Knicks · Serious Question 2.0: Could We Use the Stretch Provision on Everyone but Melo and THJr? (page 1)

If we did, we'd have a cap hold of $23 million, not including Melo's contract, which would in effect leave us with $33 million in cap space. Can you say, "HELLOOOOOO LeBron!!!!!!"?

I think we might be able to make a few trades to alleviate that cap hold, if we trade for contracts that we can dump on another team with cap space e.g. Tyson Chandler for Perkins, picks and a $3 million trade exception; then dump Perkins on the Mavericks for an additional $9 million trade exception. That's in effect $12 million we'd remove from our payroll, which would also remove an additional $3.5 million off the original $23 million cap hold I calculated. When you figure that we can make additional moves to lower our payroll (e.g. trading Amar'e for Josh Smith and a $6 million trade exception), we could effectively create a significant amount of cap space to build this team. Yeah, Dolan would be on the hook for $70 million in addition to whatever our payroll would be but it isn't my money and he clearly has a bunch.

Honestly if I was a GM and Lebron wanted to play in NY with Melo I would try to buyout Felton, JR, Amare, & Bargs.

You would have to trade Tyson for a pick and cheaper vet though. That would make room to get Melo and Lebron at 17M and possibly sneak in Lowry.

yellowboy90 wrote:Honestly if I was a GM and Lebron wanted to play in NY with Melo I would try to buyout Felton, JR, Amare, & Bargs.

You would have to trade Tyson for a pick and cheaper vet though. That would make room to get Melo and Lebron at 17M and possibly sneak in Lowry.

If you buyout a player their salary still gets counted against the cap, right? That's what I've always assumed and I'd be really surprised if it weren't the case. Unless its the one time amnesty (which we used on Billups) I dont think there is any way to simply buy out a player without a cap hit. Someone please correct me if Im wrong.

As an aside, imagine if this were allowed. You'd have teams buying out players left and right, all year round, year in year out.

NardDogNation wrote:If we did, we'd have a cap hold of $23 million, not including Melo's contract, which would in effect leave us with $33 million in cap space. Can you say, "HELLOOOOOO LeBron!!!!!!"?

You can only use the stretch provision on one player who is on the active roster, I believe. I think once that player's contract comes off the books or is traded or what have you, a team can then stretch another player.

EDIT: Actually its more complicated than even that:

Individually negotiated revisions to the payment schedule are not allowed for contracts signed or extended under the current CBA2. For these contracts or extensions the remaining guaranteed salary for a waived player is "stretched" and paid in equal amounts over a greater time span, as follows:

If the player is waived from July 1 to August 31, then his remaining salary is paid over twice the number of years remaining on his contract, plus one. For example, if the player is waived on August 1 with two seasons remaining on his contract at $10.2 million and $10.3 million, respectively, then his remaining salary is paid over five years (two seasons times two, plus one), in even amounts of $4.1 million per year.
If the player is waived from September 1 to June 30, then the current season is paid per the normal payment schedule, and any remaining years are stretched over twice the number of years remaining plus one as described above. For example, if the player is waived on December 1 with two seasons remaining on his contract at $10.2 million and $10.5 million, respectively, then the current season (at $10.2 million) is paid normally, and the final season (at $10.5 million) is stretched over three years (one season times two, plus one) and paid in even amounts of $3.5 million per year.

Source is here: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q64

yellowboy90 wrote:Honestly if I was a GM and Lebron wanted to play in NY with Melo I would try to buyout Felton, JR, Amare, & Bargs.

You would have to trade Tyson for a pick and cheaper vet though. That would make room to get Melo and Lebron at 17M and possibly sneak in Lowry.

If you buy them out, a majority of their contract still appear on the payroll. I'd be surprised if you could knock off $10 million from the payroll if you went that route. With the stretch provision though, you can effectively remove two-thirds of their contracts off the payroll immediately. If you can do that with multiple players, that might be our ticket to upgrading those roster. This is of course if Dolan is willing to eat $70 million on players that aren't even on the team anymore. I suspect that he can afford it though.

H1AND1 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:If we did, we'd have a cap hold of $23 million, not including Melo's contract, which would in effect leave us with $33 million in cap space. Can you say, "HELLOOOOOO LeBron!!!!!!"?

You can only use the stretch provision on one player who is on the active roster, I believe. I think once that player's contract comes off the books or is traded or what have you, a team can then stretch another player.

EDIT: Actually its more complicated than even that:

Individually negotiated revisions to the payment schedule are not allowed for contracts signed or extended under the current CBA2. For these contracts or extensions the remaining guaranteed salary for a waived player is "stretched" and paid in equal amounts over a greater time span, as follows:

If the player is waived from July 1 to August 31, then his remaining salary is paid over twice the number of years remaining on his contract, plus one. For example, if the player is waived on August 1 with two seasons remaining on his contract at $10.2 million and $10.3 million, respectively, then his remaining salary is paid over five years (two seasons times two, plus one), in even amounts of $4.1 million per year.
If the player is waived from September 1 to June 30, then the current season is paid per the normal payment schedule, and any remaining years are stretched over twice the number of years remaining plus one as described above. For example, if the player is waived on December 1 with two seasons remaining on his contract at $10.2 million and $10.5 million, respectively, then the current season (at $10.2 million) is paid normally, and the final season (at $10.5 million) is stretched over three years (one season times two, plus one) and paid in even amounts of $3.5 million per year.

Source is here: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q64

But it didn't say anything about it having a limit as far as the number of players you could use it on. Did you read that somewhere else?

NardDogNation wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:If we did, we'd have a cap hold of $23 million, not including Melo's contract, which would in effect leave us with $33 million in cap space. Can you say, "HELLOOOOOO LeBron!!!!!!"?

You can only use the stretch provision on one player who is on the active roster, I believe. I think once that player's contract comes off the books or is traded or what have you, a team can then stretch another player.

EDIT: Actually its more complicated than even that:

Individually negotiated revisions to the payment schedule are not allowed for contracts signed or extended under the current CBA2. For these contracts or extensions the remaining guaranteed salary for a waived player is "stretched" and paid in equal amounts over a greater time span, as follows:

If the player is waived from July 1 to August 31, then his remaining salary is paid over twice the number of years remaining on his contract, plus one. For example, if the player is waived on August 1 with two seasons remaining on his contract at $10.2 million and $10.3 million, respectively, then his remaining salary is paid over five years (two seasons times two, plus one), in even amounts of $4.1 million per year.
If the player is waived from September 1 to June 30, then the current season is paid per the normal payment schedule, and any remaining years are stretched over twice the number of years remaining plus one as described above. For example, if the player is waived on December 1 with two seasons remaining on his contract at $10.2 million and $10.5 million, respectively, then the current season (at $10.2 million) is paid normally, and the final season (at $10.5 million) is stretched over three years (one season times two, plus one) and paid in even amounts of $3.5 million per year.

Source is here: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q64

But it didn't say anything about it having a limit as far as the number of players you could use it on. Did you read that somewhere else?

I thought I had, I'm looking for the link now. I could he wrong too or am misremembering. Let me try to find it.

EDIT: OK, I think i was getting amnesty rules and stretch provision rules jumbled in my head. To use the stretch provision it looks like a team can only use it on players they waive or cut. Not players who remain on the team. Again, this contract language/legalese is far from my expertise in intreping so if someone here can come In and clear it up id love to hear how it all works in laymans terms.

Apologies for the confusion....

H1AND1 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:If we did, we'd have a cap hold of $23 million, not including Melo's contract, which would in effect leave us with $33 million in cap space. Can you say, "HELLOOOOOO LeBron!!!!!!"?

You can only use the stretch provision on one player who is on the active roster, I believe. I think once that player's contract comes off the books or is traded or what have you, a team can then stretch another player.

EDIT: Actually its more complicated than even that:

Individually negotiated revisions to the payment schedule are not allowed for contracts signed or extended under the current CBA2. For these contracts or extensions the remaining guaranteed salary for a waived player is "stretched" and paid in equal amounts over a greater time span, as follows:

If the player is waived from July 1 to August 31, then his remaining salary is paid over twice the number of years remaining on his contract, plus one. For example, if the player is waived on August 1 with two seasons remaining on his contract at $10.2 million and $10.3 million, respectively, then his remaining salary is paid over five years (two seasons times two, plus one), in even amounts of $4.1 million per year.
If the player is waived from September 1 to June 30, then the current season is paid per the normal payment schedule, and any remaining years are stretched over twice the number of years remaining plus one as described above. For example, if the player is waived on December 1 with two seasons remaining on his contract at $10.2 million and $10.5 million, respectively, then the current season (at $10.2 million) is paid normally, and the final season (at $10.5 million) is stretched over three years (one season times two, plus one) and paid in even amounts of $3.5 million per year.

Source is here: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q64

But it didn't say anything about it having a limit as far as the number of players you could use it on. Did you read that somewhere else?

I thought I had, I'm looking for the link now. I could he wrong too or am misremembering. Let me try to find it.

EDIT: OK, I think i was getting amnesty rules and stretch provision rules jumbled in my head. To use the stretch provision it looks like a team can only use it on players they waive or cut. Not players who remain on the team. Again, this contract language/legalese is far from my expertise in intreping so if someone here can come In and clear it up id love to hear how it all works in laymans terms.

Apologies for the confusion....

Dude, no apologies. You clearly know more about this stuff than I do, so it's appreciated. Deep down, I know there has to be some hitch that would prevent us from waiving our entire roster. It just sounds too absurd to be possible.....but if it is possible, HOLY SHIT! We could turn this offseason on its head. I've already started thinking of several trades we could do to lower our payroll, which would, in turn, lower our cap holds from the players we'd use the stretch provision on. If they work, we could free up $45 million in cap space (not including Melo).