Knicks · think Phil is rebuilding? Suprised nobody mentioned this comment: (page 3)

gunsnewing wrote:Things panned out pretty well for Riley in the front office

He's been there a LOT longer than 5 years... and through some very lean years also

He instantly put Miami on the map the 2nd he took over. He established a winning culture. Same thing Phil will do here. Sure they Zo, Hardaway, mash weren't talented enough to beat the Knicks let alone the bulls. He came in and made some shrewder moves betting the most out of I drafted guys like Leonard, carter. Guys like majerle, brown etc.

Phil already said he is going to look for guys on other teams benches and overseas who he feels will buy in. I just hope the talent level is upgraded as well otherwise it's gonna be Melo and everyone else again. But Phil knows what he's doing. I'm not worried

gunsnewing wrote:He instantly put Miami on the map the 2nd he took over. He established a winning culture. Same thing Phil will do here. Sure they Zo, Hardaway, mash weren't talented enough to beat the Knicks let alone the bulls. He came in and made some shrewder moves betting the most out of I drafted guys like Leonard, carter. Guys like majerle, brown etc.

Phil already said he is going to look for guys on other teams benches and overseas who he feels will buy in. I just hope the talent level is upgraded as well otherwise it's gonna be Melo and everyone else again. But Phil knows what he's doing. I'm not worried

perception... your certainly right he turned it around, but first 6 years in the playoffs, 4 where first round flame outs and the one good run they had to the conf finals was aided by those insane suspensions from the PJ Brown Charlie Ward fight.

After that a couple years in the lottery until Wade. The one title with Shaq then obviously superfriends and 3 finals and 2 titles.

All Im saying Guns is if Phil brings what Riley brought in his first 5 years folks here will be pretty dissapointed, I can say that much

That's why fans should be patient and wait for a "Wade" to come along followed by a Shaq/Lebron luring. Just proves my point what you need to win it all and build a sustainable winner

gunsnewing wrote:That's why fans should be patient and wait for a "Wade" to come along followed by a Shaq/Lebron luring. Just proves my point what you need to win it all and build a sustainable winner

two years after the finals w/ Shaq they were back in the lottery. That was the year they had pick #2 and took the stoner from Kent State. I mean if you take away the superfriends its not that impressive.

So if we lose year after year its ok because we are being patient and need to draft a star and then hope we are lucky enough to get a guy like Shaq in some kind of fire sale? Because teams are always looking to help the Knicks... Im still not clear on what your proposing. Tank until we get a star at least as good as Wade? Or god forbid Melo?

and Guns.. Wade (like Melo) is a one and done playoff guy at best. Pair him with Shaq? Pretty good. Pair him with Lebron and Bosh? Pretty good. Too much luck and lucky timing.

Riles early heat teams flamed out but they contended. He got Mourning in trade, and they were relevent.
His signing of Juwan Howard and rejection by Stern was a godsend for him. Bad signing!

Riles kept Heat relevant and when he tanked, he tanked big. Beas was a gamble everyone understood. Kid had so much talent!

But, he rebuilt and kept them relevant. He gets big credit for superfriends in my Book.

If jax contends and knick fans can't handle that it will be too bad. Its not easy to win a title.

fishmike wrote:and Guns.. Wade (like Melo) is a one and done playoff guy at best. Pair him with Shaq? Pretty good. Pair him with Lebron and Bosh? Pretty good. Too much luck and lucky timing.

Shaq was pretty awful for Miami in the playoffs. Wade carried that whole team.

Wade >>>>>>> Melo

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:and Guns.. Wade (like Melo) is a one and done playoff guy at best. Pair him with Shaq? Pretty good. Pair him with Lebron and Bosh? Pretty good. Too much luck and lucky timing.

Shaq was pretty awful for Miami in the playoffs. Wade carried that whole team.

Wade >>>>>>> Melo

Wade finished. Shaq carried the weight. Hard to compare Melo and Wade as Wade as played with Shaq, Lebron, Bosh, etc. Melo as played with Billups and Iverson... bit of a drop in running mates there. You could built title teams just with the guys Wade has had as teammates. Not going to even both starting a discussion that ends in more Melo dumping and a TFK/DK circle jerk. There are 45k other threads with that content. Lets see something else.

That Mia team was great. Yea... Wade was the best player and had a great playoff run.. but the rest of the team was NBA cast offs and retreads. The kind of team we might see and guys here are dead against. Pgs were white chocalate and a 50 year old Gary Payton. Antoine Walker was a big contributor. Shaq was still good for 18/10 and shot over 60%. Lot of old guys with playoff experience on that squad. Get ready for Phil to do the same here.

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:and Guns.. Wade (like Melo) is a one and done playoff guy at best. Pair him with Shaq? Pretty good. Pair him with Lebron and Bosh? Pretty good. Too much luck and lucky timing.

Shaq was pretty awful for Miami in the playoffs. Wade carried that whole team.

Wade >>>>>>> Melo

Wade finished. Shaq carried the weight. Hard to compare Melo and Wade as Wade as played with Shaq, Lebron, Bosh, etc. Melo as played with Billups and Iverson... bit of a drop in running mates there. You could built title teams just with the guys Wade has had as teammates. Not going to even both starting a discussion that ends in more Melo dumping and a TFK/DK circle jerk. There are 45k other threads with that content. Lets see something else.

That Mia team was great. Yea... Wade was the best player and had a great playoff run.. but the rest of the team was NBA cast offs and retreads. The kind of team we might see and guys here are dead against. Pgs were white chocalate and a 50 year old Gary Payton. Antoine Walker was a big contributor. Shaq was still good for 18/10 and shot over 60%. Lot of old guys with playoff experience on that squad. Get ready for Phil to do the same here.

Kobe played with Shaq too, and he played with good shaq. Wades numbers are much better than Kobes and he was/is much more efficient. What is amazing is that he did this all with being a horrible 3 point shooter (which is incredible).

While many know he was great, Wade may still be the most underrated player of his time.

Even in wades lottery years he shot over 50%

As a guard that is incredible

He's obviously not the same player now

jrodmc wrote:I guess we shall see. The early returns are hardly overwhelmingly inspiring:

My PJax What To Do To Save The Knicks List:
1) Sign Oh!Damm!
2) Talk to Metta.
3) Fire the Walking Dead Coaching Staff.
4) Ask these loser players what they think (while looking actually interested).
5) Send Steve Kerr a HelloKitty card with pics of Jeannie inside.
6) Look at the floor when asked about Jimmie.
7) Look everyone in the eye when asked about Melo.
8) Make sure everyone knows I'm a better coach than Pop ever was (or could be).

I just don't understand posts like this. The guy has barely been with the team for a month and carries an enormous legacy behind him, and the same people that were waving the homer flags and praising Melo during our first round exits are now on the edges of their seats trying to tear Phil down. So you support the team through the shit times, but then, once things look up, you look for the first opportunity to complain and moan? It's like these people are allergic to a winning culture.

As for your list half of that stuff is just Phil doing his due diligence with absolutely no drawbacks. The other half is nonsensical. As for number 8, he did not criticize Pop in any way and he complimented San Antonio, it was hardly a big jab. When he says they are not exactly a dynasty it's coming from the mouth of a man that has 3-peated 3 separate times with two different teams. Let that sink in, PHIL JACKSON HAS 3-PEATED 3 DIFFERENT TIMES. Do you understand the weight of that fact? I don't care who your players are, that is fantastic. If anyone can talk about dynasties it is Phil. And yet people are unhappy this is the man running the show.... Typical battered Knicks fan syndrome.

Get used to it most his posts are nonsensical

And some who are trying to discredit Phil were big time Isiah supporters. Many are Melo loving extremist. Get used to it

This is what Phil is dealing with over the next 5 years.

Player	            2013/14	 2014/15	2015/16	     2016/17	 2017/10     2018/19
Amare Stoudemire    $21,679,893	 $23,410,988	$0	     $0	         $0	     $0
Carmelo Anthony	    $21,490,000	 $23,530,000	$0	     $0	         $0	     $0
Tyson Chandler	    $14,100,538	 $14,596,888	$0	     $0	         $0	     $0
Andrea Bargnani	    $11,000,000	 $12,000,000	$0	     $0	         $0	     $0
JR Smith	    $5,565,000	 $5,982,375	$6,399,750   $0	         $0	     $0
Raymond Felton	    $4,180,000	 $4,360,000	$4,540,000   $0	         $0	     $0
Iman Shumpert	    $1,797,600	 $2,761,113	$3,898,691   $0	         $0	     $0
Pablo Prigioni	    $1,591,350	 $1,662,961	$1,734,572   $0	         $0	     $0
Metta World Peace   $1,590,000	 $1,661,550	$0	     $0          $0	     $0
Kenyon Martin	    $1,399,507	 $0	        $0	     $0	         $0	     $0
Tim Hardaway Jr	    $1,196,760	 $1,250,640	$1,304,520   $2,281,605	 $3,335,707  $0
Cole Aldrich	    $884,293	 $0	        $0	     $0	         $0          $0
Jeremy Tyler	    $556,584	 $948,163	$0	     $0	         $0	     $0
Toure Murry	    $490,180	 $0	        $0	     $0	         $0	     $0
Shannon Brown	    $341,979	 $0	        $0	     $0	         $0	     $0
Chris Smith	    $184,538	 $0	        $0	     $0	         $0	     $0
Earl Clark	    $111,518	 $0	        $0	     $0	         $0	     $0
Lamar Odom	 	 	 	 	 	 
TOTALS:	            $88,188,494	 $91,216,515	$12,674,322  $0	         $0	     $0

It's clear that he's gonna have a lot of opportunities to have a major impact on the shape of this roster. If he can manage a trade or 2 it's entirely possible he can make some changes even this coming season. IMO Tyson is a likely trade chip. He still has the reputation regardless of if it's deserved or not and C's tend to have long careers so Tyson is still viable.

gunsnewing wrote:Even in wades lottery years he shot over 50%

As a guard that is incredible

He's obviously not the same player now

He was great last year and is still playing great and more efficient as ever this year (55% FG! and 59 TS!), he has just played fewer minutes because of age and injuries.

Comparing him to Kobe, He is a far better offensive player (there is not one (offensive) aspect of the game that Kobe is better at) while Kobe is certainly the better defender.

I like judging his numbers pre-Lebron effect and they are astonishing

gunsnewing wrote:I like judging his numbers pre-Lebron effect and they are astonishing

Playing with Lebron makes you more efficient? i don't know about that ...

mreinman wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Even in wades lottery years he shot over 50%

As a guard that is incredible

He's obviously not the same player now

He was great last year and is still playing great and more efficient as ever this year (55% FG! and 59 TS!), he has just played fewer minutes because of age and injuries.

Comparing him to Kobe, He is a far better offensive player (there is not one (offensive) aspect of the game that Kobe is better at) while Kobe is certainly the better defender.

Wade is undeniably a huge prick however he is also undeniably one of the best guards of the past couple decades.

H1AND1 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Even in wades lottery years he shot over 50%

As a guard that is incredible

He's obviously not the same player now

He was great last year and is still playing great and more efficient as ever this year (55% FG! and 59 TS!), he has just played fewer minutes because of age and injuries.

Comparing him to Kobe, He is a far better offensive player (there is not one (offensive) aspect of the game that Kobe is better at) while Kobe is certainly the better defender.

Wade is undeniably a huge prick however he is also undeniably one of the best guards of the past couple decades.

Maybe the best since Jordan.

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:and Guns.. Wade (like Melo) is a one and done playoff guy at best. Pair him with Shaq? Pretty good. Pair him with Lebron and Bosh? Pretty good. Too much luck and lucky timing.

Shaq was pretty awful for Miami in the playoffs. Wade carried that whole team.

Wade >>>>>>> Melo

Wade finished. Shaq carried the weight. Hard to compare Melo and Wade as Wade as played with Shaq, Lebron, Bosh, etc. Melo as played with Billups and Iverson... bit of a drop in running mates there. You could built title teams just with the guys Wade has had as teammates. Not going to even both starting a discussion that ends in more Melo dumping and a TFK/DK circle jerk. There are 45k other threads with that content. Lets see something else.

That Mia team was great. Yea... Wade was the best player and had a great playoff run.. but the rest of the team was NBA cast offs and retreads. The kind of team we might see and guys here are dead against. Pgs were white chocalate and a 50 year old Gary Payton. Antoine Walker was a big contributor. Shaq was still good for 18/10 and shot over 60%. Lot of old guys with playoff experience on that squad. Get ready for Phil to do the same here.

Kobe played with Shaq too, and he played with good shaq. Wades numbers are much better than Kobes and he was/is much more efficient. What is amazing is that he did this all with being a horrible 3 point shooter (which is incredible).

While many know he was great, Wade may still be the most underrated player of his time.

I dont think he's underrated. He was a beast at Marq. He's been in good situations in the NBA with guys like Shaq, the superfriends etc. He's also delivered. Guy is an incredible talent. He's done everything a HOF player should. And as great as he is he still needs other great players around him to win. When Wade's supporting cast was weak so were the Heat. Best guard since MJ a stretch maybe certainly one of the best. No doubt

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:and Guns.. Wade (like Melo) is a one and done playoff guy at best. Pair him with Shaq? Pretty good. Pair him with Lebron and Bosh? Pretty good. Too much luck and lucky timing.

Shaq was pretty awful for Miami in the playoffs. Wade carried that whole team.

Wade >>>>>>> Melo

Wade finished. Shaq carried the weight. Hard to compare Melo and Wade as Wade as played with Shaq, Lebron, Bosh, etc. Melo as played with Billups and Iverson... bit of a drop in running mates there. You could built title teams just with the guys Wade has had as teammates. Not going to even both starting a discussion that ends in more Melo dumping and a TFK/DK circle jerk. There are 45k other threads with that content. Lets see something else.

That Mia team was great. Yea... Wade was the best player and had a great playoff run.. but the rest of the team was NBA cast offs and retreads. The kind of team we might see and guys here are dead against. Pgs were white chocalate and a 50 year old Gary Payton. Antoine Walker was a big contributor. Shaq was still good for 18/10 and shot over 60%. Lot of old guys with playoff experience on that squad. Get ready for Phil to do the same here.

Kobe played with Shaq too, and he played with good shaq. Wades numbers are much better than Kobes and he was/is much more efficient. What is amazing is that he did this all with being a horrible 3 point shooter (which is incredible).

While many know he was great, Wade may still be the most underrated player of his time.

I dont think he's underrated. He was a beast at Marq. He's been in good situations in the NBA with guys like Shaq, the superfriends etc. He's also delivered. Guy is an incredible talent. He's done everything a HOF player should. And as great as he is he still needs other great players around him to win. When Wade's supporting cast was weak so were the Heat. Best guard since MJ a stretch maybe certainly one of the best. No doubt

Of course very team needs a good team to win. However, his team that won it all pre Lebron was not that good but he was incredible and played one of the best finals I have ever seen. He carried that team on his back.

Who was better than him (or close) post jordan? Maybe Nash?