http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/...I'd hang onto Larkin. His potential exceeds his current trade value. I'm encouraged by the way he played at PG in Summer league and I think he's the perfect player to pair with the deliberate and measured PG play of Calderon. Larkin can change the pace of the game and is a pest. Makes him the perfect contrast.
In terms of Smith, he's a headache, but my opinion is he will bring back less in a trade than he has the potential to give you on the floor. IN a more disciplined offensive system, he could really flourish. He's also not coming off injury this year, and on top of that he's got a player option at the end of the season so he's playing for a salary raise. All signs point to a season more like 2012-2013 than 2013-2014.
Shumpert, well Phil has been talking him up- and perhaps on purpose. He's very inconsistent lacks confidence on the offensive end. Is he the odd man out?
On another note the article says Hardaway is untouchable and doesn't mention Ellington or Brown, whom I imagine are out the door.
I'm okay with any 1 if not 2 of them being moved.
Reasons for trading Shumpert.
He hasn't improved since his first year in league, has a high cap hit for 2015 cap space
Reasons for trading Smith.
He is an overall distraction on and off the court, if he opts in takes away cap space in 2015
Reasons for trading Larkin.
May have the most trade value of the 3 at this stage, but if his option is picked up takes away cap space in 2015
The primary concern for trading all 3 besides redundancy revolves around cap space.
If Melo's 2015 $1.4mil give back will do us good, having someone like Larking off the books at $1.7mil would do much the same
Does anyone believe J.R. has real value by himself in a trade? Probably not.
An asset will have to accompany him, so the likelihood he's traded is null and void.
I don't understand this:
Tim Hardaway Jr. has been deemed virtually untouchable, per a source.
THJr had a decent rookie year but nothing to really celebrate. He showed a decent touch on wide open 3s, and he was much better than Shumpert, and that he's good in transition. In literally every other aspect of the game he ranges from bad to godawful. Unless he develops an ability to pass the ball effectively and/or improves his defense from non-existent to bad I don't think he has much of a future. If anything, we should be looking to move him because his value is likely never to be higher.
Larkin cap expense is only a problem if he is not good but even then he could still be cut n stretched.
yellowboy90 wrote:Larkin cap expense is only a problem if he is not good but even then he could still be cut n stretched.
We have a team option for him next season so we can just cut him if he shows nothing this season.
VCoug wrote:I don't understand this:Tim Hardaway Jr. has been deemed virtually untouchable, per a source.
THJr had a decent rookie year but nothing to really celebrate. He showed a decent touch on wide open 3s, and he was much better than Shumpert, and that he's good in transition. In literally every other aspect of the game he ranges from bad to godawful. Unless he develops an ability to pass the ball effectively and/or improves his defense from non-existent to bad I don't think he has much of a future. If anything, we should be looking to move him because his value is likely never to be higher.
Another way to manufacture/increase trade value. Also, the staff may like what they have seen in practice and want to mold him into something.
VCoug wrote:I don't understand this:Tim Hardaway Jr. has been deemed virtually untouchable, per a source.
THJr had a decent rookie year but nothing to really celebrate. He showed a decent touch on wide open 3s, and he was much better than Shumpert, and that he's good in transition. In literally every other aspect of the game he ranges from bad to godawful. Unless he develops an ability to pass the ball effectively and/or improves his defense from non-existent to bad I don't think he has much of a future. If anything, we should be looking to move him because his value is likely never to be higher.
+1. I still wish we would've acquired Aaron Afflalo (for next to nothing) and then used THJr as bait to either dump Amare's contract or bring in another starter from a rebuilding team or a player that is disgruntled about his situation (e.g. a Thaddeus Young or Greg Monroe).
VCoug wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:Larkin cap expense is only a problem if he is not good but even then he could still be cut n stretched.
We have a team option for him next season so we can just cut him if he shows nothing this season.
If you cut him, you get nothing for him.
If he's in trade discussions it's to retain the value given up
I'd rather have a pick,[low 1st or couple 2nd rounders 2015 and 20XX something else] to go with our own now.
I don't want to wait to see if a player is bad and cut him
All signs points to Shump being traded.....I keep saying it. He's the easiest to move. We have shooting guards here that can do what he does.
F500ONE wrote:VCoug wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:Larkin cap expense is only a problem if he is not good but even then he could still be cut n stretched.
We have a team option for him next season so we can just cut him if he shows nothing this season.
If you cut him, you get nothing for him.
If he's in trade discussions it's to retain the value given up
I'd rather have a pick,[low 1st or couple 2nd rounders 2015 and 20XX something else] to go with our own now.
I don't want to wait to see if a player is bad and cut him
Oh yeah, I completely agree. I was just explaining we don't need to use the stretch provision on him.
yellowboy90 wrote:VCoug wrote:I don't understand this:Tim Hardaway Jr. has been deemed virtually untouchable, per a source.
THJr had a decent rookie year but nothing to really celebrate. He showed a decent touch on wide open 3s, and he was much better than Shumpert, and that he's good in transition. In literally every other aspect of the game he ranges from bad to godawful. Unless he develops an ability to pass the ball effectively and/or improves his defense from non-existent to bad I don't think he has much of a future. If anything, we should be looking to move him because his value is likely never to be higher.
Another way to manufacture/increase trade value. Also, the staff may like what they have seen in practice and want to mold him into something.
This is what I'm hoping, that it's just a ploy to improve his trade value.
VCoug wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:VCoug wrote:I don't understand this:Tim Hardaway Jr. has been deemed virtually untouchable, per a source.
THJr had a decent rookie year but nothing to really celebrate. He showed a decent touch on wide open 3s, and he was much better than Shumpert, and that he's good in transition. In literally every other aspect of the game he ranges from bad to godawful. Unless he develops an ability to pass the ball effectively and/or improves his defense from non-existent to bad I don't think he has much of a future. If anything, we should be looking to move him because his value is likely never to be higher.
Another way to manufacture/increase trade value. Also, the staff may like what they have seen in practice and want to mold him into something.
This is what I'm hoping, that it's just a ploy to improve his trade value.
The upcoming USA Team practices will be huge if he shows out and competes on a high level his stock will go through the roof but he may also prove to teams that he is only an offensive bench player.
Why trade any of them during a summer when their stock is low as sht. Why not wait until camp, or some where around december.
Ian Begley has been so late and off the mark, it's not even funny. First he reported kerr was a done deal, then he reported melo was leaning towards the Bulls, 2 days later it was the Lakers.
Why isn't Ellingtons name even being discuss as a possible trade, i don't see anything with wrong with shump and JR alternating back up SF.
The way we encounter injuries, trust me, we will never have a surplus of players at any position. Even with tyler we have a roster spot open.
knicks1248 wrote:Why trade any of them during a summer when their stock is low as sht. Why not wait until camp, or some where around december.
Because you can't play 4 guards and increase their stock, impossible
Why isn't Ellingtons name even being discuss as a possible trade, i don't see anything with wrong with shump and JR alternating back up SF.
You think Ellington has peak value now? You don't think Shump and Larkin can get more than Ellington?
Small forward positions will be locked up by Melo and C-Earl
Trying to boost trade value or using shump and Smith at back up small fwd is not withing basketball moves.
We need a legit backup for melo....A one year stop gap to transition Early. We need guys to pay their natural positions. Not just throw guys in spots because that's "good enough".
The argument about "we're not winning anything next year" is a lower attitude that was attached to the old way of thinking. We need to think realistically and think about how we can maximize or winning potential this season, not look into the future hoping Jesus comes back to wash away or sins.
EnySpree wrote:All signs points to Shump being traded.....I keep saying it. He's the easiest to move. We have shooting guards here that can do what he does.
What shooting guards do we have that can do what Shump does?? When Shump is focused like he was when Phil came on he's one of the best defensive players in the league. I understand that he's been inconsistent with his play especially his offense but with this new culture that we're building with Phil and Fish i truly think Shump can be one hell of an asset. If i had my choice i would do what i could to trade JR even though i think he's actually worth more than he's getting paid.
newyorker4ever wrote:EnySpree wrote:All signs points to Shump being traded.....I keep saying it. He's the easiest to move. We have shooting guards here that can do what he does.
What shooting guards do we have that can do what Shump does?? When Shump is focused like he was when Phil came on he's one of the best defensive players in the league. I understand that he's been inconsistent with his play especially his offense but with this new culture that we're building with Phil and Fish i truly think Shump can be one hell of an asset. If i had my choice i would do what i could to trade JR even though i think he's actually worth more than he's getting paid.
What does Shump do? His defense is overrated and when he's focused he's still only a marginal rule player. When JR is focused he's all star caliber.
Wellington can do what shump does easy. So can Shannon Brown. Hit shots, blend in and play defense. That's their jobs. Shump isn't the difference maker in any aspect of the game and he's not head and shoulders better than these two.
There are people around the league that believe in the bullshit that shump is this defensive stalwart with untapped potential, so he can be moved easily. We need to get better. We have ThJr, Jr Smith and the option to keep wellington or Shannon....
See if we can get dunlevy, Matt barnes, delphino, or someone who can pass, cut, make shots and defend, flat out play the small fwd spot. Having a shooting guard with point guard skills playing small fwd isn't winning basketball
EnySpree wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:EnySpree wrote:All signs points to Shump being traded.....I keep saying it. He's the easiest to move. We have shooting guards here that can do what he does.
What shooting guards do we have that can do what Shump does?? When Shump is focused like he was when Phil came on he's one of the best defensive players in the league. I understand that he's been inconsistent with his play especially his offense but with this new culture that we're building with Phil and Fish i truly think Shump can be one hell of an asset. If i had my choice i would do what i could to trade JR even though i think he's actually worth more than he's getting paid.
What does Shump do? His defense is overrated and when he's focused he's still only a marginal rule player. When JR is focused he's all star caliber.
Wellington can do what shump does easy. So can Shannon Brown. Hit shots, blend in and play defense. That's their jobs. Shump isn't the difference maker in any aspect of the game and he's not head and shoulders better than these two.
There are people around the league that believe in the bullshit that shump is this defensive stalwart with untapped potential, so he can be moved easily. We need to get better. We have ThJr, Jr Smith and the option to keep wellington or Shannon....
See if we can get dunlevy, Matt barnes, delphino, or someone who can pass, cut, make shots and defend, flat out play the small fwd spot. Having a shooting guard with point guard skills playing small fwd isn't winning basketball
Are some stuck on his playoff series against Boston and his tip in against the Spurs?
I don't get it Shumpert is very much overrated, we need to get past these kind of sentimental moments
VCoug wrote:I don't understand this:Tim Hardaway Jr. has been deemed virtually untouchable, per a source.
THJr had a decent rookie year but nothing to really celebrate. He showed a decent touch on wide open 3s, and he was much better than Shumpert, and that he's good in transition. In literally every other aspect of the game he ranges from bad to godawful. Unless he develops an ability to pass the ball effectively and/or improves his defense from non-existent to bad I don't think he has much of a future. If anything, we should be looking to move him because his value is likely never to be higher.
Can't judge Hardaway Jr to critical as last season(his rookie yr) was horrible all around. He is under a rookie scale contract so it would be worth it to see his game evolve with a full year under the triangle and with Fisher & Phil behind him. There is really no reason to move him unless blown away by the offer. He seems like a kid with his head on straight and only focused on basketball as well. Could be groomed into a consistent glue type of guy.
