Jmpasq wrote:fishmike wrote:Jmpasq wrote:gunsnewing wrote:been saying the same thing for years azamatbagatov. It won't sink in until Melo is sitting on the bench in a suit in the same chair occupied by Mcdyess & Allan Houston and many others with 2-3yrs left on his contract. As the countdown on Melo's days as a knick and his expiring contract begins. We are not getting any younger. 41+ years since our last championship
yep you would think seeing the same thing happen over and over would eventually sink in. The Knicks should get ready for the players coming off rookie deals as their core pieces.Those contracts arent crippling like the super max deals. You can get 3 of those guys and still have room for a couple spare parts.
Yea man.. I mean look at what Will Chandler, Gallo and Mosgov (that equalls about $20mm) have accomplished. Maybe we should avoid all talent that might be expensive? How is Derrick Rose? You keep your talent. You keep your picks. You keep building. ITs not that hard.
Just say you dont want Melo. You dont like the guy, you would rather suck and be warm and cuddly with hope... why make stuff up about a guys health to make you feel better about not wanting him back.
I want him back at 16-18 not 25-30
When you out to eat do you ask for the porterhouse but ask only to pay the price of the sirloin? I mean cmon... take your feelings out of it and realize this price is set by the market.
fishmike wrote:Jmpasq wrote:fishmike wrote:Jmpasq wrote:gunsnewing wrote:been saying the same thing for years azamatbagatov. It won't sink in until Melo is sitting on the bench in a suit in the same chair occupied by Mcdyess & Allan Houston and many others with 2-3yrs left on his contract. As the countdown on Melo's days as a knick and his expiring contract begins. We are not getting any younger. 41+ years since our last championship
yep you would think seeing the same thing happen over and over would eventually sink in. The Knicks should get ready for the players coming off rookie deals as their core pieces.Those contracts arent crippling like the super max deals. You can get 3 of those guys and still have room for a couple spare parts.
Yea man.. I mean look at what Will Chandler, Gallo and Mosgov (that equalls about $20mm) have accomplished. Maybe we should avoid all talent that might be expensive? How is Derrick Rose? You keep your talent. You keep your picks. You keep building. ITs not that hard.
Just say you dont want Melo. You dont like the guy, you would rather suck and be warm and cuddly with hope... why make stuff up about a guys health to make you feel better about not wanting him back.
I want him back at 16-18 not 25-30
When you out to eat do you ask for the porterhouse but ask only to pay the price of the sirloin? I mean cmon... take your feelings out of it and realize this price is set by the market.
See this is the point everyone is trying to make fish. You seem to think eveyone hates Melo but thats not the case. Unfortunetly we live in a salary cap world so sacrifices need to be amde even by top players. I mean unless you get extremely lucky and get a player like Lebron or Durant. I mean i personally like Melo but i like the Knicks more and i wnat him to take less in order to have a better team longterm
fishmike wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:fishmike wrote:Jmpasq wrote:gunsnewing wrote:been saying the same thing for years azamatbagatov. It won't sink in until Melo is sitting on the bench in a suit in the same chair occupied by Mcdyess & Allan Houston and many others with 2-3yrs left on his contract. As the countdown on Melo's days as a knick and his expiring contract begins. We are not getting any younger. 41+ years since our last championship
yep you would think seeing the same thing happen over and over would eventually sink in. The Knicks should get ready for the players coming off rookie deals as their core pieces.Those contracts arent crippling like the super max deals. You can get 3 of those guys and still have room for a couple spare parts.
Yea man.. I mean look at what Will Chandler, Gallo and Mosgov (that equalls about $20mm) have accomplished. Maybe we should avoid all talent that might be expensive? How is Derrick Rose? You keep your talent. You keep your picks. You keep building. ITs not that hard.
Just say you dont want Melo. You dont like the guy, you would rather suck and be warm and cuddly with hope... why make stuff up about a guys health to make you feel better about not wanting him back.
Fish why do you get insulted if somene is a fraction critical with signing him to a mega deal at his age. i think the bring up some fair ponts. They arent bashing the guy they just are cncerned about the salary cap and potential risks if melo ets hurt which is vey possible in his 30's
Im not insulted at all. Not even a little. I just dont get why guys cant be honest. Why make stuff up? Melo missed 5 games last year. The year before when he did have to rest the shoulder he came back played hurt and I believe was player of the month. I mean a guy misses a couple weeks two years ago and now thats going to end his career prematurely? Thats just not being honest. I mean say his game stinks. Say he's a notch below the other star forwards. But saying its a bad signing because he's going to get hurt in 3 years is silly. It might happen... sure. And Amare might come back and give us 20/10 next year. It could happen.Melo is certainly polarizing!
What sucks is that since the Melo trade our front office has been so bad its hard to feel warm and fuzzy about the guy, I get it.
People ask you this all the time though. It's because you don't take seriously people who you disagree with. You either throw personal insults at people or attribute a view to them that they would never endorse (like "you'd love to have built the whole team around Mozgov and company.") Everyone does this occasionally but you seem to do it almost every time you're discussing Melo. When you aren't doing that, I actually really enjoy discussions with you.
StarksEwing1 wrote:fishmike wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:fishmike wrote:Jmpasq wrote:gunsnewing wrote:been saying the same thing for years azamatbagatov. It won't sink in until Melo is sitting on the bench in a suit in the same chair occupied by Mcdyess & Allan Houston and many others with 2-3yrs left on his contract. As the countdown on Melo's days as a knick and his expiring contract begins. We are not getting any younger. 41+ years since our last championship
yep you would think seeing the same thing happen over and over would eventually sink in. The Knicks should get ready for the players coming off rookie deals as their core pieces.Those contracts arent crippling like the super max deals. You can get 3 of those guys and still have room for a couple spare parts.
Yea man.. I mean look at what Will Chandler, Gallo and Mosgov (that equalls about $20mm) have accomplished. Maybe we should avoid all talent that might be expensive? How is Derrick Rose? You keep your talent. You keep your picks. You keep building. ITs not that hard.
Just say you dont want Melo. You dont like the guy, you would rather suck and be warm and cuddly with hope... why make stuff up about a guys health to make you feel better about not wanting him back.
Fish why do you get insulted if somene is a fraction critical with signing him to a mega deal at his age. i think the bring up some fair ponts. They arent bashing the guy they just are cncerned about the salary cap and potential risks if melo ets hurt which is vey possible in his 30's
Im not insulted at all. Not even a little. I just dont get why guys cant be honest. Why make stuff up? Melo missed 5 games last year. The year before when he did have to rest the shoulder he came back played hurt and I believe was player of the month. I mean a guy misses a couple weeks two years ago and now thats going to end his career prematurely? Thats just not being honest. I mean say his game stinks. Say he's a notch below the other star forwards. But saying its a bad signing because he's going to get hurt in 3 years is silly. It might happen... sure. And Amare might come back and give us 20/10 next year. It could happen.Melo is certainly polarizing!
What sucks is that since the Melo trade our front office has been so bad its hard to feel warm and fuzzy about the guy, I get it.
I think you are overreacting. Nobody said his games stinks only a fool would say that. Being concerened for a player in his 30's making 23-25 million per yar is a legitimate concern. I think you are a great fan but sometimes i think you confuse being a tad critical of melo/his contract to bashing him.
actually Im saying I would prefer bashing him... because he's got holes in his game for sure. I think you pay him because thats the NBA and he's marguee talent, flawed or otherwise. Injury concerns are always a factor. Look at what Amare did to us. However there is a guy who missed huge parts of seasons and had multiple surgeries. Melo? Dude sat for like 3 weeks, came back stronger than ever and followed that up with a strong season last year. Injures can always derail a team's plan. The only hedge for that is the draft, and if disaster strikes you hopefully come away with a nice player. See Lakers... Nash/Kobe give you nothing but they get Randle, a nice piece moving forward. Its that simple.
For that reason along I am so glad Phil is here... we need to use the draft as a key tool to aquire talent. Keeping it should never be a problem with Dolan's pockets (I give him credit for that).
StarksEwing1 wrote:fishmike wrote:Jmpasq wrote:fishmike wrote:Jmpasq wrote:gunsnewing wrote:been saying the same thing for years azamatbagatov. It won't sink in until Melo is sitting on the bench in a suit in the same chair occupied by Mcdyess & Allan Houston and many others with 2-3yrs left on his contract. As the countdown on Melo's days as a knick and his expiring contract begins. We are not getting any younger. 41+ years since our last championship
yep you would think seeing the same thing happen over and over would eventually sink in. The Knicks should get ready for the players coming off rookie deals as their core pieces.Those contracts arent crippling like the super max deals. You can get 3 of those guys and still have room for a couple spare parts.
Yea man.. I mean look at what Will Chandler, Gallo and Mosgov (that equalls about $20mm) have accomplished. Maybe we should avoid all talent that might be expensive? How is Derrick Rose? You keep your talent. You keep your picks. You keep building. ITs not that hard.
Just say you dont want Melo. You dont like the guy, you would rather suck and be warm and cuddly with hope... why make stuff up about a guys health to make you feel better about not wanting him back.
I want him back at 16-18 not 25-30
When you out to eat do you ask for the porterhouse but ask only to pay the price of the sirloin? I mean cmon... take your feelings out of it and realize this price is set by the market.
See this is the point everyone is trying to make fish. You seem to think eveyone hates Melo but thats not the case. Unfortunetly we live in a salary cap world so sacrifices need to be amde even by top players. I mean unless you get extremely lucky and get a player like Lebron or Durant. I mean i personally like Melo but i like the Knicks more and i wnat him to take less in order to have a better team longterm
Agreed. I have no doubt that a few teams would offer Melo $25 mil if they could. Sure that's the high end of what teams would pay him. I wouldn't call the high end of what a few teams would offer Melo "the market." Or you could call that "the market," but then the market is often a bad deal and you're better off looking for discounts.
StarksEwing1 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:fishmike wrote:Jmpasq wrote:gunsnewing wrote:been saying the same thing for years azamatbagatov. It won't sink in until Melo is sitting on the bench in a suit in the same chair occupied by Mcdyess & Allan Houston and many others with 2-3yrs left on his contract. As the countdown on Melo's days as a knick and his expiring contract begins. We are not getting any younger. 41+ years since our last championship
yep you would think seeing the same thing happen over and over would eventually sink in. The Knicks should get ready for the players coming off rookie deals as their core pieces.Those contracts arent crippling like the super max deals. You can get 3 of those guys and still have room for a couple spare parts.
Yea man.. I mean look at what Will Chandler, Gallo and Mosgov (that equalls about $20mm) have accomplished. Maybe we should avoid all talent that might be expensive? How is Derrick Rose? You keep your talent. You keep your picks. You keep building. ITs not that hard.
Just say you dont want Melo. You dont like the guy, you would rather suck and be warm and cuddly with hope... why make stuff up about a guys health to make you feel better about not wanting him back.
Fish why do you get insulted if somene is a fraction critical with signing him to a mega deal at his age. i think the bring up some fair ponts. They arent bashing the guy they just are cncerned about the salary cap and potential risks if melo ets hurt which is vey possible in his 30's
Im not insulted at all. Not even a little. I just dont get why guys cant be honest. Why make stuff up? Melo missed 5 games last year. The year before when he did have to rest the shoulder he came back played hurt and I believe was player of the month. I mean a guy misses a couple weeks two years ago and now thats going to end his career prematurely? Thats just not being honest. I mean say his game stinks. Say he's a notch below the other star forwards. But saying its a bad signing because he's going to get hurt in 3 years is silly. It might happen... sure. And Amare might come back and give us 20/10 next year. It could happen.Melo is certainly polarizing!
What sucks is that since the Melo trade our front office has been so bad its hard to feel warm and fuzzy about the guy, I get it.
People ask you this all the time though. It's because you don't take seriously people who you disagree with. You either throw personal insults at people or attribute a view to them that they would never endorse (like "you'd love to have built the whole team around Mozgov and company.") Everyone does this occasionally but you seem to do it almost every time you're discussing Melo. When you aren't doing that, I actually really enjoy discussions with you.
This.
Im giving an example of the past. Before we had the star we had some nice parts. Im a kool-aid drinking Knick fan. I loved Gallo, Chandler, and Mos was one of my favorites. I wanted those guys to be great. Are they not an example of what we are talking about? Where is the insult dude? I mean those are the guys we gave up to get Melo essentially, and all three are (or were) good players that most around here liked.
Maybe the guy's post should read:
instead of Melo at $20mm we could spread that money around for 2-3 guys who always play well, never get hurt and will continue to get better no matter what?
My point is some folks are saying one guy making that much cash is a liability. But the three good players we traded him for are always hurt or arent performing very well.
fishmike wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:fishmike wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:fishmike wrote:Jmpasq wrote:gunsnewing wrote:been saying the same thing for years azamatbagatov. It won't sink in until Melo is sitting on the bench in a suit in the same chair occupied by Mcdyess & Allan Houston and many others with 2-3yrs left on his contract. As the countdown on Melo's days as a knick and his expiring contract begins. We are not getting any younger. 41+ years since our last championship
yep you would think seeing the same thing happen over and over would eventually sink in. The Knicks should get ready for the players coming off rookie deals as their core pieces.Those contracts arent crippling like the super max deals. You can get 3 of those guys and still have room for a couple spare parts.
Yea man.. I mean look at what Will Chandler, Gallo and Mosgov (that equalls about $20mm) have accomplished. Maybe we should avoid all talent that might be expensive? How is Derrick Rose? You keep your talent. You keep your picks. You keep building. ITs not that hard.
Just say you dont want Melo. You dont like the guy, you would rather suck and be warm and cuddly with hope... why make stuff up about a guys health to make you feel better about not wanting him back.
Fish why do you get insulted if somene is a fraction critical with signing him to a mega deal at his age. i think the bring up some fair ponts. They arent bashing the guy they just are cncerned about the salary cap and potential risks if melo ets hurt which is vey possible in his 30's
Im not insulted at all. Not even a little. I just dont get why guys cant be honest. Why make stuff up? Melo missed 5 games last year. The year before when he did have to rest the shoulder he came back played hurt and I believe was player of the month. I mean a guy misses a couple weeks two years ago and now thats going to end his career prematurely? Thats just not being honest. I mean say his game stinks. Say he's a notch below the other star forwards. But saying its a bad signing because he's going to get hurt in 3 years is silly. It might happen... sure. And Amare might come back and give us 20/10 next year. It could happen.Melo is certainly polarizing!
What sucks is that since the Melo trade our front office has been so bad its hard to feel warm and fuzzy about the guy, I get it.
I think you are overreacting. Nobody said his games stinks only a fool would say that. Being concerened for a player in his 30's making 23-25 million per yar is a legitimate concern. I think you are a great fan but sometimes i think you confuse being a tad critical of melo/his contract to bashing him.
actually Im saying I would prefer bashing him... because he's got holes in his game for sure. I think you pay him because thats the NBA and he's marguee talent, flawed or otherwise. Injury concerns are always a factor. Look at what Amare did to us. However there is a guy who missed huge parts of seasons and had multiple surgeries. Melo? Dude sat for like 3 weeks, came back stronger than ever and followed that up with a strong season last year. Injures can always derail a team's plan. The only hedge for that is the draft, and if disaster strikes you hopefully come away with a nice player. See Lakers... Nash/Kobe give you nothing but they get Randle, a nice piece moving forward. Its that simple.For that reason along I am so glad Phil is here... we need to use the draft as a key tool to aquire talent. Keeping it should never be a problem with Dolan's pockets (I give him credit for that).
his playoff record as a knick is 7 wins and 21 losses for .333. this is pretty much in line with his entire playoff career record.
this is really the red flag on this guy and why he must not be overpaid.
Bonn1997 wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:fishmike wrote:Jmpasq wrote:fishmike wrote:Jmpasq wrote:gunsnewing wrote:been saying the same thing for years azamatbagatov. It won't sink in until Melo is sitting on the bench in a suit in the same chair occupied by Mcdyess & Allan Houston and many others with 2-3yrs left on his contract. As the countdown on Melo's days as a knick and his expiring contract begins. We are not getting any younger. 41+ years since our last championship
yep you would think seeing the same thing happen over and over would eventually sink in. The Knicks should get ready for the players coming off rookie deals as their core pieces.Those contracts arent crippling like the super max deals. You can get 3 of those guys and still have room for a couple spare parts.
Yea man.. I mean look at what Will Chandler, Gallo and Mosgov (that equalls about $20mm) have accomplished. Maybe we should avoid all talent that might be expensive? How is Derrick Rose? You keep your talent. You keep your picks. You keep building. ITs not that hard.
Just say you dont want Melo. You dont like the guy, you would rather suck and be warm and cuddly with hope... why make stuff up about a guys health to make you feel better about not wanting him back.
I want him back at 16-18 not 25-30
When you out to eat do you ask for the porterhouse but ask only to pay the price of the sirloin? I mean cmon... take your feelings out of it and realize this price is set by the market.
See this is the point everyone is trying to make fish. You seem to think eveyone hates Melo but thats not the case. Unfortunetly we live in a salary cap world so sacrifices need to be amde even by top players. I mean unless you get extremely lucky and get a player like Lebron or Durant. I mean i personally like Melo but i like the Knicks more and i wnat him to take less in order to have a better team longterm
Agreed. I have no doubt that a few teams would offer Melo $25 mil if they could. Sure that's the high end of what teams would pay him. I wouldn't call the high end of what a few teams would offer Melo "the market." Or you could call that "the market," but then the market is often a bad deal and you're better off looking for discounts.
huh? do you take ecomonics? Market is set by the highest bidder. The market for Allan Houston was NOT $100mm. It most certainly is for Melo. Guys a HOF player in his prime and Knick fans are worried about money?
I just want to hear people's plans. If you want to let Melo walk fine.. so whats your plan to build a winner since you want to let one of the most productive guys in his prime walk. OK... who are you getting? All I hear is this magical elusive mix of players who will never get hurt, are two way players and are wonderful human beings. No names... just rainbows and magical ponies.
But if I mention our prior failures Im forcing some view on somebody?
People say they trust Phil to build it. Ahh... here's a news flash... Phil wants Melo to come back. Now if he trades him I have no problem with that!!!!! None! 
fishmike wrote:Jmpasq wrote:gunsnewing wrote:been saying the same thing for years azamatbagatov. It won't sink in until Melo is sitting on the bench in a suit in the same chair occupied by Mcdyess & Allan Houston and many others with 2-3yrs left on his contract. As the countdown on Melo's days as a knick and his expiring contract begins. We are not getting any younger. 41+ years since our last championship
yep you would think seeing the same thing happen over and over would eventually sink in. The Knicks should get ready for the players coming off rookie deals as their core pieces.Those contracts arent crippling like the super max deals. You can get 3 of those guys and still have room for a couple spare parts.
Yea man.. I mean look at what Will Chandler, Gallo and Mosgov (that equalls about $20mm) have accomplished. Maybe we should avoid all talent that might be expensive? How is Derrick Rose? You keep your talent. You keep your picks. You keep building. ITs not that hard.
Just say you dont want Melo. You dont like the guy, you would rather suck and be warm and cuddly with hope... why make stuff up about a guys health to make you feel better about not wanting him back.
Funny you mention them though as Denver has a better roster and more wins since the trade.Its not just about pure numbers its a style a play and a divisive environment he creates.
In games Melo has played since coming to NY the Knicks are 125-101 or .550 winning percentage the Nuggets since Melo has left are 156 -110 or .580 winning percentage
fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:fishmike wrote:Jmpasq wrote:fishmike wrote:Jmpasq wrote:gunsnewing wrote:been saying the same thing for years azamatbagatov. It won't sink in until Melo is sitting on the bench in a suit in the same chair occupied by Mcdyess & Allan Houston and many others with 2-3yrs left on his contract. As the countdown on Melo's days as a knick and his expiring contract begins. We are not getting any younger. 41+ years since our last championship
yep you would think seeing the same thing happen over and over would eventually sink in. The Knicks should get ready for the players coming off rookie deals as their core pieces.Those contracts arent crippling like the super max deals. You can get 3 of those guys and still have room for a couple spare parts.
Yea man.. I mean look at what Will Chandler, Gallo and Mosgov (that equalls about $20mm) have accomplished. Maybe we should avoid all talent that might be expensive? How is Derrick Rose? You keep your talent. You keep your picks. You keep building. ITs not that hard.
Just say you dont want Melo. You dont like the guy, you would rather suck and be warm and cuddly with hope... why make stuff up about a guys health to make you feel better about not wanting him back.
I want him back at 16-18 not 25-30
When you out to eat do you ask for the porterhouse but ask only to pay the price of the sirloin? I mean cmon... take your feelings out of it and realize this price is set by the market.
See this is the point everyone is trying to make fish. You seem to think eveyone hates Melo but thats not the case. Unfortunetly we live in a salary cap world so sacrifices need to be amde even by top players. I mean unless you get extremely lucky and get a player like Lebron or Durant. I mean i personally like Melo but i like the Knicks more and i wnat him to take less in order to have a better team longterm
Agreed. I have no doubt that a few teams would offer Melo $25 mil if they could. Sure that's the high end of what teams would pay him. I wouldn't call the high end of what a few teams would offer Melo "the market." Or you could call that "the market," but then the market is often a bad deal and you're better off looking for discounts.
huh? do you take ecomonics? Market is set by the highest bidder. The market for Allan Houston was NOT $100mm. It most certainly is for Melo. Guys a HOF player in his prime and Knick fans are worried about money?I just want to hear people's plans. If you want to let Melo walk fine.. so whats your plan to build a winner since you want to let one of the most productive guys in his prime walk. OK... who are you getting? All I hear is this magical elusive mix of players who will never get hurt, are two way players and are wonderful human beings. No names... just rainbows and magical ponies.
But if I mention our prior failures Im forcing some view on somebody?
People say they trust Phil to build it. Ahh... here's a news flash... Phil wants Melo to come back. Now if he trades him I have no problem with that!!!!! None!
in reality you should be providing a plan based on your premise. here come the <crickets>
Jmpasq wrote:fishmike wrote:Jmpasq wrote:gunsnewing wrote:been saying the same thing for years azamatbagatov. It won't sink in until Melo is sitting on the bench in a suit in the same chair occupied by Mcdyess & Allan Houston and many others with 2-3yrs left on his contract. As the countdown on Melo's days as a knick and his expiring contract begins. We are not getting any younger. 41+ years since our last championship
yep you would think seeing the same thing happen over and over would eventually sink in. The Knicks should get ready for the players coming off rookie deals as their core pieces.Those contracts arent crippling like the super max deals. You can get 3 of those guys and still have room for a couple spare parts.
Yea man.. I mean look at what Will Chandler, Gallo and Mosgov (that equalls about $20mm) have accomplished. Maybe we should avoid all talent that might be expensive? How is Derrick Rose? You keep your talent. You keep your picks. You keep building. ITs not that hard.
Just say you dont want Melo. You dont like the guy, you would rather suck and be warm and cuddly with hope... why make stuff up about a guys health to make you feel better about not wanting him back.
Funny you mention them though as Denver has a better roster and more wins since the trade.Its not just about pure numbers its a style a play and a divisive environment he creates.
In games Melo has played since coming to NY the Knicks are 125-101 or .550 winning percentage the Nuggets since Melo has left are 156 -110 or .580 winning percentage
have you played with him? Maybe you can supply a quote? Some evidence somewhere of some player that said he's happy to not be on his team anymore? Anything? It would be nice to stick to facts.
Good point Denver. We all know it was a lobsided trade and Denver fleeced us. Yet they have essentially been parallel to the Knicks no? Denver 100% walked away winners in that trade and meanwhile the Knicks biggest moves have been to let Lin walk for nothing when to bring back Felton and trade picks for Bargs. Denver has made some good moves also no? Yet they are a lottery team also. Hmmm...
fishmike wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:fishmike wrote:Jmpasq wrote:gunsnewing wrote:been saying the same thing for years azamatbagatov. It won't sink in until Melo is sitting on the bench in a suit in the same chair occupied by Mcdyess & Allan Houston and many others with 2-3yrs left on his contract. As the countdown on Melo's days as a knick and his expiring contract begins. We are not getting any younger. 41+ years since our last championship
yep you would think seeing the same thing happen over and over would eventually sink in. The Knicks should get ready for the players coming off rookie deals as their core pieces.Those contracts arent crippling like the super max deals. You can get 3 of those guys and still have room for a couple spare parts.
Yea man.. I mean look at what Will Chandler, Gallo and Mosgov (that equalls about $20mm) have accomplished. Maybe we should avoid all talent that might be expensive? How is Derrick Rose? You keep your talent. You keep your picks. You keep building. ITs not that hard.
Just say you dont want Melo. You dont like the guy, you would rather suck and be warm and cuddly with hope... why make stuff up about a guys health to make you feel better about not wanting him back.
Fish why do you get insulted if somene is a fraction critical with signing him to a mega deal at his age. i think the bring up some fair ponts. They arent bashing the guy they just are cncerned about the salary cap and potential risks if melo ets hurt which is vey possible in his 30's
Im not insulted at all. Not even a little. I just dont get why guys cant be honest. Why make stuff up? Melo missed 5 games last year. The year before when he did have to rest the shoulder he came back played hurt and I believe was player of the month. I mean a guy misses a couple weeks two years ago and now thats going to end his career prematurely? Thats just not being honest. I mean say his game stinks. Say he's a notch below the other star forwards. But saying its a bad signing because he's going to get hurt in 3 years is silly. It might happen... sure. And Amare might come back and give us 20/10 next year. It could happen.Melo is certainly polarizing!
What sucks is that since the Melo trade our front office has been so bad its hard to feel warm and fuzzy about the guy, I get it.
People ask you this all the time though. It's because you don't take seriously people who you disagree with. You either throw personal insults at people or attribute a view to them that they would never endorse (like "you'd love to have built the whole team around Mozgov and company.") Everyone does this occasionally but you seem to do it almost every time you're discussing Melo. When you aren't doing that, I actually really enjoy discussions with you.
This.
Im giving an example of the past. Before we had the star we had some nice parts. Im a kool-aid drinking Knick fan. I loved Gallo, Chandler, and Mos was one of my favorites. I wanted those guys to be great. Are they not an example of what we are talking about? Where is the insult dude? I mean those are the guys we gave up to get Melo essentially, and all three are (or were) good players that most around here liked.Maybe the guy's post should read:
instead of Melo at $20mm we could spread that money around for 2-3 guys who always play well, never get hurt and will continue to get better no matter what?
My point is some folks are saying one guy making that much cash is a liability. But the three good players we traded him for are always hurt or arent performing very well.
Maybe you can ask the person which 2 to 3 players they would target or how they would go about evaluating which players to target. People don't like it when you assume you know their views and then argue against that view.
fishmike wrote:Jmpasq wrote:fishmike wrote:Jmpasq wrote:gunsnewing wrote:been saying the same thing for years azamatbagatov. It won't sink in until Melo is sitting on the bench in a suit in the same chair occupied by Mcdyess & Allan Houston and many others with 2-3yrs left on his contract. As the countdown on Melo's days as a knick and his expiring contract begins. We are not getting any younger. 41+ years since our last championship
yep you would think seeing the same thing happen over and over would eventually sink in. The Knicks should get ready for the players coming off rookie deals as their core pieces.Those contracts arent crippling like the super max deals. You can get 3 of those guys and still have room for a couple spare parts.
Yea man.. I mean look at what Will Chandler, Gallo and Mosgov (that equalls about $20mm) have accomplished. Maybe we should avoid all talent that might be expensive? How is Derrick Rose? You keep your talent. You keep your picks. You keep building. ITs not that hard.
Just say you dont want Melo. You dont like the guy, you would rather suck and be warm and cuddly with hope... why make stuff up about a guys health to make you feel better about not wanting him back.
I want him back at 16-18 not 25-30
When you out to eat do you ask for the porterhouse but ask only to pay the price of the sirloin? I mean cmon... take your feelings out of it and realize this price is set by the market.
I go to a different steakhouse if the Porterhouse is fatty and I don't receive the advertised weight of the meat. I dont get caught up the in the name of the restaurant
Jmpasq,
Why do you think resigning Melo means he runs this ship for the next 5 years? Do you really think with Phil and Fish that is going to happen? Dont you think if he creates a "divisive environment" Phil will move him? Or do you honestly think Melo has more juice in MSG than Phil Jackson and Fisher? Sota traded KG. Knicks traded Ewing. Lakers traded Shaq. I mean why do people think Melo rules the world? Thats why Phil is here... if Melo is screaming give me the damn ball and breaking plays you think he stays? We have seen this offseason there is a pretty damn good market for him no?
dk7th wrote:fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:fishmike wrote:Jmpasq wrote:fishmike wrote:Jmpasq wrote:gunsnewing wrote:been saying the same thing for years azamatbagatov. It won't sink in until Melo is sitting on the bench in a suit in the same chair occupied by Mcdyess & Allan Houston and many others with 2-3yrs left on his contract. As the countdown on Melo's days as a knick and his expiring contract begins. We are not getting any younger. 41+ years since our last championship
yep you would think seeing the same thing happen over and over would eventually sink in. The Knicks should get ready for the players coming off rookie deals as their core pieces.Those contracts arent crippling like the super max deals. You can get 3 of those guys and still have room for a couple spare parts.
Yea man.. I mean look at what Will Chandler, Gallo and Mosgov (that equalls about $20mm) have accomplished. Maybe we should avoid all talent that might be expensive? How is Derrick Rose? You keep your talent. You keep your picks. You keep building. ITs not that hard.
Just say you dont want Melo. You dont like the guy, you would rather suck and be warm and cuddly with hope... why make stuff up about a guys health to make you feel better about not wanting him back.
I want him back at 16-18 not 25-30
When you out to eat do you ask for the porterhouse but ask only to pay the price of the sirloin? I mean cmon... take your feelings out of it and realize this price is set by the market.
See this is the point everyone is trying to make fish. You seem to think eveyone hates Melo but thats not the case. Unfortunetly we live in a salary cap world so sacrifices need to be amde even by top players. I mean unless you get extremely lucky and get a player like Lebron or Durant. I mean i personally like Melo but i like the Knicks more and i wnat him to take less in order to have a better team longterm
Agreed. I have no doubt that a few teams would offer Melo $25 mil if they could. Sure that's the high end of what teams would pay him. I wouldn't call the high end of what a few teams would offer Melo "the market." Or you could call that "the market," but then the market is often a bad deal and you're better off looking for discounts.
huh? do you take ecomonics? Market is set by the highest bidder. The market for Allan Houston was NOT $100mm. It most certainly is for Melo. Guys a HOF player in his prime and Knick fans are worried about money?I just want to hear people's plans. If you want to let Melo walk fine.. so whats your plan to build a winner since you want to let one of the most productive guys in his prime walk. OK... who are you getting? All I hear is this magical elusive mix of players who will never get hurt, are two way players and are wonderful human beings. No names... just rainbows and magical ponies.
But if I mention our prior failures Im forcing some view on somebody?
People say they trust Phil to build it. Ahh... here's a news flash... Phil wants Melo to come back. Now if he trades him I have no problem with that!!!!! None!
in reality you should be providing a plan based on your premise. here come the <crickets>
Get some guys that can play with him other than Amare, Tyson and Bargs. Can you think of a more sorry threesome to go to battle with. Those guys kill the cap and have been really bad or hurt when it counted in ny during Melo's tenure. Get a point guard. Last year the team needed a back court. Don't commit a ton of cap space to a guy that can't have his contract insured and that doctors don't think will be playing for the length of his contract.
Bonn1997 wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:fishmike wrote:Jmpasq wrote:fishmike wrote:Jmpasq wrote:gunsnewing wrote:been saying the same thing for years azamatbagatov. It won't sink in until Melo is sitting on the bench in a suit in the same chair occupied by Mcdyess & Allan Houston and many others with 2-3yrs left on his contract. As the countdown on Melo's days as a knick and his expiring contract begins. We are not getting any younger. 41+ years since our last championship
yep you would think seeing the same thing happen over and over would eventually sink in. The Knicks should get ready for the players coming off rookie deals as their core pieces.Those contracts arent crippling like the super max deals. You can get 3 of those guys and still have room for a couple spare parts.
Yea man.. I mean look at what Will Chandler, Gallo and Mosgov (that equalls about $20mm) have accomplished. Maybe we should avoid all talent that might be expensive? How is Derrick Rose? You keep your talent. You keep your picks. You keep building. ITs not that hard.
Just say you dont want Melo. You dont like the guy, you would rather suck and be warm and cuddly with hope... why make stuff up about a guys health to make you feel better about not wanting him back.
I want him back at 16-18 not 25-30
When you out to eat do you ask for the porterhouse but ask only to pay the price of the sirloin? I mean cmon... take your feelings out of it and realize this price is set by the market.
See this is the point everyone is trying to make fish. You seem to think eveyone hates Melo but thats not the case. Unfortunetly we live in a salary cap world so sacrifices need to be amde even by top players. I mean unless you get extremely lucky and get a player like Lebron or Durant. I mean i personally like Melo but i like the Knicks more and i wnat him to take less in order to have a better team longterm
Agreed. I have no doubt that a few teams would offer Melo $25 mil if they could. Sure that's the high end of what teams would pay him. I wouldn't call the high end of what a few teams would offer Melo "the market." Or you could call that "the market," but then the market is often a bad deal and you're better off looking for discounts.
Ive said for some teams paying Melo a max deal makes sense. I dont think for the Knicks it does because they dont have the young players or core pieces in place that cancel out overpaying him. The Rockets, Clippers, Heat, 76ers, Cavs, Bulls I get it.
Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:fishmike wrote:Jmpasq wrote:gunsnewing wrote:been saying the same thing for years azamatbagatov. It won't sink in until Melo is sitting on the bench in a suit in the same chair occupied by Mcdyess & Allan Houston and many others with 2-3yrs left on his contract. As the countdown on Melo's days as a knick and his expiring contract begins. We are not getting any younger. 41+ years since our last championship
yep you would think seeing the same thing happen over and over would eventually sink in. The Knicks should get ready for the players coming off rookie deals as their core pieces.Those contracts arent crippling like the super max deals. You can get 3 of those guys and still have room for a couple spare parts.
Yea man.. I mean look at what Will Chandler, Gallo and Mosgov (that equalls about $20mm) have accomplished. Maybe we should avoid all talent that might be expensive? How is Derrick Rose? You keep your talent. You keep your picks. You keep building. ITs not that hard.
Just say you dont want Melo. You dont like the guy, you would rather suck and be warm and cuddly with hope... why make stuff up about a guys health to make you feel better about not wanting him back.
Fish why do you get insulted if somene is a fraction critical with signing him to a mega deal at his age. i think the bring up some fair ponts. They arent bashing the guy they just are cncerned about the salary cap and potential risks if melo ets hurt which is vey possible in his 30's
Im not insulted at all. Not even a little. I just dont get why guys cant be honest. Why make stuff up? Melo missed 5 games last year. The year before when he did have to rest the shoulder he came back played hurt and I believe was player of the month. I mean a guy misses a couple weeks two years ago and now thats going to end his career prematurely? Thats just not being honest. I mean say his game stinks. Say he's a notch below the other star forwards. But saying its a bad signing because he's going to get hurt in 3 years is silly. It might happen... sure. And Amare might come back and give us 20/10 next year. It could happen.Melo is certainly polarizing!
What sucks is that since the Melo trade our front office has been so bad its hard to feel warm and fuzzy about the guy, I get it.
People ask you this all the time though. It's because you don't take seriously people who you disagree with. You either throw personal insults at people or attribute a view to them that they would never endorse (like "you'd love to have built the whole team around Mozgov and company.") Everyone does this occasionally but you seem to do it almost every time you're discussing Melo. When you aren't doing that, I actually really enjoy discussions with you.
This.
Im giving an example of the past. Before we had the star we had some nice parts. Im a kool-aid drinking Knick fan. I loved Gallo, Chandler, and Mos was one of my favorites. I wanted those guys to be great. Are they not an example of what we are talking about? Where is the insult dude? I mean those are the guys we gave up to get Melo essentially, and all three are (or were) good players that most around here liked.Maybe the guy's post should read:
instead of Melo at $20mm we could spread that money around for 2-3 guys who always play well, never get hurt and will continue to get better no matter what?
My point is some folks are saying one guy making that much cash is a liability. But the three good players we traded him for are always hurt or arent performing very well.
Maybe you can ask the person which 2 to 3 players they would target or how they would go about evaluating which players to target. People don't like it when you assume you know their views and then argue against that view.
I have. Ive asked you. I ask in every thread. People dont have a plan. You said it Bonn... so lets hear it. You think Melo is too much at 5 years $120mm. OK. So your the GM. You offer him less? He goes to LAL. So lets hear your plan.
fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:fishmike wrote:Jmpasq wrote:fishmike wrote:Jmpasq wrote:gunsnewing wrote:been saying the same thing for years azamatbagatov. It won't sink in until Melo is sitting on the bench in a suit in the same chair occupied by Mcdyess & Allan Houston and many others with 2-3yrs left on his contract. As the countdown on Melo's days as a knick and his expiring contract begins. We are not getting any younger. 41+ years since our last championship
yep you would think seeing the same thing happen over and over would eventually sink in. The Knicks should get ready for the players coming off rookie deals as their core pieces.Those contracts arent crippling like the super max deals. You can get 3 of those guys and still have room for a couple spare parts.
Yea man.. I mean look at what Will Chandler, Gallo and Mosgov (that equalls about $20mm) have accomplished. Maybe we should avoid all talent that might be expensive? How is Derrick Rose? You keep your talent. You keep your picks. You keep building. ITs not that hard.
Just say you dont want Melo. You dont like the guy, you would rather suck and be warm and cuddly with hope... why make stuff up about a guys health to make you feel better about not wanting him back.
I want him back at 16-18 not 25-30
When you out to eat do you ask for the porterhouse but ask only to pay the price of the sirloin? I mean cmon... take your feelings out of it and realize this price is set by the market.
See this is the point everyone is trying to make fish. You seem to think eveyone hates Melo but thats not the case. Unfortunetly we live in a salary cap world so sacrifices need to be amde even by top players. I mean unless you get extremely lucky and get a player like Lebron or Durant. I mean i personally like Melo but i like the Knicks more and i wnat him to take less in order to have a better team longterm
Agreed. I have no doubt that a few teams would offer Melo $25 mil if they could. Sure that's the high end of what teams would pay him. I wouldn't call the high end of what a few teams would offer Melo "the market." Or you could call that "the market," but then the market is often a bad deal and you're better off looking for discounts.
huh? do you take ecomonics? Market is set by the highest bidder. The market for Allan Houston was NOT $100mm. It most certainly is for Melo. Guys a HOF player in his prime and Knick fans are worried about money?I just want to hear people's plans. If you want to let Melo walk fine.. so whats your plan to build a winner since you want to let one of the most productive guys in his prime walk. OK... who are you getting? All I hear is this magical elusive mix of players who will never get hurt, are two way players and are wonderful human beings. No names... just rainbows and magical ponies.
But if I mention our prior failures Im forcing some view on somebody?
People say they trust Phil to build it. Ahh... here's a news flash... Phil wants Melo to come back. Now if he trades him I have no problem with that!!!!! None!
My plan? You have to evaluate all the advanced metrics and get guys at prices that are reasonable for what they produce. I don't start out by asking A) how much would other people pay the player and then decide I must sign him to that. I start out by asking B) how much is he worth to this team. If A is higher than B, then I'll just pass on the him. I don't want to let Melo walk though. I never would have let it come to this. Now that it has, I'd do everything I could to butter him up for his contributions to NY and encourage him to do an S & T. It's in both his and our interests to do that rather than let him walk. If he's willing to sign here for a little higher than B, I would still take him since he would be a trade asset.
