I rather have Jared Dudley of 2015
be careful when you criticize Shump on how he got his points - a lot of that, I think, is on the coach.
Now- he's had some nice stretches shooting the 3. I can totally see him being kept by Phil and having a specialist role like Shane Battier - defensive stopper and 3 pt specialist.
Phil & the coach just need to have a philosophy and system to how they are going to use players and get the maximum out of them.
I'm happy to keep him, but he is getting up their in years and salary where the team will need to make a decision.
I wont be upset if Shump stays. Like Bargs, the triangle might give Shumpert the structure he needs. I am curious to see who Phil would draft with that pick. What kind of job he will do as an executive.
gunsnewing wrote:Shumpert was pick 17
Yeah, I meant to edit that earlier but have been on the run. I think I had his jersey number (which is 21) in mind.
GustavBahler wrote:NardDogNation wrote:GustavBahler wrote:NardDogNation wrote:Vmart wrote:I know he won't reach his potential I mean I was expecting a 17-5-5 season out of Shumpert, but now that I think about it after last season he is basically a bust. Besides its obvious he isn't devoted to basketball and has other interests.
How is he a bust? Because you grossly overestimated his abilities? He went 21st in the draft and usually those guys seldom become rotation players, let alone an elite specialist.
I wouldn't call him a bust, but its fair to say that most (myself included) expected more from Shump at this stage in his career. We might have differing opinions as to what numbers he should be putting up at this point, but I'm pretty sure no one expected what Iman put up last season. He may thrive somewhere else. Iman sure isn't thriving here.
I would consider a first round pick for Shump a good thing. I believe we could have gotten a high draft pick for him earlier in his career, but not anymore.
The ACL no doubt changed the trajectory of his career IMO. I don't think he's been the same since. But even if that's the case, I think there is a good shot he becomes a better shooting Toney Allen, which isn't bad. All he needs to do is tightening up his defense with his man going back door and to cut down on his foolish fouls to accomplish that. Just last season he was ranked as the 3rd best defensive guard in the league so I don't think that it is much of a stretch.
You're right about the ACL of course, it did stunt his growth as a player. Unfortunately it doesn't explain his inability to consistently finish at the rim this far into his career. Shumpert being a good defender is what would get us that low first round pick.
What Shump has to do is to learn how to vary his offense. Like a boxer who knows when to throw jabs, uppercuts, body blows, (just had a Mike Tyson Punchout flashback there) Iman has to do a better job of deciding how he is going to get buckets. Its mostly 3 point shooting, the occasional jumper, and that's about it. He needs to show a balanced attack.
Ever since he's had that ACL injury, he has appeared to be very tentative about getting the ball to the rim. He seems like he's terrified of landing awkwardly, which forces him to release the ball carelessly/too soon. I agree that he'd greatly benefit from diversifying his offensive game but he'd still have value as a defender that can hit jumpers. I suppose that I never really bought into Shumpert's hype because of the track record our young players and the fan bases tendency to overhype them, which has allowed me to be satisfied with him being a decent role player for us. If we can get value for him though, I'd trade him in a heartbeat.
yellowboy90 wrote:I hope they look to Milwaukee and try to snag Middleton and the number 32 pick.
Good idea. I've liked what I have seen from both Middleton and Jeff Adrien, who came on strong for them after he was traded from the Bobcats.
OKC knows those picks are little to zero value and are looking for a Thabo replacement. Knicks dont benefit from this at all.
Seriously this is absurd
I also rather buy a cheaper 2nd rd pick than the 19th
GTFO
Phil is not stupid
Shumpert is a good defender but like the article said, his low IQ on offense and inability to pass makes him a below average player. Trade his ass.
Silverfuel wrote:Shumpert is a good defender but like the article said, his low IQ on offense and inability to pass makes him a below average player. Trade his ass.
thats fine, but do you trade him for picks that usual dont become nba players like this same article is suggesting?
knickscity wrote:Silverfuel wrote:Shumpert is a good defender but like the article said, how IQ on offense and inability to pass makes him a below average player. Trade his ass.
thats fine, but do you trade him for picks that usual dont become nba players like this same article is suggesting?
Yes, you take a chance on a player your scouts think can help. Why keep a guy who can't help on a consistent basis?
Silverfuel wrote:Shumpert is a good defender but like the article said, his low IQ on offense and inability to pass makes him a below average player. Trade his ass.
I'd move him and $3 million for their 21st and 29th picks. At 21 I'd select Adrien Payne and Spencer Dinwiddie at 29.
NardDogNation wrote:Silverfuel wrote:Shumpert is a good defender but like the article said, his low IQ on offense and inability to pass makes him a below average player. Trade his ass.
I'd move him and $3 million for their 21st and 29th picks. At 21 I'd select Adrien Payne and Spencer Dinwiddie at 29.
I could get behind that. Maybe package those picks and move a bit higher and try nabbing Tyler Harris or Elfrid Peyton.
yellowboy90 wrote:knickscity wrote:Silverfuel wrote:Shumpert is a good defender but like the article said, how IQ on offense and inability to pass makes him a below average player. Trade his ass.
thats fine, but do you trade him for picks that usual dont become nba players like this same article is suggesting?
Yes, you take a chance on a player your scouts think can help. Why keep a guy who can't help on a consistent basis?
Unless a higher ranked player somehow has slipped, you keep the better of the two.
OKC's interest is obvious, they likely WONT find a defender/Thabo replacement as good as shumpert in that position in the draft.
they seriously would have to fork over both picks as neither weilds a good player and is a huge risk from a player and financial standpoint.
knickscity wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:knickscity wrote:Silverfuel wrote:Shumpert is a good defender but like the article said, how IQ on offense and inability to pass makes him a below average player. Trade his ass.
thats fine, but do you trade him for picks that usual dont become nba players like this same article is suggesting?
Yes, you take a chance on a player your scouts think can help. Why keep a guy who can't help on a consistent basis?
Unless a higher ranked player somehow has slipped, you keep the better of the two.OKC's interest is obvious, they likely WONT find a defender/Thabo replacement as good as shumpert in that position in the draft.
they seriously would have to fork over both picks as neither weilds a good player and is a huge risk from a player and financial standpoint.
I don't think there is anyway the Knicks get two picks for Shump. If they can they need to do it. The financial impact helps the Knicks according to the Knicksblog:
It’s a good move for the Knicks salary cap-wise. The 29th pick will make $959,000 in 2015-16. Shumpert, on the other hand, is set to earn $2.6 million in 2014-15 with a $3.7 million qualifying offer in 2015-16.
http://theknicksblog.com/knicks/knicks-c...
NardDogNation wrote:GustavBahler wrote:NardDogNation wrote:GustavBahler wrote:NardDogNation wrote:Vmart wrote:I know he won't reach his potential I mean I was expecting a 17-5-5 season out of Shumpert, but now that I think about it after last season he is basically a bust. Besides its obvious he isn't devoted to basketball and has other interests.
How is he a bust? Because you grossly overestimated his abilities? He went 21st in the draft and usually those guys seldom become rotation players, let alone an elite specialist.
I wouldn't call him a bust, but its fair to say that most (myself included) expected more from Shump at this stage in his career. We might have differing opinions as to what numbers he should be putting up at this point, but I'm pretty sure no one expected what Iman put up last season. He may thrive somewhere else. Iman sure isn't thriving here.
I would consider a first round pick for Shump a good thing. I believe we could have gotten a high draft pick for him earlier in his career, but not anymore.
The ACL no doubt changed the trajectory of his career IMO. I don't think he's been the same since. But even if that's the case, I think there is a good shot he becomes a better shooting Toney Allen, which isn't bad. All he needs to do is tightening up his defense with his man going back door and to cut down on his foolish fouls to accomplish that. Just last season he was ranked as the 3rd best defensive guard in the league so I don't think that it is much of a stretch.
You're right about the ACL of course, it did stunt his growth as a player. Unfortunately it doesn't explain his inability to consistently finish at the rim this far into his career. Shumpert being a good defender is what would get us that low first round pick.
What Shump has to do is to learn how to vary his offense. Like a boxer who knows when to throw jabs, uppercuts, body blows, (just had a Mike Tyson Punchout flashback there) Iman has to do a better job of deciding how he is going to get buckets. Its mostly 3 point shooting, the occasional jumper, and that's about it. He needs to show a balanced attack.
Ever since he's had that ACL injury, he has appeared to be very tentative about getting the ball to the rim. He seems like he's terrified of landing awkwardly, which forces him to release the ball carelessly/too soon. I agree that he'd greatly benefit from diversifying his offensive game but he'd still have value as a defender that can hit jumpers. I suppose that I never really bought into Shumpert's hype because of the track record our young players and the fan bases tendency to overhype them, which has allowed me to be satisfied with him being a decent role player for us. If we can get value for him though, I'd trade him in a heartbeat.
Shump's trouble finishing at the rim predates his injury.
CrushAlot wrote:knickscity wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:knickscity wrote:Silverfuel wrote:Shumpert is a good defender but like the article said, how IQ on offense and inability to pass makes him a below average player. Trade his ass.
thats fine, but do you trade him for picks that usual dont become nba players like this same article is suggesting?
Yes, you take a chance on a player your scouts think can help. Why keep a guy who can't help on a consistent basis?
Unless a higher ranked player somehow has slipped, you keep the better of the two.OKC's interest is obvious, they likely WONT find a defender/Thabo replacement as good as shumpert in that position in the draft.
they seriously would have to fork over both picks as neither weilds a good player and is a huge risk from a player and financial standpoint.
I don't think there is anyway the Knicks get two picks for Shump. If they can they need to do it. The financial impact helps the Knicks according to the Knicksblog:
It’s a good move for the Knicks salary cap-wise. The 29th pick will make $959,000 in 2015-16. Shumpert, on the other hand, is set to earn $2.6 million in 2014-15 with a $3.7 million qualifying offer in 2015-16.
http://theknicksblog.com/knicks/knicks-c...
I doubt Shump could fetch two decent first round picks this year. That said, I'd rather draft a second rounder and add a team option to his contract than draft him 29 if money is an issue. Let's see if we can buy a second rounder and still keep Shump as an asset. If Shump continues to struggle next season than we can still give him away. Someone will take a chance on potential 3 and D guy in the last year of his contract.If we're lucky, maybe he regains some value before we trade him.
I can see why they'd explore this. Smith is a tough to move and maybe they want to give more playing time to Hardaway. That doesn't leave a lot of minutes at SG. That being said, it would take more than 29 for me to consider moving Shumpert.
NardDogNation wrote:Silverfuel wrote:Shumpert is a good defender but like the article said, his low IQ on offense and inability to pass makes him a below average player. Trade his ass.
I'd move him and $3 million for their 21st and 29th picks. At 21 I'd select Adrien Payne and Spencer Dinwiddie at 29.
I like this thought process but would prefer Kyle Anderson at #21 and Dinwiddie at #29.
Vmart wrote:I know he won't reach his potential I mean I was expecting a 17-5-5 season out of Shumpert, but now that I think about it after last season he is basically a bust. Besides its obvious he isn't devoted to basketball and has other interests.
wow, really?
LivingLegend wrote:NardDogNation wrote:Silverfuel wrote:Shumpert is a good defender but like the article said, his low IQ on offense and inability to pass makes him a below average player. Trade his ass.
I'd move him and $3 million for their 21st and 29th picks. At 21 I'd select Adrien Payne and Spencer Dinwiddie at 29.
I like this thought process but would prefer Kyle Anderson at #21 and Dinwiddie at #29.
I haven't seen any mock drafts that have Kyle Anderson going any later than 20th. If we could maneuver into a higher position to select him, I'd be all for it.
