Knicks · Get Eric Bledsoe, Send Dalembert & Larkin to Phoenix (page 4)
STATMELO wrote:NardDogNation wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Phoenix is desperate for a Center. Netting Dalembert is pretty good. Hell of a lot cheaper and more productive than Tyson.Phoenix gets out of paying Bledsoe when they already have dragic
& Get their starting center...so productive that the Mavericks just traded him for Tyson to have the right to have the right to pay Raymond Felton? I think not.
Samuel Dalembert is a fringe ball player at this point in his career, which is why he's been bouncing around the league for little more than a fraction of the midlevel exception. In contrast, Kendrick Perkins is due to make $9 million this season and I'm a better 5 man than he is. The Suns are not doing this trade.
Clearly you haven't seen many Mavericks games, Dalembert is a productive player at this point he's better than Tyson Chandler on both ends. Only reason Mavericks traded him is because they are so hell-bent on getting Tyson back. Tyson still has the reputation of an elite defensive anchor when he hasn't been that in years.In fact Josh Smith, Kevin Garnett, LeBron James among others had cases for DPoY in '12 over Tyson.
Re-read what you wrote and then explain to me how that makes sense? The Mavs purposely made themselves worse so they could walk down memory lane with a dude they only had for a year? How arrogant do you have to be to presume a team with a decent reputation like the Mavs would do something like that?
newyorknewyork wrote:gunsnewing wrote:tkf wrote:Knixkik wrote:tkf wrote:Knixkik wrote:tkf wrote:what I do find amazing is that tyson and asik had similar contracts.. yet the pelicans got a first round pick for asik... Perceived value I guess... wowLarkin is the value of a 1st round pick. Plus we got 2 other picks. And replaced Felton with Calderon who's a better player and on a better contract relative to his production. I think we got way more for chandler than they did for Asik.
Unless I read your statement wrong. Did you mean you are surprised they got 'only' a first round pick? Because we got way more than that.
the rockets got a first round pick and didn't have to take any junk back.. that is a more value deal.. they got rid of huge contract and got a pick..remember how people wee saying those poison pill deals would be hard to move? more is a beast, dude knows how to deal..
Larkin could not get playing time behind calderon and devin harris who broke his toe...
we didn't get more because we had to eat into our 2015 and beyond salary...
Yes but we got an easier contract to move. We gave up junk in Felton, saved money this summer, and got back many assets. When you get rid of the most difficult contract to move, and get back the value of 1 first round pick and 2 second round picks that's great. I would rather get all that plus get rid of Felton than just get back 1 future pick for Tyson.
I would have been happy with chandler for a later first or multiple second round picks and taking no salary, then taking on more future salary... we are taking on more than 5 mil in salary in 2015.. I mean wasn't that war cry around here... 2015 free agency?
what I find funny about this kind of reasoning now is that people justified throwing away picks to get rid of novaks 4 million dollars per year... do you now see where I am coming from? and guess what also.. the 2016 pick is higher than any pick we have gotten back so far...
Haha I know what you mean. I'm allowed to enjoy the two second era because I also predicted the same thing about how quickly the tune will change lol
Not many people like the fact that Calderon's contract runs into 2015 free agency. But at the same time Phil Jackson is running the ship now. A lot of people view Jose Calderon as absolutely perfect for the triangle offense. Calderon might have been a player Jackson wanted regardless of the 2015 cap space which Raymond Felton was going to eat 4.2 mil out of anyway.
Whoever those people are, they are wrong about Calderon being perfect for the triangle. The dude's bread and butter is the pick and roll, which is de-emphasized in the triangle. So in effect, you're paying a 33 year old guard whose game is about to plummet $22 million over the next 3 years TO NOT DO WHAT HE IS BEST AT. How does that make sense?
StarksEwing1 wrote:gunsnewing wrote:I think everybody that is upset about calderon's contract is going overboard. Yes I dont love teh contract but its not like he makes amare/bargs money. We will still have plenty of cap spacetkf wrote:Knixkik wrote:tkf wrote:Knixkik wrote:tkf wrote:what I do find amazing is that tyson and asik had similar contracts.. yet the pelicans got a first round pick for asik... Perceived value I guess... wowLarkin is the value of a 1st round pick. Plus we got 2 other picks. And replaced Felton with Calderon who's a better player and on a better contract relative to his production. I think we got way more for chandler than they did for Asik.
Unless I read your statement wrong. Did you mean you are surprised they got 'only' a first round pick? Because we got way more than that.
the rockets got a first round pick and didn't have to take any junk back.. that is a more value deal.. they got rid of huge contract and got a pick..remember how people wee saying those poison pill deals would be hard to move? more is a beast, dude knows how to deal..
Larkin could not get playing time behind calderon and devin harris who broke his toe...
we didn't get more because we had to eat into our 2015 and beyond salary...
Yes but we got an easier contract to move. We gave up junk in Felton, saved money this summer, and got back many assets. When you get rid of the most difficult contract to move, and get back the value of 1 first round pick and 2 second round picks that's great. I would rather get all that plus get rid of Felton than just get back 1 future pick for Tyson.
I would have been happy with chandler for a later first or multiple second round picks and taking no salary, then taking on more future salary... we are taking on more than 5 mil in salary in 2015.. I mean wasn't that war cry around here... 2015 free agency?
what I find funny about this kind of reasoning now is that people justified throwing away picks to get rid of novaks 4 million dollars per year... do you now see where I am coming from? and guess what also.. the 2016 pick is higher than any pick we have gotten back so far...
Haha I know what you mean. I'm allowed to enjoy the two second era because I also predicted the same thing about how quickly the tune will change lol
There are 15 active roster spots on a NBA team and Jose Calderon will make 1/9 of the cap. You really think that a guy like that is worth it when guys like Mo Williams, Jarrett Jack (who started ahead of him at times), Darren Collision, Patty Mills, Reggie Jackson, etc., made less than half of that last season? We would've been better served at adding Nate Robinson and/or Aaron Brooks at the minimum than this guy.
You are underestimating Calderon's shooting ability. Not many like him in today's NBA. Look at Parker & Ginobili and the effect they have on the spurs
gunsnewing wrote:Phil might have hit a home run with this deal. So much depth, wittiness & flexibility to the deal.Not bad for a "Novice!"
Guns...
It's the ZenMaster at work!
Don't ha love it?
Past legit stars Melon, & cast Amare, JR
Zen Phil is making something out of nothing regarding big trade
Read NyPost though Jose is 7mil tie Mr Zen still saved or added 5.2mil decrease to 2015 cap space.
We got guards with some value as opposed to PG /ray and overrated Center with declining or 0 value
Mr Zenmaster got DJ respect
A plan NY finally has a plan, Derrick F. Will define roles
NardDogNation wrote:then please tell me what you do with Ray Felton who makes $4mm then? Do you forget about him? Because he was the worst PG in the NBA last year. He defended nobody and is the albatross on our roster. Your options are cut him and pay him or trade him in a package. In this case that package got us a better starter who is good floor general and one of the leagues best sharp shooters.StarksEwing1 wrote:gunsnewing wrote:I think everybody that is upset about calderon's contract is going overboard. Yes I dont love teh contract but its not like he makes amare/bargs money. We will still have plenty of cap spacetkf wrote:Knixkik wrote:tkf wrote:Knixkik wrote:tkf wrote:what I do find amazing is that tyson and asik had similar contracts.. yet the pelicans got a first round pick for asik... Perceived value I guess... wowLarkin is the value of a 1st round pick. Plus we got 2 other picks. And replaced Felton with Calderon who's a better player and on a better contract relative to his production. I think we got way more for chandler than they did for Asik.
Unless I read your statement wrong. Did you mean you are surprised they got 'only' a first round pick? Because we got way more than that.
the rockets got a first round pick and didn't have to take any junk back.. that is a more value deal.. they got rid of huge contract and got a pick..remember how people wee saying those poison pill deals would be hard to move? more is a beast, dude knows how to deal..
Larkin could not get playing time behind calderon and devin harris who broke his toe...
we didn't get more because we had to eat into our 2015 and beyond salary...
Yes but we got an easier contract to move. We gave up junk in Felton, saved money this summer, and got back many assets. When you get rid of the most difficult contract to move, and get back the value of 1 first round pick and 2 second round picks that's great. I would rather get all that plus get rid of Felton than just get back 1 future pick for Tyson.
I would have been happy with chandler for a later first or multiple second round picks and taking no salary, then taking on more future salary... we are taking on more than 5 mil in salary in 2015.. I mean wasn't that war cry around here... 2015 free agency?
what I find funny about this kind of reasoning now is that people justified throwing away picks to get rid of novaks 4 million dollars per year... do you now see where I am coming from? and guess what also.. the 2016 pick is higher than any pick we have gotten back so far...
Haha I know what you mean. I'm allowed to enjoy the two second era because I also predicted the same thing about how quickly the tune will change lol
There are 15 active roster spots on a NBA team and Jose Calderon will make 1/9 of the cap. You really think that a guy like that is worth it when guys like Mo Williams, Jarrett Jack (who started ahead of him at times), Darren Collision, Patty Mills, Reggie Jackson, etc., made less than half of that last season? We would've been better served at adding Nate Robinson and/or Aaron Brooks at the minimum than this guy.
So the guys you mention arent really fair. Would you rather have Paddy Mills or Collison next year at $2mm (Mills will get closer to $5mm) PLUS Felton hanging around?
You cant just say Collison at $2mm > Calderon at $7mm when its really
Collison + Felton at $6mm vs. Calderon at $7mm
Forget Ellington. He's another Murray, but Larkin is solid prospect and we have seen small guys (Brooks, Isiah Thomas) play good basketball in league.
Unless you really think Chandler (did you watch him last year? No offense, never healthy) is really worth much I think your wrong on this trade. Asik was traded for a protected pick in next year's draft and he's younger, better and more durable than Chandler this point. Not sure what the expectation was?
NardDogNation wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Larkin, dalembert, Ellington for mayo works. Does Phil go there?...only if we dump Calderon's deal on them and/or bring back Brandon Knight with Mayo.
Why?
Are you stuck on stale names Mayo, Bknight while you r over-valuing the likes of Raymond Felton and Mr Tyson Chandler?
The aged Jose C., has done more in the NBA in past 2-3 seasons than guard wannabe Raymond Felton has done in his entire 9 year NBA career.
Oops I forgot Ray did something he did that NY gun activity threat to an innocent woman whom then I believe was his wife.
nope no Nah I don't consider this an accomplishment 
NardDogNation wrote:nixluva wrote:Let's get one thing straight... Shane Larkin is a legit prospect. He's no Fred Jones!!! If you ever saw Larkin play you'd know that he's a much better prospect than Jones. Larkin has legit NBA talent. I wanted the Knicks to get this kid in the draft and i'm happy to see we get a chance to see if we can develop him.RELEVANT ADVANCED STATS: 3.4% steal percentage. Impressive for a guy his size.SB NATION BIG BOARD POSITION: No. 30.
NBA CEILING: Isaiah Thomas (the Kings' version).
NBA FLOOR: D.J. Augustin.
JONATHAN TJARKS' ANALYSIS
Shane Larkin emerged on the national scene this season, leading Miami to the highest ranking in school history. After averaging 14 points, 4.5 assists and four rebounds on 47 percent shooting, he jumped while the iron was hot as a sophomore.
Jonathan Tjarks' ranking of the top prospects in the 2013 NBA Draft
At 5'11 and 170 with a 5'11 wingspan, Larkin will be one of the smallest players in the NBA. The only way a guy with that size can make the league is if he has essentially no holes in his game. He is a high-level shooter and ball-handler who ran a ton of pick-and-roll for Miami. He will be a good offensive player, although bigger and longer defenders will take a toll on his efficiency numbers. The questions for Larkin come on defense. Nearly every guard he faces will be able to shoot over the top of his head. As a result, he may be better as a situational player coming off the bench.The D.J. Augustin comp sticks with me when I think of Larkin. Don't let Augustin's NBA career fool you. He was a first-team All-American at Texas who had better stats than Larkin on an even better team. At their sizes, it's just hard to be a consistent player in the NBA. That may be Larkin's downfall at the next level.
IMO there have been many small PG's that have been effective on the NBA level. There's obviously more to it than size. I think this kid could be at a Jameer Nelson level with more hops.
Uh, Fred Jones was a legit prospect. It's why he went 14th in his draft, ahead of dudes like Tayshaun Prince. I'm not sold on Larkin, especially with his health having been what it is. We could easily get a PG that is as good or better in this draft in the 20's without having to take on Calderon's contract. Hell, Omer Asik's mediocre ass got a first round pick from a lottery team, the Hornets. Needless to say, Larkin doesn't get me excited about losing Tyson Chandler.
Losing Tyson chandler?
You are hilarious
Let me tell you something Tyson Chandler does NOT wanna be here in NY. Look that up!
Where is Mr. Bippity? When ya need him
However, I feel he fits best in an uptempo system, with a PG that pushes consistently with the ability to penetrate and finish, spread the floor, facilitate, and has an HIGH IQ with smart players/with the ability to shoot/spread the floor
StarksEwing1 wrote:gunsnewing wrote:I think everybody that is upset about calderon's contract is going overboard. Yes I dont love teh contract but its not like he makes amare/bargs money. We will still have plenty of cap spacetkf wrote:Knixkik wrote:tkf wrote:Knixkik wrote:tkf wrote:what I do find amazing is that tyson and asik had similar contracts.. yet the pelicans got a first round pick for asik... Perceived value I guess... wowLarkin is the value of a 1st round pick. Plus we got 2 other picks. And replaced Felton with Calderon who's a better player and on a better contract relative to his production. I think we got way more for chandler than they did for Asik.
Unless I read your statement wrong. Did you mean you are surprised they got 'only' a first round pick? Because we got way more than that.
the rockets got a first round pick and didn't have to take any junk back.. that is a more value deal.. they got rid of huge contract and got a pick..remember how people wee saying those poison pill deals would be hard to move? more is a beast, dude knows how to deal..
Larkin could not get playing time behind calderon and devin harris who broke his toe...
we didn't get more because we had to eat into our 2015 and beyond salary...
Yes but we got an easier contract to move. We gave up junk in Felton, saved money this summer, and got back many assets. When you get rid of the most difficult contract to move, and get back the value of 1 first round pick and 2 second round picks that's great. I would rather get all that plus get rid of Felton than just get back 1 future pick for Tyson.
I would have been happy with chandler for a later first or multiple second round picks and taking no salary, then taking on more future salary... we are taking on more than 5 mil in salary in 2015.. I mean wasn't that war cry around here... 2015 free agency?
what I find funny about this kind of reasoning now is that people justified throwing away picks to get rid of novaks 4 million dollars per year... do you now see where I am coming from? and guess what also.. the 2016 pick is higher than any pick we have gotten back so far...
Haha I know what you mean. I'm allowed to enjoy the two second era because I also predicted the same thing about how quickly the tune will change lol
Exactly, plus he isn't Bargnani, Stoudemire, Felton, etc. His contract is easy to move because he can play. If we need to trade him we can.
NardDogNation wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:gunsnewing wrote:tkf wrote:Knixkik wrote:tkf wrote:Knixkik wrote:tkf wrote:what I do find amazing is that tyson and asik had similar contracts.. yet the pelicans got a first round pick for asik... Perceived value I guess... wowLarkin is the value of a 1st round pick. Plus we got 2 other picks. And replaced Felton with Calderon who's a better player and on a better contract relative to his production. I think we got way more for chandler than they did for Asik.
Unless I read your statement wrong. Did you mean you are surprised they got 'only' a first round pick? Because we got way more than that.
the rockets got a first round pick and didn't have to take any junk back.. that is a more value deal.. they got rid of huge contract and got a pick..remember how people wee saying those poison pill deals would be hard to move? more is a beast, dude knows how to deal..
Larkin could not get playing time behind calderon and devin harris who broke his toe...
we didn't get more because we had to eat into our 2015 and beyond salary...
Yes but we got an easier contract to move. We gave up junk in Felton, saved money this summer, and got back many assets. When you get rid of the most difficult contract to move, and get back the value of 1 first round pick and 2 second round picks that's great. I would rather get all that plus get rid of Felton than just get back 1 future pick for Tyson.
I would have been happy with chandler for a later first or multiple second round picks and taking no salary, then taking on more future salary... we are taking on more than 5 mil in salary in 2015.. I mean wasn't that war cry around here... 2015 free agency?
what I find funny about this kind of reasoning now is that people justified throwing away picks to get rid of novaks 4 million dollars per year... do you now see where I am coming from? and guess what also.. the 2016 pick is higher than any pick we have gotten back so far...
Haha I know what you mean. I'm allowed to enjoy the two second era because I also predicted the same thing about how quickly the tune will change lol
Not many people like the fact that Calderon's contract runs into 2015 free agency. But at the same time Phil Jackson is running the ship now. A lot of people view Jose Calderon as absolutely perfect for the triangle offense. Calderon might have been a player Jackson wanted regardless of the 2015 cap space which Raymond Felton was going to eat 4.2 mil out of anyway.
Whoever those people are, they are wrong about Calderon being perfect for the triangle. The dude's bread and butter is the pick and roll, which is de-emphasized in the triangle. So in effect, you're paying a 33 year old guard whose game is about to plummet $22 million over the next 3 years TO NOT DO WHAT HE IS BEST AT. How does that make sense?
like john paxon calderon can hit the three, he will be taking a lot of open jumpers hopefully... but I agree, pick and roll is his bread and butter.... the key is calderon is a pretty good shooter...
NardDogNation wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:gunsnewing wrote:I think everybody that is upset about calderon's contract is going overboard. Yes I dont love teh contract but its not like he makes amare/bargs money. We will still have plenty of cap spacetkf wrote:Knixkik wrote:tkf wrote:Knixkik wrote:tkf wrote:what I do find amazing is that tyson and asik had similar contracts.. yet the pelicans got a first round pick for asik... Perceived value I guess... wowLarkin is the value of a 1st round pick. Plus we got 2 other picks. And replaced Felton with Calderon who's a better player and on a better contract relative to his production. I think we got way more for chandler than they did for Asik.
Unless I read your statement wrong. Did you mean you are surprised they got 'only' a first round pick? Because we got way more than that.
the rockets got a first round pick and didn't have to take any junk back.. that is a more value deal.. they got rid of huge contract and got a pick..remember how people wee saying those poison pill deals would be hard to move? more is a beast, dude knows how to deal..
Larkin could not get playing time behind calderon and devin harris who broke his toe...
we didn't get more because we had to eat into our 2015 and beyond salary...
Yes but we got an easier contract to move. We gave up junk in Felton, saved money this summer, and got back many assets. When you get rid of the most difficult contract to move, and get back the value of 1 first round pick and 2 second round picks that's great. I would rather get all that plus get rid of Felton than just get back 1 future pick for Tyson.
I would have been happy with chandler for a later first or multiple second round picks and taking no salary, then taking on more future salary... we are taking on more than 5 mil in salary in 2015.. I mean wasn't that war cry around here... 2015 free agency?
what I find funny about this kind of reasoning now is that people justified throwing away picks to get rid of novaks 4 million dollars per year... do you now see where I am coming from? and guess what also.. the 2016 pick is higher than any pick we have gotten back so far...
Haha I know what you mean. I'm allowed to enjoy the two second era because I also predicted the same thing about how quickly the tune will change lol
There are 15 active roster spots on a NBA team and Jose Calderon will make 1/9 of the cap. You really think that a guy like that is worth it when guys like Mo Williams, Jarrett Jack (who started ahead of him at times), Darren Collision, Patty Mills, Reggie Jackson, etc., made less than half of that last season? We would've been better served at adding Nate Robinson and/or Aaron Brooks at the minimum than this guy.
the problem is our tax situation it makes getting those guys very hard.. which is why I didn't like that bargnani deal..... it limited us getting those types of players when you factor in the tax situation we were in.
.
NardDogNation wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:gunsnewing wrote:tkf wrote:Knixkik wrote:tkf wrote:Knixkik wrote:tkf wrote:what I do find amazing is that tyson and asik had similar contracts.. yet the pelicans got a first round pick for asik... Perceived value I guess... wowLarkin is the value of a 1st round pick. Plus we got 2 other picks. And replaced Felton with Calderon who's a better player and on a better contract relative to his production. I think we got way more for chandler than they did for Asik.
Unless I read your statement wrong. Did you mean you are surprised they got 'only' a first round pick? Because we got way more than that.
the rockets got a first round pick and didn't have to take any junk back.. that is a more value deal.. they got rid of huge contract and got a pick..remember how people wee saying those poison pill deals would be hard to move? more is a beast, dude knows how to deal..
Larkin could not get playing time behind calderon and devin harris who broke his toe...
we didn't get more because we had to eat into our 2015 and beyond salary...
Yes but we got an easier contract to move. We gave up junk in Felton, saved money this summer, and got back many assets. When you get rid of the most difficult contract to move, and get back the value of 1 first round pick and 2 second round picks that's great. I would rather get all that plus get rid of Felton than just get back 1 future pick for Tyson.
I would have been happy with chandler for a later first or multiple second round picks and taking no salary, then taking on more future salary... we are taking on more than 5 mil in salary in 2015.. I mean wasn't that war cry around here... 2015 free agency?
what I find funny about this kind of reasoning now is that people justified throwing away picks to get rid of novaks 4 million dollars per year... do you now see where I am coming from? and guess what also.. the 2016 pick is higher than any pick we have gotten back so far...
Haha I know what you mean. I'm allowed to enjoy the two second era because I also predicted the same thing about how quickly the tune will change lol
Not many people like the fact that Calderon's contract runs into 2015 free agency. But at the same time Phil Jackson is running the ship now. A lot of people view Jose Calderon as absolutely perfect for the triangle offense. Calderon might have been a player Jackson wanted regardless of the 2015 cap space which Raymond Felton was going to eat 4.2 mil out of anyway.
Whoever those people are, they are wrong about Calderon being perfect for the triangle. The dude's bread and butter is the pick and roll, which is de-emphasized in the triangle. So in effect, you're paying a 33 year old guard whose game is about to plummet $22 million over the next 3 years TO NOT DO WHAT HE IS BEST AT. How does that make sense?
Calderon is a crazy efficient shooter. I'd argue he is just as good a shooter as he is at the pick and roll...Take a look at this shot chart titled "one of the best pure shooters in the NBA"
http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2013/0712/gra...
DJMUSIC wrote:NardDogNation wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Larkin, dalembert, Ellington for mayo works. Does Phil go there?...only if we dump Calderon's deal on them and/or bring back Brandon Knight with Mayo.
Why?
Are you stuck on stale names Mayo, Bknight while you r over-valuing the likes of Raymond Felton and Mr Tyson Chandler?The aged Jose C., has done more in the NBA in past 2-3 seasons than guard wannabe Raymond Felton has done in his entire 9 year NBA career.
Oops I forgot Ray did something he did that NY gun activity threat to an innocent woman whom then I believe was his wife.
nope no Nah I don't consider this an accomplishment
You fabricated an argument I wasn't making. I don't like either Tyson Chandler or Raymond Felton but that doesn't mean I'd trade them for any and everything. I've widely criticized Felton as being the worst PG in the league but that didn't mean he wasn't tradeable. He only had 2 years and $16 million on his deal. Was it that unfathomable to think he could be traded with $3 million as a salary dump in 2015?
DJMUSIC wrote:NardDogNation wrote:nixluva wrote:Let's get one thing straight... Shane Larkin is a legit prospect. He's no Fred Jones!!! If you ever saw Larkin play you'd know that he's a much better prospect than Jones. Larkin has legit NBA talent. I wanted the Knicks to get this kid in the draft and i'm happy to see we get a chance to see if we can develop him.RELEVANT ADVANCED STATS: 3.4% steal percentage. Impressive for a guy his size.SB NATION BIG BOARD POSITION: No. 30.
NBA CEILING: Isaiah Thomas (the Kings' version).
NBA FLOOR: D.J. Augustin.
JONATHAN TJARKS' ANALYSIS
Shane Larkin emerged on the national scene this season, leading Miami to the highest ranking in school history. After averaging 14 points, 4.5 assists and four rebounds on 47 percent shooting, he jumped while the iron was hot as a sophomore.
Jonathan Tjarks' ranking of the top prospects in the 2013 NBA Draft
At 5'11 and 170 with a 5'11 wingspan, Larkin will be one of the smallest players in the NBA. The only way a guy with that size can make the league is if he has essentially no holes in his game. He is a high-level shooter and ball-handler who ran a ton of pick-and-roll for Miami. He will be a good offensive player, although bigger and longer defenders will take a toll on his efficiency numbers. The questions for Larkin come on defense. Nearly every guard he faces will be able to shoot over the top of his head. As a result, he may be better as a situational player coming off the bench.The D.J. Augustin comp sticks with me when I think of Larkin. Don't let Augustin's NBA career fool you. He was a first-team All-American at Texas who had better stats than Larkin on an even better team. At their sizes, it's just hard to be a consistent player in the NBA. That may be Larkin's downfall at the next level.
IMO there have been many small PG's that have been effective on the NBA level. There's obviously more to it than size. I think this kid could be at a Jameer Nelson level with more hops.
Uh, Fred Jones was a legit prospect. It's why he went 14th in his draft, ahead of dudes like Tayshaun Prince. I'm not sold on Larkin, especially with his health having been what it is. We could easily get a PG that is as good or better in this draft in the 20's without having to take on Calderon's contract. Hell, Omer Asik's mediocre ass got a first round pick from a lottery team, the Hornets. Needless to say, Larkin doesn't get me excited about losing Tyson Chandler.
Losing Tyson chandler?
You are hilariousLet me tell you something Tyson Chandler does NOT wanna be here in NY. Look that up!
Where is Mr. Bippity? When ya need him
Omer Asik didn't want to be in Houston either. The Rockets managed to get an $8 million trade exception for him AND a 1st round pick from a perennial lottery team. I don't care for Tyson Chandler but we should've done better in maximizing Tyson Chandler's trade value.
NardDogNation wrote:DJMUSIC wrote:NardDogNation wrote:nixluva wrote:Let's get one thing straight... Shane Larkin is a legit prospect. He's no Fred Jones!!! If you ever saw Larkin play you'd know that he's a much better prospect than Jones. Larkin has legit NBA talent. I wanted the Knicks to get this kid in the draft and i'm happy to see we get a chance to see if we can develop him.RELEVANT ADVANCED STATS: 3.4% steal percentage. Impressive for a guy his size.SB NATION BIG BOARD POSITION: No. 30.
NBA CEILING: Isaiah Thomas (the Kings' version).
NBA FLOOR: D.J. Augustin.
JONATHAN TJARKS' ANALYSIS
Shane Larkin emerged on the national scene this season, leading Miami to the highest ranking in school history. After averaging 14 points, 4.5 assists and four rebounds on 47 percent shooting, he jumped while the iron was hot as a sophomore.
Jonathan Tjarks' ranking of the top prospects in the 2013 NBA Draft
At 5'11 and 170 with a 5'11 wingspan, Larkin will be one of the smallest players in the NBA. The only way a guy with that size can make the league is if he has essentially no holes in his game. He is a high-level shooter and ball-handler who ran a ton of pick-and-roll for Miami. He will be a good offensive player, although bigger and longer defenders will take a toll on his efficiency numbers. The questions for Larkin come on defense. Nearly every guard he faces will be able to shoot over the top of his head. As a result, he may be better as a situational player coming off the bench.The D.J. Augustin comp sticks with me when I think of Larkin. Don't let Augustin's NBA career fool you. He was a first-team All-American at Texas who had better stats than Larkin on an even better team. At their sizes, it's just hard to be a consistent player in the NBA. That may be Larkin's downfall at the next level.
IMO there have been many small PG's that have been effective on the NBA level. There's obviously more to it than size. I think this kid could be at a Jameer Nelson level with more hops.
Uh, Fred Jones was a legit prospect. It's why he went 14th in his draft, ahead of dudes like Tayshaun Prince. I'm not sold on Larkin, especially with his health having been what it is. We could easily get a PG that is as good or better in this draft in the 20's without having to take on Calderon's contract. Hell, Omer Asik's mediocre ass got a first round pick from a lottery team, the Hornets. Needless to say, Larkin doesn't get me excited about losing Tyson Chandler.
Losing Tyson chandler?
You are hilariousLet me tell you something Tyson Chandler does NOT wanna be here in NY. Look that up!
Where is Mr. Bippity? When ya need himOmer Asik didn't want to be in Houston either. The Rockets managed to get an $8 million trade exception for him AND a 1st round pick from a perennial lottery team. I don't care for Tyson Chandler but we should've done better in maximizing Tyson Chandler's trade value.
They took Raymond from off our hands you take that deal and run.
No offense but I'm with Phil on this one
fishmike wrote:NardDogNation wrote:then please tell me what you do with Ray Felton who makes $4mm then? Do you forget about him? Because he was the worst PG in the NBA last year. He defended nobody and is the albatross on our roster. Your options are cut him and pay him or trade him in a package. In this case that package got us a better starter who is good floor general and one of the leagues best sharp shooters.StarksEwing1 wrote:gunsnewing wrote:I think everybody that is upset about calderon's contract is going overboard. Yes I dont love teh contract but its not like he makes amare/bargs money. We will still have plenty of cap spacetkf wrote:Knixkik wrote:tkf wrote:Knixkik wrote:tkf wrote:what I do find amazing is that tyson and asik had similar contracts.. yet the pelicans got a first round pick for asik... Perceived value I guess... wowLarkin is the value of a 1st round pick. Plus we got 2 other picks. And replaced Felton with Calderon who's a better player and on a better contract relative to his production. I think we got way more for chandler than they did for Asik.
Unless I read your statement wrong. Did you mean you are surprised they got 'only' a first round pick? Because we got way more than that.
the rockets got a first round pick and didn't have to take any junk back.. that is a more value deal.. they got rid of huge contract and got a pick..remember how people wee saying those poison pill deals would be hard to move? more is a beast, dude knows how to deal..
Larkin could not get playing time behind calderon and devin harris who broke his toe...
we didn't get more because we had to eat into our 2015 and beyond salary...
Yes but we got an easier contract to move. We gave up junk in Felton, saved money this summer, and got back many assets. When you get rid of the most difficult contract to move, and get back the value of 1 first round pick and 2 second round picks that's great. I would rather get all that plus get rid of Felton than just get back 1 future pick for Tyson.
I would have been happy with chandler for a later first or multiple second round picks and taking no salary, then taking on more future salary... we are taking on more than 5 mil in salary in 2015.. I mean wasn't that war cry around here... 2015 free agency?
what I find funny about this kind of reasoning now is that people justified throwing away picks to get rid of novaks 4 million dollars per year... do you now see where I am coming from? and guess what also.. the 2016 pick is higher than any pick we have gotten back so far...
Haha I know what you mean. I'm allowed to enjoy the two second era because I also predicted the same thing about how quickly the tune will change lol
There are 15 active roster spots on a NBA team and Jose Calderon will make 1/9 of the cap. You really think that a guy like that is worth it when guys like Mo Williams, Jarrett Jack (who started ahead of him at times), Darren Collision, Patty Mills, Reggie Jackson, etc., made less than half of that last season? We would've been better served at adding Nate Robinson and/or Aaron Brooks at the minimum than this guy.
So the guys you mention arent really fair. Would you rather have Paddy Mills or Collison next year at $2mm (Mills will get closer to $5mm) PLUS Felton hanging around?
You cant just say Collison at $2mm > Calderon at $7mm when its really
Collison + Felton at $6mm vs. Calderon at $7mmForget Ellington. He's another Murray, but Larkin is solid prospect and we have seen small guys (Brooks, Isiah Thomas) play good basketball in league.
Unless you really think Chandler (did you watch him last year? No offense, never healthy) is really worth much I think your wrong on this trade. Asik was traded for a protected pick in next year's draft and he's younger, better and more durable than Chandler this point. Not sure what the expectation was?
By virtue of Felton being the worst PG in the league, we could have easily upgraded the position with a minimum salaried player. Hell, we could've traded Shumpert for Collision just this past season, so upgrading the position was not some impossible feat.
The fact is that Felton only has 2 years and $16 million left on his contract. He's an awful player but by the last year of the deal, his play becomes irrelevant and his value as an expirer comes into play. Considering that he'd only be making $4 million, is it that unreasonable to presume that we could've moved him and $3 million in a salary dump? Instead, what we did is acquire a 33 year old, owed $22 million (unless Phil already has something up his sleeve). That isn't smart managing.
For all of Tyson Chandler's flaws, he was a respected player around the league, which is evident by the recognition he gets for being the key piece to the Mavericks championship run and his DPOY award. You don't sell low on that, especially when the worst case scenario is that he walks away for nothing (which ain't all that bad considering our circumstances). If the offers we were getting sucked, we should've held onto him and pumped up his value to move him at the deadline. Do you have any doubt that he would've played very well in his contract year, especially considering how well he played before getting injured last season?
At the moment, I just think the fanbase is happy to see any kind of change because of how bad we were last season. But there is bad change and there is good change. With those factors considered, I think this is bad change and reminiscent of when we moved Zach Randolph and Jamal Crawford as they were peaking.
gunsnewing wrote:NardDogNation wrote:DJMUSIC wrote:NardDogNation wrote:nixluva wrote:Let's get one thing straight... Shane Larkin is a legit prospect. He's no Fred Jones!!! If you ever saw Larkin play you'd know that he's a much better prospect than Jones. Larkin has legit NBA talent. I wanted the Knicks to get this kid in the draft and i'm happy to see we get a chance to see if we can develop him.RELEVANT ADVANCED STATS: 3.4% steal percentage. Impressive for a guy his size.SB NATION BIG BOARD POSITION: No. 30.
NBA CEILING: Isaiah Thomas (the Kings' version).
NBA FLOOR: D.J. Augustin.
JONATHAN TJARKS' ANALYSIS
Shane Larkin emerged on the national scene this season, leading Miami to the highest ranking in school history. After averaging 14 points, 4.5 assists and four rebounds on 47 percent shooting, he jumped while the iron was hot as a sophomore.
Jonathan Tjarks' ranking of the top prospects in the 2013 NBA Draft
At 5'11 and 170 with a 5'11 wingspan, Larkin will be one of the smallest players in the NBA. The only way a guy with that size can make the league is if he has essentially no holes in his game. He is a high-level shooter and ball-handler who ran a ton of pick-and-roll for Miami. He will be a good offensive player, although bigger and longer defenders will take a toll on his efficiency numbers. The questions for Larkin come on defense. Nearly every guard he faces will be able to shoot over the top of his head. As a result, he may be better as a situational player coming off the bench.The D.J. Augustin comp sticks with me when I think of Larkin. Don't let Augustin's NBA career fool you. He was a first-team All-American at Texas who had better stats than Larkin on an even better team. At their sizes, it's just hard to be a consistent player in the NBA. That may be Larkin's downfall at the next level.
IMO there have been many small PG's that have been effective on the NBA level. There's obviously more to it than size. I think this kid could be at a Jameer Nelson level with more hops.
Uh, Fred Jones was a legit prospect. It's why he went 14th in his draft, ahead of dudes like Tayshaun Prince. I'm not sold on Larkin, especially with his health having been what it is. We could easily get a PG that is as good or better in this draft in the 20's without having to take on Calderon's contract. Hell, Omer Asik's mediocre ass got a first round pick from a lottery team, the Hornets. Needless to say, Larkin doesn't get me excited about losing Tyson Chandler.
Losing Tyson chandler?
You are hilariousLet me tell you something Tyson Chandler does NOT wanna be here in NY. Look that up!
Where is Mr. Bippity? When ya need himOmer Asik didn't want to be in Houston either. The Rockets managed to get an $8 million trade exception for him AND a 1st round pick from a perennial lottery team. I don't care for Tyson Chandler but we should've done better in maximizing Tyson Chandler's trade value.
They took Raymond from off our hands you take that deal and run.
No offense but I'm with Phil on this one
I respect that but feel that we took Calderon off their hands too. Yes, Felton sucked but his contract was manageable. Like I said before, is it that unimaginable to package him in his last year with $3 million to dump on another team with cap space? We could've focused on getting better assets from Tyson and still gotten rid of Felton through this process. Like I said to another poster, I'll try to stop being a Debbie Downer because what is done is done BUT I suspect that there will be plenty more people in my camp by game 41. All we need is time to figure out how this will play out.
gunsnewing wrote:Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/herringwsj/status/481926677178884096
Click here to view the TweetOr maybe Lowry?
Whatcha think? Thanks Yellow!
bledsoe-- injury-prone, a little chubby i wonder about conditioning, and does he fit into the triangle? character? two-way player?