Knicks · Coon predicting salary cap to go up 5 million (page 2)

markvmc wrote:A bit early to be predicting, seeing as none of us know what the squad will be like next year. But without significant personnel changes, I think we're a lottery team again.

True, you're right but I just would find it hard to believe that the knicks could have the worst back court in the league offensively and defensively two years in a row.

I'm looking at changing the culture to a winning one. I'm not concerned about making the playoffs next year. We most likely will but I want to build sustainable winner. No quick fixes. I think Phil and Kerr could establish that if fans are patient. I'm looking aiming to be like th spurs okc and Miami. Everyone else is in ilthe mix but not really. I'm willing to give Phil the full 5yrs. No shortcuts

gunsnewing wrote:I'm looking at changing the culture to a winning one. I'm not concerned about making the playoffs next year. We most likely will but I want to build sustainable winner. No quick fixes. I think Phil and Kerr could establish that if fans are patient. I'm looking aiming to be like th spurs okc and Miami. Everyone else is in ilthe mix but not really. I'm willing to give Phil the full 5yrs. No shortcuts

You can change the culture and still be a playoff contender. I think next year will be the turn around mentally that gets the team competing and the following season is when they add the pieces to the puzzle to get them in championship contention. I think short term and long term flexibility can still be maintained.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Papabear wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Dude WTF! Why could shit like this not have happened when we had cap space in 2010 for LeBron or in 2011 when we needed role players.

Papabear Says

Because the league is structured to play against the Knicks. If it was structured like Major league baseball we probably would have won a championship by now.

It's a business. If the NBA thinks it's in their interests to have just a few wealthy competitive teams, they'll do that. But they have no reason to think that.

They are getting it half right. They continue to sugar coat in the media the fact that players aren't taking pay cuts and going to tax free states. They need to tax adjust the cap to make it a better system.

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Papabear wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Dude WTF! Why could shit like this not have happened when we had cap space in 2010 for LeBron or in 2011 when we needed role players.

Papabear Says

Because the league is structured to play against the Knicks. If it was structured like Major league baseball we probably would have won a championship by now.

It's a business. If the NBA thinks it's in their interests to have just a few wealthy competitive teams, they'll do that. But they have no reason to think that.

They are getting it half right. They continue to sugar coat in the media the fact that players aren't taking pay cuts and going to tax free states. They need to tax adjust the cap to make it a better system.

Eh that's just a complaint Knicks' fans make. You pay higher taxes but get the advantages of living in NYC. It's a good enough trade off for 8+ million Americans.

Yea players don't care about a few 100k's See JR. Racked up more in fines this year alone

Bonn1997 wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Papabear wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Dude WTF! Why could shit like this not have happened when we had cap space in 2010 for LeBron or in 2011 when we needed role players.

Papabear Says

Because the league is structured to play against the Knicks. If it was structured like Major league baseball we probably would have won a championship by now.

It's a business. If the NBA thinks it's in their interests to have just a few wealthy competitive teams, they'll do that. But they have no reason to think that.

They are getting it half right. They continue to sugar coat in the media the fact that players aren't taking pay cuts and going to tax free states. They need to tax adjust the cap to make it a better system.

Eh that's just a complaint Knicks' fans make. You pay higher taxes but get the advantages of living in NYC. It's a good enough trade off for 8+ million Americans.

Nothing like the advantage of waking up to smell of piss on way to work

gunsnewing wrote:Yea players don't care about a few 100k's See JR. Racked up more in fines this year alone

You could also say it's the city's and state's responsibility to make sure the tax/benefits tradeoff is appealing.

Yup

IronWillGiroud wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Papabear wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Dude WTF! Why could shit like this not have happened when we had cap space in 2010 for LeBron or in 2011 when we needed role players.

Papabear Says

Because the league is structured to play against the Knicks. If it was structured like Major league baseball we probably would have won a championship by now.

It's a business. If the NBA thinks it's in their interests to have just a few wealthy competitive teams, they'll do that. But they have no reason to think that.

They are getting it half right. They continue to sugar coat in the media the fact that players aren't taking pay cuts and going to tax free states. They need to tax adjust the cap to make it a better system.

Eh that's just a complaint Knicks' fans make. You pay higher taxes but get the advantages of living in NYC. It's a good enough trade off for 8+ million Americans.

Nothing like the advantage of waking up to smell of piss on way to work

yup... and being paid double for the same job in cities like Cha, Atl or Chi

fishmike wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Papabear wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Dude WTF! Why could shit like this not have happened when we had cap space in 2010 for LeBron or in 2011 when we needed role players.

Papabear Says

Because the league is structured to play against the Knicks. If it was structured like Major league baseball we probably would have won a championship by now.

It's a business. If the NBA thinks it's in their interests to have just a few wealthy competitive teams, they'll do that. But they have no reason to think that.

They are getting it half right. They continue to sugar coat in the media the fact that players aren't taking pay cuts and going to tax free states. They need to tax adjust the cap to make it a better system.

Eh that's just a complaint Knicks' fans make. You pay higher taxes but get the advantages of living in NYC. It's a good enough trade off for 8+ million Americans.

Nothing like the advantage of waking up to smell of piss on way to work

yup... and being paid double for the same job in cities like Cha, Atl or Chi

First things first. Knicks fan compliant...Not true. Howard was able to walk away with basically a net out, so it is not just a NY issue. In regards to the advantages of living in NY. This is true if you work in corporate America due to the number of jobs in the NYM area. In a capped league where all is equal it is a disadvantage since you have no benefit from the local job market. The comment about getting paid double than Cha, Atl, or Chi is completely false. The gap between Chi and NY is not substantial, so I'll go with Charlotte for your example. The main reason for the pay gap is cost of living renting/buying a place in Cha vs NY is night and day. You can get the same or more in Cha at around half the costs. Companies realize that and pay accordingly.

I am purely talking about net numbers with tax so teams like LA, Chi, NY would get an adjustment on cap. it makes logical sense to do so. Professional athlete vs regular job isn't even close to the same so you can't really have them factor in cost of living. It is nieve to assume that players agents aren't making them aware of the benefits, since the companies the people advising them work for pay based on tax and cost of living for like 99.9% of all employees.

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Papabear wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Dude WTF! Why could shit like this not have happened when we had cap space in 2010 for LeBron or in 2011 when we needed role players.

Papabear Says

Because the league is structured to play against the Knicks. If it was structured like Major league baseball we probably would have won a championship by now.

It's a business. If the NBA thinks it's in their interests to have just a few wealthy competitive teams, they'll do that. But they have no reason to think that.

They are getting it half right. They continue to sugar coat in the media the fact that players aren't taking pay cuts and going to tax free states. They need to tax adjust the cap to make it a better system.

Eh that's just a complaint Knicks' fans make. You pay higher taxes but get the advantages of living in NYC. It's a good enough trade off for 8+ million Americans.

Nothing like the advantage of waking up to smell of piss on way to work

yup... and being paid double for the same job in cities like Cha, Atl or Chi

First things first. Knicks fan compliant...Not true. Howard was able to walk away with basically a net out, so it is not just a NY issue. In regards to the advantages of living in NY. This is true if you work in corporate America due to the number of jobs in the NYM area. In a capped league where all is equal it is a disadvantage since you have no benefit from the local job market. The comment about getting paid double than Cha, Atl, or Chi is completely false. The gap between Chi and NY is not substantial, so I'll go with Charlotte for your example. The main reason for the pay gap is cost of living renting/buying a place in Cha vs NY is night and day. You can get the same or more in Cha at around half the costs. Companies realize that and pay accordingly.

I am purely talking about net numbers with tax so teams like LA, Chi, NY would get an adjustment on cap. it makes logical sense to do so. Professional athlete vs regular job isn't even close to the same so you can't really have them factor in cost of living. It is nieve to assume that players agents aren't making them aware of the benefits, since the companies the people advising them work for pay based on tax and cost of living for like 99.9% of all employees.

There are all sorts of advantages to living in NYC - great museums, parks, restaurants, etc. - that wouldn't be matched living elsewhere. If that's not good enough to outweigh the taxes, then NYC isn't doing its job.

Bonn1997 wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Papabear wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Dude WTF! Why could shit like this not have happened when we had cap space in 2010 for LeBron or in 2011 when we needed role players.

Papabear Says

Because the league is structured to play against the Knicks. If it was structured like Major league baseball we probably would have won a championship by now.

It's a business. If the NBA thinks it's in their interests to have just a few wealthy competitive teams, they'll do that. But they have no reason to think that.

They are getting it half right. They continue to sugar coat in the media the fact that players aren't taking pay cuts and going to tax free states. They need to tax adjust the cap to make it a better system.

Eh that's just a complaint Knicks' fans make. You pay higher taxes but get the advantages of living in NYC. It's a good enough trade off for 8+ million Americans.

Nothing like the advantage of waking up to smell of piss on way to work

yup... and being paid double for the same job in cities like Cha, Atl or Chi

First things first. Knicks fan compliant...Not true. Howard was able to walk away with basically a net out, so it is not just a NY issue. In regards to the advantages of living in NY. This is true if you work in corporate America due to the number of jobs in the NYM area. In a capped league where all is equal it is a disadvantage since you have no benefit from the local job market. The comment about getting paid double than Cha, Atl, or Chi is completely false. The gap between Chi and NY is not substantial, so I'll go with Charlotte for your example. The main reason for the pay gap is cost of living renting/buying a place in Cha vs NY is night and day. You can get the same or more in Cha at around half the costs. Companies realize that and pay accordingly.

I am purely talking about net numbers with tax so teams like LA, Chi, NY would get an adjustment on cap. it makes logical sense to do so. Professional athlete vs regular job isn't even close to the same so you can't really have them factor in cost of living. It is nieve to assume that players agents aren't making them aware of the benefits, since the companies the people advising them work for pay based on tax and cost of living for like 99.9% of all employees.

There are all sorts of advantages to living in NYC - great museums, parks, restaurants, etc. - that wouldn't be matched living elsewhere. If that's not good enough to outweigh the taxes, then NYC isn't doing its job.

That's a fair point. I'm just saying that it is kind of absurd to disregard it when players continue to sign in tax free states for "less." Proof is in the pudding there. These guys make millions so they can vacation here and still be ahead of the game. People frequently post about players coming here for less, but I am pointing out that in signing here they are already doing so. It's unrealistic to ask somebody to take around a 25% pay cut to come here vs somewhere else.

I can see making a point for excessive property tax in the metropolitan area but it's still NYC. Common man choose to live in NYC and the areas directly surround it because they want to be in the middle of everything. We are talking about NBA players here. Multi millionaires. If players did not want I come here it's because they knew Dolan was an idiot. With Phil here that will change. You always have the option of renting in the city and building a mansion down south where you can live in the offseason if you are single. Plenty of options if you have a family too in white plains, hamptons and jersey suburbs

gunsnewing wrote:I can see making a point for excessive property tax in the metropolitan area but it's still NYC. Common man choose to live in NYC and the areas directly surround it because they want to be in the middle of everything. We are talking about NBA players here. Multi millionaires. If players did not want I come here it's because they knew Dolan was an idiot. With Phil here that will change. You always have the option of renting in the city and building a mansion down south where you can live in the offseason if you are single. Plenty of options if you have a family too in white plains, hamptons and jersey suburbs

The fact that the franchise is awful is probably the biggest factor. I am hoping that Phil changes that. As a Knicks fan, all I really ever have is hope. I was referring to income tax, but you are certainly right on the property tax situation but that is a personal choice. I actually think the league may address the issue in the next CBA/Lockout. Not much we can do about it at this point though.

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I can see making a point for excessive property tax in the metropolitan area but it's still NYC. Common man choose to live in NYC and the areas directly surround it because they want to be in the middle of everything. We are talking about NBA players here. Multi millionaires. If players did not want I come here it's because they knew Dolan was an idiot. With Phil here that will change. You always have the option of renting in the city and building a mansion down south where you can live in the offseason if you are single. Plenty of options if you have a family too in white plains, hamptons and jersey suburbs

The fact that the franchise is awful is probably the biggest factor. I am hoping that Phil changes that. As a Knicks fan, all I really ever have is hope. I was referring to income tax, but you are certainly right on the property tax situation but that is a personal choice. I actually think the league may address the issue in the next CBA/Lockout. Not much we can do about it at this point though.

But that's assuming there is an issue. People in small markets will say that the the tax differences *help* level the playing field. You want all the advantages of living in NYC over Charlotte? Fine but you will pay a higher tax.

Bonn1997 wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I can see making a point for excessive property tax in the metropolitan area but it's still NYC. Common man choose to live in NYC and the areas directly surround it because they want to be in the middle of everything. We are talking about NBA players here. Multi millionaires. If players did not want I come here it's because they knew Dolan was an idiot. With Phil here that will change. You always have the option of renting in the city and building a mansion down south where you can live in the offseason if you are single. Plenty of options if you have a family too in white plains, hamptons and jersey suburbs

The fact that the franchise is awful is probably the biggest factor. I am hoping that Phil changes that. As a Knicks fan, all I really ever have is hope. I was referring to income tax, but you are certainly right on the property tax situation but that is a personal choice. I actually think the league may address the issue in the next CBA/Lockout. Not much we can do about it at this point though.

But that's assuming there is an issue. People in small markets will say that the the tax differences *help* level the playing field. You want all the advantages of living in NYC over Charlotte? Fine but you will pay a higher tax.

I think it is an issue because players continue to try and build super teams in income tax free states via free agency, which can't be done without players truly taking less. Nobody has seemed interested in doing that yet.

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I can see making a point for excessive property tax in the metropolitan area but it's still NYC. Common man choose to live in NYC and the areas directly surround it because they want to be in the middle of everything. We are talking about NBA players here. Multi millionaires. If players did not want I come here it's because they knew Dolan was anidiot. With Phil here that will change. You always have the option of renting in the city and building a mansion down south where you can live in the offseason if you are single. Plenty of options if you have a family too in white plains, hamptons and jersey suburbs

The fact that the franchise is awful is probably the biggest factor. I am hoping that Phil changes that. As a Knicks fan, all I really ever have is hope. I was referring to income tax, but you are certainly right on the property tax situation but that is a personal choice. I actually think the league may address the issue in the next CBA/Lockout. Not much we can do about it at this point though.

But that's assuming there is an issue. People in small markets will say that the the tax differences *help* level the playing field. You want all the advantages of living in NYC over Charlotte? Fine but you will pay a higher tax.

I think it is an issue because players continue to try and build super teams in income tax free states via free agency, which can't be done without players truly taking less. Nobody has seemed interested in doing that yet.

You mean Lebron and Bosh?

Bonn1997 wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I can see making a point for excessive property tax in the metropolitan area but it's still NYC. Common man choose to live in NYC and the areas directly surround it because they want to be in the middle of everything. We are talking about NBA players here. Multi millionaires. If players did not want I come here it's because they knew Dolan was anidiot. With Phil here that will change. You always have the option of renting in the city and building a mansion down south where you can live in the offseason if you are single. Plenty of options if you have a family too in white plains, hamptons and jersey suburbs

The fact that the franchise is awful is probably the biggest factor. I am hoping that Phil changes that. As a Knicks fan, all I really ever have is hope. I was referring to income tax, but you are certainly right on the property tax situation but that is a personal choice. I actually think the league may address the issue in the next CBA/Lockout. Not much we can do about it at this point though.

But that's assuming there is an issue. People in small markets will say that the the tax differences *help* level the playing field. You want all the advantages of living in NYC over Charlotte? Fine but you will pay a higher tax.

I think it is an issue because players continue to try and build super teams in income tax free states via free agency, which can't be done without players truly taking less. Nobody has seemed interested in doing that yet.

You mean Lebron and Bosh?

Yes, and Howard would be in that same category. I do think Miami had an advantage in building using MLE and stuff like that because they can effectively pay more.

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I can see making a point for excessive property tax in the metropolitan area but it's still NYC. Common man choose to live in NYC and the areas directly surround it because they want to be in the middle of everything. We are talking about NBA players here. Multi millionaires. If players did not want I come here it's because they knew Dolan was anidiot. With Phil here that will change. You always have the option of renting in the city and building a mansion down south where you can live in the offseason if you are single. Plenty of options if you have a family too in white plains, hamptons and jersey suburbs

The fact that the franchise is awful is probably the biggest factor. I am hoping that Phil changes that. As a Knicks fan, all I really ever have is hope. I was referring to income tax, but you are certainly right on the property tax situation but that is a personal choice. I actually think the league may address the issue in the next CBA/Lockout. Not much we can do about it at this point though.

But that's assuming there is an issue. People in small markets will say that the the tax differences *help* level the playing field. You want all the advantages of living in NYC over Charlotte? Fine but you will pay a higher tax.

I think it is an issue because players continue to try and build super teams in income tax free states via free agency, which can't be done without players truly taking less. Nobody has seemed interested in doing that yet.

You mean Lebron and Bosh?

Yes, and Howard would be in that same category. I do think Miami had an advantage in building using MLE and stuff like that because they can effectively pay more.

I doubt money had anything to do with it for Howard. He left about $30 mil on the table so that he could save $500K or 1 mil a year in taxes? That doesn't make sense. You don't change the whole salary structure because 2 guys chose to play in Miami. There would have to be evidence of a massive league-wide problem.

Exactly this recent notion that it comes down to taxes just because Lebron and friends teamed up is absurd. It's different for everyone as proven by Dwight Howard

Melo had no problems coming here. He actually pushed Denver to trade him here. Albeit he screwed it all up when he said he'd be willing to go to the Nyets to secure his money. Forced Dolans hand and the rest is history.