Knicks · Steve Kerr, really? (page 4)

nyk4ever wrote:

holfresh wrote:No one here has any idea what kind of coach Steve Kerr will be..I have no clue what entity Steve Kerr is...My problem is that Phil Jackson has no clue what kind of coach Steve Kerr will be and it doesn't give him pause in appointing to the job..He is supposed to get the best possible candidate, instead he is appointing his friend..

with phil's resume and the amount of years he coached, don't you think he'd be able to atleast have an idea of who would make a good coach or not? i mean if i'm going to let anyone look for potential coaches, the first guy im looking at is philjax.

I absolutely think Phil can pick that guy..But my question is this..Is Phil here to exonerate the triangle as a system in the NBA or is he here to bring winning basketball to New York??

The prime responsibility of Phil as roster builder is more important than his role as the triangle strategy police.

Uptown wrote:

holfresh wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

holfresh wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

holfresh wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

holfresh wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

holfresh wrote:When in life has Steve Kerr ever stuck you as a leader of men??..Every interview I have heard with Steve Kerr about the great players he played with, he was always awe struck by their motivation and drive..And if it you think experience isn't important, why is it instrumental for Phil to have knowledgable(experienced) assistants around him??

When in life has Jeff Hornacek struck you as a leader of men? It didn't stop him from turning a hopeless situation into a playoff contender. When in life has Lawrence Frank struck you as a leader of men? Dude is like 5"8', never really played professional basketball and yet has become a fixture in the league in coaching circles. The fact is that talent is talent and if the greatest coach of all-time vouches for a guy, I'll believe in him as well.

Well if I remember correctly, Hornecek and Matt Harding were tough players...Hornecek is tough in Philly when he played with Hershy Hawkins...Hornecek took it to you and played hard and tough for Utah..Hornecek paid his dues as an assistant as well...Lawrence Frank isn't a leader of men, he sucked as a coach but he did pay his dues as an assistant and showed his diligence in hard work... He got his job because of Jason Kidd's insistence with the Nets after a feud with Byron Scott...He sucked and it didn't translate but he was given a shot based on aptitude for the game..I have no idea how Frank got the Detroit job...Obviously off Doc Rivers success..What are u basing your assessment of Steve Kerr on??

Hornecek was a jump shooter that was a bit of a sieve defensively. As far as "leader of men", Hornacek has as much charisma as drying paint. It doesn't change the fact that he has made himself into a good tactician and has figured out a way to mitigate his own flaws, through his assistants.

I also find it interesting that you think Doc Rivers is a good coach, while forgetting that he got his coaching gig under the same circumstances that Kerr would. Rivers went straight from the broadcasting booth with ZERO coaching experience or championship experience. So why all of your animosity toward Kerr? What are YOU basing YOUR assessment of Kerr off of?

I asked u that question first...

The fact that he has a championship pedigree. The fact that he played in Phil's system for 3 seasons. The fact that former guard's who were role players, have had an overwhelming amount of success as coaches. The fact that there is precedent for men becoming head coach with zero coaching experience and excelling (see Doc Rivers, Jason Kidd and Mark Jackson). The fact that Kerr seems really bright, especially in his discussion of how to contain the pick and roll in Open Court yesterday. The fact that Kerr seems to have a great deal of poise and a temperament that is conducive to winning.

P.S., I thought you started this thread, which is why my posts may have seemed to be a bit prickly. I apologize for that and meant no harm either way.

None taken, we are all here to talk about the team we root for...I don't get hung up on that stuff, I like passion even from dk7, though misguided...

That said, Doc sucked in Orlando and Tracy McGrady let the world know about it, I don't want to be Orlando....Jason Kidd has proved nothing, Woodson won 54 game last year, what did that prove??...Mark Jackson is a motivational speaker...He isn't about X's and O's guy... Motivation has a short shelf life...

I have nothing against Kerr..Absolutely nothing...I'm just not convinced he is the best possible candidate...To me, Phil looks like he is working on his legacy...During his press conference when he was being introduced, he said his system was "much maligned" in the NBA...I really don't care about Phil Jackson's legacy, I care about the Knicks winning...If they turn into mutual goals then I'm all for it...Right now, not hiring the best guy for the job doesn't excite me...

Not excited about Kerr myself but really who is the best guy that is actually available?

I'm not sure to be honest..I'm jsut not a big believer in system basketball..I believe in head coaches, the individual...The triangle hasn't worked since Phil's left coaching...

I agree that its a players league, however, it's more than just a system on the court, its the system that is established throughout the organization that breeds winning. Just having everyone on the same page, from Coaches, to GM, to President, to Owner to Scouts, etc....That's how organizations win big in the league. Kerr and Phil's guys in the organization mean no one has an agenda, which is what has ruined us for decades.....Brown vs Isiah, Dolan vs Walsh, Van Gundy vs Grunfeld, etc....

Yes I realize Kerr has no coaching experience but in general, many good/great coaches were once only ROLE players without must physical talent/abilities
They were able to play in the NBA because of their brains, work ethic, high character, and impact their teams with their coaches philosophy and systems

However, that is where the need of quality assistant coaches is needed and even some veterans leadership (a reason why I think we signed Odom and kept Shannon Brown because they are familiar with the triangle)
It is however, possible that Odom was just signed to be traded to a team as we use the 3m+ that we didn't use last year to purchase a pick or maybe 2 (2nd rounders) if we are lucky

With that said, Kerr does have a high BB IQ in addition to being coached by arguably the top 5 Coaches of the NBA from the early 90's to mid 2000 in both
Phil Jackson and Poppavich, and also oversee Dantoni's philosophy in Phoenix as the GM (some other coaches in that era include Larry Brown, Jerry Sloan (never had much talent but they were always a top team), Pat Riley, with many runner ups after

Some other quality ex players, assistant coaches, development coaches, scouts, and GM, I think will be torn up and rebuilt with the vision of Phil Jackson
Not necessarily to run just the Triangle but I do expect it to be run eventually it, though it may not be just the triangle like Phil did
While adapting to some other philosophies like Dantoni's PnR and spread offense, in addition to some of Poppavich play book, keeping some of Woodson's playbook (not the ISO thogh), and running plays that utilize the our teams skills/talents/mismatches

In my opinion, Phil will look to players and prior personnel, making big changes from management/front office in addition to the roster (though the roster might need to wait till 2015-16 and 2016-17

Ron Harper *to help develop a BIG PG* He played in both The Bulls and The Lakers, so he would be a great asset
Horace Grant
Fred Hoiberg
Robert Horry
Bill Cartright

current players or/and some other personnel that currently have jobs on other teams
Derek Fisher
Brian Shaw *he was a top assistant while on The Pacer's that played a big part in the development of the Pacer's today
Scotty Pippn/Tony Kukoc
Other students of the game that have been mentored by either Phil Jackson or Poppavich

holfresh wrote:No one here has any idea what kind of coach Steve Kerr will be..I have no clue what entity Steve Kerr is...My problem is that Phil Jackson has no clue what kind of coach Steve Kerr will be and it doesn't give him pause in appointing to the job..He is supposed to get the best possible candidate, instead he is appointing his friend..

If u think Phil is just naming Kerr as coach only because they are friends then u r crazy. Don't u have any more confidence, respect for Phil that he is doing this because he believes it is the right move. I have 100% faith in Phil and he knows a heck of a lot more than any of us about basketball and about the type of person Kerr is ( and the type of coach he believes he can be)

BigRedDog wrote:

holfresh wrote:No one here has any idea what kind of coach Steve Kerr will be..I have no clue what entity Steve Kerr is...My problem is that Phil Jackson has no clue what kind of coach Steve Kerr will be and it doesn't give him pause in appointing to the job..He is supposed to get the best possible candidate, instead he is appointing his friend..

If u think Phil is just naming Kerr as coach only because they are friends then u r crazy. Don't u have any more confidence, respect for Phil that he is doing this because he believes it is the right move. I have 100% faith in Phil and he knows a heck of a lot more than any of us about basketball and about the type of person Kerr is ( and the type of coach he believes he can be)

Phil's deciples don't have a good NBA track record...Kerr has never been a coach, never been an assistant, not on anyone's coaching radar, hasn't applied for any other job until Phil got this gig...Now we are looking to give him the toughest job in the NBA ...Didn't he also fail as a GM...How these guys continue to get these opportunities amazes me...

I stepped away from the punch bowl when we signed a guy who was smoking crack a year ago...

Phil said Mj made a mistake with the bobcats in just hiring people who agreed with him- hope he's not making the same mistake.

Uptown made a great case for Kerr having good instincts as an exec. Wouldn't be a rookie GM. Next season is about building a foundation on and off the court for a contender. Hope I'm right about how this will play out.

smackeddog wrote:I think Kerr will be an awful coach- he just doesn't seem to have charisma, leadership, intelligence or experience. I've never liked him in any of his roles.

Phil said Mj made a mistake with the bobcats in just hiring people who agreed with him- hope he's not making the same mistake.

He had enough intelligence and foresight to give MDA an ultimatum (hire a defensive coach or get fired) while everyone else was holding MDA up on a pedestal. What are you basing your assessment of Kerr on?

Uptown wrote:

smackeddog wrote:I think Kerr will be an awful coach- he just doesn't seem to have charisma, leadership, intelligence or experience. I've never liked him in any of his roles.

Phil said Mj made a mistake with the bobcats in just hiring people who agreed with him- hope he's not making the same mistake.

He had enough intelligence and foresight to give MDA an ultimatum (hire a defensive coach or get fired) while everyone else was holding MDA up on a pedestal. What are you basing your assessment of Kerr on?

Is that really groundbreaking stuff though??..To understand you aren't winning rings without defense??

holfresh wrote:

Uptown wrote:

smackeddog wrote:I think Kerr will be an awful coach- he just doesn't seem to have charisma, leadership, intelligence or experience. I've never liked him in any of his roles.

Phil said Mj made a mistake with the bobcats in just hiring people who agreed with him- hope he's not making the same mistake.

He had enough intelligence and foresight to give MDA an ultimatum (hire a defensive coach or get fired) while everyone else was holding MDA up on a pedestal. What are you basing your assessment of Kerr on?

Is that really groundbreaking stuff though??..To understand you aren't winning rings without defense??

Groundbreaking? No! But the fact that he made an actual BB decision from the seat of a GM gives him more merit and a better resume than MJax when he was hired.....Not to mention the 5 rings....

Uptown wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Uptown wrote:

smackeddog wrote:I think Kerr will be an awful coach- he just doesn't seem to have charisma, leadership, intelligence or experience. I've never liked him in any of his roles.

Phil said Mj made a mistake with the bobcats in just hiring people who agreed with him- hope he's not making the same mistake.

He had enough intelligence and foresight to give MDA an ultimatum (hire a defensive coach or get fired) while everyone else was holding MDA up on a pedestal. What are you basing your assessment of Kerr on?

Is that really groundbreaking stuff though??..To understand you aren't winning rings without defense??

Groundbreaking? No! But the fact that he made an actual BB decision from the seat of a GM gives him more merit and a better resume than MJax when he was hired.....Not to mention the 5 rings....

I think most agree that Mark Jackson was destined for coaching...Kerr coaching is a surprise to most...

I think Jordan and Duncan are wining those rings Kerr or no Kerr..

holfresh wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

holfresh wrote:No one here has any idea what kind of coach Steve Kerr will be..I have no clue what entity Steve Kerr is...My problem is that Phil Jackson has no clue what kind of coach Steve Kerr will be and it doesn't give him pause in appointing to the job..He is supposed to get the best possible candidate, instead he is appointing his friend..

with phil's resume and the amount of years he coached, don't you think he'd be able to atleast have an idea of who would make a good coach or not? i mean if i'm going to let anyone look for potential coaches, the first guy im looking at is philjax.

I absolutely think Phil can pick that guy..But my question is this..Is Phil here to exonerate the triangle as a system in the NBA or is he here to bring winning basketball to New York??

that is a false dichotomy

misterearl wrote:holfresh - to your point(s), Phil Jackson's talent was not his system, it was Michael Jordan improvisation of impossible shots and Kobe and Shaq on speaking terms.

The prime responsibility of Phil as roster builder is more important than his role as the triangle strategy police.

How about the year that Phil almost won it all without Jordan? Speaks volumes for his "system"