Papabear wrote:Papabear SaysNalod Why did you put up this thread? It's like candy land for D7th and TK LOL.
My take is this, there was not any team in the NBA who would not give Melo 20 million if they had to give and Melo wanted to come to them. I think that Phil knows how to build around Melo and Melo and the Knicks will be ok. Enough of this hate sh!t. If you don't like the man find another team. It not healthy to have all of this hate in your heart. I mean 24/7 when do they work? This is Phils dream and he knows that if he wins a chip here in New York they will build a statue of him and Melo.
Yes, "Hate Metric" makes it spicy and mucho Sexy!
Its a hack job for sure and "Putting out the fire with Gasoline".........
I posted it cuz, I posted it.
Papabear wrote:Papabear SaysIt seems to me that Paul George is not a good roll model. Making babies, screwing his centers girl friend. That child support is going to weigh heavy on him this season. His girlfriend broke up with him. Now for Melo his 1.29 pp is going to get better and he respects woman and his friends woman. 
we talking role model now? i thought this thread was about value. paul george is going to earn 13.7 million this season-- that's for a two-way player who elevates his game in the playoffs, as compared to our one-way player who is going to make 22 million plus, whose game goes bye-bye in the playoffs.
if you were being honest, you would prefer paul george as a knick over carmelo....
dk7th wrote:Papabear wrote:Papabear SaysIt seems to me that Paul George is not a good roll model. Making babies, screwing his centers girl friend. That child support is going to weigh heavy on him this season. His girlfriend broke up with him. Now for Melo his 1.29 pp is going to get better and he respects woman and his friends woman.
we talking role model now? i thought this thread was about value. paul george is going to earn 13.7 million this season-- that's for a two-way player who elevates his game in the playoffs, as compared to our one-way player who is going to make 22 million plus, whose game goes bye-bye in the playoffs.
if you were being honest, you would prefer paul george as a knick over carmelo....
Papabear Says
Honest? You are the most dishonest person on this forum. All you do 24/7 is talk about Melo in a bad way. Get this through your head Melo is the leader of our team. The King.
Ha Ha I know you hate that. As far as what Paul George has done for the Pacers last season was nothing but drama. He is the Jr Smith of the Pacers. Screwing around with his friends girl. Knocking up a club dancer. Got served the papers right at a game during the playoffs. How does that help the pacers. This crap has gone through Georges head. If you like him so much why don't you join the Pacers forum and stop complaining about the Knicks. Any way Melo is here for 5 long years. So relax and enjoy it. Being angry and hateful all the time is bad for your health. And when you are sick you can't get a job. LOL is that you? LOL you fit the profile. no no no I take that back. I will just say you sound like a broken record that keeps going back to the same spot or a sample that is repeated over and over again and people are just so tired of it that they just ignore it. We know who you are and what you are. I'm worried about you. 5 years is a long time to just hate someone.
dk7th wrote:Papabear wrote:Papabear SaysIt seems to me that Paul George is not a good roll model. Making babies, screwing his centers girl friend. That child support is going to weigh heavy on him this season. His girlfriend broke up with him. Now for Melo his 1.29 pp is going to get better and he respects woman and his friends woman.
we talking role model now? i thought this thread was about value. paul george is going to earn 13.7 million this season-- that's for a two-way player who elevates his game in the playoffs, as compared to our one-way player who is going to make 22 million plus, whose game goes bye-bye in the playoffs.
if you were being honest, you would prefer paul george as a knick over carmelo....
If you're being fair, you compare their context values at the same point in their careers- the reason Melo's is so high is because it's his 3rd max contract and his first two started in the old cba. It's still too much, but it's pointless comparing it to a player who's just signed their first max unless your plan is only to sign top players for 3 or 4 years then let them walk.
Bottom line is each player is unique to his team, market demand and position of leverage. Paul George is a hell of a player and got his deal when he did because of the extension and potential.
Gordan Haywood got similar because of his youth and potential but also manned up and risked not signing a lower extension offer from last year and went restricted. Got him a good offer from Hornets.
Melo is who he is and not worth the money, but what is the alternative? Let him walk? There was not trade for him either. We also paid a good price to get him. Franchise is better with him then without. Some of you prefer he signed at a lower price but he had the leverage, the health and the scoring average on his side. Other teams wanted him. FOr all the moaning about the CBA it kept him in New york.
If that satisfies the 75% of fans thats a good deal.
Melo is worth the money because that's what it took to get him considering he had other options. Aside from Lebron we couldn't have gotten a better player in their prime IMO. The next 3 years if Phil and Fish do their job we should get the best Melo ever. The goal is a more efficient and effective Melo with a solid supporting team. That was part of the equation too. It's not just the player in a vacuum. It's what that player does to impact your overall team structure and how u play. Based on Phil's use of the Triangle Melo is a key cog in making that work at a high level.
dk7th wrote:Papabear wrote:Papabear SaysIt seems to me that Paul George is not a good roll model. Making babies, screwing his centers girl friend. That child support is going to weigh heavy on him this season. His girlfriend broke up with him. Now for Melo his 1.29 pp is going to get better and he respects woman and his friends woman.
we talking role model now? i thought this thread was about value. paul george is going to earn 13.7 million this season-- that's for a two-way player who elevates his game in the playoffs, as compared to our one-way player who is going to make 22 million plus, whose game goes bye-bye in the playoffs.
if you were being honest, you would prefer paul george as a knick over carmelo....
Its all about per dollar value. even if you think Melo is better than George is he 9 million dollars better?
Jmpasq wrote:dk7th wrote:Papabear wrote:Papabear SaysIt seems to me that Paul George is not a good roll model. Making babies, screwing his centers girl friend. That child support is going to weigh heavy on him this season. His girlfriend broke up with him. Now for Melo his 1.29 pp is going to get better and he respects woman and his friends woman.
we talking role model now? i thought this thread was about value. paul george is going to earn 13.7 million this season-- that's for a two-way player who elevates his game in the playoffs, as compared to our one-way player who is going to make 22 million plus, whose game goes bye-bye in the playoffs.
if you were being honest, you would prefer paul george as a knick over carmelo....
Its all about per dollar value. even if you think Melo is better than George is he 9 million dollars better?
maybe in fantasy world. This is the real world. When Paul George is eligible for that kind of money he will take it. They always do.
Bosh, Parsons, Melo, Hayward... if your elite talent in this league your getting paid, regardless of fans "percieved" value. Bledsoe and Stephenson think they are max guys.. or will be soon.
So now we are wanking over Paul George again?
If the money NBA players make offends my advice would be to watch college or get over yourself. Its not going away.
fishmike wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Last year there metrics predicted 37 winsWe won 37 games
and those were off by 20+ wins for about half the other teams. So yea.. they got the KNicks right and were so far off on many of the others whats the point? They were nowhere close the year before either.Go show me the start of year win totaly predictions. Its a good laugh.
Guns.. whats your issue? You cant believe Phil knows what he's doing unless ESPN says he does?
ESPN's system was off by an average of 6.8 wins. Don't forget most fans here were off by about 10 to 20 wins for the Knicks last season.
Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Last year there metrics predicted 37 winsWe won 37 games
and those were off by 20+ wins for about half the other teams. So yea.. they got the KNicks right and were so far off on many of the others whats the point? They were nowhere close the year before either.Go show me the start of year win totaly predictions. Its a good laugh.
Guns.. whats your issue? You cant believe Phil knows what he's doing unless ESPN says he does?
ESPN's system was off by an average of 6.8 wins. Don't forget most fans here were off by about 10 to 20 wins for the Knicks last season.
Yeah but posters here are fans of the Knicks and optimistic. My projections for say the Nets or Wizards would be a lot more accurate just because emotion is taken out of it.
CrushAlot wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Last year there metrics predicted 37 winsWe won 37 games
and those were off by 20+ wins for about half the other teams. So yea.. they got the KNicks right and were so far off on many of the others whats the point? They were nowhere close the year before either.Go show me the start of year win totaly predictions. Its a good laugh.
Guns.. whats your issue? You cant believe Phil knows what he's doing unless ESPN says he does?
ESPN's system was off by an average of 6.8 wins. Don't forget most fans here were off by about 10 to 20 wins for the Knicks last season.
Yeah but posters here are fans of the Knicks and optimistic. My projections for say the Nets or Wizards would be a lot more accurate just because emotion is taken out of it.
You sure about that? The alternative way of looking at it is that fans here had the whole off-season to study one team. Imagine how bad they'd be if they hate to focus on 30 teams!
Regardless, though, your statement suggests that fans should use the metrics rather than their own biases when evaluating anything about their own teams (like Melo's contract).
Bonn1997 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Last year there metrics predicted 37 winsWe won 37 games
and those were off by 20+ wins for about half the other teams. So yea.. they got the KNicks right and were so far off on many of the others whats the point? They were nowhere close the year before either.Go show me the start of year win totaly predictions. Its a good laugh.
Guns.. whats your issue? You cant believe Phil knows what he's doing unless ESPN says he does?
ESPN's system was off by an average of 6.8 wins. Don't forget most fans here were off by about 10 to 20 wins for the Knicks last season.
Yeah but posters here are fans of the Knicks and optimistic. My projections for say the Nets or Wizards would be a lot more accurate just because emotion is taken out of it.
You sure about that? The alternative way of looking at it is that fans here had the whole off-season to study one team. Imagine how bad they'd be if they hate to focus on 30 teams!
Regardless, though, your statement suggests that fans should use the metrics rather than their own biases when evaluating anything about their own teams (like Melo's contract).
If targeting metrics and a formulated system to reach more accurate numbers is the goal, emotions should never factor in.
Bonn1997 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Last year there metrics predicted 37 winsWe won 37 games
and those were off by 20+ wins for about half the other teams. So yea.. they got the KNicks right and were so far off on many of the others whats the point? They were nowhere close the year before either.Go show me the start of year win totaly predictions. Its a good laugh.
Guns.. whats your issue? You cant believe Phil knows what he's doing unless ESPN says he does?
ESPN's system was off by an average of 6.8 wins. Don't forget most fans here were off by about 10 to 20 wins for the Knicks last season.
Yeah but posters here are fans of the Knicks and optimistic. My projections for say the Nets or Wizards would be a lot more accurate just because emotion is taken out of it.
You sure about that? The alternative way of looking at it is that fans here had the whole off-season to study one team. Imagine how bad they'd be if they hate to focus on 30 teams!
Regardless, though, your statement suggests that fans should use the metrics rather than their own biases when evaluating anything about their own teams (like Melo's contract).
I follow the nba and try to watch whatever game is on when the Knicks aren't. I think I would be pretty accurate. No metric for what happened with Grunwald, Woodson, Chris Smith, Tyson, and Shump etc. You might be able to predict a decline in Felton or JR but the Knicks were an Isiah Thomas like mess last year.
CrushAlot wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Last year there metrics predicted 37 winsWe won 37 games
and those were off by 20+ wins for about half the other teams. So yea.. they got the KNicks right and were so far off on many of the others whats the point? They were nowhere close the year before either.Go show me the start of year win totaly predictions. Its a good laugh.
Guns.. whats your issue? You cant believe Phil knows what he's doing unless ESPN says he does?
ESPN's system was off by an average of 6.8 wins. Don't forget most fans here were off by about 10 to 20 wins for the Knicks last season.
Yeah but posters here are fans of the Knicks and optimistic. My projections for say the Nets or Wizards would be a lot more accurate just because emotion is taken out of it.
being off by 7 wins doesnt mean much. I mean that average is padded because its not hard to come close on the elite teams. But when it comes to the middle of the pack they are all over the place. Bonn your prediction was off considerably as well. If you think this stuff is predictable it simply isnt. There are so many factors that can have a huge impact, and other things that should have a huge impact and end up being non factors. We could do this all day.
Being an veteran at sports wagering if I were to bet on the Knick win total I would put the over/under at 45 wins. Thats about right
fishmike wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Last year there metrics predicted 37 winsWe won 37 games
and those were off by 20+ wins for about half the other teams. So yea.. they got the KNicks right and were so far off on many of the others whats the point? They were nowhere close the year before either.Go show me the start of year win totaly predictions. Its a good laugh.
Guns.. whats your issue? You cant believe Phil knows what he's doing unless ESPN says he does?
ESPN's system was off by an average of 6.8 wins. Don't forget most fans here were off by about 10 to 20 wins for the Knicks last season.
Yeah but posters here are fans of the Knicks and optimistic. My projections for say the Nets or Wizards would be a lot more accurate just because emotion is taken out of it.
being off by 7 wins doesnt mean much. I mean that average is padded because its not hard to come close on the elite teams. But when it comes to the middle of the pack they are all over the place. Bonn your prediction was off considerably as well. If you think this stuff is predictable it simply isnt. There are so many factors that can have a huge impact, and other things that should have a huge impact and end up being non factors. We could do this all day.Being an veteran at sports wagering if I were to bet on the Knick win total I would put the over/under at 45 wins. Thats about right
It's predictable but not with perfect precision. A useful prediction (like "smoking increases your risk of cancer") and a perfect prediction (knowing exactly who will and who won't get cancer) are two separate things.
fishmike wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Last year there metrics predicted 37 winsWe won 37 games
and those were off by 20+ wins for about half the other teams. So yea.. they got the KNicks right and were so far off on many of the others whats the point? They were nowhere close the year before either.Go show me the start of year win totaly predictions. Its a good laugh.
Guns.. whats your issue? You cant believe Phil knows what he's doing unless ESPN says he does?
ESPN's system was off by an average of 6.8 wins. Don't forget most fans here were off by about 10 to 20 wins for the Knicks last season.
Yeah but posters here are fans of the Knicks and optimistic. My projections for say the Nets or Wizards would be a lot more accurate just because emotion is taken out of it.
being off by 7 wins doesnt mean much. I mean that average is padded because its not hard to come close on the elite teams. But when it comes to the middle of the pack they are all over the place. Bonn your prediction was off considerably as well. If you think this stuff is predictable it simply isnt. There are so many factors that can have a huge impact, and other things that should have a huge impact and end up being non factors. We could do this all day.Being an veteran at sports wagering if I were to bet on the Knick win total I would put the over/under at 45 wins. Thats about right
Why 45? Weren't you saying Melo's teams usually win 55 when he has an adequate PG and supporting cast?
Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Last year there metrics predicted 37 winsWe won 37 games
and those were off by 20+ wins for about half the other teams. So yea.. they got the KNicks right and were so far off on many of the others whats the point? They were nowhere close the year before either.Go show me the start of year win totaly predictions. Its a good laugh.
Guns.. whats your issue? You cant believe Phil knows what he's doing unless ESPN says he does?
ESPN's system was off by an average of 6.8 wins. Don't forget most fans here were off by about 10 to 20 wins for the Knicks last season.
Yeah but posters here are fans of the Knicks and optimistic. My projections for say the Nets or Wizards would be a lot more accurate just because emotion is taken out of it.
being off by 7 wins doesnt mean much. I mean that average is padded because its not hard to come close on the elite teams. But when it comes to the middle of the pack they are all over the place. Bonn your prediction was off considerably as well. If you think this stuff is predictable it simply isnt. There are so many factors that can have a huge impact, and other things that should have a huge impact and end up being non factors. We could do this all day.Being an veteran at sports wagering if I were to bet on the Knick win total I would put the over/under at 45 wins. Thats about right
Why 45? Weren't you saying Melo's teams usually win 55 when he has an adequate PG and supporting cast?
never said that. Has he ever won 55? I might have said "winning." Last year was Melo's first losing season in the NBA.
Why 45? Because the Knicks will get better. They will be better coached and have done alot to fix the issues from last year. That being said who knows what you get from Amare, Bargs, Shump or JR. I think JR gives you good play but there are a lot of guys you just dont know what your going to get. I like the direction of the team very much but they are still essentially Melo, JR, Calderon and some bigs and fresh legs. They could suprise and win 50+. They could struggle and be .500 so I picked something in between.
fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Last year there metrics predicted 37 winsWe won 37 games
and those were off by 20+ wins for about half the other teams. So yea.. they got the KNicks right and were so far off on many of the others whats the point? They were nowhere close the year before either.Go show me the start of year win totaly predictions. Its a good laugh.
Guns.. whats your issue? You cant believe Phil knows what he's doing unless ESPN says he does?
ESPN's system was off by an average of 6.8 wins. Don't forget most fans here were off by about 10 to 20 wins for the Knicks last season.
Yeah but posters here are fans of the Knicks and optimistic. My projections for say the Nets or Wizards would be a lot more accurate just because emotion is taken out of it.
being off by 7 wins doesnt mean much. I mean that average is padded because its not hard to come close on the elite teams. But when it comes to the middle of the pack they are all over the place. Bonn your prediction was off considerably as well. If you think this stuff is predictable it simply isnt. There are so many factors that can have a huge impact, and other things that should have a huge impact and end up being non factors. We could do this all day.Being an veteran at sports wagering if I were to bet on the Knick win total I would put the over/under at 45 wins. Thats about right
Why 45? Weren't you saying Melo's teams usually win 55 when he has an adequate PG and supporting cast?
never said that. Has he ever won 55? I might have said "winning." Last year was Melo's first losing season in the NBA.Why 45? Because the Knicks will get better. They will be better coached and have done alot to fix the issues from last year. That being said who knows what you get from Amare, Bargs, Shump or JR. I think JR gives you good play but there are a lot of guys you just dont know what your going to get. I like the direction of the team very much but they are still essentially Melo, JR, Calderon and some bigs and fresh legs. They could suprise and win 50+. They could struggle and be .500 so I picked something in between.
Well you cite the 54 from two years and 50s from Denver pretty often. I thought you were implying that that had relevance to our current situation.
You never know for sure what will happen but I think there is much less uncertainty than you're suggesting. For example, "who knows what you get from Amare, Bargs, Shump or JR."
Amare - Lots of injuries. If he does stay healthy, he'll put up points but give more more than he scores.
Bargs - See Amare.
Shump - It's harder to predict this for younger guys but I'd say the most likely scenario is bad offense and average defense.
JR - the overall production of an average NBA player (plus or minus a little). He'll probably have a high PPG total, though, especially if he plays a lot.
last year's Knicks O/U for vegas was 48.5 wins. This year its 49.5. The 2012 (54 win season) the vegas line was 45.5
I would say thats about right... Knicks are percieved as 'good' but clearly not elite. Last year underachieved, the year before over achieved.
I would put the Vegas predictions before metric any day of the week. You know why? Its accountable by money.
clearly Vegas believes in Phil, Fisher and more things will go right with the Knicks than wrong.
fishmike wrote:last year's Knicks O/U for vegas was 48.5 wins. This year its 49.5. The 2012 (54 win season) the vegas line was 45.5I would say thats about right... Knicks are percieved as 'good' but clearly not elite. Last year underachieved, the year before over achieved.
I would put the Vegas predictions before metric any day of the week. You know why? Its accountable by money.
Money leads to good decision-making? Interesting.
Actually, Vegas got it right only in 3 of the 10 cases where it and Schoene significantly differed last year. You can read more here.
http://statsbylopez.com/2014/04/17/2013-...
