that title when they get better teammates. People seem to forget that he was a perennial all-star candidate.

all star means nothing. fans are idiots and have no idea what constitutes a good player.

He was getting consideration from the coaches, not the fans. And yes, fans are idiots. They are the same people that characterize a Monta Ellis as being a "cancer", then praise him for "turning the corner" (with the Mavs) despite making no discernible changes to his game, aside from playing with better teammates. Josh Smith is basically the same caliber of player and can have that impact if put in the right circumstances.

Your comment about Monta Ellis sums up your misjudgment of play. And, Ellis is still no great shakes but Carlisle is concentrating more on what he does well and Ellis is buying in more.

Smith has the dumbest shot selection in the league which makes him an awful waste of talent.

NardDogNation wrote:

Papabear wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Papabear wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Papabear wrote:

knickscity wrote:What help did Ainge actually get? They gave up Al Jefferson in one deal and a top 5 draft pick in another to acquire those guys.

Those players werent gifted to Boston, they traded things the Knicks dont have.

I do find this thread amusing...the Knicks have one of the greatest basketball minds in the organization now, and there are doubts of what he could do.

But this garbage roster was defended to sheer eternity.

Papabear Says

So what you are telling me that if we were able to make the same offer we could have gotten Garnett and Ray Allen. That is BS!!!

No we couldnt, because we dont have a big man capable of 20-10 or a top 5 pick in the draft coming up....like Boston did.

What I am telling you is Boston gave up quality to get those guys.

Papabear Says

MAN LISTEN TO WHAT I AM SAYING!!! if we were able to make the same offer (same players) could have gotten Garnett and Ray Allen. That is BS!!!

I dont recall the Knicks giving up a top 5 pick or 20-10 big men to get melo...so it all evens itself out.

You really believe the Knicks are hated...nobody hates on a perennial loser.

Papabear Says

You are avoiding answering my question so I am finished debating you. You know exactly what I mean. Danny Ainge got Garnett because he was in tight with the GM. If We had the same players that Boston had to make a deal to get Garnett we would have gotten turned down. I can't explain it any better so stop avoiding my question. I will not speak on it again. by

So if Danny Ainge was our GM and we had the same players the Celtics had, you don't think we could've gotten Garnett?

Papabear Says

So you see what I am saying. Ainge would never become a Knicks GM too much hate. Thats why Ainge was able to get Garnett from his buddy in Minny. Get Real.

Papabear wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Papabear wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Papabear wrote:

knickscity wrote:What help did Ainge actually get? They gave up Al Jefferson in one deal and a top 5 draft pick in another to acquire those guys.

Those players werent gifted to Boston, they traded things the Knicks dont have.

I do find this thread amusing...the Knicks have one of the greatest basketball minds in the organization now, and there are doubts of what he could do.

But this garbage roster was defended to sheer eternity.

Papabear Says

So what you are telling me that if we were able to make the same offer we could have gotten Garnett and Ray Allen. That is BS!!!

Business is business. I doubt that any team would pass on an opportunity to improve themselves, to spite the city of New York. Its hard to even argue the counterpoint because we've had so little talent to bargain with in trades. Who would want to clamor for the opportunity to trade for 2009 Eddy Curry? Jerome James? Etc.

Papabear Says

Thats BS we gave away Ariza, Zach Randolph, Crawford, for little or nothing in order to make cap space and we was winning with Zach and Crawford. Ahh thats right we was so sure to get LeBron.

We got Al Harrington (our leading scorer for a season) for Jamal Crawford so I think that deal was a wash. As far as the other guys, we moved them when their value was at an all-time low. So, what would you expect?

Papabear Says

Al Harrington?? Where is he now. And where is Zach and where is Crawford? No We gave them away.

You're talking about the trade, 6 years after the fact, which makes no sense. At the time and for the immediate future, the deal was reasonable for both teams. Through your line of reasoning, the Celtics also made a bad move trading for Garnett because 7 years after the fact, he is no longer with the team and a fringe starter while Jefferson is still a 20-10 big. That type of thinking is clearly flawed.