Knicks · The Bulls are making a push for love...why not us? (page 2)

H1AND1 @ 7/22/2014 8:33 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
VCoug wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
VCoug wrote:We don't have anywhere near the assets Chicago or Cleveland has for a Love trade. Jimmy Butler is a better asset and Taj Gibson is a far better player than anyone we could include in a Love trade. Wiggins is a FAR better asset than anything we could possible give up in a Love trade.

Also Love has a de facto no trade clause since he's expiring and whatever team trades for him would want/need him to agree to a contract extension; I'd put the odds at less than 10% that he would agree to a contract extension with us. So then, we'd have to agree to give up assets in the hope that he'll sign an extension in the offseason.

Don't agree about Butler, but a package of Gibson, Mirotic, McDermott and a first trumps anything we can offer. It would give Minnesota a known quantity at PF, a solid prospect at PF and a player to address their shooting problems. But I think we've seen all summer that a package of Butler, Gibson and a first isn't getting the bulls anywhere.

I think Butler's still considered a high-upside player around the league. Not as much as he was after 2012-13 but I think it's still there. He's still a better prospect than Shump, THJr, Larkin, or Early.


Really? I think THJ on his on wouldwould pull more than Butler. I think Butler and Shump's value are about the same, a low first round pick. Butler might be a lil higher than Shump.

Butler right now is worth more than THjr, no question. He had an off year and we all love THjr but let's get real THjr can shoot and drive but in absolutely every other facet of the game he needs _a lot_ of work. Butler is like a poor mans Lance Stephenson w/o the crazy at this point and that is worth a hell of a lot more than THjr and miles more than Shump.

VCoug @ 7/22/2014 8:36 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
VCoug wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
VCoug wrote:We don't have anywhere near the assets Chicago or Cleveland has for a Love trade. Jimmy Butler is a better asset and Taj Gibson is a far better player than anyone we could include in a Love trade. Wiggins is a FAR better asset than anything we could possible give up in a Love trade.

Also Love has a de facto no trade clause since he's expiring and whatever team trades for him would want/need him to agree to a contract extension; I'd put the odds at less than 10% that he would agree to a contract extension with us. So then, we'd have to agree to give up assets in the hope that he'll sign an extension in the offseason.

Don't agree about Butler, but a package of Gibson, Mirotic, McDermott and a first trumps anything we can offer. It would give Minnesota a known quantity at PF, a solid prospect at PF and a player to address their shooting problems. But I think we've seen all summer that a package of Butler, Gibson and a first isn't getting the bulls anywhere.

I think Butler's still considered a high-upside player around the league. Not as much as he was after 2012-13 but I think it's still there. He's still a better prospect than Shump, THJr, Larkin, or Early.


Really? I think THJ on his on wouldwould pull more than Butler. I think Butler and Shump's value are about the same, a low first round pick. Butler might be a lil higher than Shump.

I don't see it. Butler's shown flashes of being a good offensive player and already is a good defensive player. THJr shoots 36% from 3 and doesn't do anything else.

BigDaddyG @ 7/22/2014 9:37 PM
VCoug wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
VCoug wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
VCoug wrote:We don't have anywhere near the assets Chicago or Cleveland has for a Love trade. Jimmy Butler is a better asset and Taj Gibson is a far better player than anyone we could include in a Love trade. Wiggins is a FAR better asset than anything we could possible give up in a Love trade.

Also Love has a de facto no trade clause since he's expiring and whatever team trades for him would want/need him to agree to a contract extension; I'd put the odds at less than 10% that he would agree to a contract extension with us. So then, we'd have to agree to give up assets in the hope that he'll sign an extension in the offseason.

Don't agree about Butler, but a package of Gibson, Mirotic, McDermott and a first trumps anything we can offer. It would give Minnesota a known quantity at PF, a solid prospect at PF and a player to address their shooting problems. But I think we've seen all summer that a package of Butler, Gibson and a first isn't getting the bulls anywhere.

I think Butler's still considered a high-upside player around the league. Not as much as he was after 2012-13 but I think it's still there. He's still a better prospect than Shump, THJr, Larkin, or Early.


Really? I think THJ on his on wouldwould pull more than Butler. I think Butler and Shump's value are about the same, a low first round pick. Butler might be a lil higher than Shump.

I don't see it. Butler's shown flashes of being a good offensive player and already is a good defensive player. THJr shoots 36% from 3 and doesn't do anything else.

Butler's offense was so bad last season that it almost negated his defense. THJ came in and already proved he is an NBA caliber shooter who can hit at decent rates anywhere in the court. He can also finish on the break and is improving. We talk about this being a big year for Shump, but this also a big year for Butler.

VCoug @ 7/22/2014 9:58 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
VCoug wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
VCoug wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
VCoug wrote:We don't have anywhere near the assets Chicago or Cleveland has for a Love trade. Jimmy Butler is a better asset and Taj Gibson is a far better player than anyone we could include in a Love trade. Wiggins is a FAR better asset than anything we could possible give up in a Love trade.

Also Love has a de facto no trade clause since he's expiring and whatever team trades for him would want/need him to agree to a contract extension; I'd put the odds at less than 10% that he would agree to a contract extension with us. So then, we'd have to agree to give up assets in the hope that he'll sign an extension in the offseason.

Don't agree about Butler, but a package of Gibson, Mirotic, McDermott and a first trumps anything we can offer. It would give Minnesota a known quantity at PF, a solid prospect at PF and a player to address their shooting problems. But I think we've seen all summer that a package of Butler, Gibson and a first isn't getting the bulls anywhere.

I think Butler's still considered a high-upside player around the league. Not as much as he was after 2012-13 but I think it's still there. He's still a better prospect than Shump, THJr, Larkin, or Early.


Really? I think THJ on his on wouldwould pull more than Butler. I think Butler and Shump's value are about the same, a low first round pick. Butler might be a lil higher than Shump.

I don't see it. Butler's shown flashes of being a good offensive player and already is a good defensive player. THJr shoots 36% from 3 and doesn't do anything else.

Butler's offense was so bad last season that it almost negated his defense. THJ came in and already proved he is an NBA caliber shooter who can hit at decent rates anywhere in the court. He can also finish on the break and is improving. We talk about this being a big year for Shump, but this also a big year for Butler.

THJr's defense was so bad it totally negated his offense. And you're right, THJr shot decent not great are even good. His 3fg% was 36%; Shumpert, who everyone agrees was pretty terrible especially on offense, shot 33% on 3s.

BigDaddyG @ 7/22/2014 10:03 PM
VCoug wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
VCoug wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
VCoug wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
VCoug wrote:We don't have anywhere near the assets Chicago or Cleveland has for a Love trade. Jimmy Butler is a better asset and Taj Gibson is a far better player than anyone we could include in a Love trade. Wiggins is a FAR better asset than anything we could possible give up in a Love trade.

Also Love has a de facto no trade clause since he's expiring and whatever team trades for him would want/need him to agree to a contract extension; I'd put the odds at less than 10% that he would agree to a contract extension with us. So then, we'd have to agree to give up assets in the hope that he'll sign an extension in the offseason.

Don't agree about Butler, but a package of Gibson, Mirotic, McDermott and a first trumps anything we can offer. It would give Minnesota a known quantity at PF, a solid prospect at PF and a player to address their shooting problems. But I think we've seen all summer that a package of Butler, Gibson and a first isn't getting the bulls anywhere.

I think Butler's still considered a high-upside player around the league. Not as much as he was after 2012-13 but I think it's still there. He's still a better prospect than Shump, THJr, Larkin, or Early.


Really? I think THJ on his on wouldwould pull more than Butler. I think Butler and Shump's value are about the same, a low first round pick. Butler might be a lil higher than Shump.

I don't see it. Butler's shown flashes of being a good offensive player and already is a good defensive player. THJr shoots 36% from 3 and doesn't do anything else.

Butler's offense was so bad last season that it almost negated his defense. THJ came in and already proved he is an NBA caliber shooter who can hit at decent rates anywhere in the court. He can also finish on the break and is improving. We talk about this being a big year for Shump, but this also a big year for Butler.

THJr's defense was so bad it totally negated his offense. And you're right, THJr shot decent not great are even good. His 3fg% was 36%; Shumpert, who everyone agrees was pretty terrible especially on offense, shot 33% on 3s.


And Butler shot 28 percent. You can live 36 and 33 percent from three. You can't live a wing player who shoots less than 30 percent unless his name is Dwyanee Wade. I gotta add that 36 percent from three is really good for a took and you have to figure he will improve.
VCoug @ 7/22/2014 10:21 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
VCoug wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
VCoug wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
VCoug wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
VCoug wrote:We don't have anywhere near the assets Chicago or Cleveland has for a Love trade. Jimmy Butler is a better asset and Taj Gibson is a far better player than anyone we could include in a Love trade. Wiggins is a FAR better asset than anything we could possible give up in a Love trade.

Also Love has a de facto no trade clause since he's expiring and whatever team trades for him would want/need him to agree to a contract extension; I'd put the odds at less than 10% that he would agree to a contract extension with us. So then, we'd have to agree to give up assets in the hope that he'll sign an extension in the offseason.

Don't agree about Butler, but a package of Gibson, Mirotic, McDermott and a first trumps anything we can offer. It would give Minnesota a known quantity at PF, a solid prospect at PF and a player to address their shooting problems. But I think we've seen all summer that a package of Butler, Gibson and a first isn't getting the bulls anywhere.

I think Butler's still considered a high-upside player around the league. Not as much as he was after 2012-13 but I think it's still there. He's still a better prospect than Shump, THJr, Larkin, or Early.


Really? I think THJ on his on wouldwould pull more than Butler. I think Butler and Shump's value are about the same, a low first round pick. Butler might be a lil higher than Shump.

I don't see it. Butler's shown flashes of being a good offensive player and already is a good defensive player. THJr shoots 36% from 3 and doesn't do anything else.

Butler's offense was so bad last season that it almost negated his defense. THJ came in and already proved he is an NBA caliber shooter who can hit at decent rates anywhere in the court. He can also finish on the break and is improving. We talk about this being a big year for Shump, but this also a big year for Butler.

THJr's defense was so bad it totally negated his offense. And you're right, THJr shot decent not great are even good. His 3fg% was 36%; Shumpert, who everyone agrees was pretty terrible especially on offense, shot 33% on 3s.


And Butler shot 28 percent. You can live 36 and 33 percent from three. You can't live a wing player who shoots less than 30 percent unless his name is Dwyanee Wade. I gotta add that 36 percent from three is really good for a took and you have to figure he will improve.

But he didn't improve in three years in college, if anything he seemed to get worse every year. And two years ago Butler shot 38% from 3.

BigDaddyG @ 7/22/2014 10:50 PM
VCoug wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
VCoug wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
VCoug wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
VCoug wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
VCoug wrote:We don't have anywhere near the assets Chicago or Cleveland has for a Love trade. Jimmy Butler is a better asset and Taj Gibson is a far better player than anyone we could include in a Love trade. Wiggins is a FAR better asset than anything we could possible give up in a Love trade.

Also Love has a de facto no trade clause since he's expiring and whatever team trades for him would want/need him to agree to a contract extension; I'd put the odds at less than 10% that he would agree to a contract extension with us. So then, we'd have to agree to give up assets in the hope that he'll sign an extension in the offseason.

Don't agree about Butler, but a package of Gibson, Mirotic, McDermott and a first trumps anything we can offer. It would give Minnesota a known quantity at PF, a solid prospect at PF and a player to address their shooting problems. But I think we've seen all summer that a package of Butler, Gibson and a first isn't getting the bulls anywhere.

I think Butler's still considered a high-upside player around the league. Not as much as he was after 2012-13 but I think it's still there. He's still a better prospect than Shump, THJr, Larkin, or Early.


Really? I think THJ on his on wouldwould pull more than Butler. I think Butler and Shump's value are about the same, a low first round pick. Butler might be a lil higher than Shump.

I don't see it. Butler's shown flashes of being a good offensive player and already is a good defensive player. THJr shoots 36% from 3 and doesn't do anything else.

Butler's offense was so bad last season that it almost negated his defense. THJ came in and already proved he is an NBA caliber shooter who can hit at decent rates anywhere in the court. He can also finish on the break and is improving. We talk about this being a big year for Shump, but this also a big year for Butler.

THJr's defense was so bad it totally negated his offense. And you're right, THJr shot decent not great are even good. His 3fg% was 36%; Shumpert, who everyone agrees was pretty terrible especially on offense, shot 33% on 3s.


And Butler shot 28 percent. You can live 36 and 33 percent from three. You can't live a wing player who shoots less than 30 percent unless his name is Dwyanee Wade. I gotta add that 36 percent from three is really good for a took and you have to figure he will improve.

But he didn't improve in three years in college, if anything he seemed to get worse every year. And two years ago Butler shot 38% from 3.


I wouldn't say THJ didn't improve in college. He had a down sophomore year and rebounded his junior year. IPlus, he already has shown improvement in summer league. Butler shot 38 % one year, but in limited attempts. THJ almost shot 4X as many threes in his rookie year and shot nearly the same percentage. Plus, Butler is up for a new deal after this year, so he won't be cheap for much longer.
Jmpasq @ 7/22/2014 11:55 PM
babyKnicks wrote:Bargs + shump + 2015 #1 + another yute (Tyler?) and maybe another yute?

LOL, If you were the Twolves would you do this deal, nevermind that the Knicks can't trade their 2015 pick. Here have a negative +/- player trending downward for 3 seasons and is a FA, Shumpert who has been trending downward and is a RFA, we will say a 2018 pick, and Jeremy Tylier who is a bad basketball player no matter how good he is physically.

There is no possible deal the Knicks could offer to get this done. They would need to give up min 2018,2020 Hardaway, 2 of these 3 GreekFreek2, Larkin,Early , Dalembert and even then id rather have Klay Thompson and David Lee

dk7th @ 7/23/2014 12:10 AM
BigDaddyG wrote:
VCoug wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
VCoug wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
VCoug wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
VCoug wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
VCoug wrote:We don't have anywhere near the assets Chicago or Cleveland has for a Love trade. Jimmy Butler is a better asset and Taj Gibson is a far better player than anyone we could include in a Love trade. Wiggins is a FAR better asset than anything we could possible give up in a Love trade.

Also Love has a de facto no trade clause since he's expiring and whatever team trades for him would want/need him to agree to a contract extension; I'd put the odds at less than 10% that he would agree to a contract extension with us. So then, we'd have to agree to give up assets in the hope that he'll sign an extension in the offseason.

Don't agree about Butler, but a package of Gibson, Mirotic, McDermott and a first trumps anything we can offer. It would give Minnesota a known quantity at PF, a solid prospect at PF and a player to address their shooting problems. But I think we've seen all summer that a package of Butler, Gibson and a first isn't getting the bulls anywhere.

I think Butler's still considered a high-upside player around the league. Not as much as he was after 2012-13 but I think it's still there. He's still a better prospect than Shump, THJr, Larkin, or Early.


Really? I think THJ on his on wouldwould pull more than Butler. I think Butler and Shump's value are about the same, a low first round pick. Butler might be a lil higher than Shump.

I don't see it. Butler's shown flashes of being a good offensive player and already is a good defensive player. THJr shoots 36% from 3 and doesn't do anything else.

Butler's offense was so bad last season that it almost negated his defense. THJ came in and already proved he is an NBA caliber shooter who can hit at decent rates anywhere in the court. He can also finish on the break and is improving. We talk about this being a big year for Shump, but this also a big year for Butler.

THJr's defense was so bad it totally negated his offense. And you're right, THJr shot decent not great are even good. His 3fg% was 36%; Shumpert, who everyone agrees was pretty terrible especially on offense, shot 33% on 3s.


And Butler shot 28 percent. You can live 36 and 33 percent from three. You can't live a wing player who shoots less than 30 percent unless his name is Dwyanee Wade. I gotta add that 36 percent from three is really good for a took and you have to figure he will improve.

But he didn't improve in three years in college, if anything he seemed to get worse every year. And two years ago Butler shot 38% from 3.


I wouldn't say THJ didn't improve in college. He had a down sophomore year and rebounded his junior year. IPlus, he already has shown improvement in summer league. Butler shot 38 % one year, but in limited attempts. THJ almost shot 4X as many threes in his rookie year and shot nearly the same percentage. Plus, Butler is up for a new deal after this year, so he won't be cheap for much longer.

we may be seeing another jamal crawford... hardaway is tradable for an advanced stat player, ie a ball sharer and defender.

gunsnewing @ 7/23/2014 12:00 PM
dk7th wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
VCoug wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
VCoug wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
VCoug wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
VCoug wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
VCoug wrote:We don't have anywhere near the assets Chicago or Cleveland has for a Love trade. Jimmy Butler is a better asset and Taj Gibson is a far better player than anyone we could include in a Love trade. Wiggins is a FAR better asset than anything we could possible give up in a Love trade.

Also Love has a de facto no trade clause since he's expiring and whatever team trades for him would want/need him to agree to a contract extension; I'd put the odds at less than 10% that he would agree to a contract extension with us. So then, we'd have to agree to give up assets in the hope that he'll sign an extension in the offseason.

Don't agree about Butler, but a package of Gibson, Mirotic, McDermott and a first trumps anything we can offer. It would give Minnesota a known quantity at PF, a solid prospect at PF and a player to address their shooting problems. But I think we've seen all summer that a package of Butler, Gibson and a first isn't getting the bulls anywhere.

I think Butler's still considered a high-upside player around the league. Not as much as he was after 2012-13 but I think it's still there. He's still a better prospect than Shump, THJr, Larkin, or Early.


Really? I think THJ on his on wouldwould pull more than Butler. I think Butler and Shump's value are about the same, a low first round pick. Butler might be a lil higher than Shump.

I don't see it. Butler's shown flashes of being a good offensive player and already is a good defensive player. THJr shoots 36% from 3 and doesn't do anything else.

Butler's offense was so bad last season that it almost negated his defense. THJ came in and already proved he is an NBA caliber shooter who can hit at decent rates anywhere in the court. He can also finish on the break and is improving. We talk about this being a big year for Shump, but this also a big year for Butler.

THJr's defense was so bad it totally negated his offense. And you're right, THJr shot decent not great are even good. His 3fg% was 36%; Shumpert, who everyone agrees was pretty terrible especially on offense, shot 33% on 3s.


And Butler shot 28 percent. You can live 36 and 33 percent from three. You can't live a wing player who shoots less than 30 percent unless his name is Dwyanee Wade. I gotta add that 36 percent from three is really good for a took and you have to figure he will improve.

But he didn't improve in three years in college, if anything he seemed to get worse every year. And two years ago Butler shot 38% from 3.


I wouldn't say THJ didn't improve in college. He had a down sophomore year and rebounded his junior year. IPlus, he already has shown improvement in summer league. Butler shot 38 % one year, but in limited attempts. THJ almost shot 4X as many threes in his rookie year and shot nearly the same percentage. Plus, Butler is up for a new deal after this year, so he won't be cheap for much longer.

we may be seeing another jamal crawford... hardaway is tradable for an advanced stat player, ie a ball sharer and defender.

Shandon Anderson?

yellowboy90 @ 7/23/2014 12:13 PM
VCoug @ 7/23/2014 12:17 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:

Yeah, that blows any and all offers we couple possibly make out of the water.

H1AND1 @ 7/23/2014 12:23 PM
VCoug wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:

Yeah, that blows any and all offers we couple possibly make out of the water.

Shump and Bargs!!!! Come on!!!

In all seriousness if Im the Wolves I may even like this offer better than the Cavs' (Wiggins, Bennett and a high 20's 1st)...

yellowboy90 @ 7/23/2014 12:24 PM
VCoug wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:

Yeah, that blows any and all offers we couple possibly make out of the water.


That could potentially blow Clevland out the way. If I was Minny I would want a cherry on top(1st rd pick). Taj Gibson is a good player but is not made for a team that's rebuilding because of his age and he is more a role player. I would probably use Gibson to get Martin's contract off the books and pick up some young talent/picks. If that happen I would probably consider that Martin/Gibson trade for the knicks but that would seriously affect the summer of 15. They could still make moves but it takes away the max without S&T.

Another problem is that the knicks do not have the assets to probably get Martin or Gibson is my made up scenario of boredom.

BRIGGS @ 7/23/2014 12:26 PM
VCoug wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:

Yeah, that blows any and all offers we couple possibly make out of the water.

This will keep pushing the price up for the Cavs. Id have to believe the Cav want Wiggins. That offer from the Bulls is highly tempting however--Id have to think hard about that one. Ill be honest Id trade Carmelo for that package

babyKnicks @ 7/23/2014 12:30 PM
i haven't even heard of any of those players but Taj Gibson.

Who are the other two and what is their actual value?

Rookie @ 7/23/2014 12:35 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
VCoug wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:

Yeah, that blows any and all offers we couple possibly make out of the water.

This will keep pushing the price up for the Cavs. Id have to believe the Cav want Wiggins. That offer from the Bulls is highly tempting however--Id have to think hard about that one. Ill be honest Id trade Carmelo for that package

That's more then they were willing to give for Melo. I'm calling BS on this rumor.

gunsnewing @ 7/23/2014 12:52 PM
VCoug wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:

Yeah, that blows any and all offers we couple possibly make out of the water.

Yup even if we were to add Melo

Bonn1997 @ 7/23/2014 1:07 PM
Rookie wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
VCoug wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:

Yeah, that blows any and all offers we couple possibly make out of the water.

This will keep pushing the price up for the Cavs. Id have to believe the Cav want Wiggins. That offer from the Bulls is highly tempting however--Id have to think hard about that one. Ill be honest Id trade Carmelo for that package

That's more then they were willing to give for Melo. I'm calling BS on this rumor.

Your 2nd sentence doesn't follow from the 1st one

VCoug @ 7/23/2014 1:08 PM
babyKnicks wrote:i haven't even heard of any of those players but Taj Gibson.

Who are the other two and what is their actual value?

McDermott is the guy they traded up to draft; he's supposed to be a good scorer but we won't actually know until he plays in a real NBA game. Mirotic is a very highly rated Euro prospect. They drafted him a few years ago and he's supposed to be the best player in Europe right now and he's only 23. He's supposed to be a much better version of Toni Kukoc. When we were all discussing potential Melo S&T with Chicago Mirotic was usually considered the prize that we needed to get out of them.

F500ONE @ 7/23/2014 1:33 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
VCoug wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:

Yeah, that blows any and all offers we couple possibly make out of the water.

This will keep pushing the price up for the Cavs. Id have to believe the Cav want Wiggins. That offer from the Bulls is highly tempting however--Id have to think hard about that one. Ill be honest Id trade Carmelo for that package

Phil not exercising due diligence with Chicago to see what their S&T package presented, may have been his biggest mistake this summer.

The rumor sounds shaky

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