StarksEwing1 wrote:TeamBall wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:I think most people are more excited with Hardaway's continuing development and cleanthony early(steal of the draft} more than melo resigning. Hardaway was probably the only bright spot last year and so far in summer league he looks even betetr. Hu put of some muscle and looks like he is becoming a leader even though he only played one year. Early is a terrific shooter and athlete and also plays good defense. Finally we have some talented youth and i feel these 2 will help us
LOL you mean YOU are more excited about that? I don't really see where the "most" comes in.Also, I like Timmy but he's showing signs of becoming a chucker. He obviously is still capable of change but it has me a little concerned.
Dont worry man i wasnt trying to say they were better than melo or anything but im sorry taht i like young talent since we havent had much(motsly because we tarde them away for bloated contracts) I know you think i dislike melo but i dont. I just get frustrated with him because i feel there is another level he csn go to. I think he can be a good defender when he puts in the effort and he is a ery good passer but he needs to be a willing passer. Belive it or not criticism isnt a bad thing, it actually means you like the player and want to see him do better, I admit im a big hardaway fan but i have no problem pointing out his flaws
No need for the subtle jabs. You can actually respond to what I posted.
TeamBall wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:TeamBall wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:I think most people are more excited with Hardaway's continuing development and cleanthony early(steal of the draft} more than melo resigning. Hardaway was probably the only bright spot last year and so far in summer league he looks even betetr. Hu put of some muscle and looks like he is becoming a leader even though he only played one year. Early is a terrific shooter and athlete and also plays good defense. Finally we have some talented youth and i feel these 2 will help us
LOL you mean YOU are more excited about that? I don't really see where the "most" comes in.Also, I like Timmy but he's showing signs of becoming a chucker. He obviously is still capable of change but it has me a little concerned.
Dont worry man i wasnt trying to say they were better than melo or anything but im sorry taht i like young talent since we havent had much(motsly because we tarde them away for bloated contracts) I know you think i dislike melo but i dont. I just get frustrated with him because i feel there is another level he csn go to. I think he can be a good defender when he puts in the effort and he is a ery good passer but he needs to be a willing passer. Belive it or not criticism isnt a bad thing, it actually means you like the player and want to see him do better, I admit im a big hardaway fan but i have no problem pointing out his flaws
No need for the subtle jabs. You can actually respond to what I posted.
No jabs at all i think you are one of the most informative posters on here. I was mostly referring to other teams fans. For example one of my best friends is a nets fans and he always overrates deron williams
Melo staying on is a great thing for the franchise. We don't need to worry about having a star player who can take over games when needed. We also still have JR who despite last year is a VERY talented player and I think he'll thrive in a system where things are simplified for him. The same goes for all of our players. This switch to the Triangle is more important than most realize. It makes things easier for calderon, STAT and Bargs too. The roles are clearly defined and our players will constantly be moving and passing the ball as that is what the offense is by nature. When we get stuck that's when Melo, JR etc will have to rely on their creative skills, but it's not going to be the same stand around and watch the ball get pounded into the court.
Regarding the defense i'm curious how this team will defend under Fisher. It doesn't look like they'll be running that dumb switching defense. So far in SL they've been very good at playing D as a team at the same time being responsible for their man assignment. Guys are fighting over picks and help is there to close off penetration. It's a more solid defensive style. We'll see how it goes this year. However, let's keep things in perspective. This is only a one year proposition. After this season we get to reset the deck and that can't be underestimated. Things are better and Knick fans need to accept this new reality. Stop the self hate and Melo hate.
nixluva wrote:Melo staying on is a great thing for the franchise. We don't need to worry about having a star player who can take over games when needed. We also still have JR who despite last year is a VERY talented player and I think he'll thrive in a system where things are simplified for him. The same goes for all of our players. This switch to the Triangle is more important than most realize. It makes things easier for calderon, STAT and Bargs too. The roles are clearly defined and our players will constantly be moving and passing the ball as that is what the offense is by nature. When we get stuck that's when Melo, JR etc will have to rely on their creative skills, but it's not going to be the same stand around and watch the ball get pounded into the court.Regarding the defense i'm curious how this team will defend under Fisher. It doesn't look like they'll be running that dumb switching defense. So far in SL they've been very good at playing D as a team at the same time being responsible for their man assignment. Guys are fighting over picks and help is there to close off penetration. It's a more solid defensive style. We'll see how it goes this year. However, let's keep things in perspective. This is only a one year proposition. After this season we get to reset the deck and that can't be underestimated. Things are better and Knick fans need to accept this new reality. Stop the self hate and Melo hate.
I think the accusations of melo hate are way overblown. There might be 1 or 2 posters who are melo haters and believe me i dont like them either because they arent talking about the Knicks seriously. However i think 90% of people were simply asking melo to live by his word to take less which isnt a bad thing. Beleve me i wish we didnt have a salary cap but unfortunetly we do. I think most are happy Melo is here and the contract isnt terrible but you cant blame people for wishing he took less so phil could build even better around him. I just feel like i have to defend good/informative posters who dont hate teh guy but just pointing out different options to get teh knicks on top faster thats all
StarksEwing1 wrote:nixluva wrote:Melo staying on is a great thing for the franchise. We don't need to worry about having a star player who can take over games when needed. We also still have JR who despite last year is a VERY talented player and I think he'll thrive in a system where things are simplified for him. The same goes for all of our players. This switch to the Triangle is more important than most realize. It makes things easier for calderon, STAT and Bargs too. The roles are clearly defined and our players will constantly be moving and passing the ball as that is what the offense is by nature. When we get stuck that's when Melo, JR etc will have to rely on their creative skills, but it's not going to be the same stand around and watch the ball get pounded into the court.Regarding the defense i'm curious how this team will defend under Fisher. It doesn't look like they'll be running that dumb switching defense. So far in SL they've been very good at playing D as a team at the same time being responsible for their man assignment. Guys are fighting over picks and help is there to close off penetration. It's a more solid defensive style. We'll see how it goes this year. However, let's keep things in perspective. This is only a one year proposition. After this season we get to reset the deck and that can't be underestimated. Things are better and Knick fans need to accept this new reality. Stop the self hate and Melo hate.
I think the accusations of melo hate are way overblown. There might be 1 or 2 posters who are melo haters and believe me i dont like them either because they arent talking about the Knicks seriously. However i think 90% of people were simply asking melo to live by his word to take less which isnt a bad thing. Beleve me i wish we didnt have a salary cap but unfortunetly we do. I think most are happy Melo is here and the contract isnt terrible but you cant blame people for wishing he took less so phil could build even better around him. I just feel like i have to defend good/informative posters who dont hate teh guy but just pointing out different options to get teh knicks on top faster thats all
Wen I speak of Melo haters it's not just on this forum. However, that isn't the whole story. Melo's contract isn't going to be the limiting factor in our ability to improve this team. That's just the simplistic way some tend to look at it. It's not just about signing big money FA's. It's about managing your cap by finding and developing young cheap talent on affordable contracts. Young studs like Kawhi are what you want to try and focus on. I think we'll been doing that with THJ and Early as they develop. Also vets like a Diaw that can be glue type players tho not expensive. It's up to Fish and Phil to keep finding that kind of bargain in the draft and elsewhere.
StarksEwing1 wrote:smackeddog wrote:mreinman wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:I think most people are more excited with Hardaway's continuing development and cleanthony early(steal of the draft} more than melo resigning. Hardaway was probably the only bright spot last year and so far in summer league he looks even betetr. Hu put of some muscle and looks like he is becoming a leader even though he only played one year. Early is a terrific shooter and athlete and also plays good defense. Finally we have some talented youth and i feel these 2 will help us
I am more excited about Early than THJ. Fans overrate him as always.
I'm not a fan of Tim Jr- I just see a streaky chucker who plays zero defense. I usually like our rookies, but I could never really get excited about him last season.
Well i guess there are a few who dont like him but i think he was one of the positives in a bad season. His defense was bad but he will improve. Watching him in teh summe rleague he is very vocal and is not afraid to get in the face of the rookies. Kid has a good makeup and his scoring will be needed. Also 99% of theknciks dont play defense. Shumpert is porbably our best defender. I mean we knwo Bargs melo and amare dont play defense so they all need to improve
The Greek is our best defender (which is really sad), shumpert has severely regressed.
nixluva wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:nixluva wrote:Melo staying on is a great thing for the franchise. We don't need to worry about having a star player who can take over games when needed. We also still have JR who despite last year is a VERY talented player and I think he'll thrive in a system where things are simplified for him. The same goes for all of our players. This switch to the Triangle is more important than most realize. It makes things easier for calderon, STAT and Bargs too. The roles are clearly defined and our players will constantly be moving and passing the ball as that is what the offense is by nature. When we get stuck that's when Melo, JR etc will have to rely on their creative skills, but it's not going to be the same stand around and watch the ball get pounded into the court.Regarding the defense i'm curious how this team will defend under Fisher. It doesn't look like they'll be running that dumb switching defense. So far in SL they've been very good at playing D as a team at the same time being responsible for their man assignment. Guys are fighting over picks and help is there to close off penetration. It's a more solid defensive style. We'll see how it goes this year. However, let's keep things in perspective. This is only a one year proposition. After this season we get to reset the deck and that can't be underestimated. Things are better and Knick fans need to accept this new reality. Stop the self hate and Melo hate.
I think the accusations of melo hate are way overblown. There might be 1 or 2 posters who are melo haters and believe me i dont like them either because they arent talking about the Knicks seriously. However i think 90% of people were simply asking melo to live by his word to take less which isnt a bad thing. Beleve me i wish we didnt have a salary cap but unfortunetly we do. I think most are happy Melo is here and the contract isnt terrible but you cant blame people for wishing he took less so phil could build even better around him. I just feel like i have to defend good/informative posters who dont hate teh guy but just pointing out different options to get teh knicks on top faster thats all
Wen I speak of Melo haters it's not just on this forum. However, that isn't the whole story. Melo's contract isn't going to be the limiting factor in our ability to improve this team. That's just the simplistic way some tend to look at it. It's not just about signing big money FA's. It's about managing your cap by finding and developing young cheap talent on affordable contracts. Young studs like Kawhi are what you want to try and focus on. I think we'll been doing that with THJ and Early as they develop. Also vets like a Diaw that can be glue type players tho not expensive. It's up to Fish and Phil to keep finding that kind of bargain in the draft and elsewhere.
My point is why get upset at people who are simply looking out for the Knicks payroll? I mean The Spurs are probably teh best run organization because a lot of their top players take paycuts and tahst why they win for 20 years. personally i think you overreact with the so called "melo haters" There are a few knuckleheads who just bash melo but the rest are just knicks fans who points out flaws like any other player has. i agree its important to have a player of his caliber on board with us but he doesnt sh^t diamonds
nixluva wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:nixluva wrote:Melo staying on is a great thing for the franchise. We don't need to worry about having a star player who can take over games when needed. We also still have JR who despite last year is a VERY talented player and I think he'll thrive in a system where things are simplified for him. The same goes for all of our players. This switch to the Triangle is more important than most realize. It makes things easier for calderon, STAT and Bargs too. The roles are clearly defined and our players will constantly be moving and passing the ball as that is what the offense is by nature. When we get stuck that's when Melo, JR etc will have to rely on their creative skills, but it's not going to be the same stand around and watch the ball get pounded into the court.Regarding the defense i'm curious how this team will defend under Fisher. It doesn't look like they'll be running that dumb switching defense. So far in SL they've been very good at playing D as a team at the same time being responsible for their man assignment. Guys are fighting over picks and help is there to close off penetration. It's a more solid defensive style. We'll see how it goes this year. However, let's keep things in perspective. This is only a one year proposition. After this season we get to reset the deck and that can't be underestimated. Things are better and Knick fans need to accept this new reality. Stop the self hate and Melo hate.
I think the accusations of melo hate are way overblown. There might be 1 or 2 posters who are melo haters and believe me i dont like them either because they arent talking about the Knicks seriously. However i think 90% of people were simply asking melo to live by his word to take less which isnt a bad thing. Beleve me i wish we didnt have a salary cap but unfortunetly we do. I think most are happy Melo is here and the contract isnt terrible but you cant blame people for wishing he took less so phil could build even better around him. I just feel like i have to defend good/informative posters who dont hate teh guy but just pointing out different options to get teh knicks on top faster thats all
Wen I speak of Melo haters it's not just on this forum. However, that isn't the whole story. Melo's contract isn't going to be the limiting factor in our ability to improve this team. That's just the simplistic way some tend to look at it. It's not just about signing big money FA's. It's about managing your cap by finding and developing young cheap talent on affordable contracts. Young studs like Kawhi are what you want to try and focus on. I think we'll been doing that with THJ and Early as they develop. Also vets like a Diaw that can be glue type players tho not expensive. It's up to Fish and Phil to keep finding that kind of bargain in the draft and elsewhere.
your argument is beyond stupid because it's premise basically equates melo's value, dollar for dollar, to that of a duncan, a ginobili, a parker.
mreinman wrote:IMHO, for this not to be a complete disaster, the knicks need to make it to the ECF twice in the next 5 years.
Gotta love Knick fans. Go a decade without the playoffs and now let's bitch about the conference finals.
fishmike wrote:mreinman wrote:IMHO, for this not to be a complete disaster, the knicks need to make it to the ECF twice in the next 5 years.
Gotta love Knick fans. Go a decade without the playoffs and now let's bitch about the conference finals.
mreinman is one of the better knick fans out there so you are way off base
dk7th wrote:nixluva wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:nixluva wrote:Melo staying on is a great thing for the franchise. We don't need to worry about having a star player who can take over games when needed. We also still have JR who despite last year is a VERY talented player and I think he'll thrive in a system where things are simplified for him. The same goes for all of our players. This switch to the Triangle is more important than most realize. It makes things easier for calderon, STAT and Bargs too. The roles are clearly defined and our players will constantly be moving and passing the ball as that is what the offense is by nature. When we get stuck that's when Melo, JR etc will have to rely on their creative skills, but it's not going to be the same stand around and watch the ball get pounded into the court.Regarding the defense i'm curious how this team will defend under Fisher. It doesn't look like they'll be running that dumb switching defense. So far in SL they've been very good at playing D as a team at the same time being responsible for their man assignment. Guys are fighting over picks and help is there to close off penetration. It's a more solid defensive style. We'll see how it goes this year. However, let's keep things in perspective. This is only a one year proposition. After this season we get to reset the deck and that can't be underestimated. Things are better and Knick fans need to accept this new reality. Stop the self hate and Melo hate.
I think the accusations of melo hate are way overblown. There might be 1 or 2 posters who are melo haters and believe me i dont like them either because they arent talking about the Knicks seriously. However i think 90% of people were simply asking melo to live by his word to take less which isnt a bad thing. Beleve me i wish we didnt have a salary cap but unfortunetly we do. I think most are happy Melo is here and the contract isnt terrible but you cant blame people for wishing he took less so phil could build even better around him. I just feel like i have to defend good/informative posters who dont hate teh guy but just pointing out different options to get teh knicks on top faster thats all
Wen I speak of Melo haters it's not just on this forum. However, that isn't the whole story. Melo's contract isn't going to be the limiting factor in our ability to improve this team. That's just the simplistic way some tend to look at it. It's not just about signing big money FA's. It's about managing your cap by finding and developing young cheap talent on affordable contracts. Young studs like Kawhi are what you want to try and focus on. I think we'll been doing that with THJ and Early as they develop. Also vets like a Diaw that can be glue type players tho not expensive. It's up to Fish and Phil to keep finding that kind of bargain in the draft and elsewhere.
your argument is beyond stupid because it's premise basically equates melo's value, dollar for dollar, to that of a duncan, a ginobili, a parker.
Actually it's your response that is beyond stupid. Because you are. I see your world is in full tilt. Why not let the boys talk about hoops? Typical short dick sore loser. Get over yourself.
fishmike wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:fishmike wrote:mreinman wrote:IMHO, for this not to be a complete disaster, the knicks need to make it to the ECF twice in the next 5 years.
Gotta love Knick fans. Go a decade without the playoffs and now let's bitch about the conference finals.
mreinman is one of the better knick fans out there so you are way off base
Off base on what?
Because he isnt bitching he is right if we dont at least get the conference finals in teh next 5 years after hiring phil and all the money we gave melo then it will be a failure
StarksEwing1 wrote:fishmike wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:fishmike wrote:mreinman wrote:IMHO, for this not to be a complete disaster, the knicks need to make it to the ECF twice in the next 5 years.
Gotta love Knick fans. Go a decade without the playoffs and now let's bitch about the conference finals.
mreinman is one of the better knick fans out there so you are way off base
Off base on what?
Because he isnt bitching he is right if we dont at least get the conference finals in teh next 5 years after hiring phil and all the money we gave melo then it will be a failure
So it's more feasible we are in at least 2 conference finals by letting Melo walk? Do explain. I want to hear this plan that only drafts good players and has Durant and Rondo and Deandre Jordan as FAs... Something like that?
Lay out your two conference finals in five years or failure plan:
I'll grab a beer...
fishmike wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:fishmike wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:fishmike wrote:mreinman wrote:IMHO, for this not to be a complete disaster, the knicks need to make it to the ECF twice in the next 5 years.
Gotta love Knick fans. Go a decade without the playoffs and now let's bitch about the conference finals.
mreinman is one of the better knick fans out there so you are way off base
Off base on what?
Because he isnt bitching he is right if we dont at least get the conference finals in teh next 5 years after hiring phil and all the money we gave melo then it will be a failure
So it's more feasible we are in at least 2 conference finals by letting Melo walk? Do explain. I want to hear this plan that only drafts good players and has Durant and Rondo and Deandre Jordan as FAs... Something like that?Lay out your two conference finals in five years or failure plan:
I'll grab a beer...
Gotta read carefully pal. I never said we should let melo walk. I simply agreed with mreinman that we should get to teh ECF within this 5 year stretch WITH Melo. I mean Phil said soemthign similar when he took teh job
StarksEwing1 wrote:fishmike wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:fishmike wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:fishmike wrote:mreinman wrote:IMHO, for this not to be a complete disaster, the knicks need to make it to the ECF twice in the next 5 years.
Gotta love Knick fans. Go a decade without the playoffs and now let's bitch about the conference finals.
mreinman is one of the better knick fans out there so you are way off base
Off base on what?
Because he isnt bitching he is right if we dont at least get the conference finals in teh next 5 years after hiring phil and all the money we gave melo then it will be a failure
So it's more feasible we are in at least 2 conference finals by letting Melo walk? Do explain. I want to hear this plan that only drafts good players and has Durant and Rondo and Deandre Jordan as FAs... Something like that?Lay out your two conference finals in five years or failure plan:
I'll grab a beer...
Gotta read carefully pal. I never said we should let melo walk. I simply agreed with mreinman that we should get to teh ECF within this 5 year stretch WITH Melo. I mean Phil said soemthign similar when he took teh job
I read perfectly clear. He said anything less then two conf finals in two years is a failure. You said he's not bitching and he was right. So I want you to explain how your comment, because it strikes me as bitching. Where are you drawing that benchmark of failure from?
All is hear is anti Melo ranting there.
I'm a Yankee/giant fan. I want titles. But watching those teams I have also learned there is a process. It's funny. I'm not half the Melo fan you think I am. I thought we got fleeced in the trade. But Knicks fans have zero perspective. They are stuck in the Ewing era. What do you think a non-knick fan sees? A decade of losing and the Knicks get Melo. They get better, have some winning seasons but not elite. The only consistent contributor during the winning and some fans would see him gone for more twenty win seasons wondering if Tim hardaways 20ppg mean anything.
It has been claimed that according to Bradford Doolitle(ESPN Insider) Melo is worth a $130M so the knicks may have gotten a steal.
The bottom line is that Melo was going to be paid a lot of money by other teams and if they could pay him what we did, it's clear they would've offered. To complain about what our best player is making is just stupid. He's one guy and we have an entire team of players who will be making less. Once we get past this season STAT and Bargs come off and we have a lot of very cap friendly contracts. This team isn't really locked into anyone except Melo long term.
2015-16 2016-17 2017-18
Carmelo Anthony ?
Shane Larkin $1,675,320 $2,576,642 (TO) $3,656,255 (QO)
Tim Hardaway Jr $1,304,520 $2,281,605 (TO) $3,335,707 (QO)
Jose Calderon $7,402,812 $7,708,427
JR Smith $6,399,750
Iman Shumpert $3,898,691
Pablo Prigioni $1,734,572
Cleanthony Early ?
Cole Aldrich ?
Thanasis Antent ?
TOTALS: $15,537,134 $7,708,427
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.h...
And nix there are reports the cap could hit $80mm after the tv deal.
