Knicks · Kevin love demanding a trade (page 4)
mreinman wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:I don't think that going after Love or any other Max is not the key. The knicks really don't have the assets and can't get the assets needed unless Shump and Chandler have future 1st rd value. I think CHandler might but SHump is a question mark. IF they do I still wouldn't go after Love in a trade because Those future 1st will probably not be lottery picks and if I'm Minny I want young talent or unprotected 1st rd picks.What I would do is trade for non-max secondary players to fill out the team. Try to pry Afflalo with a 1st and Hardaway Jr then try to get Ilyasova and Middleton with another 1st. That's two players for less than max money which would leave room to grab the right player in FA when STAT comes off the Cap.
You think that Affalo is worth Hardaway + a first??
My personal opinion is that he is only worth a 1st but I am not sure that gets him. What do you think? Maybe they would Like Hardaway Jr and Oladipo to grow up together like Wall and Beal. Oladipo first season is more similar to Westbrook but it just depends on what they think of Ola.
yellowboy90 wrote:mreinman wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:I don't think that going after Love or any other Max is not the key. The knicks really don't have the assets and can't get the assets needed unless Shump and Chandler have future 1st rd value. I think CHandler might but SHump is a question mark. IF they do I still wouldn't go after Love in a trade because Those future 1st will probably not be lottery picks and if I'm Minny I want young talent or unprotected 1st rd picks.What I would do is trade for non-max secondary players to fill out the team. Try to pry Afflalo with a 1st and Hardaway Jr then try to get Ilyasova and Middleton with another 1st. That's two players for less than max money which would leave room to grab the right player in FA when STAT comes off the Cap.
You think that Affalo is worth Hardaway + a first??
My personal opinion is that he is only worth a 1st but I am not sure that gets him. What do you think? Maybe they would Like Hardaway Jr and Oladipo to grow up together like Wall and Beal. Oladipo first season is more similar to Westbrook but it just depends on what they think of Ola.
I like Affalo but if I'm giving away a first round pick and a yute, it better be for a more impact player like lowry.
mreinman wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:mreinman wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:I don't think that going after Love or any other Max is not the key. The knicks really don't have the assets and can't get the assets needed unless Shump and Chandler have future 1st rd value. I think CHandler might but SHump is a question mark. IF they do I still wouldn't go after Love in a trade because Those future 1st will probably not be lottery picks and if I'm Minny I want young talent or unprotected 1st rd picks.What I would do is trade for non-max secondary players to fill out the team. Try to pry Afflalo with a 1st and Hardaway Jr then try to get Ilyasova and Middleton with another 1st. That's two players for less than max money which would leave room to grab the right player in FA when STAT comes off the Cap.
You think that Affalo is worth Hardaway + a first??
My personal opinion is that he is only worth a 1st but I am not sure that gets him. What do you think? Maybe they would Like Hardaway Jr and Oladipo to grow up together like Wall and Beal. Oladipo first season is more similar to Westbrook but it just depends on what they think of Ola.
I like Affalo but if I'm giving away a first round pick and a yute, it better be for a more impact player like lowry.
I see Afflalo as an impact player because of his defense and his shooting plus he is cheap. Look what the Pacers sent the suns for Scola. Nba trade market is fickle. You just never know.
Edit:
On further review. Mills didn't give up a similar pkg(reportedly) for Lowry so I doubt he would do it for Afflalo but if Orl Would do Hardaway or a pick for Afflalo then I would do it. Orl needs to capitalize on Arron because he is getting old and they can build a young nucleus.
Hardaway Jr probably has real value around the league. He is probably the 3rd or 4th best sg in the last 3 years of the draft.
Klay
Beal
Hardaway Jr.
Butler would be above Tim too if he is at SG but other than that the young SG well is dry.
So it would be a 1st rd pick or nothing for Afflalo.
yellowboy90 wrote:mreinman wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:mreinman wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:I don't think that going after Love or any other Max is not the key. The knicks really don't have the assets and can't get the assets needed unless Shump and Chandler have future 1st rd value. I think CHandler might but SHump is a question mark. IF they do I still wouldn't go after Love in a trade because Those future 1st will probably not be lottery picks and if I'm Minny I want young talent or unprotected 1st rd picks.What I would do is trade for non-max secondary players to fill out the team. Try to pry Afflalo with a 1st and Hardaway Jr then try to get Ilyasova and Middleton with another 1st. That's two players for less than max money which would leave room to grab the right player in FA when STAT comes off the Cap.
You think that Affalo is worth Hardaway + a first??
My personal opinion is that he is only worth a 1st but I am not sure that gets him. What do you think? Maybe they would Like Hardaway Jr and Oladipo to grow up together like Wall and Beal. Oladipo first season is more similar to Westbrook but it just depends on what they think of Ola.
I like Affalo but if I'm giving away a first round pick and a yute, it better be for a more impact player like lowry.
I see Afflalo as an impact player because of his defense and his shooting plus he is cheap. Look what the Pacers sent the suns for Scola. Nba trade market is fickle. You just never know.
As long as there is no picks involved, perhaps. I would like to use our pick on Love since that is why we did not use it on lowry.
Lets try drafting and getting our own Affalo's and good players instead of trading for them.
NardDogNation wrote:LivingLegend wrote:I hear everyone who is down on Love --- I've got some of those feelings as well but listening to the radio tonight and host mentioned Love is still only 25 (not sure if that's true) and after Durant has the 2nd best per in the league.Maybe some of those Minny guys like Pec, Rubio and K-Martin are overrated and they were in the West.
If Minny was in the east and made it to the playoffs and went on a little run like the Wizards -- we'd probably all be drooling over K-Love. I mean his game seems perfectly built for the playoff wars in the paint.
Starting to talk myself into some Love.
Love, shockingly, is only 25 and has the 3rd best PER in the league behind Durant and LeBron (not the 2nd). That should be more than enough to talk yourself into some Love. As I've said a dozen times, the only thing that could be better is if we trade for Rudy Gay to from a Gay-Love tandem in the frontcourt. It'd be great if we could push the ball aboard the Gay-Love Express.
lOVE IS ALSO 25, has been in the league for 6 years and never made the playoffs.. love is a good player, although I think most are overrating this dude... If I were the rockets would I want love? yes, that makes sense.. but If I were a team rebuilding, or a team that needs to rebuild like the knicks, do I give up picks and young players for love? No! not as his price tag.. the dude already gave away that he wants a max deal..
Knicks and knicks fans need to get away from this thinking.. the quick fixes with guys who have not won... had we had our own pick this year who knows, we could be drafting a 1-A (as you guys call it) type talent...
The knicks and their fans want to skip the process of methodically building a team.. instead we shortcut our way only to find out we are further back than we started.. and then we justify it somehow by saying a straight line isn't always the fastest way from point A to point B, and make up reasons why... go figure...
Sharif Abdul Rahim anyone? There's a reason he barely played in the Olympics. Sure his numbers look great but you have to look last them. He's going to get $20mil+ from someon. Holefuy not the Phil Jackson Knicks
Knicks should be looking to draft the next 1 or 2 option. You rarely get those guys through free agency. Sometimes you look out in a trade too. Drafting is the cheapest and most effective in touring things around quickly in a big way. I'm hopeful that Phil sees this. He win 11 rings with Jordan and Kobe after all
EnySpree wrote:Best deal for Love comes out of Golden state.... They could send Klay and Lee for Love and Shabazz...Two ucla guys. That's a fair trade....Lee and Rubio with Kay and Kevin Martin is a nice reload for them.
Define "fair", lol.
gunsnewing wrote:Agreed. With Love people are making the same common mistake they always make. Overrating a player who happens to put up numbers on a bad team and thinking that he's a like 2 option. He is not a player you build around. Nice Borderline 2nd/3rd option on a good team. But if you listen to New York media he is a franchise max player.Sharif Abdul Rahim anyone? There's a reason he barely played in the Olympics. Sure his numbers look great but you have to look last them. He's going to get $20mil+ from someon. Holefuy not the Phil Jackson Knicks
Knicks should be looking to draft the next 1 or 2 option. You rarely get those guys through free agency. Sometimes you look out in a trade too. Drafting is the cheapest and most effective in touring things around quickly in a big way. I'm hopeful that Phil sees this. He win 11 rings with Jordan and Kobe after all
Barely played in the olympics?? I think you are talking about Tyson. Love played about as much as Kobe an Melo and played very well. He scored 11.6 points on 63% shooting! And he avg'd 7.6 rebounds in 17 minutes!
Minnesota having an awful team that can't shoot (other than him) is not his fault. You want him to put up better numbers? pass more? rebound more?
Play defense better, now that is the only argument.
Offensively, he is a max player in every way and one of the best rebounders this league has seen in a very long time.
Nalod wrote:Love is 25!Lets try drafting and getting our own Affalo's and good players instead of trading for them.
You rather draft an unkown, and hope he turns out respectable as oppose to a sure thing..suppose we draft a greg oden type or some below avg players we thought had potential...then what would do?
Only in New York people have zero patience for developing talent
15yrs and counting of being laughing stocks. Maybe it's time to do things differently
gunsnewing wrote:You draft again the following yearOnly in New York people have zero patience for developing talent
15yrs and counting of being laughing stocks. Maybe it's time to do things differently
the 99 team was pretty much all non knicks drafted players except for the aged Ewing.
I am a big proponent of the draft and we have phucked ourselves again and again but if 25 y/o Love is a available for our first rounder 2018 and a few of our other stiffs then I am in big time.
Love is doing things that are unprecidented and he is still getting better!
Problem is that Celtics are probably willing to part with the #5 pick plus players so we don't stand a chance.
You can't stick to one philosophy, each move has to be judged for itself and must smart and logical.
gunsnewing wrote:Agreed. With Love people are making the same common mistake they always make. Overrating a player who happens to put up numbers on a bad team and thinking that he's a like 2 option. He is not a player you build around. Nice Borderline 2nd/3rd option on a good team. But if you listen to New York media he is a franchise max player.Sharif Abdul Rahim anyone? There's a reason he barely played in the Olympics. Sure his numbers look great but you have to look last them. He's going to get $20mil+ from someon. Holefuy not the Phil Jackson Knicks
Knicks should be looking to draft the next 1 or 2 option. You rarely get those guys through free agency. Sometimes you look out in a trade too. Drafting is the cheapest and most effective in touring things around quickly in a big way. I'm hopeful that Phil sees this. He win 11 rings with Jordan and Kobe after all
exactly guns. I am not saying love isn't a good player.. just not for the knicks at his price.. to me He is not a franchise player.. often that mistake is made with guys like him. He is going to get paid, but as you said, hopefully not from the knicks..
Look at how quick the wizards built that team.. now I know it may not seem like it was quick, but it was.. they drafted wall, made a few trades, got nene, ariza, gortat, and drafted beal.. now they have a young back court set for the next 5-8 years... it can be done!!
gunsnewing wrote:I agree but I don't think teaming Love up with Melo is logical
Probably not a good fit but if Melo walks (which he probably will) and we can build around Love, it may be a very good fit.
mreinman wrote:gunsnewing wrote:You draft again the following yearOnly in New York people have zero patience for developing talent
15yrs and counting of being laughing stocks. Maybe it's time to do things differently
the 99 team was pretty much all non knicks drafted players except for the aged Ewing.
I am a big proponent of the draft and we have phucked ourselves again and again but if 25 y/o Love is a available for our first rounder 2018 and a few of our other stiffs then I am in big time.
Love is doing things that are unprecidented and he is still getting better!
Problem is that Celtics are probably willing to part with the #5 pick plus players so we don't stand a chance.
You can't stick to one philosophy, each move has to be judged for itself and must smart and logical.
unprecidented, yet what is the impact? one thing he isn't doing is elevating his team.. and if he can't do that, then I pass.... If I were the knicks.. another team, a better team, in a better situation may be a better fit...
The guy is a good, not great player.... He is a jump shooting big man... and lets be fair, he has had his share of injuries as well.. his teams lack of success is just not them being bad.. but being injured and he has been a culprit..
gunsnewing wrote:You draft again the following yearOnly in New York people have zero patience for developing talent
15yrs and counting of being laughing stocks. Maybe it's time to do things differently
you can probably can count on your fingers the amount of players that are still with the team that drafted them..and im talking the last 5 ys.
You draft a player, sit through 2 to 3 losing season trying to develop them, coach gets fired, player wants out of a losing situation and starts talikng about bouncing without the franchise getting compensation, so make a quick trade for dfart picks and start the sam sht all over again
knicks1248 wrote:gunsnewing wrote:You draft again the following yearOnly in New York people have zero patience for developing talent
15yrs and counting of being laughing stocks. Maybe it's time to do things differently
you can probably can count on your fingers the amount of players that are still with the team that drafted them..and im talking the last 5 ys.
You draft a player, sit through 2 to 3 losing season trying to develop them, coach gets fired, player wants out of a losing situation and starts talikng about bouncing without the franchise getting compensation, so make a quick trade for dfart picks and start the sam sht all over again
Spurs/Indiana/Okc have this problem?
tkf wrote:mreinman wrote:gunsnewing wrote:You draft again the following yearOnly in New York people have zero patience for developing talent
15yrs and counting of being laughing stocks. Maybe it's time to do things differently
the 99 team was pretty much all non knicks drafted players except for the aged Ewing.
I am a big proponent of the draft and we have phucked ourselves again and again but if 25 y/o Love is a available for our first rounder 2018 and a few of our other stiffs then I am in big time.
Love is doing things that are unprecidented and he is still getting better!
Problem is that Celtics are probably willing to part with the #5 pick plus players so we don't stand a chance.
You can't stick to one philosophy, each move has to be judged for itself and must smart and logical.
unprecidented, yet what is the impact? one thing he isn't doing is elevating his team.. and if he can't do that, then I pass.... If I were the knicks.. another team, a better team, in a better situation may be a better fit...
The guy is a good, not great player.... He is a jump shooting big man... and lets be fair, he has had his share of injuries as well.. his teams lack of success is just not them being bad.. but being injured and he has been a culprit..
He elevated them to 40 wins in an extremely tough conf (how many wins would they have gotten in the east? And, would they have made the playoffs?). Without him maybe they win 20 games this year (and I am sure they can looking forward to stinking next year).
Jump shooting big man, dunking big man, hook shooting big man ... its all good if they are producing extremely efficiently.
He played 77 games this year so we can't blame this years record on injury.
I do worry about his injuries to his hands and I would certainly not sign him unless I did a lot of research and spoke to all of his doctors to make sure that his injuries were one time flukes and not nagging or recurring ones.
Here is a good article on KLove: