Bonn1997 wrote:mreinman wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:sidsanders wrote:Silverfuel wrote:People in this thread saying Melo should take less money are basically saying that because they don't like Melo. They will be unhappy with Melo no matter what. The best thing to do is to put these idiots on the ignore list.
didnt he himself say he would take less if it would help make the team better? if he stayed...
Melo doesn't like himself and will be unhappy with himself no matter what!
I can't believe that he confided that with you, Dr Phil.
He didn't. He confided it with Silver. I'm just deducing it from Silver's comments. 
Do you have a link?
mreinman wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:mreinman wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:sidsanders wrote:Silverfuel wrote:People in this thread saying Melo should take less money are basically saying that because they don't like Melo. They will be unhappy with Melo no matter what. The best thing to do is to put these idiots on the ignore list.
didnt he himself say he would take less if it would help make the team better? if he stayed...
Melo doesn't like himself and will be unhappy with himself no matter what!
I can't believe that he confided that with you, Dr Phil.
He didn't. He confided it with Silver. I'm just deducing it from Silver's comments.
Do you have a link?
Bonn is being a troll. I started my post with "people in this thread" so it should be obvious that I am talking about people in this thread and not Melo. The whole point of my post was that these people are not being objective and that humoring them is a waste of time so just ignore.
Just look at some of these posts. There is stuff like , 'we should let Melo walk and draft "young" talent and trade for "young" players.' There is no plan, there is just a wish list. One of the guys in this thread said Melo should take $12 million. It is so unrealistic that its proof these people will be unhappy with Melo no matter what. Luckily Phil seems to have a plan.
Silverfuel wrote:mreinman wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:mreinman wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:sidsanders wrote:Silverfuel wrote:People in this thread saying Melo should take less money are basically saying that because they don't like Melo. They will be unhappy with Melo no matter what. The best thing to do is to put these idiots on the ignore list.
didnt he himself say he would take less if it would help make the team better? if he stayed...
Melo doesn't like himself and will be unhappy with himself no matter what!
I can't believe that he confided that with you, Dr Phil.
He didn't. He confided it with Silver. I'm just deducing it from Silver's comments.
Do you have a link?
Bonn is being a troll. I started my post with "people in this thread" so it should be obvious that I am talking about people in this thread and not Melo. The whole point of my post was that these people are not being objective and that humoring them is a waste of time so just ignore. Just look at some of these posts. There is stuff like , 'we should let Melo walk and draft "young" talent and trade for "young" players.' There is no plan, there is just a wish list. One of the guys in this thread said Melo should take $12 million. It is so unrealistic that its proof these people will be unhappy with Melo no matter what. Luckily Phil seems to have a plan.
What kind of replies do you expect when you attack everyone who disagrees with you? I'm sure you're smart enough to know that kind of message wouldn't invite a serious or respectful discussion.
Silverfuel wrote:mreinman wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:mreinman wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:sidsanders wrote:Silverfuel wrote:People in this thread saying Melo should take less money are basically saying that because they don't like Melo. They will be unhappy with Melo no matter what. The best thing to do is to put these idiots on the ignore list.
didnt he himself say he would take less if it would help make the team better? if he stayed...
Melo doesn't like himself and will be unhappy with himself no matter what!
I can't believe that he confided that with you, Dr Phil.
He didn't. He confided it with Silver. I'm just deducing it from Silver's comments.
Do you have a link?
Bonn is being a troll. I started my post with "people in this thread" so it should be obvious that I am talking about people in this thread and not Melo. The whole point of my post was that these people are not being objective and that humoring them is a waste of time so just ignore. Just look at some of these posts. There is stuff like , 'we should let Melo walk and draft "young" talent and trade for "young" players.' There is no plan, there is just a wish list. One of the guys in this thread said Melo should take $12 million. It is so unrealistic that its proof these people will be unhappy with Melo no matter what. Luckily Phil seems to have a plan.
par for the course in Knick land. What will be really interesting is the direction of the Melo-hate when Phil resigns him. That will be an interesting day. A couple people will be very happy. I think the majority will say 'OK' and at least 3 I can think of will stomp their feet in anger and shake their fists at the sky during thunderstorms cursing god.
My reaction depends on the price Phil re-signs him at. It could be outstanding or a nightmare (though I'm not expecting outstanding). In a league with a salary cap, the price is the most important factor. It's just like a house or a mutual fund could be an outstanding or horrible investment depending on the price.
Bonn1997 wrote:My reaction depends on the price Phil re-signs him at. It could be outstanding or a nightmare (though I'm not expecting outstanding). In a league with a salary cap, the price is the most important factor. It's just like a house or a mutual fund could be an outstanding or horrible investment depending on the price.
not really... if its Phil's plan to resign him and use Amare/Chandler/Bargs expiring contracts to add longer deals of more talented but displaced players then MElo's salary really doesnt matter. The only impact is on the luxury tax Dolan pays.
Now if Phil wants to add another max guy via FA, or a max guy and a close to max guy like the deal Chandler got then yea, MElo's salary will have a big impact on what happens.
If a player is overpaid and aging badly, he is a terrible burden. You can't approach any investment, let alone a $100 million one, as if the price doesn't matter. Knicks' fans certainly should know this by now!
Bonn1997 wrote:If a player is overpaid and aging badly, he is a terrible burden. You can't approach any investment, let alone a $100 million one, as if the price doesn't matter. Knicks' fans certainly should know this by now!
Any player aging badly is a burden. Unless a guy is really young most contracts are a burden by the time they expire, if you let them. You cant really control that beyond limiting minutes and building a deep roster, and even then. Older guys get hurt more.
Its the trade off every team makes no? Pay less up front so you have more flexilibility to get the pieces in place. To me it doesnt matter what Melo makes, so long as we can get the pieces in place.
fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:If a player is overpaid and aging badly, he is a terrible burden. You can't approach any investment, let alone a $100 million one, as if the price doesn't matter. Knicks' fans certainly should know this by now!
Any player aging badly is a burden. Unless a guy is really young most contracts are a burden by the time they expire, if you let them. You cant really control that beyond limiting minutes and building a deep roster, and even then. Older guys get hurt more.Its the trade off every team makes no? Pay less up front so you have more flexilibility to get the pieces in place. To me it doesnt matter what Melo makes, so long as we can get the pieces in place.
Some gambles make more sense than others though. It would be one thing if this was Lebron, Durant, or even a top all-star who was much younger. But $100 mil or more so that Melo can play out his twelfth to sixteenth seasons here? I don't think he's worth $20+ mil per year right now, anyway, though, but I know we'll disagree on that.
Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:If a player is overpaid and aging badly, he is a terrible burden. You can't approach any investment, let alone a $100 million one, as if the price doesn't matter. Knicks' fans certainly should know this by now!
Any player aging badly is a burden. Unless a guy is really young most contracts are a burden by the time they expire, if you let them. You cant really control that beyond limiting minutes and building a deep roster, and even then. Older guys get hurt more.Its the trade off every team makes no? Pay less up front so you have more flexilibility to get the pieces in place. To me it doesnt matter what Melo makes, so long as we can get the pieces in place.
Some gambles make more sense than others though. It would be one thing if this was Lebron, Durant, or even a top all-star who was much younger. But $100 mil or more so that Melo can play out his twelfth to sixteenth seasons here? I don't think he's worth $20+ mil per year right now, anyway, though, but I know we'll disagree on that.
We do disagree... I think $20mm is probably about right. Its a lot, but just kind of how these things work. You generally overpay to keep your own guys. There are some exceptions but thats the norm. Much more interesting will be what we pay Shump. He's in a contract year. What happens when he has a great season and wants $8mm per like other similar players?
fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:If a player is overpaid and aging badly, he is a terrible burden. You can't approach any investment, let alone a $100 million one, as if the price doesn't matter. Knicks' fans certainly should know this by now!
Any player aging badly is a burden. Unless a guy is really young most contracts are a burden by the time they expire, if you let them. You cant really control that beyond limiting minutes and building a deep roster, and even then. Older guys get hurt more.Its the trade off every team makes no? Pay less up front so you have more flexilibility to get the pieces in place. To me it doesnt matter what Melo makes, so long as we can get the pieces in place.
Some gambles make more sense than others though. It would be one thing if this was Lebron, Durant, or even a top all-star who was much younger. But $100 mil or more so that Melo can play out his twelfth to sixteenth seasons here? I don't think he's worth $20+ mil per year right now, anyway, though, but I know we'll disagree on that.
We do disagree... I think $20mm is probably about right. Its a lot, but just kind of how these things work. You generally overpay to keep your own guys. There are some exceptions but thats the norm. Much more interesting will be what we pay Shump. He's in a contract year. What happens when he has a great season and wants $8mm per like other similar players?
Hopefully we trade him by the deadline if he's having a great season but many people here will fall in love with him.
fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:If a player is overpaid and aging badly, he is a terrible burden. You can't approach any investment, let alone a $100 million one, as if the price doesn't matter. Knicks' fans certainly should know this by now!
Any player aging badly is a burden. Unless a guy is really young most contracts are a burden by the time they expire, if you let them. You cant really control that beyond limiting minutes and building a deep roster, and even then. Older guys get hurt more.Its the trade off every team makes no? Pay less up front so you have more flexilibility to get the pieces in place. To me it doesnt matter what Melo makes, so long as we can get the pieces in place.
Some gambles make more sense than others though. It would be one thing if this was Lebron, Durant, or even a top all-star who was much younger. But $100 mil or more so that Melo can play out his twelfth to sixteenth seasons here? I don't think he's worth $20+ mil per year right now, anyway, though, but I know we'll disagree on that.
We do disagree... I think $20mm is probably about right. Its a lot, but just kind of how these things work. You generally overpay to keep your own guys. There are some exceptions but thats the norm. Much more interesting will be what we pay Shump. He's in a contract year. What happens when he has a great season and wants $8mm per like other similar players?
Then We are in great shape and we own his bird rights to pay him what he deserves. You can go over the cap to sign your own. Remember Lin?
Looks like we all agree on Melo. I would go $17-22 with yearly incremental increases if Melo is kept. Less in the first 2yrs to allow us to add as much talent as possible. And then just hope he doesn't become H20 v2.0 because of overuse in this 11 seasons
gunsnewing wrote:fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:If a player is overpaid and aging badly, he is a terrible burden. You can't approach any investment, let alone a $100 million one, as if the price doesn't matter. Knicks' fans certainly should know this by now!
Any player aging badly is a burden. Unless a guy is really young most contracts are a burden by the time they expire, if you let them. You cant really control that beyond limiting minutes and building a deep roster, and even then. Older guys get hurt more.Its the trade off every team makes no? Pay less up front so you have more flexilibility to get the pieces in place. To me it doesnt matter what Melo makes, so long as we can get the pieces in place.
Some gambles make more sense than others though. It would be one thing if this was Lebron, Durant, or even a top all-star who was much younger. But $100 mil or more so that Melo can play out his twelfth to sixteenth seasons here? I don't think he's worth $20+ mil per year right now, anyway, though, but I know we'll disagree on that.
We do disagree... I think $20mm is probably about right. Its a lot, but just kind of how these things work. You generally overpay to keep your own guys. There are some exceptions but thats the norm. Much more interesting will be what we pay Shump. He's in a contract year. What happens when he has a great season and wants $8mm per like other similar players?
Then We are in great shape and we own his bird rights to pay him what he deserves. You can go over the cap to sign your own. Remember Lin?
Looks like we all agree on Melo. I would go $17-22 with yearly incremental increases if Melo is kept. Less in the first 2yrs to allow us to add as much talent as possible. And then just hope he doesn't become H20 v2.0 because of overuse in this 11 seasons
I think your Melo #s are exactly where Phil is also. You can offer him something in that range that is higher than what he would get if he left but well below the max he could make if he stayed.
I bring up Shump because he's a FA the same year Amare/Bargs/Chandler all expire. So if we keep him and yea we control his bird rights resigning him chops up our cap space.
If Shumpert plays well enough to warrant $8m he should be kept. Need continuity and you don't know if JR will still be in the league by then and THJ may never learn defense but would be great as a cheap 6th man. If Shumpert continues to struggle from the perimeter than you replace him with a SG who can shoot but someone's got to defend. I see Shumpert become a favorite of Phil
Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:If a player is overpaid and aging badly, he is a terrible burden. You can't approach any investment, let alone a $100 million one, as if the price doesn't matter. Knicks' fans certainly should know this by now!
Any player aging badly is a burden. Unless a guy is really young most contracts are a burden by the time they expire, if you let them. You cant really control that beyond limiting minutes and building a deep roster, and even then. Older guys get hurt more.Its the trade off every team makes no? Pay less up front so you have more flexilibility to get the pieces in place. To me it doesnt matter what Melo makes, so long as we can get the pieces in place.
Some gambles make more sense than others though. It would be one thing if this was Lebron, Durant, or even a top all-star who was much younger. But $100 mil or more so that Melo can play out his twelfth to sixteenth seasons here? I don't think he's worth $20+ mil per year right now, anyway, though, but I know we'll disagree on that.
exactly and on top of that bonn, knicks fans want to pay him max money, or close to max, going into his 13th season, on the other side of 30, hoping he " finally gets it", "learns to play defense", "learns how to pass", "learns how to win"... I mean these are things you look for in guys like wall, durant, george.. guys at that stage in their careers... it is not reasonable to pay anyone a 100 mil contract and hope for things that just don't happen to guys this late in their careers..
gunsnewing wrote:If Shumpert plays well enough to warrant $8m he should be kept. Need continuity and you don't know if JR will still be in the league by then and THJ may never learn defense but would be great as a cheap 6th man. If Shumpert continues to struggle from the perimeter than you replace him with a SG who can shoot but someone's got to defend. I see Shumpert become a favorite of Phil
so do I. I forget which game Shump had those 5-6 steals but he was all over the place. Shump is injury prone though.. if he can stay healthy and becomes an impact player on both ends I totally agree. This is why you develop young guys. I also think he's a key factor in NOT going the cap space route, but we will see.
Yea you know I much rather develop our own then starphuch an entire core and pray that the pieces fit. Unless Lebron is involved you need some kind of continuity and players that fill roles. Shumpert's role will be clearly defined by Kerr through Phil. Woodson had no idea what he was doing with anyone on this roster except Melo
I honestly don't see Melo taking a pay cut. He is due $23.5M next year. So we are saying he will opt out to take $18M per year? I don't see that happening.
NYKBocker wrote:I honestly don't see Melo taking a pay cut. He is due $23.5M next year. So we are saying he will opt out to take $18M per year? I don't see that happening.
That's the thing. Before Phil signed on you could rest assure his contract was starting at $24m
My guess is phill can layout a plan that shows the more he makes, the more problematic the roster.
They need to also show him objectively how the same monies would effect other teams he might deem to be a good fit.
Melo said "grass is not always greener" and would have to see that him on Houstan seems nice with a trio of stars, but what is the rest of the bench like? What worked with Miami don't always work elsewhere. In Chicago, you have Noah with chronic foot problems, DRose a big question mark and again with a trio of big salary what is the bench look like? Noah is banged up every year and going 4 series in the playoffs is not easy task.
Everywhere you turn the new CBA can get you paid but "winning" is a tougher gig.
Its getting harder to predict teams. Who thought Toronto in a rebuilding year does so well? Nalod picked both Washington and Cleveland to "be playoff contenders" but just one did actually progress their. Out west, PHX wins 48 games and can't get in while Portland surges as second year Lillard becomes a true star! While Nets sold that pick out for Crash, think 7 teams might want to redue that draft? Maybe portland wanted to trade that pick but could not get value. It was a weird draft. At the same time Aldridge who rumored to want out turns out to be a MVP contender and a playoff beast!! For all we know Minny is one player away from being a winning team! Golden state looks like they are one bad ankle away from being sub .500 if Curry slows down again.
gunsnewing wrote:NYKBocker wrote:I honestly don't see Melo taking a pay cut. He is due $23.5M next year. So we are saying he will opt out to take $18M per year? I don't see that happening.
That's the thing. Before Phil signed on you could rest assure his contract was starting at $24m
Yup. So I think our only option to sell high and let the Houston and Chicago of the world bid on our prized possesion. Because that is what Melo is right now, a trading asset.
