Knicks · Melo: "I trust Phil "Phil: "I believe in system basketball" (page 2)

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:Melo will believe in anyone and anything that helps him add to his collection of pictures of dead presidents
Melo being a system player is outright laughable. No system will suit his game. And unlike most people who get paid to do something, our man-child hero and his fans never got the memo that it's his game that needs to fit the system not the other way round. Such conceit!! Smells like the divine rights of Kings!!!!!!

very well put!!!!!

Wonderdonkey powers activate!

Form of... Internet hater and troll!
Form of... Bucket of water!

Attack the legion of doom and bizarro Mooby!

You are worse than most females I know.. too much estrogen in your makeup bro..

dk7th wrote:

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

arkrud wrote:Melo is ultimate one-star team player.
He will defer only to bigger star. Otherwise it's a Molo-ball.
And if he will not take substantial pay-cut (and he should not) no bigger star will be around in NY before he well retire.
Both MDA and Woodhead tried to change Malo game and failed.
Not sure why Fish and Zen can succeed.
It is not about changing the team, it's about changing a man.
This is not realistic for 30 year old NBA veteran.

I think Woodson went to Melo's strengths. I D'Antoni tried to get Melo to fit in his system in a role that didn't suit his game. I think Melo in the triangle will work. Obviously Phil thinks so also.

when you hear melo saying "i trust phil" that can mean one of several things:

1) i trust that phil will build a team around me that will cater to my style without me having to change my game, and never mind about that wack triangle
2) i realize my limitations as a player and i trust that phil can help me get acclimated to the triangle offense, ie system basketball, so that i can get over the hump
3) i trust that phil will bring in good players to fit into the triangle which i myself will work hard to learn and do my best to work within

for those who recall that fisher said that he won't necessarily run the triangle, i am not buying it.

i agree with arkrud that melo's learning the triangle is farfetched if not impossible... knick fans have a good reason to remain highly highly skeptical.

I remain skeptical, because I don't think he is a smart enough player to flourish in that offense.. but if it were truly about winning he would have been in chicago.. let me ask this.. people keep saying " he needs a running mate", " someone to team up with"... yada, yada, yada.. well tell me were in the world are you going to find two players of the caliber of rose( assuming healthy) and noah? where?

So again carmelo, you had the chance to join a team with two players who are better than you that can carry you.. and supposedly he is chosing NY? why.. I can tell you why? the max money and extra years... its simple.. so I don't really trust anything this dude says... He says " I trust Phil" really? did this trust come before or after he offered the max carmelo?

1) i trust that phil will build a team around me that will cater to my style without me having to change my game, and never mind about that wack triangle
2) i realize my limitations as a player and i trust that phil can help me get acclimated to the triangle offense, ie system basketball, so that i can get over the hump
3) i trust that phil will bring in good players to fit into the triangle which i myself will work hard to learn and do my best to work within

and here is the problem I have with all of those scenarios..

1) chicago has a team already put together that the knicks would be lucky to have in the absolute best scenario under phil

2) Phil isn't coaching.

3) refer to #1

ha ha well i will say this-- i like fisher and i am rooting for him to succeed, which to me means utilizing the triangle, melo or no melo. but i will not be surprised if things devolve and quickly if melo is here and tries to undermine the objectives of the coach. the last system coach we had here was undermined and we saw what happened.

we should be able to tell even in preseason what we can expect this season.

well I will have to lean on you to keep me informed. .once that clown signs on the dotted line... I am pretty much done..

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:Melo will believe in anyone and anything that helps him add to his collection of pictures of dead presidents
Melo being a system player is outright laughable. No system will suit his game. And unlike most people who get paid to do something, our man-child hero and his fans never got the memo that it's his game that needs to fit the system not the other way round. Such conceit!! Smells like the divine rights of Kings!!!!!!

very well put!!!!!

Wonderdonkey powers activate!

Form of... Internet hater and troll!
Form of... Bucket of water!

Attack the legion of doom and bizarro Mooby!

You are worse than most females I know.. too much estrogen in your makeup bro..

Do we need this kind of misogynistic crap on these boards?

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

arkrud wrote:Melo is ultimate one-star team player.
He will defer only to bigger star. Otherwise it's a Molo-ball.
And if he will not take substantial pay-cut (and he should not) no bigger star will be around in NY before he well retire.
Both MDA and Woodhead tried to change Malo game and failed.
Not sure why Fish and Zen can succeed.
It is not about changing the team, it's about changing a man.
This is not realistic for 30 year old NBA veteran.

I think Woodson went to Melo's strengths. I D'Antoni tried to get Melo to fit in his system in a role that didn't suit his game. I think Melo in the triangle will work. Obviously Phil thinks so also.

when you hear melo saying "i trust phil" that can mean one of several things:

1) i trust that phil will build a team around me that will cater to my style without me having to change my game, and never mind about that wack triangle
2) i realize my limitations as a player and i trust that phil can help me get acclimated to the triangle offense, ie system basketball, so that i can get over the hump
3) i trust that phil will bring in good players to fit into the triangle which i myself will work hard to learn and do my best to work within

for those who recall that fisher said that he won't necessarily run the triangle, i am not buying it.

i agree with arkrud that melo's learning the triangle is farfetched if not impossible... knick fans have a good reason to remain highly highly skeptical.

I remain skeptical, because I don't think he is a smart enough player to flourish in that offense.. but if it were truly about winning he would have been in chicago.. let me ask this.. people keep saying " he needs a running mate", " someone to team up with"... yada, yada, yada.. well tell me were in the world are you going to find two players of the caliber of rose( assuming healthy) and noah? where?

So again carmelo, you had the chance to join a team with two players who are better than you that can carry you.. and supposedly he is chosing NY? why.. I can tell you why? the max money and extra years... its simple.. so I don't really trust anything this dude says... He says " I trust Phil" really? did this trust come before or after he offered the max carmelo?

1) i trust that phil will build a team around me that will cater to my style without me having to change my game, and never mind about that wack triangle
2) i realize my limitations as a player and i trust that phil can help me get acclimated to the triangle offense, ie system basketball, so that i can get over the hump
3) i trust that phil will bring in good players to fit into the triangle which i myself will work hard to learn and do my best to work within

and here is the problem I have with all of those scenarios..

1) chicago has a team already put together that the knicks would be lucky to have in the absolute best scenario under phil

2) Phil isn't coaching.

3) refer to #1

ha ha well i will say this-- i like fisher and i am rooting for him to succeed, which to me means utilizing the triangle, melo or no melo. but i will not be surprised if things devolve and quickly if melo is here and tries to undermine the objectives of the coach. the last system coach we had here was undermined and we saw what happened.

we should be able to tell even in preseason what we can expect this season.

well I will have to lean on you to keep me informed. .once that clown signs on the dotted line... I am pretty much done..

well i have to watch pre-season to see if the knicks are watchable. the problem for me has been they have been so damned boring. maybe the triangle offense will make things more interesting.

otherwise it's going to end up being same shit different day.

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: Chris Herring ‏@HerringWSJ · 2h
Phil says he's expects an answer from Carmelo today, but that he also expected one yesterday and the day before that, too.

Click here to view the Tweet

smackeddog wrote:

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:Melo will believe in anyone and anything that helps him add to his collection of pictures of dead presidents
Melo being a system player is outright laughable. No system will suit his game. And unlike most people who get paid to do something, our man-child hero and his fans never got the memo that it's his game that needs to fit the system not the other way round. Such conceit!! Smells like the divine rights of Kings!!!!!!

very well put!!!!!

Wonderdonkey powers activate!

Form of... Internet hater and troll!
Form of... Bucket of water!

Attack the legion of doom and bizarro Mooby!

You are worse than most females I know.. too much estrogen in your makeup bro..

Do we need this kind of misogynistic crap on these boards?

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:Melo will believe in anyone and anything that helps him add to his collection of pictures of dead presidents
Melo being a system player is outright laughable. No system will suit his game. And unlike most people who get paid to do something, our man-child hero and his fans never got the memo that it's his game that needs to fit the system not the other way round. Such conceit!! Smells like the divine rights of Kings!!!!!!

very well put!!!!!

Wonderdonkey powers activate!

Form of... Internet hater and troll!
Form of... Bucket of water!

Attack the legion of doom and bizarro Mooby!

You are worse than most females I know.. too much estrogen in your makeup bro..

Do we need this kind of misogynistic crap on these boards?

Well it's been purged from realgm... Sorry did you want to talk hoops? System basketball? Much easier to wank over man-child greed run amok.

please do not hijack this thread

dk7th wrote:Melo's is a nice sentiment but it needs unpacking. One wonders if it means not only building a winner player by player but also instituting the Triangle. In any event I hope it means that it won't be all about Melo ever again and that he will do exactly what is asked of him down to the finest details of the system. Phil: "I believe in system basketball."

Colin Cowherd had a very interesting ESPN podcast concerning the emergence of "systems" in sports, and how they are becoming more effective than sheer talent. (He cited Germany over Brazil, Spurs over Miami, among others.) Do you need both? Yes, but as we have seen it seems clear that in the long run a system is more central to winning because systems are more reliable and create deeper teams. Systems don't break down, people do. Wade for instance. Last season, were it not for Ginobili breaking down from having played the previous summer, the Spurs would have prevailed. Ray Allen saved Miami from having the dubious distinction of reaching the Finals four times but winning only once. The Spurs outplayed the Heat and the Champagne was in their locker room. Mavs had a system too.

Hence, it is my hope that the ultimate anti-system player on the Knicks-- and he isn't the only one... there's Smith too-- will be able to conform to Jackson and Fisher's dictates.

I think Fisher is going to be a great coach for us, but I have to believe that without a steady use of the Triangle the Knicks will underachieve with Carmelo Anthiny.

I'm glad you are willing to hold out hope rather then just spew out that it won't work because Melo is this or that.

As for the main point in the topic. I agree 100% as having a system could create cohesion throughout the whole org not just on the basketball court. Phil Jackson wanted to run the triangle which made the coaching search simple for him and I don't believe there should be any disconnect from the coaching staff to the front office. Scouting becomes easier as they will have a plan for the exact type of players they will target. Same as free agency and trades. No more "clumsy" moves trying to fit a square peg in around hole.

Melo has played for Karl and MDA who both run systems (I don't know any more then the next man and I am just making assumptions) but IMO the fact that Phil and Fisher have won championships under this system forces Melo to have to respect it. As if he fails it won't be the systems fault it would be Melo's. With Karl and MDA there systems don't really hold the weight that the triangle does. It won 11 championships for goodness sake. Plus it seems likely that it will fit his game very well unlike MDA's who preferred the wings & forwards to be utility men while the PG has heavy usage or the wing/forward would need to be like Magic Johnson/Lebron James with the court vision and passing while the PG becomes the utility man. I also remember hearing(but of course this is ny media so don't know how true it is) that Billups didn't believe in MDA's system and was critical of it which was one of the reasons he was amnestied. Coming from a player like Billups that had to have hurt MDA's credibility with Melo.

Smith & Melo's talent if they get it together under the triangle its really our only shot at having a good season next yr. And truthfully them being able to or not being able to would tell us everything about them.

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:Melo will believe in anyone and anything that helps him add to his collection of pictures of dead presidents
Melo being a system player is outright laughable. No system will suit his game. And unlike most people who get paid to do something, our man-child hero and his fans never got the memo that it's his game that needs to fit the system not the other way round. Such conceit!! Smells like the divine rights of Kings!!!!!!

very well put!!!!!

Wonderdonkey powers activate!

Form of... Internet hater and troll!
Form of... Bucket of water!

Attack the legion of doom and bizarro Mooby!

You are worse than most females I know.. too much estrogen in your makeup bro..

Do we need this kind of misogynistic crap on these boards?

Well it's been purged from realgm... Sorry did you want to talk hoops? System basketball? Much easier to wank over man-child greed run amok.

please do not hijack this thread

You mean these two didn't do it already???

tkf wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:Melo will believe in anyone and anything that helps him add to his collection of pictures of dead presidents
Melo being a system player is outright laughable. No system will suit his game. And unlike most people who get paid to do something, our man-child hero and his fans never got the memo that it's his game that needs to fit the system not the other way round. Such conceit!! Smells like the divine rights of Kings!!!!!!

very well put!!!!!

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha I see this is the haters thread Melo will be just fine. He need 4 other player to get on the court with him. I know that you guys will hate Melo no matter what he does. I'm so so happy he is back and every game you guy will have to watch.
Damn the season has not begun and you guys are already starting up. If you don't like don't watch. find another team but this constant Melo hating has played out. He is BACK accept it!

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha I see this is the haters thread Melo will be just fine. He need 4 other player to get on the court with him. I know that you guys will hate Melo no matter what he does. I'm so so happy he is back and every game you guy will have to watch.
Damn the season has not begun and you guys are already starting up. If you don't like don't watch. find another team but this constant Melo hating has played out. He is BACK accept it!

Bonn1997 wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha I see this is the haters thread Melo will be just fine. He need 4 other player to get on the court with him. I know that you guys will hate Melo no matter what he does. I'm so so happy he is back and every game you guy will have to watch.
Damn the season has not begun and you guys are already starting up. If you don't like don't watch. find another team but this constant Melo hating has played out. He is BACK accept it!

You really come across as caring about Melo more than the team. I mean, it would make sense if you tried to rub it in guys' faces *when the team won something with Melo*, not simply when Melo got his next payday from the team.

Papabear is the Yin to tkf, dk7 and meloshouldgos' (interesting screen name ) Yang. It goes both ways. I see you get on papabear from time to time but never challenge the anti-melo crew. Is it because your views are more in-line with the anti-melo crew and you feel a need to get on papabear?

why not basketball? it has to be played with a system otherwise it's not an organized game just a hodge podge

i like the d'antoni system, which will succeed so nice with a solid point guard and was on the way to the playoffs here until the melo trade which destroyed our team, gallinari, mozgov ill wilson ray felton the old version near all star, you got amar'e before melo crushed his soul,

that team bonded over thanksgiving dinner,

it had a story, a legend

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

arkrud wrote:Melo is ultimate one-star team player.
He will defer only to bigger star. Otherwise it's a Molo-ball.
And if he will not take substantial pay-cut (and he should not) no bigger star will be around in NY before he well retire.
Both MDA and Woodhead tried to change Malo game and failed.
Not sure why Fish and Zen can succeed.
It is not about changing the team, it's about changing a man.
This is not realistic for 30 year old NBA veteran.

I think Woodson went to Melo's strengths. I D'Antoni tried to get Melo to fit in his system in a role that didn't suit his game. I think Melo in the triangle will work. Obviously Phil thinks so also.

when you hear melo saying "i trust phil" that can mean one of several things:

1) i trust that phil will build a team around me that will cater to my style without me having to change my game, and never mind about that wack triangle
2) i realize my limitations as a player and i trust that phil can help me get acclimated to the triangle offense, ie system basketball, so that i can get over the hump
3) i trust that phil will bring in good players to fit into the triangle which i myself will work hard to learn and do my best to work within

for those who recall that fisher said that he won't necessarily run the triangle, i am not buying it.

i agree with arkrud that melo's learning the triangle is farfetched if not impossible... knick fans have a good reason to remain highly highly skeptical.

I remain skeptical, because I don't think he is a smart enough player to flourish in that offense.. but if it were truly about winning he would have been in chicago.. let me ask this.. people keep saying " he needs a running mate", " someone to team up with"... yada, yada, yada.. well tell me were in the world are you going to find two players of the caliber of rose( assuming healthy) and noah? where?

So again carmelo, you had the chance to join a team with two players who are better than you that can carry you.. and supposedly he is chosing NY? why.. I can tell you why? the max money and extra years... its simple.. so I don't really trust anything this dude says... He says " I trust Phil" really? did this trust come before or after he offered the max carmelo?

1) i trust that phil will build a team around me that will cater to my style without me having to change my game, and never mind about that wack triangle
2) i realize my limitations as a player and i trust that phil can help me get acclimated to the triangle offense, ie system basketball, so that i can get over the hump
3) i trust that phil will bring in good players to fit into the triangle which i myself will work hard to learn and do my best to work within

and here is the problem I have with all of those scenarios..

1) chicago has a team already put together that the knicks would be lucky to have in the absolute best scenario under phil

2) Phil isn't coaching.

3) refer to #1

Maybe he doesn't want to abandon ship and try to win one here, and that's what he means by "I trust Phil", that Phil will build something here that he won't have to go to Chicago for. And Chicago isn't guaranteed, Rose can be Amare 2.0 for Melo.

People forget that if Amare stayed in 2010 form, things would be way way different. Now Melo has to assume he is going to Chicago and a guy who HAS NOT BEEN IN TRUE FORM FOR THE LAST TWO YEARS WILL RETURN TO THAT. Top that off with the fact that Noah hasn't remained fully healthy himself, with ongoing plantar fasciitis and other foot problems that bother him. He's a tough guy and plays through it most of the time, doesn't change the fact that he can go down at a moments notice and it's something that plagues him.

The scenarios are just reversed. Same shit, different toilet, so your notion that Melo is all about money hence the reason why he is signing with us and not Chicago doesn't hold any merit, there are other factors involved. Sure, money is one of them, not denying that, but to say it's the end all be all, well, then he wouldn't be taking this long to sign/agree with the Knicks, would have done it three days ago.

mreinman wrote:the board was actually a nice friendly place for a couple of days - too bad thats over.

Agreed @8&%#£#! Maybe things will settle down again once its official.

smackeddog wrote:

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:Melo will believe in anyone and anything that helps him add to his collection of pictures of dead presidents
Melo being a system player is outright laughable. No system will suit his game. And unlike most people who get paid to do something, our man-child hero and his fans never got the memo that it's his game that needs to fit the system not the other way round. Such conceit!! Smells like the divine rights of Kings!!!!!!

very well put!!!!!

Wonderdonkey powers activate!

Form of... Internet hater and troll!
Form of... Bucket of water!

Attack the legion of doom and bizarro Mooby!

You are worse than most females I know.. too much estrogen in your makeup bro..

Do we need this kind of misogynistic crap on these boards?

ask the person who started it.. Do we need it? that is a silly question...

And I am a lover of women.. just a hater of men who act like one..

Uptown wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha I see this is the haters thread Melo will be just fine. He need 4 other player to get on the court with him. I know that you guys will hate Melo no matter what he does. I'm so so happy he is back and every game you guy will have to watch.
Damn the season has not begun and you guys are already starting up. If you don't like don't watch. find another team but this constant Melo hating has played out. He is BACK accept it!

You really come across as caring about Melo more than the team. I mean, it would make sense if you tried to rub it in guys' faces *when the team won something with Melo*, not simply when Melo got his next payday from the team.

Papabear is the Yin to tkf, dk7 and meloshouldgos' (interesting screen name ) Yang. It goes both ways. I see you get on papabear from time to time but never challenge the anti-melo crew. Is it because your views are more in-line with the anti-melo crew and you feel a need to get on papabear?

mreinman wrote:the board was actually a nice friendly place for a couple of days - too bad thats over.

it can still be over for you.... use the ignore button...better yet why not address those who are starting the trouble instead of the ridiculous and mindless piling on?

Gsus wrote:

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

arkrud wrote:Melo is ultimate one-star team player.
He will defer only to bigger star. Otherwise it's a Molo-ball.
And if he will not take substantial pay-cut (and he should not) no bigger star will be around in NY before he well retire.
Both MDA and Woodhead tried to change Malo game and failed.
Not sure why Fish and Zen can succeed.
It is not about changing the team, it's about changing a man.
This is not realistic for 30 year old NBA veteran.

I think Woodson went to Melo's strengths. I D'Antoni tried to get Melo to fit in his system in a role that didn't suit his game. I think Melo in the triangle will work. Obviously Phil thinks so also.

when you hear melo saying "i trust phil" that can mean one of several things:

1) i trust that phil will build a team around me that will cater to my style without me having to change my game, and never mind about that wack triangle
2) i realize my limitations as a player and i trust that phil can help me get acclimated to the triangle offense, ie system basketball, so that i can get over the hump
3) i trust that phil will bring in good players to fit into the triangle which i myself will work hard to learn and do my best to work within

for those who recall that fisher said that he won't necessarily run the triangle, i am not buying it.

i agree with arkrud that melo's learning the triangle is farfetched if not impossible... knick fans have a good reason to remain highly highly skeptical.

I remain skeptical, because I don't think he is a smart enough player to flourish in that offense.. but if it were truly about winning he would have been in chicago.. let me ask this.. people keep saying " he needs a running mate", " someone to team up with"... yada, yada, yada.. well tell me were in the world are you going to find two players of the caliber of rose( assuming healthy) and noah? where?

So again carmelo, you had the chance to join a team with two players who are better than you that can carry you.. and supposedly he is chosing NY? why.. I can tell you why? the max money and extra years... its simple.. so I don't really trust anything this dude says... He says " I trust Phil" really? did this trust come before or after he offered the max carmelo?

1) i trust that phil will build a team around me that will cater to my style without me having to change my game, and never mind about that wack triangle
2) i realize my limitations as a player and i trust that phil can help me get acclimated to the triangle offense, ie system basketball, so that i can get over the hump
3) i trust that phil will bring in good players to fit into the triangle which i myself will work hard to learn and do my best to work within

and here is the problem I have with all of those scenarios..

1) chicago has a team already put together that the knicks would be lucky to have in the absolute best scenario under phil

2) Phil isn't coaching.

3) refer to #1

Maybe he doesn't want to abandon ship and try to win one here, and that's what he means by "I trust Phil", that Phil will build something here that he won't have to go to Chicago for. And Chicago isn't guaranteed, Rose can be Amare 2.0 for Melo.

People forget that if Amare stayed in 2010 form, things would be way way different. Now Melo has to assume he is going to Chicago and a guy who HAS NOT BEEN IN TRUE FORM FOR THE LAST TWO YEARS WILL RETURN TO THAT. Top that off with the fact that Noah hasn't remained fully healthy himself, with ongoing plantar fasciitis and other foot problems that bother him. He's a tough guy and plays through it most of the time, doesn't change the fact that he can go down at a moments notice and it's something that plagues him.

The scenarios are just reversed. Same shit, different toilet, so your notion that Melo is all about money hence the reason why he is signing with us and not Chicago doesn't hold any merit, there are other factors involved. Sure, money is one of them, not denying that, but to say it's the end all be all, well, then he wouldn't be taking this long to sign/agree with the Knicks, would have done it three days ago.

Maybe he doesn't want to abandon ship and try to win one here, and that's what he means by "I trust Phil", that Phil will build something here that he won't have to go to Chicago for. And Chicago isn't guaranteed, Rose can be Amare 2.0 for Melo.

then why the Free agent tour?

I am sure he was aware of the rosters on the teams he visited before this tour.. He smells the money.. hopefully he shows a shred of actually wanting to win and signs with the bulls..

tkf wrote:

mreinman wrote:the board was actually a nice friendly place for a couple of days - too bad thats over.

it can still be over for you.... use the ignore button...better yet why not address those who are starting the trouble instead of the ridiculous and mindless piling on?

Do you think this was about you??

I don't ignore anyone and I respect everyone's opinion even if they are stupid.

I like the centrists on this board and like most, find the childish bickering annoying, though just like a car wreck, its hard to turn away.